If you aren't going forward, you are giong backwards

[jhl]

This woman is a receptionist. If she craves such a better life, why isn't she out starting a business or trying to better herself or turning herself into a CEO or whatever else is good enough? No, she expects a man to provide that lifestyle for her.

Now that's a man's traditional role, so there's nothing wrong with that on the face of it. But since women want to be treated as equals, shouldn't they hold themselves to the same standard they hold their men to? They want every advantage of being equal plus every advantage of tradition and chivalry, with none of the responsibility.

Of course, once the guy does get a better career and starts making a little more money, then PUAs will start calling him a beta provider type.

This woman is a receptionist. If she craves such a better life, why isn't she out starting a business or trying to better herself or turning herself into a CEO or whatever else is good enough? No, she expects a man to provide that lifestyle for her.

Now that's a man's traditional role, so there's nothing wrong with that on the face of it. But since women want to be treated as equals, shouldn't they hold themselves to the same standard they hold their men to? They want every advantage of being equal plus every advantage of tradition and chivalry, with none of the responsibility.

I completely missed this important factor that Zekko brought up. The woman is a receptionist. In the hierarchy of jobs for woman, that pretty much ranks at the bottom of a scale for someone who is moderately attractive.

Moderately attractive women can get so many perks in going through life and advancing in the corporate world. Obviously she is attractive enough for a guy with decent game and with a beamer to mess around with her so I'm assuming she's probably going to be at least a 6.5 on the looks scale. However, she must be quite incompetent or unambitious for her to have that job.

It's one thing if you are super ambitious and going to great places in life and then lose attraction b/c your companion is a lazy, unambitious man, but it's a whole different issue if she is in that category. It's just like a 400 pound man complaining about fat women. Please.

 

[iqqi]

I completely missed this important factor that Zekko brought up. The woman is a receptionist. In the hierarchy of jobs for woman, that pretty much ranks at the bottom of a scale for someone who is moderately attractive.

Moderately attractive women can get so many perks in going through life and advancing in the corporate world. Obviously she is attractive enough for a guy with decent game and with a beamer to mess around with her so I'm assuming she's probably going to be at least a 6.5 on the looks scale. However, she must be quite incompetent or unambitious for her to have that job.

It's one thing if you are super ambitious and going to great places in life and then lose attraction b/c your companion is a lazy, unambitious man, but it's a whole different issue if she is in that category. It's just like a 400 pound man complaining about fat women. Please.

Someone mentioned here that you can't be against feminism, and also expect women to compete with men when it comes to success.

If I were a man, I'd be much more interested in a woman who seemed moral and intelligent enough to take care of my home and children. Not on a maid level, but I wouldn't expect a CEO to leave her career to raise the kids, and that is what I would prefer.

I was raised in a single parent household, so my own views for myself as a woman differ a bit. I would need to feel I alone could provide well for myself and children if it came down to it. But objectively, I admit I do not hold women who plan to marry and have a family in the same expectations bracket as men.

As such I also admit that my expectations for men are higher than my expectations for women when it comes to ambition. I'm not saying I think women should not have goals and ambitions. If a woman decided that aiming for the top, or aiming for DR or Lawyer status, wasn't for her because she knew she was going to end up taking off years to raise children, I wouldn't fault her. I would think a woman pursuing some kind of goal and education was more attractive than a woman who was floundering around in an entry level job.

I'd be interested in what you men here honestly thought about that yourselves.

 

[jhl]

It is a very true statement, with exceptions, but that only serves to prove the rule.

Men are true to their word as women are true to their feelings.

It seems that irks you, I wonder why that is?




I know plenty of GORGEOUS secretaries. I think you may be mixing up what men and women consider attractive....

Ah let me clarify what I wrote. The point is that a "gorgeous secretary" with a lot of ambition and some brains could advance like a skyrocket in the right jobs in the corporate world. There is a reason why she is there as a secretary.

 

[Lexington]

Can we all agree on one thing here? Can we agree that the woman was a branch swinger?

We can argue about whether or not the guy was ambitious enough. Obviously he wasn't ambitious enough for his receptionist girlfriend. But if it was purely about his lack of ambition, why didn't she just leave him? She didn't do that. She waited until after she got with Mr. BMW. Would she still be with this guy if Mr. BMW didn't come along? I think so.

Whatever your thoughts on this guy's (lack of) ambition, the girl's behavior was textbook branch swinging. By all accounts, this guy was a decent human being. He was described as being quite personable and well-liked. Yet we're piling on him because his girlfriend cheated on him and left when a better deal came around!?

And no, I'm not whining about hypergamy here. It is what it is. But let's call a spade a spade: this is branch swinging in its purest form.

 

[zekko]

Another thing is apparently both of these people were 23 when they started dating. Really, how many couples who get together at 23 these days stay together forever? I don't think four years is that bad of a run, honestly. The guy couldn't have been a complete loser to keep her for four years.

In any case, you can't really blame the girl for leaving her boyfriend if she wanted something else. It's the way she went about it that's rubbed most of the posters the wrong way. That and characterizing the guy as a loser because he hasn't advanced up the corporate ladder by age 27. If BB wasn't a good gambler, where would he be?

 

[Atom Smasher]

I agree, Zekko. I believe that real adulthood doesn't happen until age 28 or so. You are still figuring out who you are throughout your twenties. Most of the time significant changes occur in one's perceptions in that time period. I observe that women especially are completely confused and insecure in their early to late twenties. They follow the herd with complete abandon until they develop a slight sense of individuality and start to lose their youthful self-consciousness as they approach 30. I'm convinced that in our culture, adulhood is delayed until age 28 or thereabouts. I attribute this to the infuence of the media and to the fact that we have no rite of passage in our cuture, a necessary thing for good mental health and effective living. In essence, a rite of passage confirms a necessary shift from irresponsible childhood to expectations of responsibility.

I also observe that when a woman is actually in love, money is not a hindrance. Lack of money may cause strife in a marriage, but for a woman, true love tends to cause her to turn a blind eye to a man's financial status. Money of course may be an initial attractant, but once a woman falls for a man in the truest sense, the way he makes her feel eclipses finances.

Unfortunately, today love has become an assessment of "What's in it for me?" in the material sense and also in other less tangible senses.

For far too many young women, men are reduced to wooden ladder rungs.

 

[typical]

I have to severely disagree on the money issue, especially in this day and age. Remember we are currently living in a "keeping up with the jones'" society.

Nearly every single woman I've interacted with has shown hints of being able to trade up at a moments notice, most of the times its just me eavesdropping in on a few ladies having a casual chat about their lives which is always about who is screwing who and how much he makes and how good he looks. Many many times I've heard ladies say that if their man doesn't get a new job or pay raise they will start to look elsewhere for a "better man" aka richer and able to provide me a better lifestyle then the one I currently have.

Bottom line is HYPERGAMY DOES NOT CARE, no matter what you or I say or do Hypergamy does not care. If you are not the sh!t in her eyes at that particular moment then you are in deep sh!t.

Now I'm not saying there are no good women left, heck if you just want a quick fling or a fu(k buddy there are plenty but for a real relationship you are going to have to weed through a tonne of women to get a semi decent one.

That's why this forum and forums and blogs like rationalmale exist they teach men the tools to be able to approach date and reject women that don't fit into the mans lifestyle. Its that simple there is enough information here to cover all your basics and then some.

Some of the basic principles here are "Spin plates" and to keep your finances spread out so just in case you do get tied down to a lady and she fu(ks you over in the short or long run you have a secret stash set up (legally or illegally to save your bacon).

So you can all sit here and argue over things or accept them for the way they are and do your best to come out on top.

 

[Warrior74]

I have to severely disagree on the money issue, especially in this day and age. Remember we are currently living in a "keeping up with the jones'" society.

Are we? From where I stand we live in a trying to keep the shirt on your back society. The rich are getting exponentially richer an the poor are getting poorer. At least in the Western world. Only idiots and rich people are still trying to keep up with the joneses anymore.

 

[Findog]

Are we? From where I stand we live in a trying to keep the shirt on your back society. The rich are getting exponentially richer an the poor are getting poorer. At least in the Western world. Only idiots and rich people are still trying to keep up with the joneses anymore.

Yeah, I concur. The restaurant manager had a good job in one of the states hit worst by the financial crisis. That makes him a winner in my eyes.

 

[Findog]

If BB wasn't a good gambler, where would he be?

Scamming even more people out of web-design fees?

 

[ebracer05]

I also observe that when a woman is actually in love, money is not a hindrance.

This is absolutely true. I don't see any correlation with my success with women and my financial position. And besides, all of the DJ principles on this website would be invalidated if money was a requisite for a woman's love and/or attraction. Money is something that transcends a person. Confidence is something that is inherent to the person. Women tend to be attracted to a man's inherent qualities.

-Caveat - a man with several good inherent qualities will probably make a good wage.

 

[cordoncordon]

This is absolutely true. I don't see any correlation with my success with women and my financial position. And besides, all of the DJ principles on this website would be invalidated if money was a requisite for a woman's love and/or attraction. Money is something that transcends a person. Confidence is something that is inherent to the person. Women tend to be attracted to a man's inherent qualities.

-Caveat - a man with several good inherent qualities will probably make a good wage.

Exactly.

It is really sad that some people, especially women like iqqi, think that true love still boils down to how big a paycheck is, or at least plays a big part in it. Yeah, I could see if your bf was a deadbeat and refused to even look for a job. But if he makes an honest living and does what he loves doing-as the guy in the OP seems to do, a girl truly in love with a man would not care one iota what the guy makes. Sad commentary on the world today.

 

[cordoncordon]

Scamming even more people out of web-design fees?

What I find bad about that entire thing with BB is he came across here as so above board and honorable, to the point where he left this thread and board because he thought men were too lackadaisical and pvssified, when it turns out he has all that kind of stuff going on with his business.

Like I said earlier, don't believe everything you read on the internet. Many people who are losers IRL tend to embellish or outright lie in order to give their life some sort of purpose.

 

[cordoncordon]

Tell me pro "its ok to go on to the next best thing and walk all over others" people, was it fine for Kristin Stewart to cheat on twilight boy with a guy twice her age because he was a director and has more pull in the industry as far as getting her future roles? Because according to your line of thinking, that is all she was doing so that makes it perfectly ok right? I mean Robert Patterson? All he ever wanted to do was act, what kind of lowlife job is that? This older guy wanted to direct films!!!

Obviously I am being sarcastic, to a degree. But the point still holds as far as the op. Especially when I read this girl is just a receptionist. It's not like she is an attorney or a Doctor. She is a secretary.

 

[pdx1138]

Many many times I've heard ladies say that if their man doesn't get a new job or pay raise they will start to look elsewhere for a "better man" aka richer and able to provide me a better lifestyle then the one I currently have.

I've been on the receiving end of that myself. Many of us have.

 

[jhl]

Someone mentioned here that you can't be against feminism, and also expect women to compete with men when it comes to success.

If I were a man, I'd be much more interested in a woman who seemed moral and intelligent enough to take care of my home and children. Not on a maid level, but I wouldn't expect a CEO to leave her career to raise the kids, and that is what I would prefer.

I was raised in a single parent household, so my own views for myself as a woman differ a bit. I would need to feel I alone could provide well for myself and children if it came down to it. But objectively, I admit I do not hold women who plan to marry and have a family in the same expectations bracket as men.

As such I also admit that my expectations for men are higher than my expectations for women when it comes to ambition. I'm not saying I think women should not have goals and ambitions. If a woman decided that aiming for the top, or aiming for DR or Lawyer status, wasn't for her because she knew she was going to end up taking off years to raise children, I wouldn't fault her. I would think a woman pursuing some kind of goal and education was more attractive than a woman who was floundering around in an entry level job.

I'd be interested in what you men here honestly thought about that yourselves.

I see your point, but all this doesn't apply to the woman in the original post.

If you're trying to defend that girl based on what you just wrote, I find it highly amusing that you are categorizing the man as a loser for not being ambitious, while giving every benefit of the doubt and a free pass to this woman when it seems very clear that this woman is just as, if not LESS motivated and ambitious than the guy.

For crying out loud, if she scored the national average on the SAT she'd probably have a better job than what she has now. For her to have the right to trade up at will while putting in a lackadaisical effort (and I mean on the bum level here) on her career is just sickening. She's just looking for a free pass in life.

 

[Die Hard]

And she GOT that free pass!! How unfair, whine, whine... This woman is scum, whine, whine... I am so frustrated, whine, whine...

So what are you gonna do about it? (apart from whining along with the other whiners @ SoSuave...)

 

[betheman]

And she GOT that free pass!! How unfair, whine, whine... This woman is scum, whine, whine... I am so frustrated, whine, whine...

So what are you gonna do about it? (apart from whining along with the other whiners @ SoSuave...)

you seem to spend a lot of posts whining about guys whining?

 

[jhl]

And she GOT that free pass!! How unfair, whine, whine... This woman is scum, whine, whine... I am so frustrated, whine, whine...

So what are you gonna do about it? (apart from whining along with the other whiners @ SoSuave...)

Arguing against a point Iqqi is making that makes absolutely no sense to me.

Take it however you feel and continue to post your valuable time away.

 

[Die Hard]

First of all: It's ironic but... Iqqi is one of the few in this thread who is making sense!

Anyway, you're not JUST arguing against a point Iqqi made, you liar... You do it to express your discomfort with the fact that people do immoral things and get away with it, or even get better from it!

In other words, you're just whining and doing nothing else. Way to go!! Clap, clap!!