I don't know whether to laugh or cry.....

[reset]

You guys see different, honestly, because I believe it's the aspects of humanity in women that you are viewing negative. For example, you go up to a woman to start a conversation and the woman in particular gives off vibes of being "stuck up" to YOU, when in actuality the woman could be shy as hell and just don't know what to say.

Damn this happened to me, a chick who works in a building next to mine. Super hot, never even considered talking to her in the past, and she always seemed cold to me. One day I just passed her and finally looked her in the eye and smiled and said hello and her whole face lit up. And the next day I saw her and she was even cooler to me.

And I thought, "What the hell? She seems like an ok chick. Why did I think she was stuck up?"

Because it was my own insecurity being reflected back to me. It was unfathomable for me to think a super hot chick could be anything other than rude and stuck up. But I was wrong. Wouldn't be the first time. May have been one of the first times I realized hot chicks are just people and aren't "above me" just because of their looks.

Carry on.

 

[ThunderMaverick]

Coming to STR8's defense about the whole male/female disadvantage, I think Gerard is wrong on saying society treats women as "sex objects". No, my friend. They're now called "sex symbols". Strippers and pornstars are now empowered. Cosmo has dozens upon dozens of advertisements glorifying the latest clothes and new makeup. They also focus highly on the "perfect woman" with the perfect shape.

Women are FOOLED into thinking this is power when all it is doing is giving them false hope. They look into the mirror and what they see isn't "perfect". What they see isn't Jessica Alba and they hate that. They hate what they see because they aren't expected to have blemishes or low cheek bones. They hate themselves...all the while putting on their make up and hiking the skirt to use themselves as weapons...all in the very same mirror mind you!!

Edit: I was going to defend him also when some people said that he's so into his looks, but Jokerr beat me to it.

Iqqi shouldn't have even brought that up. I don't know why she did since she's in no position to speak. You're silly sometimes.

 

[iqqi]

Iqqi shouldn't have even brought that up. I don't know why she did since she's in no position to speak. You're silly sometimes.

Not sure what you mean by that. I am in position to speak, when STR8UP posts his pics, and he happens to NOT be good looking like he keeps saying. He keeps harping on and on and on about what all a woman has to be for him, and one of those things is HOT, but he himself isn't bringing that particular trait to the table. But he thinks he is! And I really think that might be part of the problem. He is acting like he is the sh!t and b!tches aint sh!t, he has unrealistic ideas about them and himself.

It might seem mean of me to point it out, I only did it once in the thread... But I really think it could be part of the problem. If he is going to be living in such a superficial world, then he needs to know he ain't Ken, and won't be pulling no Barbies.

Besides all that, men are no more victims than women are. Both genders have "disadvantages" when it comes to dealing with the opposite sex. To argue who has more would just be futile, especially here on this site.

And to keep saying that every intelligent opposing argument "must be iqqi", is a compliment, Keto. I hardly have to speak because Gerard is doing such a great job of poking holes in the seriously flawed thinking of this thread.

I'ma buy him a drink! Drinks on iqqi!

 

[reset]

I don't think Gerard would make fun of a guy's looks who he's trying to motivate. I can't speak for him but MEN who are cool don't do that to each other.

 

[STR8UP]

Not sure what you mean by that. I am in position to speak, when STR8UP posts his pics, and he happens to NOT be good looking like he keeps saying. He keeps harping on and on and on about what all a woman has to be for him, and one of those things is HOT, but he himself isn't bringing that particular trait to the table. But he thinks he is! And I really think that might be part of the problem. He is acting like he is the sh!t and b!tches aint sh!t, he has unrealistic ideas about them and himself.

Again, your opinion means nothing to me. You haven't met me in person, and I doubt I would have been able to get the quality of pu$$y I have gotten if I were unattractive. What baffles me the most though, is:

1) This post has nothing to do with looks.

2) I never claimed to be "HOT" and I never claimed to be looking for Miss Universe.

Where you people get this stuff I have no idea.

 

[ketostix]

Not sure what you mean by that. I am in position to speak, when STR8UP posts his pics, and he happens to NOT be good looking like he keeps saying. He keeps harping on and on and on about what all a woman has to be for him, and one of those things is HOT, but he himself isn't bringing that particular trait to the table. But he thinks he is! And I really think that might be part of the problem. He is acting like he is the sh!t and b!tches aint sh!t, he has unrealistic ideas about them and himself.

It might seem mean of me to point it out, I only did it once in the thread... But I really think it could be part of the problem. If he is going to be living in such a superficial world, then he needs to know he ain't Ken, and won't be pulling no Barbies.

Aren't you the same person who's said that you're hot and you made threads about hooking up with "ugly" guys? Then you debated against guys who said looks do matter. Now, looks like you're doing a 180 just to take a jab at str8up.

Besides all that, men are no more victims than women are. Both genders have "disadvantages" when it comes to dealing with the opposite sex. To argue who has more would just be futile, especially here on this site.

An example of a ridiculous statement with nothing to support it.

 

[DavenJuan]

since everyone else seems to be applying their two sense, i will gladly comply..


iq ....i have never seen anythong thread by str8 that implies that he is looking for "hotness" soley in a female. of course we would expect some form of physical attraction, but i really find it hard to believe that str8 is that superficial.

gerard. i am not really sure, but it seems as though you are taking str8's opinion a bit to harsh. you may not agree with what he feels right now, but i think if you reread some of your posts, you are ASSUMING a ton of things for never meeting the guy.

str8 ... about the crowd thing. i dont think its a matter of the TYPE of crowd more so than simply a NEW crowd. really i dont think its your crowd at all. its a CHANGE that you need. even though you are not in a LTR it seems that you are becoming complacent with everyday activities.

there is no excitement because you are so busy. then when you have time to socialize its with the same crew (i assume) doing the same thing.

 

[iqqi]

I stand by what I have said in the past that "game" and personality will trump looks any day. That is why STR8UP pulls chicks in real life.

Take his other thread for instance, in which he posted the craigslist ad. Online, is akin to window shopping. And I don't know what more evidence he needs that he doesn't have what it takes to be successful in that arena. And he is demanding 3 pics from women proving they are hot, or he won't consider them. When a man does that... he better be offering something as well! I know he wasn't "completely serious" about that ad... but he took it seriously enough to engage in further activity with the responders, and he even wanted to meet up with one of them.

But he is not getting past the initial interest. Once he shows a pic... they are OUT. Before he even posted what happened with the school teacher, I already knew!

The craigslist thingy is just one example. I bet he is like that in real life. He is not a quality catch, as Gerard pointed out. Could he be? I think maybe so. Because looks DON'T mean much, but when you have a holier than thou attitude, and you THINK you look better than you do... he seems to also think that he IS BETTER than he really is as well... well imagine if I had just described a woman and not STR8UP.

He has a princess mentality, he thinks he is higher than a 5 or 6, (expecting to be treated like a 8 or 9), he has a bad stinking attitude about women, he takes sh!t way too seriously, he only seems to date jerks (strippers?), he can't maintain a LTR... how many more red flags does a chick need? Not only that, but what is he offering to make a chick consider looking past one or two of those red flags? It ain't his looks. And it ain't his attitude.

NOW he is telling us that his biggest hope in the game is this strip club, COME ON. We are sitting here telling him to surround himself with a different crowd. Go to a bookstore, a museum, begs Joekerr. And STR8UP comes back with some sh!t about a strip club, where, get this... he will have pull because he is VIP and the DJ shouted him out!!! ???? !!!!

Yeah, STR8UP, you are definately going to find that hot quality chick that way.

Can't anyone else see how fundamentally insane his thinking is?

 

[Tazman]

1) This post has nothing to do with looks.

2) I never claimed to be "HOT" and I never claimed to be looking for Miss Universe.

Where you people get this stuff I have no idea.

It's called "lack of reading comprehension". Some people post not because they have anything constructive to add to the discussion (even if it's an opposing belief), but they have other motivations, such as any woman who posts in a men's forum on a regular basis and tries to spread the same misinformation that brought most guys here in the first place.

They call topics like this whiny and untrue, blah, blah, etc.

Why then is it that my success in dealing with women was exponentially improved after visiting this site and coming to the realization that they ARE'NT what I was lead to believe growing up?

Most times the truth isn't a very pleasant thing to accept, but I have accepted it and I am doing what I feel is necessary to avoid hardships that can be brought about by not critically thinking about what I'm getting into when I involve myself with women/sexual relationships.

The only person you can rely on to truly look out for your best interests is YOU.

 

[iqqi]

I think the main and most simplified version of STR8UP's "dissenters'" argument is that his negative attitude and superficial enviroment is leading to the negative and superficial experiences he is recieving, which is in turn feeding his negative attitude! And the cycle continues on forever in STR8UP's existence.

I the ostracized iqqimus dare to take it even further and suggest that STR8UP himself is horribly superficial, and is in the midst of experiencing a painful wake up call. Will he wake up? That is the question...

 

[ketostix]

I stand by what I have said in the past that "game" and personality will trump looks any day.

Wrong, "game" only trumps looks if you have the necessary threshold of looks and a better looking guy has minimal game. Likewise looks will trump game a majority of the time if a good looking guy has the necessary threshold of game, and looks plus some game will trump just game everytime if there's not a threshold of looks.

Take his other thread for instance, in which he posted the craigslist ad. Online, is akin to window shopping. And I don't know what more evidence he needs that he doesn't have what it takes to be successful in that arena.
But he is not getting past the initial interest. Once he shows a pic... they are OUT. Before he even posted what happened with the school teacher, I already knew!

So now you're saying looks are extremely important at least online, in which I agree with.

The craigslist thingy is just one example. I bet he is like that in real life. He is not a quality catch, as Gerard pointed out. Could he be? I think maybe so. Because looks DON'T mean much.

Now you're saying looks don't mean much. Well they still matter in 'real" life. You're just all over the place and talking out of your a$$ basically. Just like the rest of your post, you don't give advice. You're basically clueless about picking up women. You just get on here to attack posters.

 

[iqqi]

I said that looks definately matter in ONLINE DATING. What is so hard to understand about that.

In real life, looks don't mean jack.

STR8UP is my prized example of this.

 

[ketostix]

I said that looks definately matter in ONLINE DATING. What is so hard to understand about that.

In real life, looks don't mean jack.

STR8UP is my prized example of this.

What works online and in real life is not totally exclusive. I know you were saying that, and you're wrong as usual. Str8up freely admitted he wasn't photogenic but looks better in person, so you have no point other than to annoy some people here.

 

[Tazman]

I think the main and most simplified version of STR8UP's "dissenters'" argument is that his negative attitude and superficial enviroment is leading to the negative and superficial experiences he is recieving

Where on this planet can you find an "environment" that isn't "superficial"? The terms superficial, shallow, etc, describe what ALL human beings use when judging one another. Some people are simply more obvious about it, while others like to hide it and pretend that these don't apply to them because they're somehow above it all.

We don't give people the time of day unless we've taken a "superficial" interest in them, whatever that may be at the time. There's a fundamental reason for this, otherwise we wouldn't do it.

 

[STR8UP]

I stand by what I have said in the past that "game" and personality will trump looks any day. That is why STR8UP pulls chicks in real life.

Hmmm....well, that is true to a point however when I notice a good looking blonde checking me out from the other side of the bar and a few days later she's in my bed, it WAS my looks that got the ball rolling.

And I don't know what more evidence he needs that he doesn't have what it takes to be successful in that arena. And he is demanding 3 pics from women proving they are hot, or he won't consider them.

Please at least ATTEMPT to comprehend what you read before you post. I stated that I am "good looking". If one woman believes that I am good looking it makes it just as true as you saying I am "ugly".

I did not say that I am HOT, and the post said nothing about the girl having to be HOT. Matter of fact, compared to most women's lists of physical requirements mine was VERY open and forgiving. It basically said "I'm looking for a reasonably attractive reasonably proportioned female", and I believe that to be the equivalent of what I am in a guy.

When a man does that... he better be offering something as well! I know he wasn't "completely serious" about that ad... but he took it seriously enough to engage in further activity with the responders, and he even wanted to meet up with one of them.

I was definitely serious. And although the ad was based upon what someone else had written, I revised it to fit me and my personal tastes.

Because looks DON'T mean much, but when you have a holier than thou attitude, and you THINK you look better than you do... he seems to also think that he IS BETTER than he really is as well... well imagine if I had just described a woman and not STR8UP.

I haven't studied DJ 101 in a long time but i seem to remember CONFIDENCE being high on the list of attributes that attract women. There's a difference between a CONFIDENT man and a PRINCESS. And much of the way people see you is a direct reflection of how you see yourself. I know I have a lot to offer a woman. I have had SEVERAL want to marry me. And they were all in the 7-8 range.

he has a bad stinking attitude about women,

Ha....I wouldn't think that I would have too many female friends if that were the case. I can assure you that women would NOT want a woman hater around them, and I can assure you that there are quite a few women around here that think I'm an alright kind of guy (both sexually and non sexually).

he takes sh!t way too seriously, he only seems to date jerks (strippers?),

I don't date "jerks", and it's been a long time since I had anything to do with a stripper.

he can't maintain a LTR...

Says who? You? lol

NOW he is telling us that his biggest hope in the game is this strip club, COME ON. We are sitting here telling him to surround himself with a different crowd. Go to a bookstore, a museum, begs Joekerr. And STR8UP comes back with some sh!t about a strip club, where, get this... he will have pull because he is VIP and the DJ shouted him out!!! ???? !!!!

I believe that I clearly stated that I wasn't looking for a wife at the strip club. If I get any play there it will be of the wham bam thank you mam type. Hell, i might even CONSIDER dating one casually, but thats it.

But what does that have to do with any of this? I would love to find a great girl I could share sex AND intimacy with, but in the meantime, hell, why would I turn down the ability to get some ass from a hot 22 yr old? I have to do business with them anyway so I might as well take advantage of THAT since I don't have much off time to pursue a "real" relationship.

 

[Luthor Rex]

NO, it hasn't been summed up. Our culture today fosters a negative attitude toward men. It ISN'T all about "you" if you have a hard time finding decent women.

When trying to revive chronic life problems people generally have two knee-jerk reactions: 1.) it's YOU! or 2.) it's THEM!

The reality is usually messier, and knowing which one it is (or both) can be a real mess.

Someone who lives in a culture where open racism is considered 'ok' really isn't being over-sensitive when confronted directly by such hate. At the same time, such a person would have to guard themselves against allowing such a culture to poison their own view of the world; difficult though that might be.

Maybe you really do have some 'issues' STR8UP, but at the same time it really isn't just you.

:flowers:

 

[Gerard-890]

This is turning into a low quality verbal sparring between two different sides of opinion, and nobody is really listening to the other person nor taking in consideration the "suggestions" of the other party.

Danger you mentioned that:

" I would sum up STR8UPs position as being frustrated at two things....

1) Women being low-quality
2) Men having a disadvantage

Who can honestly disagree with this?"

I can because as I pointed out, Men dominate the leadership roles in this country, men make majority of the rules and not women. Matter of fact, a woman being seen as "HOT" has even been created by men as a result of medial and society TELLING you what IS hot. Who do you think is behind that "media" and "society?"

There are more higher quality women in today's marketplace than low quality, why you say?

Because 50 years ago, women could be HARDLY NOTHING. Majority of their "talents" were reduced to being a housewife and supporting their husbands as they went out and "provided." Women couldn't vote, women couldn't hold the MAJOR positions, basically majority of them were dumb, stupid, and the ONLY QUALITIES they had were that of cooking, cleaning, making babies, and nurturing the family.

Women today are smarter, brighter, make more money, DON'T NEED MEN, and can stand on their own two feet. This means that they have more CONFIDENCE, Confident people are BETTER people all around. That makes for higher quality.

Alot of women today are slvts, you know why? Because they CAN BE! Men have been slvts for years, now all of a sudden a girl (and women love sex more then we do) wants to get some action now you HATE HER? She's not feminine by doing so?? She's "low quality" because of that?

When you can stick your penis in many women and still look at yourself as HIGH QUALITY, why when the shoe gets on the other foot there seems to be a problem?

 

[Gerard-890]

ThunderMaverick you said this:

"Coming to STR8's defense about the whole male/female disadvantage, I think Gerard is wrong on saying society treats women as "sex objects". They're now called "sex symbols". Strippers and pornstars are now empowered. Women are FOOLED into thinking this is power when all it is doing is giving them false hope. They look into the mirror and what they see isn't "perfect". They hate themselves..."

Again I ask the question, who MADE women into "sex symbols" did women do that or did MEN who have majority of the advantages in the world, who run the media, run the corporations, place women up like that and influence society to SEE women in such fashion? It's called brainwashing and using the consumer men's own internal pervertness to make a dollar. So I guess you are saying that WOMEN made themselves sex symbols? If that is what you are saying, please go back here > www.google.com and try again pal.


DavenJuan you said this:

"gerard. i am not really sure, but it seems as though you are taking str8's opinion a bit to harsh. you may not agree with what he feels right now, but i think if you reread some of your posts, you are ASSUMING a ton of things for never meeting the guy."

I'm not concluding anything on Str8up then what HE HIMSELF has posted. Str8up said that he believes that majority of women today aren't dateable, aren't high quality, aren't trustworthy, and then on top of that he said that majority of guys are the same way, basically he's saying you can barely trust ANYBODY.

Did he NOT say that? Okay, that's a flawed belief system that he has because his conclusions and concepts are WRONG.

 

[Gerard-890]

Majority of women today are high quality, by the simple notion that more women today then ever before are INDEPENDENT. They don't need a man for hardly NOTHING. This means when you are dealing with women today, unlike 50 years ago or so, you don't have someone who's looking to LEAN ON YOU so you can take care of them, they can take care of themselves and YOU TOO. They have more confidence, they are better in bed, they are fun to be around, and any guy saying other wise is just a guy who wants to go back to the OLD DAYS. The days where women weren't so independent, needed men for survivial, so YOU can feel empowered. Lol, that means YOU have low self-esteem because you want someone else to go DOWN so you can go UP.

Getting on majority of men, this isn't anything to say I'm gay or anything, but to provide an alternative to Str8up's "most peopel aren't trustworthy claim."

More men today are high quality then low quality, because of the simple fact of OPPORTUNITY being more PRESENT today then ever before. You have more people going to college, opening businesses, and being successful TODAY then years ago those opportunities would have been only in the DREAM WORLD. You have ordinary men making money online, you have ordinary men making money in Real Estate, you have ordinary men making money in Stocks. Years ago, ordinary men would not have HAD those opportunities nor the education and training required to succeed.

This means that MAJORITY of men aren't looking to screw you over, but instead looking to be the best they can be. This doesn't mean that all men are like that, but majority are. Either they are "hustling" selling drugs (which I don't recommend), or they are hustling opening businesses, or hustling in real estate, stocks, bonds, you name it.....majority of guys are of higher quality then in the yester years because most are becoming self-made leaders. Self-made leader = Alpha Male. The more alpha males the better progression of society, as men STAND UP for what they believe and provide CHANGE.

This is why I said that Str8up's internal beliefs are wrong, wrong, wrong.

 

[Luthor Rex]

"Too many people have gone jeckyl and hyde on me in my life."

Thats the strangest goddamned phenomenon ever isn't it Str8up?

I've had friends turn on me too unexpectadly over the years and I treated these dudes with nothing but respect.

Someone should make a thread theorizing why this happens.

I've seen this too, but I've come to the conclusion that there really is no jeckyl/hyde thing going on. What's really happening is that we never knew the person as well as we thought we did. Also, people tend to ignore data that goes against their expectations, so when someone acts 'out of character' they ignore it until it blows up in their face. Keeping a "beginner's mind" about it is rather hard.

Like Britney Spears: a long time ago when she said that "Madonna was her idol" I knew she was going to be slvtty when she got older. The more you pay attention to it the better you get and the more information you get from subtle behavior.

It's gotten to the point for me that that I could have written the dialog for the last girl I was working on getting together with. Everything came to a crashing end when I said something that hurt her feelings. She demanded an apology. I told her I didn't even know what I had said to hurt her. She explained herself and I still didn't get it (I still have no idea). So I told her I meant no harm. That wasn't good enough she wanted "sorry" to come out of my mouth. I let her know that I only say sorry when I think I did something wrong, and I didn't even understand what I did wrong. She told me that it didn't matter and I should "respect her feelings."

I have met other women who used the "respect my feelings" move as a "do what I say" power play. Sometimes intentionally and sometimes not. Things broke off with the girl when I told her that if I said sorry this time I'd be saying sorry for as long as I knew her so I wouldn't do it. I've seen how this pattern works, it puts you on the constant defensive and eventually for you to "respect her feelings" you need to not be respectful of your own.

My larger point here is that: 1.) math is the language of nature, 2.) everything can be expressed as numbers 3.) this means that everything around us is a system and as such is predictable if you understand that system, and 4.) the movie "Pi" was pretty darn cool.

Seriously though, the world is a system. People become more predictable the better you understand those systems.