If you aren't going forward, you are giong backwards

[backbreaker]

holy **** I did not mean to cause a 14 page thread. i was going to start a new one but since this has taken a life of it's own I will respond here. I will read all this later.


I want to first and foremost sincerely apologize for my behavior over the last few weeks on this forum. I have been going through some... I'm not going to make any excuses form myself I've just been being an *******.

someone stated before that like, when you are really good at something and you take that persona on in other facets of your life you don't know how to really cut it off; that's kinda my issue. What works for me in the work environment, that's kinda how i just am, and frankly I don't want to be a 35 year old guy that everyone thinks is an *******. I don't like being considered an ******* period.

I understand the nature of human sociality to the point that, there are always going to be people who do not like you, and always people who do not like me for various reasons and there is nothing I can do about that, but I can control how I act and my emotions and my behavior which IMHO has become everything that I have preached not to be. I'm really not a mean spirited person, I'm actually pretty nice and warm heated person. I need to learn how to talk to people to get my point across in a non combative manner.

I especially apologize to Burroughs, we have our disagreements but you did not desrve the lashing I gave you, you're a cool dude. I was just being a jerk and for that I hope you accecpt my apology. I am not a person that really feels bad about a lot of **** I have done,.. but i felt bad about that.

If you cannot tell I am in an extremely peaceful and calm mood. Probably more so that I have ever been in my life, which is the reason I came back here. My thoughts have never been clearer in my life they are at this very moment.

See, a lot has happened in the backbreaker household since i posted here. The Girl that i posted about in the op has basically moved in with the new dude already, which is a juicy story that i will address later once things calm down but that's not what i came to post. No, probably the most significance thing happened to me a few days ago (Monday morning)

I had a seizure. And it was pretty scary and pretty hard core. We don't talk about every last thing here, it's not my first siezure, my second but the first one happened so long ago, the summer of my senior year of high school but that one was much worse than this one was i actually blacked out in that one, i didn't black out monday. My family, my mothers side has a history of them and one of my fav cousins actually died in a car accident while having one, ran smack dab into an 18 wheeler. I was with my son and he went and got my wife and told hat "dad is acting funny" and she called the paramedics and off to the hospital I went.

Now, that' snot what was significant. that's just some fvcked up bring chemistry **** that is unique to me. After talking with the doctors and quickly figuring out not only I have had a history of seizure's, but I was very stressed out before both, the first one i was working 3 jobs and was sleeping 3-4 hours a night and was at the waffle house and just went in the back room and started breakdancing lol and just went ape ****. anyway, my point being that once my wife heard this she put a holt to me doing any tying resembling work for the next 2 weeks, no if's and's or buts, and when she gets like this i have no chance, so it is what it is she's not fvcking around.

for the first time, in a very very long time.. beucase i wasn't working, beucase i was in the hospital from Monday to Wednesday afternoon (insurance fella's lol, get it, they coudl have let me ass go monday evening after giving me medication) and had none of my usual gadgets, my wife wouldn't even let me have one of my laptops beucase she assumed (rightfully so) I would try to work when she wasn't there. So, I mean, I'm just stuck there and i got to think. just me and my thoughts. and i did a lot of defragmentating, I did not realize just how cluttered my head/brain was, i was going 1000000 miles an hour but wasn't' going anywhere

I thought about a lot of things. I dd a lot of things. i actually called my dad Tuesday and talked to him for the first time in years. we were both shocked and I am glad i called. he's coming out to see his grandson next month. I called my mom, I thoguht about how I feel about AA and religion, I thoguht about what is my purpose in life, I thoguht about ex's and my place and role in their lives and theirs in mine, I thought about this very forum. **** I thought about the best strategy to beat monopoly; i came to the conclusion that you have to get the railroads first, then once you secure the railroads it's about a 90% chance you are going to win beucase you cut off everyone's streaming passive income. lol anyway I thought about a lot of ****. A lot of **** I did not even think I was going to think about.


But the thought that I had more than all is that at 29, while i hae had some, i suppose you can call it success at life, when I look in the mirror, I do not like the person I see. I see a spiteful, bitter, angry at the world chip on his shoulder guy and i don't want to be that guy anymore. I've had my issues but no more than anyone else and I have no reason to be bitter or mad at anyone, yet I'm mad at everyone. I 'm mad at my dad i'm mad at my mom i'm mad at my grand mom i'm mad at people here i'm mad at ex'es. **** you just can't be mad at everyone. lol i mean you know when you come here and we say that the lowest common denomoitaor (fvck it lol) between ll your ex's and you is you? well **** everyone i know just isn't evil lol. maybe i play a part in all that.

so i buried a **** load of hatchets the last 3 days. and i must say I feel fvcking great. I talked to my grand mom and she talked to her grandson for the first time, she was tickled pink. caught up with my dad seing what he's doing. i called the girl that bouirght me here, we still keep in touch and while i don't hate her, i always had an issue with how she treated me int he past and we finally cleared the air yesterday. and she cares about me, and was scared ****less when i told her i was in the hospital.. she just wasn't in love with me and that's something i can accept today. and **** i wasn't in love with her truth be told i just wanted her to be in love with me because of my vanity. we aren't a match lol whatsoever.

but my point is, alot of my bitterness I have to say comes from this place. do not misunderstand what I am saying, I am not saying that the forum is full of bitter people. I think this forum has great men here. what i am trying to say is, the forum, rather it tries to intentionally or not, kinda teaches bitterness and spiteful ness. (continued)

 

[backbreaker]

I mean, and i put about 4 hours of thought into this.. what do we say, we come here to get women... but that's not what we really come here for. we come here to be happy. No one comes here "yeah man i'm fvcking kicking ass in life and taking names now let's see how to get women" no men coming here, wanting women, thinking that the ability to get a woman will make them happy. And coming here, i could see how one could think that **** i did. if you don't have something and you see something you want you tie that to being happy.

and here is the key part; because we tie being happy to getting women, we exclude just about everything else, that actually was making us happy, basically putting all of our eggs in one basket.

what i mean is, for instance, there was a post here right before i left about a guy who had a girl invite him to go to universal studios with her and some friends. the guy was so worried about getting laid from the girl he did not step back and realize, that he's freaking going to universal studios with friends.

and that's what this forum does to us, intentioanlly or uninteinally. when i was single i went on about 100 first dates, maybe mroe maybe less but a lot and that's a good est. honestly, at the very least, 1/3rd of them i had no real interest in the girl i just did beucase i could. she had nice legs or pretty feet or some **** lol. and i thought that going on dates with girls is what is going to make me happy. and amek no mistake, it's better than not having the abilgty to but, that's not what makes me happy or made me happy. i know that now.

my point being is that we boil every thing down to sex and not getting fvcked over. that's what this forum is about in a nutshell. sex and not getting fvcked over.and make no mistake, **** load of practical advice. but, and I think this is what iw as trying to say in my last post before i left, but i can say so much more clearer now.. there is more to being happy in life than getting laid and not getting screwed over. those 2 things aren't going to make you a happy person. so you are 40 years old you have sex every once in a while and you haven't gotten jipped by some BPD girl taking half your ****, but are you really happier that he guyt hat was head over heels in love with his wife for 4 years before they split? i don't know that you are. he experienced a level of happiness that you are limited yourself to experiencing.

just, the look on my wife's face when she saw me told me everything i needed to know. itw as like she was dying. the first day i was in the hospital she looked over at me and told me i love you so much, i don't know what i would do if something happened to you, and i knew she meant just that.. that's something that you aren't going to get from your 2nd plate lol. my son being scared that his dad was sick, i am not the best dad on earth, i'm not horrible but i can be and will be better, but that told me the little man loves his daddy.


Falling in love responsibly


this is what i think the biggest issue on this forum or in this section of this forum is.

see, falling in love is like drinking alcohol. This forum seems to link AFCism to falling in love but i don't' think falling in love is AFC at all, I believe it's an experience a man should be lucky to have. Calling Falling in love an AFCism is like calling all people who drink at all alcoholics. I think the problem with the AFC is he falls in love with every girl that looks at him which is what i did and when I came here, you get told falling in love bad. no it's not. it's that you don't know how to fall in love responsibly.

and that is what I am trying to get across to some pepole... like, if you come here to this forum, and you take away that okay, don't trust women, don't fall in love, don't get married, that's like reading Animal Farm and coming away with the conclusion that you can't trust pigs lol. that's not what you are supposed to take away from this forum.

What I believe you are supposed to take away, all this forum, the rules, the dating, the plates, the everything, are supposed to be used as a filter to find the woman that you can allow yourself to fall in love with, instead of just falling in love with X girl beucase you went on 3 dates and she gave you a blow job and told you she loves you. And that is what some guys do not get.. my wife isn't going to do a lot of the things that bat **** crazy stupid women do beucase.. (drumroll) she's not bat **** crazy or stupid and she actually loves me for me and i know this beucase (drumroll) I followed the rules to this forum to a T. my wife has been vetted better than some presidents lol. the woman is fvcking crazy about me and I am crazy about her.

I feel bad for men who will never experience what my wife and I have. last night when i got home we just sat up and i put my head on her lap and we shared a bowl of ice cream and watched horse racing all night long and had the time of our lives it was like a first date all over again.. 4 years of dating/marriage. I'm not going to say she doesn't care about what i bring tot he table but she cares about me and my well being more.

anyway, that's all i got lol. i need to get some rest.

 

[AW1983]

Also, I'd like to chime in on BB's alleged fraud due to the "evidence" you guys have unearthed.

I am a business owner as well. I will tell you right now that if you a ratio of 50 extremely satisfied customers to 1 dissatisfied, here is what usually happens: The 50 satisfied people are pleased with your service and move on with their lives. They often aren't motivated to jump online and write a whole page on 10 different sites about how great your service is.

However...that one dissatisfied customer will often as not do everything in their power to discredit you and tell everyone they know (offline or on) about how sh!tty your business is, etc, etc.

This something that anyone who has actually run a business knows to be true.

EDIT: ^Well speak of the devil, haha. Welcome back man, glad you're alright.

 

[cordoncordon]

BB, I read the jist of what you wrote (to be honest I kinda lost focus there after a while-it was quite long) but I hope that this incident sets on on the right track towards inner happiness. And yes I could always tell you were angry and had chip on your shoulder for whatever reason. Never could understand why other than just being possibly narsacistic.

Anyway, best of luck in trying to get back on track, both personally and with your business-whatever those problems are.

 

[ThunderMaverick]

Backbreaker, sorry about what's happened to you in the past few days. Although if you feel it's helped you in any way I'm happy for you.

Welcome back.



Edit: I also have to apologize for my anger towards you in this thread. It always irks me to feel like I'm being looked down on by "better men" and I guess I took you for one of those guys. I was wrong. There are more sides to people than we think, and everyone has their own issues to figure out.


Hope you feel better.

 

[backbreaker]

Also, I'd like to chime in on BB's alleged fraud due to the "evidence" you guys have unearthed.

I am a business owner as well. I will tell you right now that if you a ratio of 50 extremely satisfied customers to 1 dissatisfied, here is what usually happens: The 50 satisfied people are pleased with your service and move on with their lives. They often aren't motivated to jump online and write a whole page on 10 different sites about how great your service is.

However...that one dissatisfied customer will often as not do everything in their power to discredit you and tell everyone they know (offline or on) about how sh!tty your business is, etc, etc.

This something that anyone who has actually run a business knows to be true.

EDIT: ^Well speak of the devil, haha. Welcome back man, glad you're alright.

I do not like to talk about my business ventures here beucase they have nothing to do with women but **** kjnowing how i act here shoudl telly ou all you need to know about how i deal with clients. i don't put up with bull **** from clients and if you are going to act an ass you can fvck off. and you are correct, in this line of business all it takes is one bad apple, one client saying he is going to use the BBB to get you to do what you want him to do


**** i can show you better than i can tell you. and this is the first and only time i am going to do this. i haven't even read the last 14 pages i dont' know what the F is going on

(my real life name is Brandon, technically it's not that's my birth name i changed my name in 2005 to something totally different beucase there was someone who was born the same day and had the exact same first and last name as me that got me trouble every time i pulled over but for business reasons i still go by this name)

I got a client. client is a graphic guy, paid us to do some programming. we did it, the client has not paid for the end result. now the client is trying to make it sound like, we are harassing him and that we did not do what is asked, and is even went so far to call the BBB yet when he emails me he ackowleges that he owes money and provides reasons why he can't pay and even wants more work done

this is what he emails me (just download the pictures)

https://rapidshare.com/files/3044110025/scott1.bmp
https://rapidshare.com/files/3513952993/scott2.png
https://rapidshare.com/files/1512773406/scott3.png


this is what he emails the BBB

https://rapidshare.com/files/811920891/danielle.png


lol not only is he lying through his teeth, he's going on the offensive to make me look like the bad guy when he knows he fvcked up. he just doesn't have the money to pay and to get the entire thing crushed and to get me to leave him alone he tries to say I am harassing him and that the work was never done (yet has problem paying for full work 100% in advance and even states twice in the emails that he has to get the rest of the info to us to finish.) and keep in mind this site was done at the end of may it's august.

so yeah,b elieve none of what you hear and half of what you see. i got smart about a year ago and now i just take written testimnonals from clients and take snap shots of them. this is how backbreaker normallyr olles

http://i781.photobucket.com/albums/yy99/ghostzapper/jasonfeedback.png
http://i781.photobucket.com/albums/yy99/ghostzapper/3-1.jpg
http://i781.photobucket.com/albums/yy99/ghostzapper/2-2.jpg
http://i781.photobucket.com/albums/yy99/ghostzapper/stevenfeedbacjk.jpg
http://i781.photobucket.com/albums/yy99/ghostzapper/johnconfirmation.jpg
http://i781.photobucket.com/albums/yy99/ghostzapper/1-1.jpg

and i have about 50 of those. lol i've even ahd graphic guys in the past try to lie to clients when i used them as references and said trhey were not happy wtih the work and tried to upsell their work, so i stringliy just do it like that now.

but anyway, that's that. don't like to talk business here but you are going to be sad if you are trying to paint me as some type of fraud. **** i am in a great mood here is some of our work. knock yourself out. just to show you i'm not pulling the **** off the internet i will even givey ou admin access.

we code and design all this in house

http://adyok.com/pivonote (Custom Graphic Design, Social Networking, PHP/MySQL)
http://adyok.com/pivonote/admin
username: admin

http://adyok.com/craft/ (Graphic Design, PHP/MySQL, Ecommerce)
http://adyok.com/craft/admin
username: admin
password: admin

http://adyok.com/17181/intro (Graphic Design, Adult, PHP/MySQL, Ecommerce)
http://adyok.com/17181/admin-panel
username: admin
password

lol that's on our demo sever don't bother asking for a pw

http://adyok.com/18005/ (Graphic Design, Adult, PHP/MySQL, Ecommerce)
http://adyok.com/18005/admin-panel
username: admin
password: admin

http://adyok.com/golf/ (Custom Graphic Design, Content Management System, PHP/MySQL)
http://adyok.com/golf/admin-panel
username: admin
password: admin

this is the site from the dude above who is complainign to the BBB.

http://adyok.com/danielle/ (Ecommerce, PHP/MySQL)
http://adyok.com/danielle/admin-panel
username: admin
password: admin

if htat's not a done site i don't know what is. the only thing the site does not have is the ecommerce hookup and that's beucase the client wont' give it to us, then every time we ask for payment he will say he will pay when it's done. chicken and egg

http://adyok.com/tsn (Graphic Design, PHP/MySQL)
http://adyok.com/tsn/admin-panel
username: admin
password: admin


this is what we are working on now, about 40% done

http://adyok.com/cutie/
http://adyok.com/cutie/admin-panel
username: admin
password: admin

this as well

http://brandicontact.com/bret/
http://brandicontact.com/bret/admin-panel
username: admin
password: admin

the above is about 90% done i believe. should be done in the next few days. all 100% designed and programmed in house.

and there is much more but i'm tired.

anyway, the point is if you don't or haven't ran a business, you seriously have no idea. it's like guy's who think all women are kind and never lie and are so sweet. most clients are looking for any way possible to get over on you and have zero qualms lying, cheating or stealing to do so.

ps- warrior when / if you can do design work like the 17181 job or the pivot note job or the 18005 job holla at ya boy. we dont' do a **** load of work, but the work we do is top class. i don't put my name on anything that is ****y or half assed.

 

[st_99]

well, you gotta give BB credit, he is thorough! you can stop the hate now. lol.

 

[backbreaker]

well, you gotta give BB credit, he is thorough! you can stop the hate now. lol.

i'm the most meticulous motherfvcker you will ever meet lol. my actual proposals are about 30 pages long. the number one reason i lose clients is beucase half of them will say " i'm not reading all this ****"

but that's just how i tick. if i lose a client it's not because they don't think we can do the job or we don't know what we are talking about. it weeds out the people who are serious and who aren't' and the people i work well with and who i don't.

 

[betheman]

Good to see you back BB

 

[typical]

Your theories here apply to a subset of women who have a propensity toward a hypergamous paradigm, whether by cultural infuence or breeding.

If men caved to their instictual drives the world would be even more chaotic than it already is. Most men understand that to actualize oneself he must make decisions that are contrary to those drives. He must beat his own instinct into submission, so-to-speak.

There was a time not too long ago when the same (although on a different scale) was expected of women. And by-and-large they were capable of a much higher sense of values back then. We value the rule of law because we are moral agents, unlike animals and inanimate objects.

What I'm saying in a nutshell is: "Instincts, my ass." Instincts are a prompt, not a compulsion.

If I am called, as a man, to rise above my base instincts to acheive a higher purpose in society, the same is to be expected of women. What we are witnessing in Western society is not so much caving in to instinctual compulsion as it is the result of media brainwashing. The powers that be know this, and they have used the media to great effect. A direct attempt to dismantle society by attacking the man is fraught with difficulties and the promise of vigorous resistance. To destroy the man, you destroy the woman, the weaker one who is prone to deception.

First of all welcome back BB. Secondly its great to see rollo posting in a thread again. I haven't read all of the posts in this thread just skimmed through to the most interesting.

So onto this primal instincts and honor/intergrity debate, its there has always been there and will always be there. An example of this is when two fighters step inside the cage and have a full on war with each other with certain rules put in place that are determined to create more safety for the fighters and to honor the fighters to fight as "REAL MAN SHOULD" .... (enter you honer integrity comment here) .....

Now when you step into that cage you damn well know that you are choosing this fate no one forced you its your freewill at play here, to win you have to train hard use a bit of luck and use your primal instinct of "fight or flight". You already chose to fight now it's either win or lose ..... life or death, nothing more nothing less. At the end the best fighter with a bit of added luck and judges decisions wins they shake hands hug whatever but there is mutual respect between both men as they had the balls to do what few other men have.

This is directly the same as what our forefathers did when we were hunter gatherer's .... the passing from a child to manhood initiation ceremonies the university frat initiations the military first year initiations all have these touch's of honor and integrity mixed in with a bit of stupidity for sh!ts and giggles. But when out hunting or out in the field of duty its back to relying on our primal survival instincts.

This I believe is somewhat related to testosterone levels in all males in the human population (**** I sound like my bio prof now).

The same can not be said about women, their levels of testosterone are not as high, their primal instincts are not one of "stand up and take the challenge head one", its one of "live to fight another day", "find a easier safer path to make getting food and rearing children easier"

Now to cut to the chase women don't play by the same rules as we men play by they never have and never will and you can see the basis of hypergamy there in our primal roots as hunter gatherer's. It is not a conscious decision its subconscious it will always be there. No matter what you say or think it will always be there.

Also men have never beaten down their primal instincts our instincts of exploring and conquering have created this world don't forget that.

So what can you do ? You have to accept things for the way they are and always keep your guard up, plan everything as a worst outcome situation. Live you life the way you want to and let women enter and leave while you make sure you get your things done.

 

[hithard]

but my point is, alot of my bitterness I have to say comes from this place. do not misunderstand what I am saying, I am not saying that the forum is full of bitter people. I think this forum has great men here. what i am trying to say is, the forum, rather it tries to intentionally or not, kinda teaches bitterness and spiteful ness. (continued)

I probably use this site two weeks to a month every year or less depending. Any longer and I think there is a danger of it fuc*king up your RL game.

I found previously that longer exposures to this forum tended to screw with my relationships or plates. Must have been a negative attitude/mental shift? I'm not sure. Perhaps it was just a case of one step back and two steps forward, or just information overload. Happened like clockwork though.

I mainly just brush up and keep myself in check. Plus there are some funny arse threads, it's also good to see some of the older posters still around.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Maybe if you use bigger words I will understand better.

Quiet woman! Men are speaking.

 

[Atom Smasher]

Step away from the pulpit for a minute. The very fact that you're even aware of some imbalance, moral or otherwise, in the 'natural order of things' only proves that ALL women are hypergamous. It's not a subset of women who've reengineered our social norms towards a hypergamous agenda for the past century. All women are hardwired for hypergamy, the context may change between the slut and the virgin, but trust, they all run the same subroutine.

You may believe that your virgin bride chose you from the masses of 'lesser men' because she had some intrinsic, ephemeral appreciation for your virtuousness, but the truth is she chose you because you best fit her definition of her ideal of hypergamy. You're were what she thought was the best she could do with her understanding at the time.

Optimizing hypergamy is the underlying, ambient theme behind every social redefinition regarding gender since the sexual revolution. Hypergamy has always been there, only recently has it been given total unrestricted influence in society.

You have your pulpit, I have mine. Get it?

Amen.

You use the phrase, "total unrestricted infuence" that has been given. This implies that previously there were forces in place that constrained the tendency. My point is that there always were, and still are (to a much lesser degree) women who fall in love with men who in society's eyes (her peers' eyes) are lower in status to her. In fact, that man is perceived by her to be higher value than she. That is what is universal. A women must, on an individual basis, perceive a man to be higher value than she in order to feel fulfilled.

He might have a lowly job (or no job, for that matter), but in her economy he has value and he scratches her where she itches. There are many women (albeit the minority and the number is dwindling due to mass media influence) who place their concept of "love" over a man's earning power or even potential.

My point all along is that the hypergamous tendency is certainly hard-wired in to a degree, but it has been glorified and amplified by the media in subtle ways. Women are nothing more than clay in the hands of inluential entities.

Make no mistake... If I want to convince any woman that the sky is in fact pink with purple polka-dots, I can do so given enough time. They are that mallable. The media knows this and runs with it to the bank.

It is the aggressive, loud, vocal feminists who have taken a general tendency toward hypergamy and pushed it to the forefront of women's consciousness. A subset of the female population who had access to the media spread their diseased thinking to the masses.

You're young enough, Rollo, to not have been around when things were quite different. You were just a baby in diapers at the beginning of the massive paradigm shift. In my childhood the world was a very different place when it came to women, and your current theory of universal hypergamous drives could not have been even posited at that time because of the significant number of exceptions.

We are probably in disagreement about the degree of the general premise, rather than whether or not the phenomenon exists, but don't let my disagreement with you get you upset. Your "pulpit" comment indicates some hurt feelings or anger at being challenged, but I wouldn't take that so personally or feel all that threatened by it.

 

[backbreaker]

I probably use this site two weeks to a month every year or less depending. Any longer and I think there is a danger of it fuc*king up your RL game.

I found previously that longer exposures to this forum tended to screw with my relationships or plates. Must have been a negative attitude/mental shift? I'm not sure. Perhaps it was just a case of one step back and two steps forward, or just information overload. Happened like clockwork though.

I mainly just brush up and keep myself in check. Plus there are some funny arse threads, it's also good to see some of the older posters still around.

probably something i need to consider

and what is scary is that you don't' notice it because it's so gradual.

it's kinda how i feel about AA in the sense that, i don't have the desire to use anymore but at the same time, my story is kinda unique and it relates to a very specific persont hat not a lot of people in AA can relate to. they go to a meeting they don't see anyone like me and say well i'm not an addict and go right back out. kinda how i feel about this site in the sense i like to help and there aren't too many black guys here who aren't poor who have had pretty good success with women outside their race.

It exists in all women, but hypergamy is subject to the placebo effect. See Atom Smasher's post. It's not a program to be feared, but a tool to be embraced by men. There is too much scare-mongering over hypergamy in the community and not enough recognition of its advantages for men. Game is 100% predicated on the hypergamous nature of women. Painting it as a boogeyman will only cause the best of men to throw up their arms and say, "Well, that's hypergamy! What can you do?" anytime they lose a broad.

I think this is the biggest part of the pill that most men can't swallow. you can get men to lose a lot of the basic AFC stuff like stop giving attention and go on action dates and stuff like that but very few men want to give up the idea that women love them beucase they are special/unique from everyone else.

 

[Atom Smasher]

I agree, samspade. If I'm understanding you correctly (and please correct me if I'm wrong), we men can fairly easily paint a picture of a higher "class" (for lack of a better word) by working on projected confidence, wearing clothing that conveys self-respect, taking care of our environment (clean house, clean car, etc.), and any other affectation that conveys value and self-respect.

I may well be reading to far into your points, but I'm just riffing off them here.

In another thread I just quoted William Shakespeare:

"Assume a virtue if you have it not."

And you are correct in keeping it simple. Simple, confident conversation while conveying that you own the place and the time seems to work like magic for me. When I'm not in that frame, I crash and burn. When in, I can't fail.

I'll be writing a thread soon about how to convey that you are master of time itself, something that doesn't get enough attention around here.

Back to the original subject, of course it is only natural that a women would want to better herself and find the best option for herself. I just don't think that hypergamy rules with such an iron hand that other factors don't come into play. It's there, but in vastly varying degrees and it can be fairly easily modified by the cunning man.

In fact, a man who is on the ball can recognize that in looks or social status he is out of her league, and still get her by successfully amplifying other aspects of his character in order to eclipse any perceived shortcomings.

It's all a matter of finding out where she itches and than scratching that itch. That's historically how seemingly lowly men have hooked and landed the beautiful woman who was supposedly out of his league. It is much, much harder to do this these days due to women's sense of entitlement, but I actually do it all the time and if I can do it anybody can.

Figure out her values (where she itches) and move in for the killer scratch at just the righ moment. This is the secret to success with women who are, by appearances, out of your league. In actual fact, NO woman is out of your league because every last one is an emotional mess, even the seemingly confident ones.

Well, I readily accept blame for my part in this, "The Incredible Morphing Thread".

 

[backbreaker]

I agree, samspade. If I'm understanding you correctly (and please correct me if I'm wrong), we men can fairly easily paint a picture of a higher "class" (for lack of a better word) by working on projected confidence, wearing clothing that conveys self-respect, taking care of our environment (clean house, clean car, etc.), and any other affectation that conveys value and self-respect.

I may well be reading to far into your points, but I'm just riffing off them here.

In another thread I just quoted William Shakespeare:

"Assume a virtue if you have it not."

And you are correct in keeping it simple. Simple, confident conversation while conveying that you own the place and the time seems to work like magic for me. When I'm not in that frame, I crash and burn. When in, I can't fail.

I'll be writing a thread soon about how to convey that you are master of time itself, something that doesn't get enough attention around here.

Back to the original subject, of course it is only natural that a women would want to better herself and find the best option for herself. I just don't think that hypergamy rules with such an iron hand that other factors don't come into play. It's there, but in vastly varying degrees and it can be fairly easily modified by the cunning man.

In fact, a man who is on the ball can recognize that in looks or social status he is out of her league, and still get her by successfully amplifying other aspects of his character in order to eclipse any perceived shortcomings.

It's all a matter of finding out where she itches and than scratching that itch. That's historically how seemingly lowly men have hooked and landed the beautiful woman who was supposedly out of his league. It is much, much harder to do this these days due to women's sense of entitlement, but I actually do it all the time and if I can do it anybody can.

Figure out her values (where she itches) and move in for the killer scratch at just the righ moment. This is the secret to success with women who are, by appearances, out of your league. In actual fact, NO woman is out of your league because every last one is an emotional mess, even the seemingly confident ones.

Well, I readily accept blame for my part in this, "The Incredible Morphing Thread".

i think you two are actaully saying the same thing.

i think what samspade is trying to say is that, even under your scenerio it's hypergamy that is making her chose man B over man A, it's just that her percieved hypergamy puts man B on top of man A.

it's just like for instance my wife, i'm a good looking dude but i'm no the best looking man alive. i've seen ictures of her ex's they arent' ugly at all. and while i make very good money and we live a very comfortable life style i'm not super duper rich and i'm sure she has had men with more means interested in her inf act i know she has. but the facdt that we share the same passion for horse racing, the fact that i not only don't ***** but encourager her to go to the track the fact that i don't give her any grief over what she likes and even wish to share it with her, that puts me ahead of a lot of guys she dated.

it's how like, my mother would date a guy who does not have as much money as another guy but is seriously more religious beucase to my mother that is the top of her hypergamy chain.

which is why i am sucha fan of niche dating. niche dating, or finding an interest and getting women who share that interest, you are shaking up what is concerned the natrual hypergamy tree. you might not normally get what is considered an HB8.5 but you could get one if you both shared say a passion for, snorkerling or marine wild life or something.

like you ever watch these marine/ocean documentaries, it's like every other one there is some hb 8 brit or aussie chick running around diving nad **** and you know that's not the girl you are going to meet in starbucks. and i would bet dollars to doughnuts you would look at her man and you would be like WTF?

 

[Atom Smasher]

So that's why the ocean smells so fishy!

I guess I tend to individualize the concept more than most. I'm always saying that it's not really possible to be universally attractive to women, but only to a niche that responds to the particular characteristics that a man converys.

While all men respond to certain affectations of beauty, we know there is no analogue with men. The closest analogue is probably clothing and grooming, but even that is not so universal with women's varying tastes.

I think your mom is a good example. According to her values, a highly religious man is at the top of her hypergamy chain. I view it, though, that this is the area where she perceives that he posseses more value than she does in this area. In my view it's less universal as "hypergamy" and more individual as her looking for a man to provide value where she perceives her own shortcomings.

Women love confidence because they have none. They love strength because they have little. They love security because they are weak and easy prey to predators. They love a man who takes responsibility because they are mostly incapable of taking responsibility. That's all universal stuff. We're always attracted to that which we don't have ourselves. So for example, if a woman loves music but can't sing a tune, and she meets up with a guy who has mastered his instrument, it will be impossible for her not to be attracted.

On individual bases like these, it seems to me that it's not so much hypergamy at work as it is that a man has displayed value where she is lacking in value, on a more individual basis.

Anyway, welcome back.

 

[ebracer05]

Problem is, when you see so many lives destroyed by it, and entire justice systems dedicated towards propogating it, law after law coming forth to protect it and deny men the ability to walk away from it, it is very hard to not politicize it.

I mean, I am one callous son of a b1tch. I am arguably one of the most selfish self-centered bastards on this board, but I can't abide watching $hit like this go down without lifting a finger, or knowing the kind of world my son could grow up in if I do nothing to fix it.

I mean, what if we were in 1940 germany and recognized anti-semitism for what it was and just said "use it to your advantage"?

The only difference being, that was the overt destruction of people and their lives. What we have here is something that destroys lives without the act of taking the life. But at the same time it is so insidiously covert that people have no idea how much it surrounds them, enslaves them and hurts them.

How can anyone walk away from that and not want to help people? Or not want to rail against such an unjust setup?

What if it were you that was being ground up by the misandric entity that dominates the west today? What would you think of people who just walked on by and didn't want to lift a finger to help?

Ideas like this are the reason why I started off my college education studying law. You may be callus Danger, but after my experiences in the legal field, I am cynical. I don't necessarily think either are optimal are virtuous, but they are what they are.

I personally think you are a genius and masterful writer... there are not many Danger's on this board. And I totally agree with everything you said in this entry. But I don't think there's much you, I, or anyone else can do about it.

We are not talking about the transformation necessary to turn an AFC in to a DJ. That's hard enough but is possible. We're talking about changing ideals that have been disseminated among the general population, and at least in general, are accepted and part of the schema people develop their worldview through. Now what are you going to do about that?

It's even worse than that because it's one thing for the general population to believe something and it's another thing when there is statutory law and case law behind the ideas, giving them not only more legitimacy in the minds of the masses, but giving them political and legal legitimacy. You can run a presidential campaign, at least in the United States (I'm not sure where you're from), with a major component of your platform on "women's rights" and "women's issues". Think about how much money interest groups and PAC's like NOW, Planned Parenthood, and others have to dish out to whatever candidate is going to best further their interests.

A lot of these organizations also have some sort of identification, funding, and/or protection in statutory law too. Do you have any idea how much money Planned Parenthood gets from the federal government every year?? I think it's a total sham when politicians pander to the lower class by complaining about the pithy wages they make and the high levels of unemployment (which really, are more a function of inherent personal qualities like ambition and decisions) while they're shelling out literally 10's and sometimes 100's of millions of dollars to these groups!

So even if you could do something to radically redirect the message the entire media is sending people (TV, radio, magazines, most of the internet, books, everything, even church) and affect a massive change in the population, you would still have to contend with existing law and even more importantly, case law. Case law in the United States is where most of this paternity sh*t comes from in family law (ie, divorce cases) and what entitles a woman to have an abortion without the consent of the man who impregnated her. Sometimes the case law gets reinforced with law, but most of it is case law.

This is more of a rant I think than it is a comment. I've become so burned out and apathetic towards the political system I honestly don't believe anyone who is not incredibly rich, who has the right last name, or who has the right parents has the agency to affect any real change. This stuff is nice to prognosticate about but what are you going to do with it? When a good number of men in society don't even realize their rights have been f*cked with, that's a serious problem.

 

[betheman]

and people wonder why its referred to as 'the matrix' !

 

[backbreaker]

I can understand and even sympthize with danger's POV, i would even go so far as to say Sampade and rollo could as well, but just because I agree it's wrong, and doesn't mean it's not the truth. Also once you understand it, you can use it to at the very least, not work against you as much as possible. In other words, understanding the difference between, real love and a woman trying to find a seat once the musical chair music stops.

I mean ****, what is honestly the alternative? pretend it doesn't exist and make your quest out for the true girl who "loves you for you" and lie to yourself about what is going on and then come back here crying when she makes decisions that are in her best long term interest? that's no way to live.

putting it in context of my OP, the girl wanted the guy that in her mind and her changed views, made more sense for her life.

I mean put in the context of my business, now that I have shared some of my personal information, look at the client who is jsut lying about what he did and did not get from me.. he wants what is in his best interest no more no less than a man who is dating wants what is his and no more no less than a woman who is picking a LTR wants what's in hers. this client wants to be able to not be held accountable for his actions and wants to not pay the balance owed, event hough he clearly wanted the services and even though he clearly approves of the services to the point where he wanted to keep our business relationship going by providing us with new jobs. But at the end of the day, people want what they want and will use whatever means, rightfully or wrongfully to justify what they want. That's why I'm not even mad at him, i get it. Nothing personal against me. People will always, always, do what's in their best interest. Once you can wrap your head around that one fact, it makes everything else so much easier to understand and accept.

I don't understand the backlash against it int he sexual marketplace context. What do you honestly want to happen? it's like men want women to possess values that most men don't even posses. i'm not going to settle for an overweight boring woman why should a woman settle for someone she deems lesser value if she has better options? i don't get it.