If you aren't going forward, you are giong backwards
- Thread starter backbreaker
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backbreaker
Master Don Juan
Please refer to my post on the other page. I will quote it here for youbetheman said:
this is by defination a logical fallacy (you say that women always want to move up, your woman has the abiilty to if she choses to leave and chose someone better therefore your argument is not true)
you know reading this thread... I don't think most men understand truly what hypergamy means. I used this example before, about the girl at my gym who is honestly, physically better looking than my wife and I probably could date her if I really wanted to. she's 12 years younger than her as well and works out every day and has an ass you can do back flips on. and guys will be quick to point out that "see the fact that ou have not left your wife for her proves that hypergamy is overrated". that to me just shows that you don't understand the true nature of hypergamy beucase you assume that beucase she is better looking and younger that she is a better option for me when she's not even close. My wife like me is a racing fanatic, this girl hates horse racing and gambling in general. My wife genuinely likes sexual contact this woman wears a chastity ring lol. my wife's credit score is better than mine, by a significant margin at that, damn near 800 on equifax, this woman has about 20k in student loans. I am not the most religious guy on earth neither is my wife, this girl is a hardcore bible thumper. she isn't close to being a better option for me than my wife even being better looking and younger. she's much worse. **** i wouldn't date her if i were single. we aren't compatible. i know we aren't having sex lol so what's the point?
every guy out there that has more money than me or is better looking than me isn't a better option than me for my wife. And **** even if she found a guy who had 10x my income, was a greek god in the looks department and was more than willing to take on her and my son, and shared the same passions in llife that she does, he still would have to possess the game that I have, to even be the same option that I am. my wife has a pretty sweet gig lol
Its not my fuc king argument at all, I do think you are being very selective in your deductions though. you have screened your woman long and hard, like a true alpha...good for you, but, even you are not immune and yet you seem to think you are. as rollo himslf says, attraction is not a choice, yes she is attracted to you now, what of next week? next month? years? do you think because you are moving forward that is enough? ther eis always someone better, even if he wears a pair of $20 jeans, in her eyes he could be better to herbackbreaker said:
ebracer05
Senior Don Juan
The backlash isn't against the SMP, at least I don't think. The views Danger has articulated about things like Obamacare suggest he would agree with people like Adam Smith, Hayek, Mises, Hobbes, and all of the other philosophers/economists who apply the principles of self interest towards money and politics. They're offering a description of human nature based on their observations and theories and you either believe that's how people fundamentally are or you don't.backbreaker said:
If people are fundamentally self interested, as I believe they are, the SMP is the application of rational self interest to human sexuality. That's not anything to get p*ssed off about. However, what is something to get p*ssed about... even meritoriously p*ssed... is when the government starts writing things in to law or decided court cases that essentially become law that create a legal disadvantage for men in the SMP.
Going back to those classical liberal philosophers, one requisite they all had for things to work right in a system where rational self interest ruled was that people had to have equality of opportunity rather than equality of outcome. That's obviously where the term "free market" comes from. It's hard to have rational free choice in a market place that is dominated by monopolies, cartels, or other encumbrances competition. That's what this is all about really... I don't know that anyone here says it like this very often, but that's what hypergamy really is - it's analogous to competition in free market economics.
And that's probably why guys like BB keep telling everyone to stop hating on hypergamy. That's not where the problem is. The problem is that if the scenario Danger and I have articulated is real, we have b*stardized form of hypergamy that may not even qualify as the real thing. Rational choice in inhibited and we don't have a "free" sexual market place. Obviously the concept of hypergamy is theoretical and it will never exist in reality as neatly as it does in the ideal, but that is not the system we're living in. When a man can be sent to prison on nothing more than the word of a woman who said that he raped her, it's laughable to say that our system has the SMP's equivalent of equality of opportunity. The deck is stacked against us.
BB, how competitive could your business be if in your business's sphere there was a large cartel operating in the same line of work you're in? What if there was a monopoly?
Men are greatly inhibited from competing in the sexual market place when it becomes illegal to express the compete essence of masculinity.
On the other hand, femininity is encouraged to the extent that men are encouraged to become more feminine.
That is not competition and thus, I don't think you can say we are operating within a system governed by hypergamy. Whatever it is is like hypergamy, but it's like hypergamy the same way that weight dice are like real dice.
Look at what happens to a man who doesn't want to engage in committed relationships with women but still wants sex.
Look at the way most men are vilified on TV whenever they engage in masculine behavior.
Notice the lack of rights of passage in our society for young men.
What happens when during a divorce, a man tries to sue for paternity rights? When he doesn't get those rights, who does the government make pay to support the poor divorcee and the children?
What happens when a man gets a woman pregnant and doesn't want a child... but she does? And moreso, who does the government make pay for that child or God forbid, twins?
Why is it that there are no "reproductive rights" for men? Why isn't there an oral male contraceptive available? Actually, there is - 500mg testosterone weekly. Believe it or not, the Chinese actually use that sometimes. But more realistically, why have the three pharmaceutical drugs that have entered clinical testing for this purpose all had their development stopped by the manufactures despite any incidence of adverse effects?
Why is it that women are involved in a significantly higher rate of motor vehicle accidents and moving violations than men, and yet they are receive much few citations for their crimes and men have much higher insurance premiums the law requires them to carry and pay.
Have you ever seen a ribbon for prostate or testicular cancer? I wouldn't want a ribbon to represent a men's health issue, but that's not the point.
Look at the legal doctrine "disparity of force". That means, essentially, that a man who becomes violently involved with a woman is going to get in more trouble than a woman who becomes violently involved with a man. And of course in general I think there will be a disparity of force between men and women, but the law does not account for cases where this is not true. And have you ever heard of a woman getting arrested for assaulting a man?
There was a cardiologist in Rhode Island, someone posted about this a little while ago... who got kicked out of the children's section of Barn's and Noble because a woman complained to the staff saying he looked like a child predator. Their reasoning for removing him from the store was that they don't allow men in the children's section. He was looking for a present for his nephew when he received a call from a patient.
That is just what I can think of immediately off hand. And after thinking about it, why do I even need to make this case on this website, lol?
That's my problem with the system. It has nothing to do with the sexual market place, the fact that there are winners and loses, or that people are going to be rationally self interested in their sexual decision making. It's the administrative nature of the system that is unfairly stacked against men. That is not a free marketplace.
EDIT - I saw Danger's post after I made this. I would rep you for it, but apparently I need to spread the reputation around some more first.
2nd EDIT - It's also important to note that sometimes rational self interest does not equal rational choice. There are a lot of economic examples of this. An example of this is the Dollar Auction that comes from game theory: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dollar_auction. In that example, it is in a person's rational best interest to overpay for something. This would be part of hypergamy too. Sometimes 1 + 1 does not equal 2 because there was a 3rd integer on the left side of the equation we didn't see or people give subjective valuation to the integers. There are also a lot of qualitative elements to all of this will vary subjectively from person to person. Regardless of the claims made by the veterans at this website, the generalizations advanced here to do apply absolutely equally to all women. There are some women who will value the stability and the history they have in the context of a long term relationship with a man more than they would value the excitement and allure of a potentially temporary affair that would have the potential to end their preexisting relationship. And some women are opposite that.
The point is, the opportunity cost of every action and decision will vary between women. I think the website has done a good job of establishing the normal distribution these values tend to aggregate, but there are always outliers and there is always variance.
The theory of hypergamy that Rollo and other are advancing sounds a lot like Adam Smith's original thesis in The Wealth of Nations. It could probably benefit from some consideration from newer concepts like Rational Choice Theory, Game Theory, Public Choice Theory, and Social Choice Theory to name a few. Evolutionary psychology does not absolutely answer every single sexually related question.
As a libertarian, I'm about as laissez faire as it gets, but at the end of the day, like I said originally, free self interested rational choice is not always rational to every observer. It is rational to the individual, but not everyone else. A more quantitative example is relative velocity in physics. If you are traveling at 20m/s north and a car is traveling towards you at 20m/s south, the two cars will appear to be traveling at 40m/s relative to each other. To everyone who is not moving, they will appear to be traveling their actual speed.
backbreaker
Master Don Juan
Okay I get where you and danger are coming from now. I get it 100%. It's not hypergamy itself but that one sex is allowed by law to practice while the other is inhibited by law to do so. I get that.
here is the thing though.. at least the way I see it.. isn't that what this forum is for? if so, what's all the babbling about it about? Yes I will agree with you 150% it's fvcked up that a man can't leave his wife who has gained 100 pounds and isn't attractive anymore when a woman can not only do so but when she does, the man might even still have to pay her alimony. that's very fvcked up. But that's why we have a mature man section on this forum... to learn how to, as best as possible, spot, identify potential issues that deal with relationships that can and will prevent you from being a victim of having the deck stacked against you methoprhay speaking. We teach you that the relationship or game is not over once you put a ring on her finger, we teach you how to spot potential bad apples so you aren't emotionally and financially fvcked in the long run.
It's like, for instance, I don't agree with the drug laws in America. if you go to a county jail right now, any one, if there are 50 guys int here, 30 of them are in there on BS drug charges where they did not hurt anyone. I don't agree with it, but you know, by not doing drugs, I don't put myself in a position to even have to deal with the BS drug laws. I'm not going to lose sleep over America's drug laws as fvcked up as they are beucase they don't and won't directly effect me beucase I won't let it.
by applying the correct principles and screening women and spinning plates, it puts you in a position to not have to deal with any of this stuff for the most part anyway. The focus IMHO shoudl not be so much on changing society but just better equipping men and us as a whole to understand what everything else that way you aren't fvcked by the system. the system is not going to change but you can make people more aware of the system and therefore not subjected to it it's pitfalls.
I really started getting this stuff around the age of 23 years old. I have had less drama in my relatioship life in 7 years combined, then I had just as a 21 year old, and it's not even close. By drama I mean BS started by women or putting myself in a position that i could be scresed over. Besides the woman / girl who tried tos ay i sexually assaulted her, that's really it. If i saw and signs or I did not like what I saw i gearally kicked you to the curve. when i was 21 i got caught up paying for a girl's college and buying her **** and dealing with 2 different girls trying to get pregno one lying about it and one actually trying to get pregnant by poking holes in a condom, another girl cheating on me with some random dude she met in the club.... what i am saying is, I put myself in those situations by not applying the rules of the game properly and i subjected myself to the mercy of whatever.. rather it be the court system if the girl kept the baby which she did not thank god, rather it be marriage as i toyed with the idea of proposing to the gril who cheated on me... while the system is fvcked up i'm the one who is jumping into the game without knowing the rules.
since then, zilch. no drama, no BS, nothing.
the way I see it, the laws are there for a legit reason. the reason it's in favor for women to leave their men is beucase before all the new laws back in the "good ole days" men could just beat the **** out of their wifes and what could they do? they couldn't leave they didnt' have jobs or income lol. the laws are there for a reason and we forgot that. a man and a wife have 2 kids and they are in their mid 30's and get a divorce and she is say a school teacher and he is an engineer and pays 2 times what she makes, regardless of whyt hey left the kids have to be supported. The probelm is, that when you do not screen your woman correctly you allow the chance for women who are not of high moral character to manipulate the system.
For all this ****, my dad has been divorced now 4 times and has not in his entire life paid 1 cent of alimony. Because he doesn't marry women who are out for his money. he knows the difference between good ***** and a good wife. a lot of men don't.
here is the thing though.. at least the way I see it.. isn't that what this forum is for? if so, what's all the babbling about it about? Yes I will agree with you 150% it's fvcked up that a man can't leave his wife who has gained 100 pounds and isn't attractive anymore when a woman can not only do so but when she does, the man might even still have to pay her alimony. that's very fvcked up. But that's why we have a mature man section on this forum... to learn how to, as best as possible, spot, identify potential issues that deal with relationships that can and will prevent you from being a victim of having the deck stacked against you methoprhay speaking. We teach you that the relationship or game is not over once you put a ring on her finger, we teach you how to spot potential bad apples so you aren't emotionally and financially fvcked in the long run.
It's like, for instance, I don't agree with the drug laws in America. if you go to a county jail right now, any one, if there are 50 guys int here, 30 of them are in there on BS drug charges where they did not hurt anyone. I don't agree with it, but you know, by not doing drugs, I don't put myself in a position to even have to deal with the BS drug laws. I'm not going to lose sleep over America's drug laws as fvcked up as they are beucase they don't and won't directly effect me beucase I won't let it.
by applying the correct principles and screening women and spinning plates, it puts you in a position to not have to deal with any of this stuff for the most part anyway. The focus IMHO shoudl not be so much on changing society but just better equipping men and us as a whole to understand what everything else that way you aren't fvcked by the system. the system is not going to change but you can make people more aware of the system and therefore not subjected to it it's pitfalls.
I really started getting this stuff around the age of 23 years old. I have had less drama in my relatioship life in 7 years combined, then I had just as a 21 year old, and it's not even close. By drama I mean BS started by women or putting myself in a position that i could be scresed over. Besides the woman / girl who tried tos ay i sexually assaulted her, that's really it. If i saw and signs or I did not like what I saw i gearally kicked you to the curve. when i was 21 i got caught up paying for a girl's college and buying her **** and dealing with 2 different girls trying to get pregno one lying about it and one actually trying to get pregnant by poking holes in a condom, another girl cheating on me with some random dude she met in the club.... what i am saying is, I put myself in those situations by not applying the rules of the game properly and i subjected myself to the mercy of whatever.. rather it be the court system if the girl kept the baby which she did not thank god, rather it be marriage as i toyed with the idea of proposing to the gril who cheated on me... while the system is fvcked up i'm the one who is jumping into the game without knowing the rules.
since then, zilch. no drama, no BS, nothing.
the way I see it, the laws are there for a legit reason. the reason it's in favor for women to leave their men is beucase before all the new laws back in the "good ole days" men could just beat the **** out of their wifes and what could they do? they couldn't leave they didnt' have jobs or income lol. the laws are there for a reason and we forgot that. a man and a wife have 2 kids and they are in their mid 30's and get a divorce and she is say a school teacher and he is an engineer and pays 2 times what she makes, regardless of whyt hey left the kids have to be supported. The probelm is, that when you do not screen your woman correctly you allow the chance for women who are not of high moral character to manipulate the system.
For all this ****, my dad has been divorced now 4 times and has not in his entire life paid 1 cent of alimony. Because he doesn't marry women who are out for his money. he knows the difference between good ***** and a good wife. a lot of men don't.
PrettyBoyAJ
Master Don Juan
Good stuff. Game is everything.backbreaker said:
Welcome back, backbreaker. Good to hear you are ok and are working on your inner happiness.
Can we get back to hating iqqi now? Rollo is right, she'd make a great HUSsie.
I don't understand why it's so hard to comprehend.
Rollo, I get it that it is in the wolf's nature to kill and eat my sheep. I understand, but it does not mean I'm going to get my farm hands together and sing its praises "Good dog!!!" No, we're getting together to smack the sh1t out of Wolfie, and we'll come up with ways to make sure Wolfie never does it again.
Some people here seem to adopt this every man for himself mentality when it comes to being a victim of hypergamy. I have lived in community and society where men band together and support one of their own when a woman (in the wrong) tries to harm him. In our Western society, all of you could easily be a victim of a vengeful woman, regardless of how alpha you think you are. If you ever find yourself so unfortunate, would you like us - other men - to bring the firewood that they are going to burn you with, to point and laugh at your going backwards, or to lend a helping hand? If you believe you're invincible, think about your son(s). How you act towards men suffering injustice today will come back into your life at a later stage.
At the very least, we can use shaming against a branch swinging woman NOT invite her into our home and feed her, while socially ostracising the man she hurts.
This is the place where men help each other, even though we're anonymous. I'm disappointed that even among men with this level of awareness, we have people who act just as badly towards men suffering injustice as the mangina white knights and feminists.
Can we get back to hating iqqi now? Rollo is right, she'd make a great HUSsie.
That is it.Danger said:
I don't understand why it's so hard to comprehend.
Rollo, I get it that it is in the wolf's nature to kill and eat my sheep. I understand, but it does not mean I'm going to get my farm hands together and sing its praises "Good dog!!!" No, we're getting together to smack the sh1t out of Wolfie, and we'll come up with ways to make sure Wolfie never does it again.
Some people here seem to adopt this every man for himself mentality when it comes to being a victim of hypergamy. I have lived in community and society where men band together and support one of their own when a woman (in the wrong) tries to harm him. In our Western society, all of you could easily be a victim of a vengeful woman, regardless of how alpha you think you are. If you ever find yourself so unfortunate, would you like us - other men - to bring the firewood that they are going to burn you with, to point and laugh at your going backwards, or to lend a helping hand? If you believe you're invincible, think about your son(s). How you act towards men suffering injustice today will come back into your life at a later stage.
At the very least, we can use shaming against a branch swinging woman NOT invite her into our home and feed her, while socially ostracising the man she hurts.
This is the place where men help each other, even though we're anonymous. I'm disappointed that even among men with this level of awareness, we have people who act just as badly towards men suffering injustice as the mangina white knights and feminists.
iqqi
Master Don Juan
Originally Posted by iqqi
I do know women like the girl in the OP, and I also know women who would never do what the girl in the OP did... to their detriment. I wish to hell my mother would have "traded up", she sure had tons of opportunities thrown her way, lmao!
That's funny that one moment you are bringing up my tragic childhood of poverty and drugs, and then the next you feel sad for my soul that I said my mother could have done much better. My stepfather was an abusive, jobless drug dealer with many other faults, and my mother supported us both for way too long. She was a very pretty, generous, and huge hearted person who was admired by many. So yes, my mother and any woman could and should do better than that.
Your frothing comments towards me are super angry and bitter, maybe you should address that. You don't see me constantly bringing up your own past of cheating on your ex, and lying about your age on this forum for years, not to mention other less than stellar examples of your morality. Let's not keep getting so personal when it has nothing to do with the topic at hand.
.................
Besides all that, interesting discussion taking place now that Backbreaker has returned. I wonder what ideas are had about a possible current SOLUTION: to hypergamy.
I do know women like the girl in the OP, and I also know women who would never do what the girl in the OP did... to their detriment. I wish to hell my mother would have "traded up", she sure had tons of opportunities thrown her way, lmao!
cordoncordon said:
That's funny that one moment you are bringing up my tragic childhood of poverty and drugs, and then the next you feel sad for my soul that I said my mother could have done much better. My stepfather was an abusive, jobless drug dealer with many other faults, and my mother supported us both for way too long. She was a very pretty, generous, and huge hearted person who was admired by many. So yes, my mother and any woman could and should do better than that.
Your frothing comments towards me are super angry and bitter, maybe you should address that. You don't see me constantly bringing up your own past of cheating on your ex, and lying about your age on this forum for years, not to mention other less than stellar examples of your morality. Let's not keep getting so personal when it has nothing to do with the topic at hand.
.................
Besides all that, interesting discussion taking place now that Backbreaker has returned. I wonder what ideas are had about a possible current SOLUTION: to hypergamy.
Boilermaker
Master Don Juan
- Joined
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Yeah, I have to agree you sound like an idiot when you write "LOL" like a pre-pubescent teenager.Warrior74 said:
BB, you should quit it too brother, it just doesn't exist in the English language. And it doesn't mean a thing to the majority of us.
Oh, I apologize for disrupting this beautifully coherent thread, it flows like Beethoven.
Go on, everyone
Please.
backbreaker
Master Don Juan
giving a solution would imply that there is a problem which I do not believe is the case. It's just the way **** is.
Sex or having a companion it's not like it's in the bill of rights or anything. ***** is not a constitutional right lol. There will always be winners and there will always be losers. That's just the way **** is and has been and always will be.
when you break all the **** down, all of it, the emotions, the sex drive, why we do what we do, the very core of our being is simply, to produce offspring that have a great chance to go on and produce themselves. That is how the human race has survived and thrived for as long as it has. That's our basic function as human beings.
I was watching blue planet last night (again lol) and it was the eposide where the walrus or whatever sea lion whatever the fvck the big fat ass animals were on the polar ice caps and there was this one lion just taking all the walurs ***** lol. all of it. and then the other males would come up and he woudl blow up his nose or whatever and scare all the dudes off and keep fvcking all the females. I'm sure all the beta walrus would fit right in with the guys who think that hypergamy is a ****ty thing, but evolution/nature requires it. It's bigger than what I think is fair or whatever.
Sex or having a companion it's not like it's in the bill of rights or anything. ***** is not a constitutional right lol. There will always be winners and there will always be losers. That's just the way **** is and has been and always will be.
when you break all the **** down, all of it, the emotions, the sex drive, why we do what we do, the very core of our being is simply, to produce offspring that have a great chance to go on and produce themselves. That is how the human race has survived and thrived for as long as it has. That's our basic function as human beings.
I was watching blue planet last night (again lol) and it was the eposide where the walrus or whatever sea lion whatever the fvck the big fat ass animals were on the polar ice caps and there was this one lion just taking all the walurs ***** lol. all of it. and then the other males would come up and he woudl blow up his nose or whatever and scare all the dudes off and keep fvcking all the females. I'm sure all the beta walrus would fit right in with the guys who think that hypergamy is a ****ty thing, but evolution/nature requires it. It's bigger than what I think is fair or whatever.
I don't take myself that seriously to really give a **** honestly. **** lol is probably better spelled than half the fvcking words i type and you want me to stop that? what am i going to have then lol?
Buddha_Mind
Master Don Juan
I love mother nature, so this is relevant. Yes the biggest bad-ass walrus might get the walrus-pvssy, but walruses also sh!t in front of each other, p!ss in front of each other, eat food raw -- we don't do everything animals do, to compare one set of their actions and impulses and say we humans are the same isn't a fair comparison. We have huge frontal lobes and the portion of the brain that controls some of our most primal animalistic things is, quite small, and we can see from the 16 pages on this thread alone, that humans are good at building a PSYCHOLOGICAL world that animals can't.backbreaker said:
SO we can't use the simple patterns in other organisms to define the patterns in ourselves.
I didn't read the entirety of this thread, but honestly, I think the biggest issues have been missed. This chick may have been bummed about his 50K+ income, which BTW is great, and myself in the LOW BRACKET, 50K sounds wonderful -- but maybe they had some much deeper problems. It wasn't the $. Maybe it was the sechs. Maybe it was the conversation. Maybe he was just boring. IDK. Maybe she grew tired of him, or grew apart. THIS DOES NOT EXCUSE HER CHEATING and UNFAIR EMOTIONAL DISCONNECTION. Any good person will give you a HEADS UP when they're p!ssed. Not addressing concerns and just disconnecting is WEAK. I am guessing there were many issues beyond the $ with this guy, and she disconnected, cheated, and she was "emotionally protected" when she made the break -- the guy on the other hand was blindsided and heart-crushed.
Have some compassion for the dude. We've all been there. He knows now better attributes to seek in a partner. This chick if he is smart will be a valuable learning lesson and a pivoting point for a happier life. If he pedestals her, he's still phuked, but right now honestly other than his heart-break, he is LUCKY. No babies. No alimony. He is a free man, now with this 50K+ to find a chick who sees his value. Fvck that b.tch.
But I agree -- we can't EVER STOP PUSHING OURSELVES! NEVER! :rockon:
backbreaker
Master Don Juan
50k lol? **** i would be shocked if he pulled home 30k. i really would. he lives with 2 room mates and can barley afford that.Buddha_Mind said:
I mean.. to me this is quite cut and dry. yes it's about more than just money, but my big thing is why do men go out of their way to make things not about money? like money can't be a factor or somethign into her decision making process.
I mean look at it. When they were dating, first started dating she worked as an exercise rider at the track riding horses. probably made about 400 a week, no one there is rich, everyone there is there beucase they are living out a dream somewhat to be around horses. it's not a gig you do to get rich. all her friends were just like her for the most part. at that time, when she was there, her BF was the perfect mold; hey let's get together let's hang out and do ****, let's go to the movies let's sit around and drink cheap beer and watch netflix rentals type ****. and there is nothing wrong witht hat per say do your thing.
but slowly everyone started to.. for lack of a better word, just, enter a different phase of life. once my wife got pregnant she hung it up. it was fun, but it was time to do something different. then all your friends start doing the same, moving on to other things, other phases in life. and it got to the point where it was time for her to do the same thing, time to for her to get a corporate job.
so she does this, and she has a new circle of friends. now her friends all have houses and cars and go on vacations and travel and go fishing in nice boats and just.. they do **** that she was not used to doing when all her friends were broke. Our only real bond, as in her and my wife was that that we all still love horses so we all had that but other than that, not really much else. so you are around these friends, and.. now sitting around watching netflix rentals every night and drinking beer is not all that cool to do every night. one of her new friends is pregnant, and she is the same age as her, it gets her thinking ****, i'm 26 hell i want a family. 4 years ago no one gave a **** about any of this type of ****.
and you try to hang out with the new people and.. it's just not a fit. what you value is starting to change.. you want something different out of life than you wanted 4 years ago. rather that's right or wrong, that's up for debate and i'm not there to answer that, but it is what it is. I mean there is nothing wrong with working at a resturant I'm not so much ****ting his job as much as I am ****ting his ambition he has none. He doesn't get the Animal Farm inside joke reference beucase he never bothered to read the book (lol she didn't either but that's beside the point). You can't go out to a real upscale restaurant with your new friends on a friday night beucase not only can he not afford to he doesn't have any clothes to wear even if he could afford it.
her interests in life have changed and her ex has not changed with them. And that's fine, i don't understand what the fuss is about people grow apart. He can go find a woman who isn't as materialistic or whatever and she can find someone who is and they can be both happy i don';t understand the need to paint someone as a victium and someone as a villain. their values aren't the same anymore. neither is better or worse than the other.
I've met the guy and honestly.. i kinda like him lol. he's a cool dude. I can see why she is attracted to him (and it's real attraction make no mistake sit's all there). good not great looking but you can tell he takes care of himself, very sharp dude, very sure of himself. He's the type of dude we can sit down and I know we could have a 1 hour debate over different classic books yet at the same time not be so much of a douche that he doesn't know about the Dwight Howard NBA saga. He's a business man's man if that makes sense. he fits what she wants and what she wants to do. he just got out of a relationship himself and so both are kinda feeding off each other.
I mean she still has feelings for the EX, and i am sure always is, but i don't understand this obligation to stick with him to death do them part beucase they fvcked for 4 years. that to me is what i am hung up on. she doesn't owe him shiit. if she gained 100 pounds everyone would be telling him to kick her ass to the curb .
I was going to save this for another day but fvck it lol. I told the girl look, you can't bring him around for a month, at least give the guy some time to recover. and she was cool with that, but then last Saturday we had a little get together and he brings a "date" knowing good and damn well his ex would be there. and honestly she really could care less lol, she wasn't phased at all which is how i know lol she's been made this decision in her head. and he's all over her, so then her new BF calls and she asks can he come over and i'm like well ****, i guess if he is going to do that i can't just not let you do have your date over.. i tried to be fair. so he comes over and the ex BF just loses it lol. i mean goes all backstreet boys beta hwo can you do this **** to me, to the point i wanted to cry laughing. I knew exactly what was going to happen as soon as he showed up with the new girl but i couldn't stop the train wreck from happening.
Honestly, i put some thought into what i have against this guy when i was in the hospital.. and i do have something against him. i never liked him honestly i just tolerated him beucase he's my wife's best friend BF. and i couldn't pin point it until I had some time to think. it's not that he is broke. I have broke friends. I have quite a few broke friends lol. it's not even the fact that he doesn't have ambition. again, i have quite a few associates who never will do anything significant in life. doesn't mean we can't have other things that interest us. what gets me about this dude is that, he thinks the world owes him everything and he doesn't bring **** tot he table in return. he wants to get back at his ex by showing him eh has moved on yet can't get the fact that she HAS moved on lol and then throws a temper tantrum when she is not paying him any attention. and some here will say well see, see, that's why she stopped liking him, but what i am saying is, it's all one in the same. the lack of ambition is the same thing as his beta behavior now. i don't' see how people can't see that.
Buddha_Mind
Master Don Juan
I can understand that -- she moved herself forwards, her tastes and her future changed -- he was in the same place and never chose to grow.backbreaker said:
Sometimes I feel like that with this red-head at work -- sometimes these women grow intellectually, or want more, and the dudes they were with may have been great at age 22, but they can't provide what they want into mature womanhood.
I'm a broke-ass dude trying to create a business and follow my passions. In terms of $, I recognize this is a major hinderance with women--to not pretend it matters is naive. You think that hot red-head at work wants to come camp out in my tent?? Maybe for a night..but it is entirely un-realistic to expect any woman to want to share that lifestyle. This is why right now I'm trying to keep my head down and get things done so years from now I'll have greater options...
No woman wants to feel trapped at a dead-end. There's a difference between having the same goals and same interests and maybe money is not always abundant in the home. But this is a different case from what it sounds, this woman wasn't disillusioned from champagne and caviar visions, but rather she hit a wall in her relationship and this guy couldn't provide what she ultimately wanted. Was cheating the best way? Probably not. But I get what you're saying.
As men what's our solutions?
-- To push our own boundaries.
-- To never settle within our own selves.
-- To understand part of our role in the masculine is the shelter + security role -- if we can't provide either, there are some real problems there...
-- To understand financial well-being is a real factor in the well-being of a closely tied relationship (like LTRs or marriage) -- it inevitably is a major factor, how couldn't it be?
//EDIT --
Also, there's no doubt $$ is a huge issue. Those of you who are pressured for $ like myself, don't pretend that it doesn't effect your stress level and worry. It totally does and it saps you dry some days. To have that sort of hinderance mentally is undesirable. It prevents me from having the necessary energy to give good things to the person I'm with. There is no doubt a lack of Fundage$ will create stresses WITHIN a person, and inevitably that creates stresses OUTSIDE of that person...they have done many studies...marriages with $30-70K gross earnings have lower divorce rates...maybe there is commitment via survival (aka these women don't want to walk away and lose their lifestyle so they tough it out), but I also think that basically having more $ causes less stress, which makes it easier to be a happier, care-free individual, which clearly makes us the BEST VERSION OF OURSELVES that we could be. Myself, when struggling with $ I am certainly not "stress-free" or "care-free", and for a woman to be around that I am not even ready for. This is just me being honest with myself. Maybe this guy wasn't being honest. Or it took this woman until recently for herself to be really honest about what she wanted. There's nothing wrong with that--it's real.
Have western men created modern western woman?
In our pursuit of easier sex have we created all this whordom to get what we want.
Lets face it men pushed the envelope on various media to portray what women should be like, so that we could benefit in the short term. The end result is a trashy superficial easy lay. Problem is we have had a generation of single mums bringing up young men and filling their heads full of their $hit. Our whole culture seems to hinge on sex and status at the moment.
As for
In our pursuit of easier sex have we created all this whordom to get what we want.
Lets face it men pushed the envelope on various media to portray what women should be like, so that we could benefit in the short term. The end result is a trashy superficial easy lay. Problem is we have had a generation of single mums bringing up young men and filling their heads full of their $hit. Our whole culture seems to hinge on sex and status at the moment.
As for
Islam anyone
backbreaker
Master Don Juan
that is the point more than anything I"m trying to get across. lol it's not like this dude is a corporate exec or anything and he's making half a million a year. dude is I forgot how old, looks mid 20's, has a nice car has his own place and from what i understand it's a pretty decent spot he has his own loft. he's not rolling in tom ford suits or anything lol I mean, he is a normal probably above avg intelligence avg looking white male who works hard enough to where he will probably get somewhere in the company that they work in some day but he isn't close to there now. if i had to guess he's making like 75k a year.Buddha_Mind said:
lol she just wants to be a normal fvcking 26 year old woman and do normal 26 year old woman things, go out of town every once in a while, maybe go to a casino every once in a while, play dress up and go out every once in a while, have sex and not have to keep it down beucase there are other room mates, wear sexy undergarments around the house and not have to walk out the room fully dressed because there are 2 other dudes in the house. lol **** my son even ask me one day "daddy why we never go over aunt becky house (her name is becky)" she ain't go not house that's why little man. me and the misses want to go do something together and need to find a quick babysitter welp can't call her can't keep a kid over her BF's place. I really do not think she is a gold digger. I know gold diggers lol. I don't peg her as one. she just.. her BF just expected to skate by on "love" for his entire life. he never moved forward.
You pretty much nailed it Buddha Mind. It's fine if she was bored with the guy. It's fine if she felt like the guy couldn't support a lifestyle she wanted to have. It's fine if she realized that after four years together she couldn't really see them going the distance for another 40. It's fine if she came to the conclusion that there were probably other men out there that could do a better job of giving her what she wants, or that it was worth the risk of finding out. I have no problem with any of that. But you can't come here and backwards rationalize her behavior and defend and admire her choices and put the entire onus of the failure of this relationship and the cheating on the guy. He undoubtedly played a part and a role in this, but what I've read says very little about him and a lot more about her. And f the new guy with the BMW and condo let her move in to his place after such a short time, he's the chump, not the restaurant manager. She's already shown that she's a cheating wh*re, so I don't know what he would want with her beyond a casual plate.Buddha_Mind said:
If all women were this cold and calculating, relationships as we know it would not be worth undertaking. Whether you're busting your @ss or coasting, have a purpose and direction in your life or you're aimless, sooner or later you're gonna fall victim to the hypergamy guillotine because there is always a "bigger, better deal" out there somewhere...and I just don't see that happening on a wide scale when I observe my friends and family outside this website. Hypergamy definitely exists and I've seen it happen, but I think the incidence of it is overstated. Hell, nearly half the time, It's been the men that I've seen blow up and pull the plug on otherwise good relationships. I've seen female AFCs. These roles aren't always strictly limited to men or to women.
I've been looking around - the best figures I can find state that around 20 percent of men will cheat on their wives/girlfriends at some point, whereas around 15 percent of women will at some point cheat on their husbands/boyfriends. When you look at paternity, the most conservative figures show that between 8 to 15 percent of children haven't been fathered by the man who thinks he's their biological parent. I mean, 85 percent of women have more integrity than the chick in the OP, so why are we defending her conduct or calling it "not a problem," just the way it is according to the ancient law of the jungle or what you might see on Discovery or Animal Planet? Her lack of appreciation and dwindling investment in her relationship I have no problem with, that happens all the time, but it's idiotic to really hold her up as some kind of norm
Sometimes it's our attitude and perspective on relationships that need to change. I know in my past I've been guilty of pie in the sky, Disney-esque, love will conquer all naive notions about relationships and women. Sometimes it's our actions that need to change - we do a good job of wooing a woman and getting into a relationship and getting a commitment to be exclusive, and then we let our feet off the gas pedal and our relationship gradually crumbles from neglect, boredom and staleness. And sometimes it's our picker that needs to change - you can't make a prime rib steak out of hot dog meat, so why would you try to do anything other than a ONS or casual fling with a stripper, a single mom, somebody with substance abuse issues, somebody with an extremely high partner count, a recent divorcee, etc?
disgustipated
Master Don Juan
- Joined
- Jan 11, 2011
- Messages
- 509
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- 29
Damn so u let all that **** go down at your house and you're laughing at the guy?? Regardless of your rationalism, the guy just got his heart broke. Nice. Remember Bb, that was a version of you in the past and now you facilitate this drama. Stand up and he counted for the wtf you used to be, not saying you gotta white knight for this dude but how about not letting any situations like that develop.by putting your foot down? If this guy gets wise to you entertaining yourself off his problems, I hope he chin checks you. Losing my respect bro.