Guess i just have to go with it

[NoSure91]

@BeExcellent i think you are strongly against divorce if children are involved. whats your oppinion?

 

[BackInTheGame78]

It is. I talked to a buddy of mine and he said i will hardly find anything better at our age. And that iam maybe just depressed and searching for a reason. I dont know tbh.

Depends what your definition of better is.

If you want to feel like you are alive again you most certainly can.

If you are happy living a 2 kids, 1.5 dogs, white picket fence boring life and then wonder at age 75 why did you waste your entire life then go for it.

The no sex thing is a no go...something need to change with that. Either figure out a way to ignite the bedroom or leave.

 

[NoSure91]

my definition of no sex is 1x every 17 days or so. but its not good either so...

 

[The Duke]

38M, wife is 33, 2 young kids.

Went to a dinner, couples talking with each other, someone mentioned his wife is his soulmate. Others agreed.

I dont feel like that about my wife (i dont really love her romantically and question i ever did. but i appreciate her alot and respect her). We are a good team, good parents, never fight, no tocixicty, i make good money, shes home and does most of the house hold, shes a kind soul,
she doesnt like sex but is fairly attracitve, if i get sex occasionally its like masturbating with a nice body, we rarely have anything to talk about other than kids or our indiviual hobbies. But its not an abusive relationship. Just not a soulmate one either. I tried for three years now to spice things up, take her out more, take stress from her. Get myself in shape and dress better. Even got a hair implant lol. Nothing really changed in her behaviour. Maybe briefly then she goes back to ignoring me.

Kinda not sure where to go from here. Guess for the kids i have to stick it out and find my "connection" with friends etc and focus on hobbies and improving myself. I guess iam also too old to find decent love easily again + the effect it will have on children. Anyone has been in that position? Too good to leave to bad to stay basically?

Another thing that kept me thinking was the sudden death of a close friend. Now iam low key midlife crising my life. Kinda like getting fomo for the years i have left.

Sometimes i think maybe i get something on the side just to cover the sex part but its probably not worth it and too risky.

Please give me your take on this,
Thanks!


edit: we married after condom broke and she got pregnant. It didnt feel wrong back then though. Like the relationship was much better and easier (kids are stressful).

Put yourself in proximity of other attractive women with your wife around. Strike up conversations with them. See if that doesn't get her attention.

I've never had to deal with a woman that didn't like sex. I'd make sure my bedroom skills were on point before I'd believe she didn't like sex. Most of its mental with women. There are a million reasons.

 

[Manure Spherian]

I'm inferring that you both married on account of a pregnancy. This has been the source of heartache for men and women alike since the beginning of our species

Well, marriage was not looked at as a union of two people who give each other fuzzy wuzzies everyday for much of history.

OP: Does your wife withhold sex or is it just in exciting? If she doesn’t withhold sex then from what you’ve shared, there seems to be no serious transgressions warranting divorce.

Divorce, though necessary in some cases, is not good for children, spouses, in-laws/grandparents, everyone involved.

 

[Desdinova]

Kinda not sure where to go from here. Guess for the kids i have to stick it out and find my "connection" with friends etc and focus on hobbies and improving myself. I guess iam also too old to find decent love easily again + the effect it will have on children. Anyone has been in that position? Too good to leave to bad to stay basically?

Figure out what you want. If you want a new piece of ass, then go with that. If you want to actually fix your marriage, then you've got a lot of work and reading to do. You don't need to be fvcking soulmates to enjoy each others company.

 

[Manure Spherian]

. File for divorce.

I’ve seen this is you go-to recommendation for most couples going through conflict that might be worked out, even with children in the picture. Why is that?

 

[Manure Spherian]

You don't need to be fvcking soulmates to enjoy each others company

Right. You also don’t need to be so damn excited and entertaining to one another either.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

I’ve seen this is you go-to recommendation for most couples going through conflict that might be worked out, even with children in the picture. Why is that?

If OP is married to the wrong person and feels dead inside is it really the wrong advice?

 

[member162951]

@NoSure91 I'm a chick so my take may be a bit different from the guys (or maybe not) but I first want to say you seem like a really good guy, you're not here trashing your wife or playing the victim, in fact the opposite and I applaud your openness and honesty about that.

This is just really sad though no matter how you slice and dice.

First off I don't think this is about libido, it's about sexual attraction or lack thereof. You married out of obligation not out of love or even sexual chemistry or attraction so what's happening now was predictable and the natural outcome of that.

You mention you don't want to hurt your kids, there are two schools of thought on that:

(1) stay in the marriage and maintain the belief that doing so won't hurt your kids, or

(2) end the marriage and maintain the belief that you WILL hurt your kids.

My story is I was raised by parents who did not marry out of obligation BUT they did not marry out of love either. More for societal reasons, social status.

Their marriage was a loveless marriage and like yours there was no fighting per se (they didn't care enough about each other to fight), it was apathetic, they went through the motions and that was about it - produced six kids, but last I recall before my dad left they had separate bedrooms which suited them just fine.

I witnessed their apathetic loveless marriage and if you don't think that had a negative effect on me, please thing again. In retrospect, I believe remaining married actually did more harm to me than good!!

My brothers felt the same. We didn't get a chance to experience seeing our parents in love and happy, showing physical affection, etc and that has a HUGE impact on a young child and leaves a huge imprint.

They eventually divorced and my dad married the woman who became my stepmom and the LOVE of his life! He died in love and happy! And I am glad I was able to witness that love because had I not, I would no doubt be in worse shape than I am now.

And yes I AM quite emotionally damaged from having my formative years spent witnessing a loveless apathetic marriage between my parents, I own it and working through it. A couple of my brothers struggle as well, so it's not a "female" thing or gender thing.

I can't say what the right thing to do is, but you are only 38, the way you write like your life is over and there is no hope for future love is a load of 'you know what,' PLEASE get that toxic thought out of your head. My dad was nearly 50 when he met my stepmom, the LOVE of of his life!

I wish you luck whatever you decide, in the meantime love your kids, give them lots of hugs and be the best dad (and role model) you can be. A man they can look up to and admire. Especially if you have daughters.

Mine was (may he RIP). NOT the greatest husband to my mom (nor was she the greatest wife to him), but a great dad and I will be forever grateful for that.

 

[LightIsTaken]

I 100% agree with @BackInTheGame78

It's simply that she's just not into sex... with you.

The solution, however, is not talking with her about you not feeling sexually satisfied. What you desire here, is the raw, sweaty, animal energy sex with her, where she reveals all her sexual self to you entirely. You probably used to experience this years ago with her, when you two were still in the early phases of your relationship.

This sets up what you NEED.

As for HOW to get it.

I'm gonna quote the solution that Rollo has prescribed many times to so many people who are in the same boat as you. It's just one word. Dread

She needs to feel dread. Fear. Anticipation. Imagination. Her feminine hamster needs to start running in the imagination wheel.
"He's coming late these days, is he going out with some other women."
"He's looking much more handsome and is keeping himself in a pretty good shape. I wonder if other women are hitting on him at the gym."

Don't get me wrong, the point isn't to actually get other women in your circle (although that would also help in making her feel aroused from you). The point is to make her FEEL that you're the man that other women lust over.

 

[Divorced w 3]

Remember when you guys would bang like rabbits? Reflect on how life was then as a starting point.

 

[member162951]

Remember when you guys would bang like rabbits? Reflect on how life was then as a starting point.

OP said they never did though - fu*k like rabbits. He said there was never much sexual attraction, they married cause she got pregnant.

You cannot recapture or rekindle what never was.

 

[BeExcellent]

Advice from the old lady:

This is a tough one. As @JoyDivision1990 noted children are quite perceptive. They learn what a quality relationship is by observing mom and dad. If it is a passionless, going through the motions marriage it is not a healthy imprint. Toxicity also is a bad thing for kids to see, apathy (if that is what you have here) potentially worse.

I divorced my first husband for depression, laziness and alcoholism (arising from his depression)....best decision EVER. But what finally prompted me to file was the knowledge that I was setting a BAD example for my kids by remaining in a dysfunctional marriage. I did not want my son thinking that its Ok for man to be directionless or depressed or in a bottle dependent on his wife (I was the breadwinner after my first husband's business failed). Similarly I did not want my daughters thinking they need to take care of a dysfunctional man. Their father loves them; he is a loving father....but not a good example as to what a man should be beyond that. I told him I would leave, and why....then I gave him 5 years to remedy things. He didn't. So after 5 years of waiting? I left.

My kids understand why I left. They see that I am happy and their father is the same/unchanged. They learned how to prioritize self respect because they observed me practicing patience, but ultimately self respect.

OP, only you and your wife understand where things really stand. What the issues really are. Think about the example you set for your kids.

Yes stability is best; a loving marriage is best. It does not sound like you have much passion between you. Does she find you attractive/sexy? What does she find sexy? You? Not you? You and your wife MUST have honest dialogue around this. Only then can y'all diagnose the REAL problem. And only then can you sort out the correct course of action.

 

[Bokanovsky]

A woman who is unwilling to satisfy her husband is a real failure in life. That's, like, a woman's most important obligation in marriage. In the old days, failure to perform marital duties was grounds for annulment of marriage (and sending the wife to the nunnery). A woman like that is just as unethical as a deadbeat father who abandons his children.

 

[SW15]

File for divorce.

I’ve seen this is you go-to recommendation for most couples going through conflict that might be worked out, even with children in the picture. Why is that?

When I recommend it, it is applicable. In more cases than not, it is applicable. In this case, it is clearly applicable. This case has two ill fitting people (like my parents were) trying to make it work when it makes no sense.

I also don't believe in the idea of staying together for the sake of the children.

children are quite perceptive. They learn what a quality relationship is by observing mom and dad. If it is a passionless, going through the motions marriage it is not a healthy imprint. Toxicity also is a bad thing for kids to see, apathy (if that is what you have here) potentially worse.

I agree with your assessment that children are perceptive. I certainly was when I was a child and observed my parents' pathetic marriage.

I think there has been some long lasting impact of my parents' marriage on my mating outcomes. It's not the only factor but it is a relevant factor.

In my own world, I consider my maternal cousins who I have mentioned on this board before. My mom has a brother (my uncle). My uncle and aunt have had a better than average marital outcome (have stayed in a marriage from their 20s to beyond age 65). The quality of their marriage has probably been so-so but they had longevity, raised 2 kids into adulthood, and had at least a somewhat healthy dynamic. When my cousins were children, they set a good enough example and probably somewhat of a unrealistic example for this post-1990 era of the mating environment. My cousins observed a stable, somewhat healthy dynamic and it set the expectation of a successful marriage for both of them. Both of these cousins got divorced during the 2010s with neither of their marriages lasting 10 years.

When I compare what I observed with my parents to what my cousins observed with my uncle and aunt, it's unclear who had the better deal. I think I had the better deal based on what I'll explain in the next paragraph.

I perceive that I got to see the mating world for what it is really is with my parents and their toxic relationship. My parents' relationship was so bad that it encouraged me to do my own broader sociological research and make decisions for myself based on rational thought and observation. I didn't want to have my parents' worse than average relationship affecting my judgment. I wanted to remove myself and my own biases from judgment when carving out my own life path. That's what created my path to discovering the red pill, which was a long process.

My cousins got to observe a better model. They took that better model for granted and didn't do their own independent research. If they had been motivated enough to do their own research, I am convinced that they would have run their lives differently. One of my cousins has become somewhat red pill since his divorce as he has randomly sent me red pill video clips from Instagram and YouTube.

My thirst for knowledge put me in a better place without having to see one of my own marriages fail. That said, I have not missed all forms of relational pain in my life. I have had my own failed interactions, both longer term relationships and too many "one date, no sex, no second date" type interactions that have been a complete waste of time and money.

 

[MAB]

I talked to a buddy of mine and he said i will hardly find anything better at our age.

What do you mean "at our age"? I thought you are 38 ... you should be at the absolute pinnecal of your attractiveness. How old are you actually? 83?

Look, reading your posts here, there is soooo much to unpack I don't even know where to start. The way you perceive your entire situation is through the lens of feminized, gynocentric, blue-piller glasses.

Obviously there is no such thing as a "soulmate" - that's blue pilled gibberish. And if you are spending time with actual adults who unironically mention the term "soulmate" in reference to a member of the opposite sex you should seriously overthink the company you keep. I'd personally never have chit chat with couples and women unless there is a good reason for it. I got better things to do with my time. At your age and point in your life you should know better than to waste time on pointless conversations with people who talk immature nonsense like that.

The entire purpose of marriage is and always has been the fusion of resources to rear children. That's it. Your wive is not supposed to be your friend. Wives are also never sexually attracted to a loyal husbands for obvious reasons. It's not that your wife doesn't like sex, she just doesn't like sex with YOU!

You also mentioned that you have two young children and that your wife is already 33(!!). I hence deduct that your wife got pregnant at around 27 - the age of a woman where she looks for a blue-piller to act as a provider for her children. She already had the butterflies and the amazing, passionate sex with dozens of other guys she actually felt attracted to in the 15 years before you met her. I can bet you my life that these guys never got the starfish treatment that you are getting now.

And women do NOT "accidentally" get pregnant past the age of 20. She selected you as a mark to marry her and take care of her children. I sure hope you got a DNA test to confirm they are actually yours.

These are just a few things that come to mind reading your post. As I wrote there is soooo much to unpack here just from the tiny amount of info you've posted so far.

I strongly recommend you read the book "The Rational Male" to start getting a grasp of the situation you are actually in.

All that said, I don't think you should rock the boat with your wife and kids. If you are not arguing, she obeys you and fulfills her duties as a wife and mother, I don't think you have really anything to complain about. You signed up for the role of the beta-provider and from what you wrote that's exactly what you are getting.

 

[Divorced w 3]

A woman who is unwilling to satisfy her husband is a real failure in life. That's, like, a woman's most important obligation in marriage. In the old days, failure to perform marital duties was grounds for annulment of marriage (and sending the wife to the nunnery). A woman like that is just as unethical as a deadbeat father who abandons his children.

Lack of sex is still grounds for divorce in some states believe or not. I’m sure it’s just technicality now but kind of funny

 

[SW15]

This is a dreary existence. File for divorce.

I stand by my initial analysis of the situation. I wrote what I wrote when I didn't have a lot of time to go through this post in detail. In short, I got it right 3 weeks ago.

someone mentioned his wife is his soulmate.

I dont feel like that about my wife (i dont really love her romantically and question i ever did. but i appreciate her alot and respect her). We are a good team, good parents, never fight, no tocixicty, i make good money, shes home and does most of the house hold, shes a kind soul,
she doesnt like sex but is fairly attracitve, if i get sex occasionally its like masturbating with a nice body, we rarely have anything to talk about other than kids or our indiviual hobbies.

The unfortunate thing about this relationship is that it likely was headed in the wrong direction when there was an unplanned pregnancy due to a birth control failure.

If the birth control had worked that night, it is likely that you two would have broken up within 6 months with no marriage and no pregnancy. You would have moved on with your lives rarely ever thinking of each other and never seeing each other. By the night, she probably realized that she was with a mid-tier beta male and wasn't really attracted.

Now, the two of you have likely wasted an additional 5-7 years of your lives trying to make it work for the sake of your children when it never really worked. The first child was a result of a birth control failure and the second child was likely another attempt to resusicate a sagging relationship.

I tried for three years now to spice things up, take her out more, take stress from her. Get myself in shape and dress better. Even got a hair implant lol. Nothing really changed in her behaviour. Maybe briefly then she goes back to ignoring me.

None of this is surprising. She doesn't have genuine desire for you. She likely didn't ever. Even before the birth control failure, she was probably trying to talk herself into a relationship with some beta because she was likely 25-29 then and you seemed "good on paper" in some ways that would appeal to the "beta bux" side of her hypergamy. This is common behavior of women in the "Epiphany Phase" that Rollo Tomassi has defined, which typically happens to women somewhere around ages 27-32.

Kinda not sure where to go from here. Guess for the kids i have to stick it out and find my "connection" with friends etc and focus on hobbies and improving myself. I guess iam also too old to find decent love easily again + the effect it will have on children. Anyone has been in that position? Too good to leave to bad to stay basically?

You have a dreary existence with a woman who lacks desire for you. You need to move on, do some self-improvement, and find a woman who has genuine desire for you.

Now iam low key midlife crising my life. Kinda like getting fomo for the years i have left.

You are having a midlife crisis because you are 38 and trapped in a dreary existence. Men who are 35-45 who feel fulfilled with their personal lives don't feel this way. Part of having a fulfilling personal life is having a romantic partner who sees her man as more than a walking paycheck.

I strongly recommend you read the book "The Rational Male" to start getting a grasp of the situation you are actually in.

I agree completely with this recommendation.

I thought you are 38 ... you should be at the absolute pinnecal of your attractiveness. How old are you actually? 83?

You are saying this based on Rollo's SMV chart, which puts peak male attractiveness around age 35-40. This is one thing I've never agreed with Rollo on. Peak time for males is rarely 35-40. The typical 35-40 year old male struggles to attract women who are substantially younger and in their peak (ages 18-25 for females). The typical 35-40 year old male is a pussie beggar for mediocre women who are close to his own age.

The way you perceive your entire situation is through the lens of feminized, gynocentric, blue-piller glasses.

He does see this as a blue pill guy with a gynocentric worldview. The problem is that the gynocentric social order came into the United States during the 1960s-early 1970s and has become the standard worldview during the last 50-65 years.

The idealized way of seeing relationships (the blue pill) has always been a thing though the blue pill changed upon the creation of a gynocentric social order and Friedan-Steinem Second Wave Feminism that emerged from the 1960s.

The entire purpose of marriage is and always has been the fusion of resources to rear children. That's it. Your wive is not supposed to be your friend. Wives are also never sexually attracted to a loyal husbands for obvious reasons. It's not that your wife doesn't like sex, she just doesn't like sex with YOU!

I agree with you on the purpose of marriage now and in past eras.

There may have been an era where wives were more sexually attracted to husbands when husbands displayed more masculine traits. A mid-tier, run of the mill, 35 year old beta male in 1960 had more of a masculine vibe than a modern day, 30 something Millennial male. A 35 year old in 1960 was a member of the GI Generation and likely fought in World War II. This is someone who was a grandfather to a 1980s born Millennial male.

In the eras up through the GI Generation and maybe the early part of the Silent Generation (late 1920s-1945 births), women were more financially dependent on men. It was around the 1960s-1970s, when late Silent Generation women and early Boomer women started to work and become less dependent upon males. In fiction, "Mad Men" character Peggy Olson (born 1939) was a great fictional representation of this as an earlier era working woman who was a white collar trailblazer of her era. The women born from the late 1930s - mid 1950s who began to work (late Silents and early Boomers) were raised to respect men and did have somewhat of a concept of gender roles. Women born after this lacked this. I'm an early Millennial and the 1980s Millennial women I've dated never viewed men in the same way their mothers and grandmothers did.

@NoSure91 has a 33 year old wife born in 1990-1991, which makes her a later Millennial. She isn't traditional in any way as a later Millennial. She was raised in an era long after women were made independent so she isn't going to view herself in any way as dependent upon a male, like her grandmother probably did. She's more into having a man who gives her "all the feelz".

I guarantee that she likes sex, just not sex with her "Beta Bux", blue pill hubby (@NoSure91). If she was able to have sex with some 30 something guy who was 6'0"+, 200 lbs + with solid muscle, a good hairline, and an above average sized penis, she would be totally into it. If she were able to have sex with a 21 year old with an above average physique that she met at a beach party on a Girls Trip, she would be totally into that too.

 

[MAB]

You are saying this based on Rollo's SMV chart, which puts peak male attractiveness around age 35-40.

No, I am not. I am basing this on my own anecdotal experience.

To give a little bit of background:

I am 43 and what PUAs call a "natural".

I've never been blue pilled (for some reason I have not quite figured out) and I've wondered all my life what's wrong with all the other men.

Once I entered puberty all girls in the neighborhood wanted to be my girlfriend and all my life girls have been somewhat chasing me. But exactly 1 month after I turned 35 things went completely crazy and it hasn't slowed since. It's crazy. At work. At the gym. At the store. And I am talking about very attractive women half my age. And they seem to get more attracted to me the older I get ... if I would write down things that happen to me in that regard you would absolutely not believe me.

So I started to wonder why this is happening and that's how I discovered Rollo's book and now this forum because he keeps mentioning it in the book. I haven't even finished reading it completely but I have to say that I consider it an absolutely masterpiece! I've been with countless women and I can confirm pretty much everything Rollo is writing in that book.

BUT, I think you are correct that 99.99% of 40 year old men are completely unattractive to young women, but NOT because of their age, but because they are blue-pilled, out of shape simps.

(...) find a woman who has genuine desire for you.

I agree that his wife never had a genuine desire for him but the problem is that even if she would've ever had that genuine desire, it always goes away sooner or later.

I've had soooo many women have this genuine desire for me and then a few months later it's gone. Like a switch was flipped. You cannot base any meaningful interaction on this.

Men and women are not compatible. If you realize that, your life will transform for the better. I am so glad I never got married and now as my libido is noticeably slowing down, I am looking forward to a peaceful, fulfilling rest of my life with my male friends.