how to get my ex gf back

[Igetit!]

First off, I really like this thread. There is some great advice and "plans of action" in here. It's brilliant.

I'm by no means an expert (I'm sure it shows) but I'm confused:How can "cutting back contact" co-incide with you sleeping on HER couch every week, kisses/dates with her every week, her in her skivvies sleeping in your lap... I get that you aren't as intensely "involved" as you once were, but your actions seem to say otherwise?

Hansol,I have 3 things to say to you in response to what you've written here:


THANK YOU...


THANK YOU......


THANK YOU!!!!


Have a rep point dude. Put it on my tab.





SBW,I've been trying to get you to understand this one point Hansol brought up.


YOU NEED TO GET AWAY FROM HER.


This should be farther along than it is. You're no closer to getting a relationship with her now than you were when you started.



It's like I said: Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?


Why would she get into a relationship with you when she's already has all the things a relationship intails WITHOUT the commitment?



She's getting YOU,that is,your time,attention,your PRESENCE,your kisses,ALL OF IT,she's getting these things NOW...while she's single.



If I see a couch I like that cost $400 in one store,then I see the exact same couch in another store for only $150....*SURPRISE*,I'm going to buy the one that cost less.



Why would I pay more just to get the exact same thing?



Why would she become your girlfriend? What would she get that she's not already getting?



She's getting relationship benefits from you NOW,and it barely cost her anything,but you want her to pay more by entering into a relationship with you just to get what she's already getting?

Why would she do that?



It's perfect for her the way it is right now. She's having her cake and eating it too.



She gets you doing boyfriend-ish things with her while technically being free to see other men if she chooses.



Look man,don't be #4.

In the past week,there has been 3 members of this forum who have come here,received advice,rejected it,then went out and got emotionally devistated by women.


And each one came back and told everyone here that we were right in what we were advising them.


I don't want to put their names out,but there threads are on the board.

Don't be number 4.




You're trying to change your attitude when you're around her,but what you need to do not be around her in the first place.




It's simple:She's not going to be your girlfriend as long as she ALREADY FEELS LIKE she's your girlfriend.



There's nothing new to advise you here. You haven't done the first part yet.


The first step was to cut contact. Yeah,there are additional things to do,but you can't go to step two until step one is completed.



You'd probably be more than half-way to having her by now if you had done what was suggested.



I told you man,this thing will drag out FOR MONTHS if YOU let it.

 

[SBW]

How can "cutting back contact" co-incide with you sleeping on HER couch every week, kisses/dates with her every week, her in her skivvies sleeping in your lap... I get that you aren't as intensely "involved" as you once were, but your actions seem to say otherwise? And don't take that the wrong way,

I'm just trying to get a grasp on what's happening.

Usually when I've cut back contact, I try to not spend time at any "private" setting with the girl, ie.

SBW,I've been trying to get you to understand this one point Hansol brought up.


YOU NEED TO GET AWAY FROM HER.


This should be farther along than it is. You're no closer to getting a relationship with her now than you were when you started.

Yes - I do get both of you on this one and I have already cut back contact considerably. Particularly private time - eg during the week, when I was spending many evenings after her work and plenty of time with the boy. That has all-but stopped, apart from one evening last week and for the times she asked me to come and meet her, I've simply dropped her off and left, citing tiredness, work or a number of other things as a reason. Texts/calls were the first thing I cut back on, before I'd even found this place.

However, I had tried to wind it down, rather than cutting it dead and initially my idea was to concentrate what time I did give her on the weekends as the time we had the most fun and connected most easilly for sex and shared activities apart from just as friends.

This was going to change more or less now as apart from one upcoming Sunday session and the small gig the same night, there are no plans for anything from either of us for the next fortnight, although Saturday's concert was her idea, so maybe there is a sign of more interest on her part?

However, since I last posted, she has texted and one of the band has let her know that she, the dyke, the young and the two other women are all banned from the session pub for the time being but not myself. The only other alternative open night with the same band is a weeknight when she's working and I'm unlikely to be able to attend myself. So that one has just ben sorted FTM. I've not replied yet. I'll wait to see if there are any more tonight and I'll send one last thing or tomorrow sometime.

As for the time in her home, that is how she tends to socialise - Go there for a few drinks/coffee before we go out, then go to a specific place/event, then back after closing time to sing, drink/party/sex till we dop, then sleep it off and repeat. I suppose this is a habit learned from years of living in a small town with limited entertainment opportunities?

I'm also still learning/relearning - I've been out of this for so long. And yes, I still have to get a grasp on what is going on myself. That in a large part is why I'm here and pleased that even starting to take your advice has had a marked affect. I wil be taking more heed over the next few weeks.

 

[SBW]

Not a lot to update this week, as I have had very little contact with her. Texts plus two brief calls of a practical nature or about the fall-out from last weekend and our performance last night. She initiated and I replied but kept the number to an absolute minimum.

Anyway, come Saturday evening as previously arranged, I went over to her's so we could run through the songs/outfits for the last time. After which, she was stripped down to her underwear/dressing gown and uncorked a bottle of wine (I declined more than a small glass) and started chatting about various things - Particularly a friend from her hometown who I had encouraged her to get back in touch with a few weeks earlier and how when you leave a difficult situation, it can be surprising who the folk that stand by you are. Also about that younger guy we met a couple of weeks previously - a friend of a friend, who seemed well into her but she now said:

"See that P***, You know I found him really creepy, what did you think of him? What will we do if we meet him again?"

To which I had to reply that yes I was a bit creeped-out by him and some of the things he was asking, about both her and myself were way too full of himself and too personal for comfort. Never mind that he was being a bit too touchy-feely with me, never mind her! TBH, I was seriously wondering if he was bi and trying to see if we were open to something with him. Hmmm...!

Then she started to pick a playful fight maybe? First she accused me of making-up things about her behaviour when she was drunk - So I challenged her to give me some examples, which of course she could not.

Then she started on about:

"I'm watching you and getting your ways - I quite like it that you always look out for me when we are out but never stop me from talking to or dancing with anyone and you go and talk to/dance with people yourself. Any other man I've been with would be constantly watching me or keep me with them and actually try to stop me from enjoying myself"

To which my reply was - "Well, you know how to look after yourself and I know your stated boundaries, so why should I be that worried about how you have fun" Which is true enough, apart from last week's farce, she has always been an excellent companion on nights out. No disrespect whatsoever.

Then it was:

"Even my best (former) friends back home would bring-up who I spoke to or enjoyed myself with in great detail and question me about it the next week but you don't. You just let me be"

My reply there was along the lines of - "people are with who they want to be with, you have always arrived with me and left with me and we have had a great time before and after - Which is just fine by me!"

Then, referring to my not drinking much as I'd already told her I was going out whatever. - "Are you trying to get me drunk so you can have your way with me tonight"

So my reply was - "If that happened, I'd have to deal with you being pissed off in the morning so I'd rather it was a time you wanted me. Besides, you were not always drunk." (OK, there was a bit of mild kino going-on at this point, mutual!)

Then she started out on:

"Oh but you can get me so horny but i don't always want to make that obvious if certain people are watching/listening" (which could well refer to her boy, or the likes of that dyke in the session pub and one or two other people who seem overly interested in our relationship)

Then she changed the subject on to some other things down the line (which still allow a good break before seeing her again)and shortly after and I made my excuses and left. Found another woman to dance with and got chatting to a couple more in the club. No numbers but one at least is a regular, so I'll see her again - In fact, her response to my saying hi was - "Is your girlfriend not here tonight? Come-on, I need to dance!" - And she hugged and kissed me firmly when we finished.

The next day, I turned-up, we sang our songs, it went down a storm and after an hour or so chatting mainly to her boss/colleagues, I made my excuses and left them to it. She started texting me in the dead of night, telling me where they went after and how much fun they had and first thing this morning, she was on again asking if I would drive up to her hometown to collect her boy tonight whilst she is at work. I've not agreed to that yet but I think I'll be busy.

I am going to have to see her at one point later this week though, again a previous arrangement. FTM, I'm not making any new ones.

Any opinions?

 

[SBW]

Well, she's been texting me all afternoon, about all sorts of random stuff eg "I got soaked waiting for the bus to work". Since I replied to her morning text and said I'd not be able to go up for her boy tonight as I'd other things to do.

I replied once, offering to meet her half way & meet him off the bus mid-evening (which would let me get my stuff done) but apparently he is now going to be spending a few more days with her folks instead. So I replied that I might be able to go up later in the week if everything else is going ok. The reason - My elderly mother is in for surgery in a couple of days, so of course she comes first.

What do you bet she wants me to go out with her again soon?

 

[Igetit!]

I rarely,rarely say this,but I think it applies here...



JUST FORGET IT.


Just forget about it man. You're just wasting your time.



This has just dragged on and on.



I went back and looked at your first post in this thread,and there has been absolutely NO PROGRESS WHATSOEVER.

And the thing is,it's NOT the advice you were given that's the problem,it's that you STILL haven't applied it.





And if you haven't applied it after having it for 3 weeks,I don't expect you to all of the sudden do it now.



You two are too intertwined in each other's lives. There isn't enough distance between you two to make it work.



She still has no reason,no motivation to want to be exclusive with you.


Basically,nothing has changed.



She's still getting relationship benefits without the commitment.



Look at some of the things she's said...

Also about that younger guy we met a couple of weeks previously - a friend of a friend, who seemed well into her but she now said:

"See that P***, You know I found him really creepy, what did you think of him? What will we do if we meet him again?"

Here,she asked you what the two of you would do if you ran into this "creepy" guy again.




So she already has it in her mind that you two are going to be out again.


You're not her boyfriend,yet she's speaking like you two are ALREADY a couple. She's already assumed you two will be "out on the town" with each other again...

and she's right.

Then she started on about:

"I'm watching you and getting your ways - I quite like it that you always look out for me when we are out but never stop me from talking to or dancing with anyone and you go and talk to/dance with people yourself. Any other man I've been with would be constantly watching me or keep me with them and actually try to stop me from enjoying myself"

You see the way she speaks to you here?


She said that she likes the way you "look out for her when you two are out,but never stop her from talking or dancing with anyone".



She said she likes the way you look out for her. In other words,you protect her and take care of her,which is what a boyfriend should do.




So she likes that "BENEFIT" she gets from you,but then she said she likes it when you let her talk to or dance with other "people",and that any other man she's been with...blah,blah,blah.



The "any other man" remark is the freedom she has. The freedom of not being part of a relationship.





She told you what we've ALREADY said.



She likes that you look out for her while letting her talk and dance with other GUYS,or to translate:She likes the "benefit" of YOU taking care of her,while she still has the freedom to talk/flirt/dance with other men.

she has always been an excellent companion on nights out.

You say she's always been a good companion when you two go out. So this "relationship" has been going on for a while.


I say just enjoy things the way they are.


You two go out on dates to dinner,dancing,hang out at her place late at night.


Just enjoy it as it is.



Even though I don't see her ever wanting to get into a BF/GF relationship with you,it basically seems you already have one only without the title.


You're already doing everything a couple does anyway,(hanging out,sex,etc.)so what difference does it make.




Just forget about it. Whatever you were doing before you came to the forum seeking help,just go back to it.




The advice here is golden,but useless unless it's put into action.



Don't worry about going no contact or anything like that,just enjoy the time you two spend together.

 

[SBW]

JUST FORGET IT.

And if you haven't applied it after having it for 3 weeks,I don't expect you to all of the sudden do it now.

You're not her boyfriend,yet she's speaking like you two are ALREADY a couple. She's already assumed you two will be "out on the town" with each other again...

and she's right.

She said she likes the way you look out for her. In other words,you protect her and take care of her,which is what a boyfriend should do.

The advice here is golden,but useless unless it's put into action.

Whatever you were doing before you came to the forum seeking help,just go back to it.

Hard words Igetit! but I do appreciate and value your advice and insight - Thanks.

However, I'm not inclined to give-up just yet.

Firstly, I have been applying your advice and have cut down contact in the last fortnight to just a few hours over two days in the last week, instead of contact virtually every day. OK, I did leave the first week as it was whilst I went over the posts again and again and took steps to change my behaviour when I was around her. Back in post 59, you advised me this:

You can't just go cold turkey. You'll need to gradually start asserting your manliness.

So yes, I have cut down contact slowly and not looked for sex so much or caved-in to her flirting, whilst taking a different and much more upbeat attitude around her. Another thing is that it would be quite out of character for me to strop-off and ignore her. She'd know I'm up to something if I did that!

I had wondered if this conversation was some sort of reaction to my not seeming to want to be about her? It certainly seemed to work to a degree as she has come towards me as I pulled back. Maybe her restating her "couple" ideas are another reflection of that - to see if I am still willing to do it? She has also taken back a large part of what she claimed the last time she blew me out and raised the "relationship" issue on a couple of occasions - So that might be an amount of progress there?

Yes, I will see her again, several times over the next few weeks - I do tend to discharge my responsibilities to people, so despite cutting back general contact, I'm unlikely to break a date/activity that is already planned. However I'm not making any more and by early the new year, I ought to be able to stand back completely. Will see what happens then.

I don't know if my behaving like a "boyfriend" when we are out/together is an entirely bad thing? She claims/demonstrates (at times) she would like something too. As for her freedom, she's social and I'm in two minds about trying to restrict that? If she wants to dance/chat with someone, fine. So far, she's given me no serious reason to think they might be any more to her and showing jealousy/being overposessive is surely a very bad thing? Especially where it is likely to be entirely misplaced?

Coming to this forum and learning has done wonders for me - Thanks again.

 

[Igetit!]

However, I'm not inclined to give-up just yet.

Yeah,I kinda figured you wouldn't.


Don't get me wrong man,I'm still pulling for you to get the commitment with her if you want one.


It's just that I don't see how you can do it as long as nothing changes emotionally for her.




I don't know everything,so if you do pull this off some other way,be sure to let us know.

Firstly, I have been applying your advice and have cut down contact...

My advice wasn't to "cut down" contact,it was to go NO CONTACT.


It was to phase it out COMPLETELY.

So yes, I have cut down contact slowly and not looked for sex so much or caved-in to her flirting, whilst taking a different and much more upbeat attitude around her.

None of this matters.

You still don't understand.

You're trying to alter your behavior when you're around her,but you simply being around her OVERRIDES and NULLIFIES the goal of you changing your behavior.



It's like one step forward,then 3 steps back.


Any potential progress your new behavior creates is destroyed by you constantly being around her.


Your absence from her life would sent more of a message than any change in behavior would do because it would create a void.



With that void being present,her want/desire for a man,for companionship would compell her to desire a mate.




And you constantly being around,(REGUARDLESS OF YOUR BEHAVIOR),keeps that void,that desire from being activated.



For some reason,I can't get you to see that,but it doesn't matter.




I've seen this scenario before,and have even been in it myself a few times,and it ALWAYS plays out the same way...




This will continue the way it is until SHE MEETS someone she does want a relationship with,then it'll be over.

Another thing is that it would be quite out of character for me to strop-off and ignore her. She'd know I'm up to something if I did that!

I agree.

That's why in my signature I say if she calls you to talk to her.

See how she's doing,what she's been up to,tell her what you've been up to,then end the call.


That's not ignoring her. That's being "civil",NOT INTERESTED/ROMANTIC,which is what should be done until she decides she's interested in you.

I had wondered if this conversation was some sort of reaction to my not seeming to want to be about her? It certainly seemed to work to a degree as she has come towards me as I pulled back.

It's possible.


I think her coming towards you because she "senses" you pulling back is good,but not enough.



She came towards you because you're pulling back emotionally,but you need to pull back physically.




That way you'd have her desire for A MAN IN HER LIFE working in conjuncton with you pulling back.



That would probably be just the push she needs to try to make it official.

Maybe her restating her "couple" ideas are another reflection of that - to see if I am still willing to do it? She has also taken back a large part of what she claimed the last time she blew me out and raised the "relationship" issue on a couple of occasions

Uhh...you never said this. So she took back some of the things she previously said?


Hmm. That interesting.


That's an important part you left out of your updates.

- So that might be an amount of progress there?

It might be.

I don't know if my behaving like a "boyfriend" when we are out/together is an entirely bad thing?

Well the thing is (once again),you two should be "out".

She claims/demonstrates (at times) she would like something too.

So she says she'd like something.

With who? You?

If you,then what's the problem? What's the hold up?


You're willing,and you say she's claims that she's willing.


Uhhh...well? So what's the problem here?

 

[SBW]

Don't get me wrong man,I'm still pulling for you to get the commitment with her if you want one.

My advice wasn't to "cut down" contact,it was to go NO CONTACT.


Your absence from her life would sent more of a message than any change in behavior would do because it would create a void.


I think her coming towards you because she "senses" you pulling back is good,but not enough.

Uhh...you never said this. So she took back some of the things she previously said?


That's an important part you left out of your updates.


You're willing,and you say she's claims that she's willing.


Uhhh...well? So what's the problem here?

Thanks.

OK, no contact from just after new year then, once I've discharged my current responsibilities to her. Some of the things we planned for the lead-up to new year involve her best friend, who is coming-up to visit. She moved south earlier this year and we spent a few days with her when on holiday, she thinks I'm great for /with her. IMO, she could be a very useful ally in this?

Jaunary is also a very dead, cold, depressing time here - if she needs a void, she will certainly get it then!

True, I had hoped pulling back, being around less and changing my attitude might be enough and it did seem a promising start, esp as she does seem to be more than part way there.

Sorry, thought I alluded to it but yes she took back a fair bit, as well as restating her desire for a secure LTR with me. However, by then I was avoiding getting into "relationship talk" FTM. Should I change this or keep away from it for a while yet?

Yes, the last time she said anything it was "It is my wish to end-up together with you"

Yes - What is the problem? - Women!

 

[Igetit!]

Jaunary is also a very dead, cold, depressing time here - if she needs a void, she will certainly get it then!

Well that's nice and all,but if you had started it back around Thanksgiving when you first came here seeking help,you'd probably already have her.

True, I had hoped pulling back, being around less and changing my attitude might be enough and it did seem a promising start, esp as she does seem to be more than part way there.

Well the thing here is that she UNKNOWINGLY followed the #1 rule we have on the forum,which is to "go by what one does,not by what they say".


Although you may have changed some of your behaviors around her,the one constant thing is that you're still around her.



Reguardless of anything you said,you continued going over to her house,taking her out,kissing her,etc.



She heard what you said,but she just followed your ACTIONS.



And your actions cancelled out your altered behavior.

Sorry, thought I alluded to it but yes she took back a fair bit, as well as restating her desire for a secure LTR with me.

I think she said this because she sensed you pulling away.

It's bait. She already knows you want her,so by telling you this,it's possible she thought it would make you stop backing off and get back closer to her.



I believe she has NO INTEREST in having you as a boyfriend,only as a place holder until someone else comes along.



I honestly believe that.

Yes, the last time she said anything it was "It is my wish to end-up together with you"

To me,this statement of hers is GOLDEN.

It's like I said: if you let someone speak long enough,they'll reveal their true selves.



Let's look at what she said here. She said it's her wish to "END-UP" together with you.



So she doesn't want you NOW,she wants to "end up" with you.



That speaks volumes dude. She's only unintentionally revealing what I've already said here numerous times.



You're a place holder.

You're just a donut/spare tire until the real one comes along.



Don't listen to me,listen to HER.



She said she wants to "END UP" with you.



Why would she want to "end up" with you SOMETIME IN THE FUTURE when she could be with you now?



Wow,this "end up" statement just confirms what all the guys in the Mature Man Forum have been saying over and over again.




Women reject good guys,go out and have 2 or 3 kids by some badboy,get used,abused,mistreated by them,then once their looks start to fade and their children's father(s) are nowhere to be seen,THEN they come back hoping to "end up" with the nice guy.




Yeah,she wants to "end up" with you,which means sooner or later,she's going to go looking for someone to "light her fire".




How many guys she plans on seeing/sleeping with and how long she plans on being out there with these guys,who knows.





It could be 3 or 4 guys,maybe more. It could be 5,6 or 7 years while she's out there having RELATIONSHIPS with these men,or longer





Who knows how many guys and years might pass,BUT...the important thing is that once all the men and time has passed,she wants to END UP with you.




She spoke a mouthful with that comment.



Anyway,good luck man.



Hopefully you two will end up together like you want.

 

[SBW]

Well that's nice and all,but if you had started it back around Thanksgiving when you first came here seeking help,you'd probably already have her.

It's bait. She already knows you want her,so by telling you this,it's possible she thought it would make you stop backing off and get back closer to her.

I honestly believe that.

Don't listen to me,listen to HER.

Why would she want to "end up" with you SOMETIME IN THE FUTURE when she could be with you now?

Anyway,good luck man.

Hopefully you two will end up together like you want.

Maybe - That would probably have been the best time. In fact about four months earlier would have been better still but I'd not found this place. We don't do thanksgiving here - so the holiday season has only just begun. Maybe its a curse of sorts but I have to maintain my own standards and reliability for what I've already agreed with her.

Maybe, but its not worked and AFAIK, she's not been out with anyone except me, family/close friends or that one night with her workmates in the meantime.

I believe you do and I accept this is a long-shot but maybe worth it.

Yes, I have listened to her and seen how she said it - There is a genuine emotion/desire there but whatever issues/internal conflict stops her has yet to emerge. The times she's said it say something too - generally when she is in "actions speak louder than words" mode.

She also claims she wishes she'd met me years ago, before her last LTR - Which would have made a lot of sense and surprisingly, our orbits must have crossed several times around that time. I used to play in/work with bands that regularly visited the places she went in her hometown.

Another thing I learned, long ago from my ex-fiancee (yes, she was a bit jealous of her initial attraction to me & how she quickly changed from b1tch to friend) was that beyond her teenage years, she did not easily get into LTRs. Both the major ones did take a long time to start getting anywhere, so I'll continue with an amount of patience. Neither was she that much into sleeping around - In fact, she was by far the least promiscuous of that circle.

Hopefully I can work on that come New Year. I don't think she's going to meet anyone in a hurry and with her pal visiting, she will be more than taken-up with her over the holidays.

Thanks - Genuinely! You and others here have given me a lot of good advice and I'll be coming back to this thread a lot in the next few weeks - will keep you posted.

But in the meantime, I will be looking elsewhere/meeting other women as well as dealing with some of the more unattractive aspects of my personality. Which will be no bad thing whatever.

 

[SBW]

Well, here is my next update:

Since my last post, I have seen and contacted her as little as possible, except to meet my aforementioned obligations around Christmas & New Year.

And it really went quite well, she seemed much more attracted and affectionate in my company & made umpteen references to our being together, my being "her's" and her boyfriend and also posing near-naked for photos. One night, when an attractive young woman cut-in on us dancing & said "she's old, why don't you come along with me!" That resulted in her pulling me away and delivering a particularly full-on french kiss, right in front of the girl on the dancefloor. We spent a pretty wild night together after that. Then I left her alone till New Year & her visitor. Which went well, but on the last night, she was getting testy & tried to pick a fight over nothing, so I left her to it for over a week, except for an occasional reply to her frequent texts.

So on Friday, she asked me to meet her for a drink after work & spent the whole time talking about "our" plans together for general couple stuff, trips etc. To which I remained reasonable but slightly noncommital.

Didn't see her Saturday but we went to the session yesterday, where despite being affectionate to begin with, she began to pick a fight again & at one point asked me to tell some woman who was enquiring about our relationship that "we were just really special friends". Well, that irritated me, so I answered honestly that "I didn't know what we were because she changed her mind so often" & that pissed her off big time. So I began to gather up my stuff to leave & she came along with me to another pub where she resumed some friendlyness for a while, before getting pissed-off again and going to chat to an older couple we know vaguely at the other end of the bar.

I think I was a major topic of conversation because a couple of other pals came down & wished me good luck in getting this sorted soon. Anyway, I ignored her & talked to them.

Again though, when I made to leave, she left with me and I walked her home, as she b1tched about my not overlooking her contradictions the whole way. I bid her goodnight and walked-on home.

News travels fast & I have had a mutual friend on this morning , asking for my version. So I've replied along the lines of - "I was not going to drag all our personal biz out in public but I've treated her with utmost respect and honesty, so we are probably done because of it. I hope you can still be a good friend to her, she needs one". Bet that will get back to her in no time.

So the door ain't closed but as far as I'm concerned, no contact has begun. And TBH, I feel rather ok about it. I now have other avenues to explore for a while.

 

[SBW]

Well, messaged mutual friend at 11am, first long b1tchy message from her at 4pm.

 

[underoath777]

Well, messaged mutual friend at 11am, first long b1tchy message from her at 4pm.

Nice! I am starting no contact today as well...kinda feel like a **** but I guess this will work.

 

[SBW]

Thanks pal. Strength to you, whatever the result.

And that is short and to the point b1tchy text number two at 5:45pm

Even if this fails for me, she treated me pretty sh1t at various times & I made every allowance/excuse for it. So I don't feel quite so bad because of that. I've also spent the last few weeks adjusting my attitude somewhat to be ready for this.

And b1tchy message number three at 6:40pm. She is now demanding I answer her & explain why I did not fully back her up yesterday. I am actually quite tempted to send this -

D**** - I could not answer that without reference to your no/yes/maybes & one or two other things. Despite your excusing them in various ways after the fact, I have enough respect to not want to throw that back at you again. Can you understand why I felt in a difficult position?

Any advice guys?

 

[SBW]

Now up to furious text number seven!

Does she really not remember that she's had me on & off the hook so many times already?

Are female emotions really that all-obliterating?

 

[Igetit!]

So what exactly do you plan to do to make this relationship happen?

 

[SBW]

Well, after the sh1tstorm that ensued last night - she was messaging away till the early hours (stopped counting), I don't particularly care FTM.

As well as her indescision, this has revealed a right vindictive side to her and I'll be bringing my re-assessment right forward. I think you advised me earlier that she might throw a fit when I finally stood up to her?

In the meantime, till and if she begins to settle down and talk more civilly. I'll be getting on with my life away from her, with the minimum contact possible and if I do see her again, it will be on much stricter terms - mine alone!

 

[Blue Phoenix]

I take it that the "things being great,then it's off and back to being "friends" "thing is her idea,and her doing.

She flip-flops back and forth between possible getting in a relationship with you and just being "friends",and while she's flip-flopping,you're just sitting there waiting for her to decide.

That's NOT good.
Now I see why she won't commit to a relationship with you.

She doesn't have to.

You ever heard of the saying,"Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free"? That's what's going on here.

She's ALREADY getting the benefits of being in a relationship with you RIGHT NOW,while she's single.

You two talk,spend time together,have sex from time to time. You've made it clear that you desire her. You talking and spending time with her fulfills her emotionally,and the occasional sex takes care of the physical. And all of that WITHOUT being in a relationship.

Iget it nailed it. I don´t see anything wrong with this as long as you:

1. Don´t get invested in this girl emotionaly or financially
2. Go out with other girls
3. Don´t buy what she says
4. Know that she´s doing this to other guys and is probably f*cking other guys.

You will do fine. It would be so much easier to be FBuddies, but she rationalizes it (pushing you back and forward) not to look like a slut. I might be paranoid here, but push/pull, go back and forward relationships are typical of BPD girls (here I go again, lol). When you get too close they run, when you get too far they get close.

 

[SBW]

Thanks Blue Phoenix.

I agree he did. All I've seen and learned in the last few weeks has only strengthened the impression that he squarely hit the nail on the head about this woman.

I'll give it a shot but all-in, I'm probably better off away from her. The stress has been so much less today. You only notice it when it lifts.

There is also a nice woman at work who I'm going to ask-out tomorrow. She came to see me today and brought me a bottle of Aquavit (Polish spirit). The last time we worked together, she told me she was single again and we have always got-on very well.

And you may also be on to something about the BPD - I had a talk with her friend over New Year about what went-on in the years between and she did tell me that her difficult times included a spell under psych treatment. That rang a major alarm bell as I've been there once before with a woman who neglected to mention her history of psych problems and ended-up having a major breakdown on me.

 

[SBW]

Thanks Othello.

And word must be getting around as I've just had a text from another nice woman I know, asking if I'd go to see a band with her on Saturday.

Back in the game - finally?