If you aren't going forward, you are giong backwards

[MikeOck]

I agree with the original premise of this thread, "If you aren't moving forward, you are moving backward".

However, the relationship given as an example was doomed from the start. Of course any woman is going to want to maintain an equality or superiority with those in her social circle. I can't believe she hung on that long, at some point she must have really loved the guy. His problem was that he got himself involved with a woman whose social circle far exceeded his own means. There are plenty of women with social circles that take simple week-long trips to the closest beach or lake each summer and are perfectly satisfied. In fact, some of the happiest relationships that I know of are rather low income, they aren't traveling around the world every few months but then again, neither is their social circle. Remember, women are social climbers and they just don't want to be the worst off of their friends.

Now, she had every right to leave, it doesn't make her a wonderful person in my opinion, but it is her life and if she sleeps well at night then more power to her. What I am really curious about is the outcome of the new branch she swung to. My guess is that the new guy is a player and is just in it for a fling. Sooner or later the next flavor will catch his favor and this woman will be out on the curb, wishing she had the love of Mr. Restaurant Manager back. Hopefully by then he won't want to have anything to do with her.

 

[backbreaker]

I agree with the original premise of this thread, "If you aren't moving forward, you are moving backward".

However, the relationship given as an example was doomed from the start. Of course any woman is going to want to maintain an equality or superiority with those in her social circle. I can't believe she hung on that long, at some point she must have really loved the guy. His problem was that he got himself involved with a woman whose social circle far exceeded his own means. There are plenty of women with social circles that take simple week-long trips to the closest beach or lake each summer and are perfectly satisfied. In fact, some of the happiest relationships that I know of are rather low income, they aren't traveling around the world every few months but then again, neither is their social circle. Remember, women are social climbers and they just don't want to be the worst off of their friends.

Now, she had every right to leave, it doesn't make her a wonderful person in my opinion, but it is her life and if she sleeps well at night then more power to her. What I am really curious about is the outcome of the new branch she swung to. My guess is that the new guy is a player and is just in it for a fling. Sooner or later the next flavor will catch his favor and this woman will be out on the curb, wishing she had the love of Mr. Restaurant Manager back. Hopefully by then he won't want to have anything to do with her.

good insight.

I don't get that vibe. I think she really is into him. I also think she has been looking for a new branch for a while, i don't think she is all that interested in the ex anymore. but yeah she did really care about him. she's already moved in with the new guy though.

lit wasn't looking good from the start but i would not say it was doomed. 4 years ago had he showed some ambition he probaly would still have his girl now. and i mean 4 years he hasn't even considered proposingf to the girl and she's not geting any younger and it's like they just idled out if that makes sense. they started dating like 1 month before we did and her best friend is married and has a 4 year old son and and she lives in a house now and you look at them and they are in the exact same spot they were 4 years ago.

Damn so u let all that **** go down at your house and you're laughing at the guy?? Regardless of your rationalism, the guy just got his heart broke. Nice. Remember Bb, that was a version of you in the past and now you facilitate this drama. Stand up and he counted for the wtf you used to be, not saying you gotta white knight for this dude but how about not letting any situations like that develop.by putting your foot down? If this guy gets wise to you entertaining yourself off his problems, I hope he chin checks you. Losing my respect bro.

lol you are missing one extremely important fact: I'm married to the girl's best friend. in the strategic war that is marriage, this is one that not worth fighting lol. I'm not going to have my sex life with my wife screwed up by taking some stand for this dude when **** i even tried to make both of them take their relatinoship **** off the premises and he botched that by bringing a date. i'm not going to sit there and listent o my wife ***** to me about how that's not fair and how her friend is pissed off. at the end of hte day, i'm going to do what's in the best interest of keeping my wife happy in this regard beucase this is like, in the grand scheme of things like 67th on my give a **** list about.

but i don't side with either of them. go back to my very first post here, i clearly stated that this is why you don't' date people in your social circle.
i never should be in this position anyway and i'm damned if i do and i'm damned if i don't. then you split the friends into 2 camps and now you can't come around nd have a good time beucase your ex has her tongue down some dude's throat. that was my entire purpose of posting this int he first place to tell the dude i was talking to in the OP that social circle relationship aren't worth it.

and **** the dude brought a date the girl is from his job. so what happens when he breaks up with her? grow some balls and approach people not in your circle. we are watching the olympics later today there will be about 15 of us here in all, and we are going to have a blast and he is going to be at home wollowing in his own sorrow beucase he doesn't want to come around.

 

[disgustipated]

Good for him. That's where he belongs, far far away from that circle. Karma boomerang is a comin.

 

[backbreaker]

BB,

While I know that you are avoiding responding to my last post, I just want to drive the point home succinctly to you and the others who consider MRA types to be whiners.

Slavery in the US, was a construct of Man. Laws were put in place to keep men and women as the property of other people. There was a lot of anger on both sides, and perhaps even one side was called "whiners", or someone cited the "winners and losers". Some even took huge risks and helped slaves escape via the Underground Railroad. But in the end, the right thing was done and everyone is free.

70 years ago, Jewish people through-out Germany (and Europe) were being gathered and exterminated. The German based anti-semite laws were a construct of man. Many were smart enough to flee before things got bad, but many lives were lost or ruined. Sure it would be helpful to teach people to "not look Jewish", but some people took the very dangerous risk of hiding and helping the Jewish. I don't suppose they were called "whiners" or "losers", but they certainly had reason to complain.

Today, we have State mandated misandry.

• Men are losing their entire lives on the words of vindictive women. Men lose their children on the mere accusation of molestation (http://www.innocentdads.org/).
• Men are presumed guilty without a crime even having been commited (http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2012/06/05/Man-shooed-from-bookstores-kids-section/UPI-27091338933954/).
• Some men speak out against Feminism or the State sanctioned portions of it, only to lose their jobs, friends or endure endless shaming. But the men are trying to fix a problem. State mandated misandry.

Those of you would would shame such men, call them whiners or losers. Would you have also called 1940 Jewish victims "whiners" and "losers"?

Would you have called slaves or those who helped free them "whiners" and "losers"?

So, why the need to call men today, who are fighting a similar fight, such names? Most of the MRA's are NOT against hypergamy as much as they are against the State mandated hypergamy and misandry present in today's society.

If you aren't going to help, then get the fvk out of the way. But to shame and attack such men is as morally bankrupt as the women and state who use such tactics to keep the boot-heel on the neck of men who are innocent of anything other than be on the wrong side of a woman's hypergamic desire.

i'm not avoiding you I just am not interested in discussing the political aspets of hypergamy. that's not why I come here and partly why I developed such a pissy attitude in the first place.

 

[cordoncordon]

Originally Posted by iqqi



That's funny that one moment you are bringing up my tragic childhood of poverty and drugs, and then the next you feel sad for my soul that I said my mother could have done much better. My stepfather was an abusive, jobless drug dealer with many other faults, and my mother supported us both for way too long. She was a very pretty, generous, and huge hearted person who was admired by many. So yes, my mother and any woman could and should do better than that.

Your frothing comments towards me are super angry and bitter, maybe you should address that. You don't see me constantly bringing up your own past of cheating on your ex, and lying about your age on this forum for years, not to mention other less than stellar examples of your morality. Let's not keep getting so personal when it has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

ICKY these are my last words to you and then you absolutely will never get a response from me again. You seem to think I have some issue with you. I don't. In fact I have the opposite of that because to be honest you never enter my thought process, even in a microscopic fleeting instance, other than when I have to read your drivel on this forum. So, I say this to you and I mean this in all sincerity.

Take your egotistical/Miss know it all/ghetto/wigger poor excuse for a person and go ***k yourself.

 

[Married Buried]

Take your egotistical/Miss know it all/ghetto/wigger poor excuse for a person and go ***k yourself.

I bet she is reaching for the dildo as I type this.

 

[typical]

I love mother nature, so this is relevant. Yes the biggest bad-ass walrus might get the walrus-pvssy, but walruses also sh!t in front of each other, p!ss in front of each other, eat food raw -- we don't do everything animals do, to compare one set of their actions and impulses and say we humans are the same isn't a fair comparison. We have huge frontal lobes and the portion of the brain that controls some of our most primal animalistic things is, quite small, and we can see from the 16 pages on this thread alone, that humans are good at building a PSYCHOLOGICAL world that animals can't.

SO we can't use the simple patterns in other organisms to define the patterns in ourselves.

I didn't read the entirety of this thread, but honestly, I think the biggest issues have been missed. This chick may have been bummed about his 50K+ income, which BTW is great, and myself in the LOW BRACKET, 50K sounds wonderful -- but maybe they had some much deeper problems. It wasn't the $. Maybe it was the sechs. Maybe it was the conversation. Maybe he was just boring. IDK. Maybe she grew tired of him, or grew apart. THIS DOES NOT EXCUSE HER CHEATING and UNFAIR EMOTIONAL DISCONNECTION. Any good person will give you a HEADS UP when they're p!ssed. Not addressing concerns and just disconnecting is WEAK. I am guessing there were many issues beyond the $ with this guy, and she disconnected, cheated, and she was "emotionally protected" when she made the break -- the guy on the other hand was blindsided and heart-crushed.

Have some compassion for the dude. We've all been there. He knows now better attributes to seek in a partner. This chick if he is smart will be a valuable learning lesson and a pivoting point for a happier life. If he pedestals her, he's still phuked, but right now honestly other than his heart-break, he is LUCKY. No babies. No alimony. He is a free man, now with this 50K+ to find a chick who sees his value. Fvck that b.tch.

But I agree -- we can't EVER STOP PUSHING OURSELVES! NEVER! :rockon:

That may be how we would like to believe that we humans are like BUT the reality is given half a chance a man would slit another mans throat in the right and sometimes wrong circumstances. This statement is very vague but you can't deny the power or control our hind brain has in dictating how we interact with the world in everyday situations.

Like it or not most of the time people let their hind brain make the choice and then rationalize it with their front.

Slavery/ anti-semitism/ Feminism are all problems that have occurred because there aren't/weren't enough men to stand up and fight for what is right and wrong.

Hypergamy on the other hand has always been there its just in todays highly feminized world its much easier for a woman to follow her hypergamic imperative then it was 30+ years ago. Trust me you may think that your bird doesn't think about the fact that she could have gotten or can get a better man but she does, she just doesn't tell you or is afraid that if she fu(ks up her branch swing she will lose both men .......... insert comments about orbiters and friends that she keeps around just incase and also insert comments about doing the right thing and sticking with her man through thick and thin. Think about it its never about YOU ............ its always about HER and how secure her lifestyle is and how much YOU can provide to HER so she can pop out babies.

That's the way it goes in nature the Male leads/provides (higher order mammals apart from a certain few) and the females breed and nurture and choose the the best male that they can or the one that wins the territory, and they don't nuture the males they nurture their offspring and each other, adolescent males are chased off early.

Nothing has changed for humans just because we have a more developed frontal lobe and a higher understanding of the world around us does not change how nature has programmed us from the start.

 

[Buddha_Mind]

That may be how we would like to believe that we humans are like BUT the reality is given half a chance a man would slit another mans throat in the right and sometimes wrong circumstances. This statement is very vague but you can't deny the power or control our hind brain has in dictating how we interact with the world in everyday situations.

Like it or not most of the time people let their hind brain make the choice and then rationalize it with their front.

Slavery/ anti-semitism/ Feminism are all problems that have occurred because there aren't/weren't enough men to stand up and fight for what is right and wrong.

Hypergamy on the other hand has always been there its just in todays highly feminized world its much easier for a woman to follow her hypergamic imperative then it was 30+ years ago. Trust me you may think that your bird doesn't think about the fact that she could have gotten or can get a better man but she does, she just doesn't tell you or is afraid that if she fu(ks up her branch swing she will lose both men .......... insert comments about orbiters and friends that she keeps around just incase and also insert comments about doing the right thing and sticking with her man through thick and thin. Think about it its never about YOU ............ its always about HER and how secure her lifestyle is and how much YOU can provide to HER so she can pop out babies.

That's the way it goes in nature the Male leads/provides (higher order mammals apart from a certain few) and the females breed and nurture and choose the the best male that they can or the one that wins the territory, and they don't nuture the males they nurture their offspring and each other, adolescent males are chased off early.

Nothing has changed for humans just because we have a more developed frontal lobe and a higher understanding of the world around us does not change how nature has programmed us from the start.

Your views about higher order mammals are correct. They do provide for the females (mostly just defend them...a lot of the females still do the hunting). The females do nurture their young. Some females push ALL young away very early, other species have longer relationships until they go solo.

But to say we are the same is just not true. I agree with what you are saying, but also lions KILL any off-spring that is not their own. That means if you started dating a chick with a kid, your urge is to suffocate the child or kill it? Not every man thinks this way even inherently biologically. In fact, I know MANY MEN who meet a chick with a kid and actually become a POSITIVE role-model for the kid, or take the kid under their own wing. That's not a Lion or Elephant Seal's perspective.

But the spectrum of intelligence is wide. There are very very dumb men, and there are very very dumb women. Some of these may be purely guided by their hind-brain. I'm just saying I don't think MOST MEN are this way, nor do I think MOST WOMEN, at least INTELLIGENT people.

A lot has changed for us. We are like no other animal on this planet. We can't be so easily 1:1 compared. We've created space ships. We've created this computer box that can send you a message and you can read it (or go fulfill your hind-brain by looking at porn). To see ourselves as the exact same as the rest of the animal world and unable to break away is false. We already have in many ways. If we can't see past our own destructive animalistic habits we FOR CERTAIN won't make any progress.

I do agree biology sets the foundation. But culture, environment, this heavily shapes how we choose sexual mates. Even in nature basic physiological things are not always the end-game in terms of sexual-selection. There are many behavioral patterns that dictate. In America, there are countless cultural aspects that relate to breeding and sexual interest, etc, etc. I will never buy the argument that we are 'stuck' just as the animals. We've turned sand into computer chips, we've pushed into almost every environment that to us is hostile, including space. This push for more won't ever stop, assuming we don't nuke ourselves or destroy the biosphere entirely.

EDIT - It should also be noted NOT every animal is hypergamous!! Eagles and many birds for example, highly developed smart hunters, are MONOGAMOUS until DEATH! Some humans are hypergamous, some are monogamous! We have many different strategies for survival, and this diversity is likely why we've made it 350,000 years!

 

[Atom Smasher]

ICKY these are my last words to you and then you absolutely will never get a response from me again. You seem to think I have some issue with you. I don't. In fact I have the opposite of that because to be honest you never enter my thought process, even in a microscopic fleeting instance, other than when I have to read your drivel on this forum. So, I say this to you and I mean this in all sincerity.

Take your egotistical/Miss know it all/ghetto/wigger poor excuse for a person and go ***k yourself.

CC, I expect you to now post in the "The No Contact Challenge" thread.

 

[cordoncordon]

CC, I expect you to now post in the "The No Contact Challenge" thread.

Haha nice!

 

[typical]

Your views about higher order mammals are correct. They do provide for the females (mostly just defend them...a lot of the females still do the hunting). The females do nurture their young. Some females push ALL young away very early, other species have longer relationships until they go solo.

But to say we are the same is just not true. I agree with what you are saying, but also lions KILL any off-spring that is not their own. That means if you started dating a chick with a kid, your urge is to suffocate the child or kill it? Not every man thinks this way even inherently biologically. In fact, I know MANY MEN who meet a chick with a kid and actually become a POSITIVE role-model for the kid, or take the kid under their own wing. That's not a Lion or Elephant Seal's perspective.

But the spectrum of intelligence is wide. There are very very dumb men, and there are very very dumb women. Some of these may be purely guided by their hind-brain. I'm just saying I don't think MOST MEN are this way, nor do I think MOST WOMEN, at least INTELLIGENT people.

A lot has changed for us. We are like no other animal on this planet. We can't be so easily 1:1 compared. We've created space ships. We've created this computer box that can send you a message and you can read it (or go fulfill your hind-brain by looking at porn). To see ourselves as the exact same as the rest of the animal world and unable to break away is false. We already have in many ways. If we can't see past our own destructive animalistic habits we FOR CERTAIN won't make any progress.

I do agree biology sets the foundation. But culture, environment, this heavily shapes how we choose sexual mates. Even in nature basic physiological things are not always the end-game in terms of sexual-selection. There are many behavioral patterns that dictate. In America, there are countless cultural aspects that relate to breeding and sexual interest, etc, etc. I will never buy the argument that we are 'stuck' just as the animals. We've turned sand into computer chips, we've pushed into almost every environment that to us is hostile, including space. This push for more won't ever stop, assuming we don't nuke ourselves or destroy the biosphere entirely.

EDIT - It should also be noted NOT every animal is hypergamous!! Eagles and many birds for example, highly developed smart hunters, are MONOGAMOUS until DEATH! Some humans are hypergamous, some are monogamous! We have many different strategies for survival, and this diversity is likely why we've made it 350,000 years!

I completely understand and agree with everything you're saying BUT the vast majority of humans do not think about any of these things at all they are only concerned with how any external stimulus affects them and nothing more. That is what we are dealing with on a daily basis, people that are only in it for themselves, if you are a caring person you're going to get chewed up and spat out so you have to treat everyone the same and always test their loyalty and screen their behaviour, any negative attributes and you have to start looking elsewhere.

I understand that not all people are the same but you can't go around wearing your heart on your sleeve and expect people to be good to you. In my late teens and early tweens I was hanging around some bad people there you get to see all sides of the people you interact with, and when push comes to shove majority of them bail out ASAP given a tiny chance of making it better. Some of these people are the nicest most loving caring individuals you would ever meet.

Like pook and AD said you throw the people into your "machine" and only the good ones will make it through, meanwhile you make sure you look after yourself and the people that are close to you, and always always have a backup plan incase sh!t hits the fan.

 

[Knight's Cross]

BB you are so right about this thread. People do what is most important to them at a given time. Back several years ago I was married. Had been for 3 years. Had some ups and downs, but then I came down with a medical condition. It looked like it was going to be long term debilitating. Right then and there my ex was headed for the door. I actually look back as it was a really good indicator of her character, but now I just see it for what it was. She thought she deserved better and was going to go look for it. So we got divorced. Haleluja, no kids, no major property, no strings. I got better, condition healed, and I'm 100%. Have a great life, great career...

I do understand what you are saying tho, at that time I wasn't moving forward. I was moving backwards. It wasn't thru lack of ambition, but medical. Doesn't matter to most women. They don't care. You are either providing for them or they think they can do better. What I can say I'm most proud of is I saw it coming, stopped all my $ coming into joint accounts and went to war with my attorney. The look on her face when the sherriff served her divorce papers.....priceless.

Now I'm strictly a member of the catch and release crowd.

KC

 

[backbreaker]

BB you are so right about this thread. People do what is most important to them at a given time. Back several years ago I was married. Had been for 3 years. Had some ups and downs, but then I came down with a medical condition. It looked like it was going to be long term debilitating. Right then and there my ex was headed for the door. I actually look back as it was a really good indicator of her character, but now I just see it for what it was. She thought she deserved better and was going to go look for it. So we got divorced. Haleluja, no kids, no major property, no strings. I got better, condition healed, and I'm 100%. Have a great life, great career...

I do understand what you are saying tho, at that time I wasn't moving forward. I was moving backwards. It wasn't thru lack of ambition, but medical. Doesn't matter to most women. They don't care. You are either providing for them or they think they can do better. What I can say I'm most proud of is I saw it coming, stopped all my $ coming into joint accounts and went to war with my attorney. The look on her face when the sherriff served her divorce papers.....priceless.

Now I'm strictly a member of the catch and release crowd.

KC

glad to see you are okay. that had to suck.


i was so bitter and mean and hateful towards women once i finally started to see some success in my business life. I had a chip the size of mt everest on my shoulder for the way i was treated, ignored, the whole bit. women who would avoid me like i had ebola 2 years ago were calling out the blue and seeing was i busy and did i want to go out. girls who i tried to just. not even date, just tyo do something with to kill time when i was broke and struggling and who would avoid my calls and flake were now all over me and i depsied them.. for a few years.

then i realized.. it's nothing personal. it's just the way **** is. people, for the most part, do not care what you want to do,t hey care what you have done. people do not care what you are going to be they care what are. people don't' care what you want to look like they care what you look like now.

 

[betheman]

BB you are so right about this thread. People do what is most important to them at a given time. Back several years ago I was married. Had been for 3 years. Had some ups and downs, but then I came down with a medical condition. It looked like it was going to be long term debilitating. Right then and there my ex was headed for the door. I actually look back as it was a really good indicator of her character, but now I just see it for what it was. She thought she deserved better and was going to go look for it. So we got divorced. Haleluja, no kids, no major property, no strings. I got better, condition healed, and I'm 100%. Have a great life, great career...

I do understand what you are saying tho, at that time I wasn't moving forward. I was moving backwards. It wasn't thru lack of ambition, but medical. Doesn't matter to most women. They don't care. You are either providing for them or they think they can do better. What I can say I'm most proud of is I saw it coming, stopped all my $ coming into joint accounts and went to war with my attorney. The look on her face when the sherriff served her divorce papers.....priceless.

Now I'm strictly a member of the catch and release crowd.

KC

glad it worked out for you, a heartwarming story!

one problem I continue to have with this stuff though, you were married, presumiably you made vows? sickness and in health, richer/poorer etc !
women have never waleked away from marriage in the numbers and with the eease with which they do now. would you ever consider marriage again? I know I wouldnt and I had a reasonably good one. it appears to me that Married guys have a gun to their heads but someohow if you have good game, its all ok??? that Game, provides some form of immunity, I dont believe it does, its a shield and reduces the risks but it isnt a panacea for all her game