Integrity

[iqqi]

I have always maintained that integrity and morality is personal, not social.

Just like a compass has its points, I think that morality has absolute rights and wrongs, and that is why they say someone's moral compass is on point or skewed.

Intregrity is strength to uphold morality. To know what is right, and to do it. Regardless of anyone else, seeing as other people do not influence real integrity.

That is why I have a problem with a man who knows what is right and wrong, and looks for a reason or justification to do wrong through other people's actions, or lack of integrity. It means they also lack integrity. Could be temporary lapse of judgement. Or their historic integrity could have all been a show.

 

[iqqi]

I also don't think a man of integrity is infallible when it comes to mistakes.

But the difference between a man with integrity and one without, is that the man with integrity will take responsibility for his mistakes and actions, while the man without integrity will excuse them away.

I just thought of someone I talked with recently who strikes me as someone with integrity. He told me he had stolen from his job in the very distant past, when he had to. His words were "Yes, I did it, and it was wrong, and I am not proud."

I didn't think any less of his character, (I am partial to thieves anyways), because he knew it was wrong, and not something to be proud of or to brag about. He didn't even need to confess to me. I can't remember why he did, it had something to do with honesty... which he valued.

As a matter of fact, the more I think about it, the more I see how this correlates to a certain poster here who's integrity is at question. Hmmm.

 

[Latinoman]

Dude, dude, dude, I friggin' love it...you're one to talk about "integrity". Did I not point you out last month in the thread about "living with parents" in which I demonstrated that you lacked integrity, to which you agreed and called yourself "low"? Please man, the last this board needs, is to have you lecture on what's right and what's wrong, because with you, what's "right" is "wrong" and what's "wrong" is "right". No need to corrupt the weak-minded on here. I only read the first 2 introductory paragraphs of your opening post in this thread, which doesn't specify what's right or wrong, so I'm not saying your post glistines with integrity or not(I can probably only imagine though), I'm just referring to a few of your past posts, which quite shamefully, lack integrity.

For you information...I have never said that I have Integrity. And I have never said that I lack Integrity.

This post is not about Latinoman. This post is about a very important quality in a man's character.


P.S. Quit whining, I still stand by the other thread in which I said that men over certain age living with their parents will have serious difficulties finding a quality woman...because a man living with his parents lacks INDEPENDENCE.

 

[Latinoman]

American society tries to preach to me that smoking marijuana is wrong, yet consuming alcohol is ok if you are over the age of 21. It's NOT RIGHT if you are 20 years and 364 days old, but it's fine as soon as you hit 21. Want to pay for a BJ? Not in America, but you can go to Amsterdam and smoke hash till you fall on the floor (I saw it happen) and fukk 10 different hookers in a single night, and REMARKABLY, the people who live there are kind, cultured, well spoken, and DO NOT run around practicing sexually deviant acts in the middle of the street, contrary to what most Americans probably think. So which society's morals and standards are "right"?

Be a sheep. Let society dictate the way you should live your life. Society has also manufactured a plethora of AFC's.

Yeeeeeaaaaaaa.....society is what I want to be following.

Between morals and ethics and integrity and any other word you can conjure up that tries to define, constrain, label, control, or whatever, ANYONE can be "good" and plenty of people can call them "bad" and not a goddamn one of them is right or wrong. This is what a few of us here understand and the rest are really struggling with.

If you have any issues with America's way of living...then sell your business and buy a one-way ticket to wherever. And while you are at it...renounce your citizenship too.

 

[Latinoman]

I know, we have the people, and no offense intended, who have the least integrity lecturing us the most about integrity and character. They wouldn't know integrity if they saw it. Latinoman says it's all right to do xyz, such as having mulitiple wives etc., as long as it's approved by society. Then he says he agrees with Jophil about how off the mark moral relativism is. What complete and under BS, contadictions and hypocrisy!

Maybe I'll go through the post later on but I'm thinking what's the point when someone's posts is a jumble of sound good but utterly incoherent contradictions.

In some places in Africa for CENTURIES has been alright to have several wives. There is nothing relative there as this has happened for Centuries. It is the SAME approach 200 hundred years ago...same approach 50 years ago...same approach 1 year ago...and will be the same approach next 100 years. Nothing relative there.

Jophil was talking about a person is OUR society trying to live a life of relativism going OUTSIDE the norms of OUR society to clearly justify her shoddy behavior.

Perhaps I should dumb-it-down the way I write that way the "deep thinkers" of the board don't drown in a sea of confusion.

 

[ZenGodMod]

in·teg·ri·ty?

in·teg·ri·ty
–noun
1. adherence to moral and ethical principles; soundness of moral character; honesty.

Sorted!
We all have our choices of our definition of what is in·teg·ri·ty.

Latinoman has his.
Iqqi has hers.
And the rest of us have our own.

Because integrity is upholding of principles .............. principles VARY in degrees!

 

[logic1]

I know, we have the people, and no offense intended, who have the least integrity lecturing us the most about integrity and character. They wouldn't know integrity if they saw it. Latinoman says it's all right to do xyz, such as having mulitiple wives etc., as long as it's approved by society. Then he says he agrees with Jophil about how off the mark moral relativism is. What complete and under BS, contadictions and hypocrisy!

Maybe I'll go through the post later on but I'm thinking what's the point when someone's posts is a jumble of sound good but utterly incoherent contradictions.

Anddddddddddddddddd.........we have people lecturing us how not to have integrity..........................Neat. 2 sides to every issue.

 

[Latinoman]

It's always going to be the folks who espouse ideals that are congruent with popular opinion who get the standing ovation, and the ones who uncover the unpleasant truth will always find their heads on the chopping block.

For the record...I live by my own moral standards, not society. The only thing I follow 100% is our laws as I am a law abiding citizen. I also follow 100% my professional code of ethics.

This thread is not about me. This thread is about character.

Me and you and a few others will never get the standing ovation because we are the messengers of the unpleasant truth.

"You and I". Not "Me and you".



Just don't waste your time bringing the message of unpleasant truth to a man that have LIVED the unpleasant truth of a War, racism, poverty, divorce, cheating, hurt, ignorance, sickness and death.

 

[STR8UP]

If you have any issues with America's way of living...then sell your business and buy a one-way ticket to wherever. And while you are at it...renounce your citizenship too.

America is puritanical wonderland full of hypocrites, AFC's, and feminazis. But I don't ever once remember saying that I "hate" America and want to leave. Actually, I think i would love to live in eastern Europe for awhile, but that is beside the point.

The point is, it doesn't matter WHERE I live, my moral judgments are MINE, not something that is dictated by my geographic location and peer group. INFLUENCED...yes. DICTATED....HELL NO.

And that's what you are saying here. You are saying that one must follow societal norms to have integrity.

BULLSHIZZLE

 

[Latinoman]

America is puritanical wonderland full of hypocrites, AFC's, and feminazis. But I don't ever once remember saying that I "hate" America and want to leave. Actually, I think i would love to live in eastern Europe for awhile, but that is beside the point.

The point is, it doesn't matter WHERE I live, my moral judgments are MINE, not something that is dictated by my geographic location and peer group. INFLUENCED...yes. DICTATED....HELL NO.

And that's what you are saying here. You are saying that one must follow societal norms to have integrity.

BULLSHIZZLE

That might explain why you went out last night and ask your friend (well, one of your female friends) if she approved of what you did.

 

[STR8UP]

Just don't waste your time bringing the message of unpleasant truth to a man that have LIVED the unpleasant truth of a War, racism, poverty, divorce, cheating, hurt, ignorance, sickness and death.

I grew up a poor farm boy from Illinois. I rode with my mom to pick up the food stamps and government cheese. Now I live on the 14th floor of a highrise in the most expensive part of town.

I barely graduated high school, yet I managed to score honors level on all of my college entrance exams. After one year of college I decided that formal education wasn't for me so i dropped out. I knew I was destined to live the life of an entrepreneur.

I have tried and "failed" at many things. I have LOST more money through theft, dishonesty, stupidity, and sheer bad luck than most people make in a lifetime. I have had a g/f hand me a FORGED cell phone bill with a straight face and swear she was telling me the truth about not talking to "that guy" anymore. I have had my best friend from high school whom I had known for 20+ years clean out my business bank account.

We can go toe to toe on this but this isn't a "whose smarter" or "who has been through more" pissing match. You tried to use your engineering education to back your weak ideas regarding morality and integrity and such, and I fired back.

Pretty simple and I'd love to discuss this more but I got sh!t to do. Have fun sparring with Keto.

 

[STR8UP]

That might explain why you went out last night and ask your friend (well, one of your female friends) if she approved of what you did.

Hellooooooo....McFly........

For the LAST TIME, I asked her OPINION, not her APPROVAL

 

[Latinoman]

I grew up a poor farm boy from Illinois. I rode with my mom to pick up the food stamps and government cheese. Now I live on the 14th floor of a highrise in the most expensive part of town.

I barely graduated high school, yet I managed to score honors level on all of my college entrance exams. After one year of college I decided that formal education wasn't for me so i dropped out. I knew I was destined to live the life of an entrepreneur.

I have tried and "failed" at many things. I have LOST more money through theft, dishonesty, stupidity, and sheer bad luck than most people make in a lifetime. I have had a g/f hand me a FORGED cell phone bill with a straight face and swear she was telling me the truth about not talking to "that guy" anymore. I have had my best friend from high school whom I had known for 20+ years clean out my business bank account.

We can go toe to toe on this but this isn't a "whose smarter" or "who has been through more" pissing match. You tried to use your engineering education to back your weak ideas regarding morality and integrity and such, and I fired back.

Pretty simple and I'd love to discuss this more but I got sh!t to do. Have fun sparring with Keto.

Here is a huge difference between you and I:

1- I have a positive outlook in life...yours is one that you call "pragmatic" but in reallity is very negative.

2- I take full accountability for my actions...you submerge in a sea of gray area.

3- I don't take things too serious...with the possible exceptions of the advice I give and my responsibilities as a man, professional and father. You seem to take critisism too serious to the point you get upset.

4- I understand the difference between social ethics, individual morals, integrity and character flaws...you don't. Now, I am not saying I abide by societal standards of ethics or anything like that...all I'm saying is that I understand what they are.

5- You blame your inability to find a good partner on women...I blame it to the type of people YOU choose to associate with.

6- You don't believe there are "quality women" out there. I know there are plenty of quality women out there.

7- You believe is wrong for a woman to cheat on her husband, but right for you to sleep with a married woman. I have more consistent thoughts.

We are very different.

 

[Warrior74]

You guys love arguing as much as women love gossip.

 

[Latinoman]

You guys love arguing as much as women love gossip.

He is a "deep thinker".

 

[ketostix]

That is why I have a problem with a man who knows what is right and wrong, and looks for a reason or justification to do wrong through other people's actions, or lack of integrity. It means they also lack integrity. Could be temporary lapse of judgement. Or their historic integrity could have all been a show.

This is where I disagree with a few others. They see gray areas as only justifications for something that is always wrong. But things aren't so simple and black and white. Looking at the gray areas can be a more in depth look into what is really the most eithical thing to do in a given situation.

 

[Latinoman]

Gray areas are justifications...for better and worst...they are designed to create a justification or leave the door open for 'interpretation' (justification) of a particular action.

 

[ketostix]

Gray areas are justifications...for better and worst...they are designed to create a justification or leave the door open for 'interpretation' (justification) of a particular action.

You don't seem to understand what the word justification means. Either something is justifiable or it's not. It's not exactly the same thing as an excuse. If you can't jusify what you do then you're unjustified in doing that. You seem to jusify everything you do based on a combination of society's ethics as you understand them and some mysterious and unjustified personal moral compass. I justify what I do based on a reasonable weighing of how my action will effect all parties involved-you can't do this without taking a reasonable in depth look in to the factors. And you want to call that gray areas.

 

[MacAvoy]

The only problem that I have with your post is you change the definition of words and try to impose it on everyone else. I have integrity and I'm viewed as a man with integrity by those around me. However I don't fall into your definition of integrity.

From Meriam Webster (probably the most respected dictionary)

Integrity: firm adherence to a code of especially moral or artistic values

I strictly adhere to my code of moral and artistic values.

 

[Latinoman]

You seem to jusify everything you do based on a combination of society's ethics as you understand them and some mysterious and unjustified personal moral compass.

I am not talking about MY actions. This is not about me.

In fact, I don't have to justify anything. I am always ACCOUNTABLE for everything I do.