Is a 41 y.o. man who gets an 18 y.o. woman a "master manipulator"?

[Jaylan]

Texting when she was 14 doesn't prove anything. Hell when i wasin High School we had our teacher's contact info in case we had to get in touch with them. It didn't mean anything was happening.

Compare this to a 16 year old kid who gets signed on by a recruiter to join the military, with a direct effect of endangering the kid's life when they are 18.

Do we consider that predatory?

Riiiight We are just supposed to believe nothing was going on when her peers even said they noticed things and called their relationship gross. Ok, whatever you say.

Teachers should not be sending over 8000 text messages to one student.

And yes, I do think its predatory for the military machine to target kids for enlistment. Either way they cannot enlist till they are 18 (legal adults), but can enlist at 17 with parental consent. So get your facts straight.

 

[Jaylan]

Well, that was the point davewe was making. It seems to be more about the guy being 41 than any desire to really protect her as a "child". If he was 19, no one would care. Unless the mother started screaming to the media, as was the case with this guy.

Of course a big part of this is about age. A kid doing something with another kid is seen as ok because they are PEERS. This guy is not her peer. He is an authority figure who misused his power and seems to be capitalizing on the naivety of a dumb teenage kid hes known since freshman year.

You are acting as if age shouldnt matter. Two 13 year olds hook up, and thats fine because they are both kids going to the motions in growing up. But if one of them starts making out with a 30 year old, then of course its a problem. The teacher and students age will matter in these cases. Doesnt matter if the teacher is male or female.

The Elvis story is very comparable. In fact, it sounds like what Elvis did was "worse", since there was clear intent to marry the 14 year old Priscilla as soon as he met her. But instead of texting he was calling her. True, Elvis was not her teacher, but he was a rock star. Which probably gave him more influence over her than being a teacher would lol. But I don't hear people saying what a creep Elvis was.

By the way, I wouldn't say I'm defending him. I already said he sounded like a creep, and I agree he's AFC. But I'm not shocked or outraged. I may be wrong, but it may be because this sort of thing was a lot more common back when I was growing up.

The other reason I'm not outraged is like davewe said, the definition of a child is very arbitrary. It depends completely on when and where you live. Half the women in India get married before 18, that's a whole lot of people right there. But I'm supposed to get angry about this one guy, who supposedly waited until the girl was of legal age to hook up with her?

Again, stop using different time periods to stick up for this guy. Back in the day a lot of things were seen as ok...but that doesnt mean they were necessarily right. I personally think Elvis was a creeper for sniffing around a 14 year old when he was a 24 year old man who could have gotten a lot of nice fully developed women.

Pretty good point. Of course it's male lives being endangered, so again, nobody cares.

Only male lives endangered? I love how people keep ignoring the fact that he bailed on a wife and kids. So the males life isnt the only one who will be negatively impacted. Im really wondering how his daughter will turn out. Think about the affects this can have on a 16 or 17 year old kid.

 

[Jaylan]

Probably just as sh!tty as the 18 year old slvt that ran off with her teacher. Does anyone thing for a moment that the girl's actions are anything more than a manifestation of mental illness?

Ten bucks says this chick runs Hooker for a loop and then everyone here will say shes BPD lol

 

[AlNess]

What's offfensive to some is that the guy is 41, not 23. Everything else is a smokescreen; whether he texted her prior to her turning 18; whether he was her teacher; whether he's an Alpha or Beta - all irrelevant.

Feminists and the religious/morality police have dictated that a 41 shouldn't be doing an 18 year old and they're not gonna let anything as arbitrary as the legal age of consent get in their way.

No doubt that legally the guy is toast. They're gonna take those texts and hang him, whether he waited till 18 to do her or not. I still maintain that his biggest crime is that he went public.

What should be offensive to all is that this guy began marking his territory with this girl when he was 37 and she was 14. But instead, when that is brought up, some people here try to deflect that by citing things like the Bible and Elvis wanting to marry Priscilla when she was 14. Then the strawman argument bleeds into the issue of cultural relativity. "Society accepted it at one time, but not anymore...so it's only not ok now because lawmakers decided it so....but male biology predates all of these modern laws, etc..." That line of defense is not unparallel to when actual pedophiles cite miscegenation laws that were in place until 1967 or so, and how interracial marriage is perfectly legal today. "If that was considered 'deviance' back then but no longer is, then it's only a matter of time before society accepts romantic relationships between adult and child."

And if any of the texts he sent this girl when she was 14-15 could in fact hang him, then by all means, they should. I don't have a reason to doubt he was fantasizing about this girl when was 14-15, and perhaps even got as far as letting some sexually suggestive statements "slip" right before he quickly bit his tongue.

 

[Down Low]

We already answered that: the appearance of breasts indicates receptivity.

Like I said, if you study up on Middle Eastern cultures, you'll understand that Western Civilization effectively discourages barbaric excess. If you can't step back and get a sense of proportion, keep b1tching like a dried-up 30s divorcee.

 

[C-quenced]

That line of defense is not unparallel to when actual pedophiles cite miscegenation laws that were in place until 1967 or so, and how interracial marriage is perfectly legal today.

You're entitled to your OPINION but do realize that this in itself is a classical example of a straw man argument.

The line of thinking amongst many in this place falls along the same path of knuckle headed, self righteous, power hungry, arrogant Christians that set back the progression of science and technology by approximately 1000 years. Grow the **** up already.

 

[zekko]

You are acting as if age shouldnt matter. Two 13 year olds hook up, and thats fine because they are both kids going to the motions in growing up. But if one of them starts making out with a 30 year old, then of course its a problem.

Now you're talking about 13 year olds.
I don't care if a frigging 60 year old guy has sex with an 18 year old, she's legal. This couple claims they didn't have sex until she was 18, and at this point, that hasn't been proven otherwise. If two people talk when the girl is younger, and a mutual attraction develops, that is not an unusual occurrence. At least this guy waited until she was legal.

Again, stop using different time periods to stick up for this guy.

I wasn't talking about different time periods, I was talking about present day India. Half the women marry before age 18. That's over half a billion people!
The age of consent is 18, but apparently the parents are okay with the girls marrying earlier. A lot of arranged marriages there, you know. It's all about what culture you live in.

That line of defense is not unparallel to when actual pedophiles cite miscegenation laws that were in place until 1967

Irrelevant. If child molesters argued that 2+2=4, that wouldn't make the equation false.

And if any of the texts he sent this girl when she was 14-15 could in fact hang him, then by all means, they should. I don't have a reason to doubt he was fantasizing about this girl when was 14-15, and perhaps even got as far as letting some sexually suggestive statements "slip" right before he quickly bit his tongue.

If this guy should be hung Elvis should have been hung. Was Priscilla damaged by her relationship with Elvis, or did her life benefit?
Also, you can't legislate what someone fantasizes about. And we don't know what was being texted.

I agree in our culture an older guy texting a 14 year old girl sounds a little squicky. But is it illegal? Should young girls be allowed to have any contact at all with older men? Should they even talk to them? Should they be wrapped in veils and burkas until society deems them ready to communicate?

We already answered that: the appearance of breasts indicates receptivity.

If we go purely by logic and forget the knee jerk emotional reactions, nature would seem to indicate that girls are ready for sex when they develop their secondary sex characteristics. Perhaps people should be mad at God or nature for making this "mistake". Maybe we should inject girls with hormone inhibiters until they are 16, or 18, or 21, or whenever the guys on the forum think is appropriate.

By 14, most girls have reached this stage of development. When cultures add one, two, or four years before they declare them ready to breed, this is merely social conditioning - the dreaded "matrix" you guys are so fond of talking about.

Now I'm not recommending guys go have sex with 14 year olds. But I see no moral imperative here, it's all relative to the culture you live in.

 

[5string]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Lee_Lewis

Good Golly Miss Molly! Read this^^^^^especially the section on being married to a minor.

 

[Burroughs]

I believe Dave Chappelle has the most incisive analysis of this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75XKGVwGEt4

 

[AlNess]

Mother nature "grooms" us for sex. Selection takes care of the "who" part.

What do some of you guys thinks boobs, hips, and menstruation are for?

So is that to support the saying "old enough to bleed, old enough to breed?"

You honestly see nothing wrong with a 37-year-old married father starting an (allegedly) hands-off romantic relationship with a 14-15 year old girl? Nevermind that he's a teacher and in a position of authority that he's not to abuse.

When you jacked off at 13 thinking about Cindy Crawford, did you resent her for "grooming" you for sex?

Here's the distinction: when I was 13, there was no 36-year-old woman starting a romantic relationship with me. THAT would be grooming me for sex.

I really am impressed and saddened by the influence of Hyper-Feminism in this country when adult men would consider texting "predatory" (unless actual intent were proved).

There is just no reason for a 37-year-old man to be texting a 14-year-old. None whatsoever. Not to mention the man was a teacher...

 

[AlNess]

Irrelevant. If child molesters argued that 2+2=4, that wouldn't make the equation false.

The point you're missing is that child molestors cite old laws against interracial dating (and the striking down thereof) as a way of justifying their own deviance. "It was seen as wrong then, but it's socially acceptable now....so perhaps one day they'll find what I'm into to be acceptable, too." Some people here are citing previous social acceptance of grown man/young teen girl relationships in America to make a case for a middle-aged man sparking up a relationship with a 15-year old in this day and age. I find this disturbing.

Just as disturbing is seeing people mention how the onset of boobs and hips indicates sexual readiness. Do some of those guys check out 12- and 13-year olds who developed early?? Is doing so "alpha" and just "being a guy who celebrates his biological impulse?"

 

[TonyBaloney]

The truth is he did abuse his position of power, and that the girl was below consent when he probably first sniffed her out is plain wrong.

BUT, if he were a DJ in soul, and he had met her @ 18 on the street, park whatever, then he should be congratulated, and this moronic feminazi balderdash should be disregarded for what it is - Old dryed up *****es complaining about us guys having the evolutionary advantage of attracting young *****es

 

[Down Low]

Some people here are citing previous social acceptance of grown man/young teen girl relationships in America to make a case for a middle-aged man sparking up a relationship with a 15-year old in this day and age. I find this disturbing.

Just as disturbing is seeing people mention how the onset of boobs and hips indicates sexual readiness. Do some of those guys check out 12- and 13-year olds who developed early?? Is doing so "alpha" and just "being a guy who celebrates his biological impulse?"

YOU checked out 12- and 13-year-olds who developed early when you were 12 and 13.

YOU said to yourself "nice ass" when you drove by the junior high school yesterday and saw an early-developed 12-year-old.

YOU are biologically programmed to do this. So is every other man. It is normal.

If instead, you say "...eww...gross..." when you see these young women -- well you're just a sicko and a pervert -- and you have no right to advise normal men on how to think.


. . . . . THANK HEAVEN FOR LITTLE GIRLS . . . . .

 

[Jaylan]

^Finding ones peers attractive is entirely different.

10 year old boys find 10 year old girls pretty and thus these little kids kiss at times. No big deal. For a teenager or adult to do so would be ENTIRELY different.

So your reasoning is flawed. Adults and young teens are not peers. So you cannot compare a 12/13 year old finding a peer attractive to an adult finding someone that age attractive. Teens that age are hardly developed. And in the case of Mr Hooker, you wanna tell me this girl was womanly at 14?

 

[HoneyHitter]

^Finding ones peers attractive is entirely different.

10 year old boys find 10 year old girls pretty and thus these little kids kiss at times. No big deal. For a teenager or adult to do so would be ENTIRELY different.

Are you kidding me? When I was 10 my attention was FIXED on those 14-16 y/o girls! I didn't care about ten y/o girls. I could hardly wait to "grow up"!

 

[AlNess]

YOU checked out 12- and 13-year-olds who developed early when you were 12 and 13.

Sure...when I was 12 and 13.

YOU said to yourself "nice ass" when you drove by the junior high school yesterday and saw an early-developed 12-year-old.

Actually, I didn't; and this is someone who has picked up his wife -- a junior high school teacher -- at work many times. But now since you've mentioned it, and since you're convinced that every man does what you've just accused me of doing, then is that to say that YOU, at age 52, find yourself checking out and enjoying the sight of 12-year-olds who show signs of early physical development?

YOU are biologically programmed to do this. So is every other man. It is normal.

NAMBLA supporters say the same thing in an attempt to normalize THEIR deviance, too.

If instead, you say "...eww...gross..." when you see these young women -- well you're just a sicko and a pervert -- and you have no right to advise normal men on how to think.

Riiiight....because every "normal" man gets sexually aroused by the sight and thought of 12-year-old girls who show early physical development, right? So have you ever caught yourself checking out a friend's 12- or 13-year-old daughter? Would you nudge that buddy of yours while cruising and say "Look at the rack on THAT one?"

. . . . . THANK HEAVEN FOR LITTLE GIRLS . . . . .

I think THAT answers my last 2 questions up there perfectly.

 

[disgustipated]

I'm not sure where I stand on this. Where's the line where's it's okay?

Last weekend I felt all weird...hanging at a buddies when this 20 yo is feeling me, I'm 37. I lay down with her, grinding and **** and find out she's a virgin. I start tripping out because of her age but that the guys are all like dude, she's college age and what do college girls do? ****.

My niece is 17 and I would have serious, serious problems with anyone over 25 ish having anything to do with her in that way. But on the other side, I've seen 14 yo's with the bodies of 30 yo's olds as long ago as 1988...no exaggeration. Today is even worse. The difference between me and this guys (I hope) is I'll notice the body of a younger girl and be like damn! Obvisously an attractive sight, a nice body is a nice body period. But immdiately is followed up with the thought of "but she's too young". This guy apparently doesn't have that governing thought, or his impulses overwrote it.

So 18 is bad but me with the 20 yo is okey dokey? I feel like a hypocrite if I were to say so, no? I know his case involves the grooming bit and especially the abuse of power which to me is the most important of all. We all put our kids/nieces/family in these people's hand and TRUST they won't do stuff like this. To me he forfeits any right to hold a position like this again because of this. I'm just mixed up on how I should feel about this as an older man that can hook up wth younger type females.

And I've been around men that will make comments about what they would do to a girl in the 14-16 year age range. That don't sit right me. Why is that? Is it just because it's against our man law or is there something deep seeded in me that knows this is wrong? I r confused.

 

[C-quenced]

I'm not sure where I stand on this. Where's the line where's it's okay?

That depends on what region of the world you happen to be in. In Sweden it's 15, in the UK it's 16, in Spain it's 13 and in the U.S. it depends on the state you happen to reside in, normally ranging anywhere from 16 - 18. For the most part I don't think society has much business trying to dictate what constitutes an adult as everyone reaches adulthood at different stages of their lives once puberty is reached. Relations between younger females and significantly older males have been happening since the beginning of time and it's not just going to stop simply because certain members of society are offended. I'm sure relations between older men and younger females happen a lot more often then we think but people tend to keep quiet about it. Remember it's women who decide on whether they'd like to establish a relationship and keep it going. Not men.

Before anyone attempts to throw any shaming tactics my way I'm ONLY referring to females of child bearing age.

My niece is 17 and I would have serious, serious problems with anyone over 25 ish having anything to do with her in that way.

17 is NOT a child. I don't mean to knock your post man but do you expect your niece to magically turn into an adult the night before her 18th birthday? What are you defending her from? Predatory males? You never know but she may even be more sexually experienced then 75% of males over the age of 25. It's a lot more common then you think.

When she does turn 18 and lets say she hooks up with a 35 year old do you still plan on being involved in her affairs? Or could it be that those with your train of thought are the ones with the serious, serious problems?

And I've been around men that will make comments about what they would do to a girl in the 14-16 year age range. That don't sit right me. Why is that? Is it just because it's against our man law or is there something deep seeded in me that knows this is wrong? I r confused.

Centuries of societies trying to preserve a woman's virginity, white knighting and giving the illusion that women are pure and can never do any wrong combined with 60 years of uber feminism and laws that work against human nature would condition you to think with your emotions and lacking any logic. Again I'm not trying to be obnoxious here so I apologize if I'm coming off that way.

 

[AlNess]

You can tell the level of White Knighthood by how much the woman's age is reduced. Eighteen has somehow been whittled down to 12 and even ten by some posters here. Pretty soon she'll be a fetus. Man is "predatory," woman was "groomed for sex." Torn straight from the current Feminist script.

But nothing rains on a Feminist parade like the cold shower of hard science.

Quit playing the heavily-exhausted feminism card, dude. It's not about "white knighthood" or feminist symphathies; not for me, anyway. My position on this topic primarily stems from my still-new experience of having a daughter. That has changed me in ways I never expected. When I was 22, admiring from afar the figure of a well-developed 16-year-old wouldn't have been farfetched for me, and I wouldn't have given much of a phukk about this topic. But when my daughter is 15, do you think I or any other father in a similar position would be able to just shrug off seeing a 55-year-old check his daughter out, non-chalantly chalking it up to "biological imperatives" and "alpha behavior?" Really, dude?? ANY dad in that position would want to curb-stomp the creep. Gimme a phukking break.

 

[Down Low]

I like your thinking C-quenced.

AIness, just because a man pays a compliment to a young woman does not imply anything else. You have a dirty mind.