Francisco d'Anconia
Master Don Juan
And she'll remember who you are because??????
Great date but she won't return phone call
- Thread starter white sox bill
- Start date
Cesare Cardinali
Master Don Juan
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I wouldn't call her in 7 to 9 days. What you should have done when she said "call me" was pull out your cell phone and dial right while she's standing in front of you. Then while her cell is ringing tell her "playing hard to get are we?". This should make her smile and pick up the phone. Then tell her that you two should go somewhere more relaxed for c*cktails.
Since you didn't do that, plan B should be to call in a couple of days saying the stuff I suggested in my initial replies. Suggest something fun, adventurous, and be specific. Don't just say "call me back" if you land on her machine.
Since you didn't do that, plan B should be to call in a couple of days saying the stuff I suggested in my initial replies. Suggest something fun, adventurous, and be specific. Don't just say "call me back" if you land on her machine.
white sox bill
Senior Don Juan
Because I'm the best thing to ever hit her!
white sox bill
Senior Don Juan
Ya Cesar I get what you mean, but in doing the phone thing, then I calling attention to her playing "hard to get" By not acknowledging this ploy of hers negates HER game. Its as if I never noticed.
Other than biking, not sure she's much for outdoors activities. My next step is to take her out and get her a bit drunk and go back to HER place to have fun. We live 20 miles apart, and to her place is much better than my house. I remember years ago, I planned this to a tee--before the date, I told my date that I would come by with a bottle of wine BEFORE the actual date. We sat around for ONE glass each, then proceded to go out of town.
How natural is it that at end of evening, instead of me waiting for HER to invite me in, I simply said "Lets get out here and go polish off that wine in your fridge." Worked like a charm!
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Francisco d'Anconia
Master Don Juan
Hopefully she thinks so too.
Cesare Cardinali
Master Don Juan
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Bill wrote:
You want her to know that you see right through her game and you're saying *playfully* that your game is stronger. You play by your own rules. So for instance, waiting 7 to 9 days to call is her game. It says she makes you wait so you return it with even more waiting time. It won't work because she has proven that she can out wait you given that fact that you called twice in one day and a follow up at the end of the week.
So what you want to do is basically convey with your actions "sure I'll call but you're on my turf and you're playing with my rules". There are many ways to do this, my phone call idea was just one.
Also, with respect to the date ideas, it's the same thing. You are doing stuff and you're inviting her to enter your world to come along. It could be rafting or anything else. That was just an example because I do those things. But it could be anything.
Getting her drunk *may* work but you'll have accomplished nothing. It's getting in via sleazy means as opposed to seducing her and making her want you.
Francisco,
How about actually offering the guy some advice this time?
Cesare Cardinali
Well here's the thing, you DID notice. And you showed her that by calling three times. Also, you want to be true to yourself. She pissed you off and you're giving her another chance. Go beyond trying to pretend that you didn't notice.
You want her to know that you see right through her game and you're saying *playfully* that your game is stronger. You play by your own rules. So for instance, waiting 7 to 9 days to call is her game. It says she makes you wait so you return it with even more waiting time. It won't work because she has proven that she can out wait you given that fact that you called twice in one day and a follow up at the end of the week.
So what you want to do is basically convey with your actions "sure I'll call but you're on my turf and you're playing with my rules". There are many ways to do this, my phone call idea was just one.
Also, with respect to the date ideas, it's the same thing. You are doing stuff and you're inviting her to enter your world to come along. It could be rafting or anything else. That was just an example because I do those things. But it could be anything.
Getting her drunk *may* work but you'll have accomplished nothing. It's getting in via sleazy means as opposed to seducing her and making her want you.
Francisco,
How about actually offering the guy some advice this time?
Cesare Cardinali
iveyleeger
Senior Don Juan
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I think she's playing with you, Bill. A sexy kiss, call me, and never calls you back. Leading you on.
Derek Flint
Master Don Juan
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Her: "Call me"
You: "I did already, a few times. You call me"
Then turn and walk.
You: "I did already, a few times. You call me"
Then turn and walk.
So you base your entire criticism of me on an ASSUMPTION that I believe Bill's "looks" are the sole reason this chick burned him? And furthermore, the logic behind your ASSUMPTION is supported by nothing more than an anthology of my posts on this board, most of which are over two years old?
I can see where you would get confused, but let me clear things up:
First of all, I don't recall mentioning anything about Bill's "looks" being a factor behind this girl's flake-out. I DO recall mentioning phone calls, and messages, but never "looks." On the contrary, I would imagine that she probably found Bill's looks perfectly acceptable, judging by the physical contact that took place between them.
Since you are so familiar with my posts, you may have noticed the myriad of occassions where I have clearly explained that ATTRACTION is a whole made of many parts. Only one of those many parts is "looks," albeit a part of undeniable significance. In Bill's case right here, it wasn't the "looks," it was everything else. Simply put, if Bill were baking a cake called ATTRACTION, he had the flour, but not the eggs, milk, or sugar.
I can see where you would get confused, but let me clear things up:
First of all, I don't recall mentioning anything about Bill's "looks" being a factor behind this girl's flake-out. I DO recall mentioning phone calls, and messages, but never "looks." On the contrary, I would imagine that she probably found Bill's looks perfectly acceptable, judging by the physical contact that took place between them.
Since you are so familiar with my posts, you may have noticed the myriad of occassions where I have clearly explained that ATTRACTION is a whole made of many parts. Only one of those many parts is "looks," albeit a part of undeniable significance. In Bill's case right here, it wasn't the "looks," it was everything else. Simply put, if Bill were baking a cake called ATTRACTION, he had the flour, but not the eggs, milk, or sugar.
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Francisco d'Anconia
Master Don Juan
I did, several days ago. Unfortunately certain people choose to continue to beat a dead horse, especially when the advice isn't what they would like to hear.
Someone put it best in another thread, but the fact is that all these "action dates" that you're so fond of are nothing more than feeble attempts to detract attention from yourself and your weak personality. When you sit down across from a girl, have a drink together, look them in the eye, and actually have a CONVERSATION, that's how they get to know the real you and the seduction begins. Instead you choose your "action dates" where the focus is on the "white water" and not on YOURSELF, where you feel the most lacking. But guess what? Eventually you will run out of crazy ideas (or money), and you will be exposed as a tool who can't keep things interesting without a paddle in your hands or a parachute on your back.
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white sox bill
Senior Don Juan
Francisco its not like I don't listen to your advice---in fact I consider everything you say to be valid. Its not what I want to hear SOMETIMES, but I want reality not fantasy. Keep telling the way it is I'm listening.
I listen to all advice then decifer it and go from there. We are all in this together. But I also listen to my gut feeling, but my guts been wrong before too
white sox bill
Senior Don Juan
Agreed Dr, ya know the best sober seduction has ALWAYS lead to the best sex. The wine thing is a just sort of a lubricant
Cesare Cardinali
Master Don Juan
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Dr Zaus wrote:
. My focus for the first few dates is on my having fun and enjoying myself. Under this context, you'll never see me posting stuff about how I'm upset that a date didn't go well despite us having "a great conversation". My dates go well because the focus is on fun, excitement, and NOT on seduction.
I just so happen to be this type of guy (who's doing action stuff) and the girls just happen to respond positively when they are in that state too.
I don't advocate 3 action dates per week or whatever with your LTR chick so that you run out of money. I'm talking about focusing on action dates because it's fun and not outcome dependent (i.e. regardless of how things turn out with the chick, you still had a blast). Save that romantic *conversation* b*llsh*t when you actually care about the chick and what's coming out of her mouth.
Cesare Cardinali
Well here's how I see it. The dates are WHAT I WANT TO DO
. My focus for the first few dates is on my having fun and enjoying myself. Under this context, you'll never see me posting stuff about how I'm upset that a date didn't go well despite us having "a great conversation". My dates go well because the focus is on fun, excitement, and NOT on seduction.I just so happen to be this type of guy (who's doing action stuff) and the girls just happen to respond positively when they are in that state too.
I don't advocate 3 action dates per week or whatever with your LTR chick so that you run out of money. I'm talking about focusing on action dates because it's fun and not outcome dependent (i.e. regardless of how things turn out with the chick, you still had a blast). Save that romantic *conversation* b*llsh*t when you actually care about the chick and what's coming out of her mouth.
Cesare Cardinali
Yea, you just gave away your own mentality/reality bud.
I recall you saying to me that my attitude was that of a loser, by nature of the fact my attitude towards American women.
I conveyed it to ya huh?
Let me tell ya this, your attitude conveys to ME that you have little to NO experience w/ women, likely a fvcking virgin, if different you would not be so fvcking clueless. I wish you all the best. Insist I am a loser if you wish, I'll still wish you all the best.
I understand what you're saying. Myself, I would prefer to save the "action dates" per se for my friends, where I KNOW I will have a good time and I KNOW some chick's bad attitude isn't going to ruin it. Furthermore you don't have the added burden of focusing on your game, whether it's effective, or whether she's even receptive to it. These are all stress-inducing factors that can easily kill a perfectly good day. Whereas with a relaxed "drink" date you can guage a girl's personality so quickly and easily, you know within the first hour whether she is going to annoy the piss out of you the rest of the "date." (I'm easily annoyed) The focus on your game is tighter because it's naturally part of the process. You also have a wider oppurtunity to bail because you're not locked into a raft sailing down some river 6 miles away from your car, or whatever the case may be.
The only thing I care about is what's going IN her mouth
With that said, it was out of line for you to say that using alcohol is "sleazy," it's simply a more effective method of qualifying and seducing a woman on a first date. If you wanted to just have "fun" I would assume that's why you have friends.I don't know how this thread degraded to this but you guys need to chill.
My take on this whole thing (especially after the second meeting in the beer garden) is this.
1. Is she interested? Yes. If not she would never have approached Bill in the beer garden. She would've avoided him like the plague.
2. Is she an attention wh0re? Hells yeah. She's probably more interested in the attention Bill gives her than Bill himself.
3. Was Bill being a bit too needy by calling too much. Yes. She has the "upper hand" so to speak right now because she knows Bill wants her.
4. Does Bill need to be more of a Challenge. For sure. If you would've played your cards better from the start Bill I bet this chick would be all over you right now.
5. Does Bill have a chance to turn this around? I'm sure Dr. Zaius would say no. I'm sure Cesare Cardinali would say yes.
I'm leaning towards yes but I tend to have a positive outlook and assume anything is possible.
In reality its up to Bill.
Guys, everyone seduces a woman differently. If something is working for you then great. Something different is working well for another guy too though. Arguing about which way is right and which way is wrong is a little pointless don't you think?.
My take on this whole thing (especially after the second meeting in the beer garden) is this.
1. Is she interested? Yes. If not she would never have approached Bill in the beer garden. She would've avoided him like the plague.
2. Is she an attention wh0re? Hells yeah. She's probably more interested in the attention Bill gives her than Bill himself.
3. Was Bill being a bit too needy by calling too much. Yes. She has the "upper hand" so to speak right now because she knows Bill wants her.
4. Does Bill need to be more of a Challenge. For sure. If you would've played your cards better from the start Bill I bet this chick would be all over you right now.
5. Does Bill have a chance to turn this around? I'm sure Dr. Zaius would say no. I'm sure Cesare Cardinali would say yes.
I'm leaning towards yes but I tend to have a positive outlook and assume anything is possible.
In reality its up to Bill.
Guys, everyone seduces a woman differently. If something is working for you then great. Something different is working well for another guy too though. Arguing about which way is right and which way is wrong is a little pointless don't you think?.
white sox bill
Senior Don Juan
Right on Slickster, how can you possibly make a "blanket" statement about women/seduction and expect it to work even with most women.
Yes I think she's interested. Funny how she was right behind me in the line @ a good sized beer garden. She's playing cat and mouse w/me. I screwed up calling her too soon, but now am practicing damage control. I will wait 9 or 10 days AFTER I last saw her to call her. Hopefully that will at least negate some of the neediness I may have portrayed.
Will keep you all posted. Since this was one of the RARE times I dated an older woman (she's 49) I thought maybe the games wouldn't have to be played. Wrong!
Wow over 1000 hits--amazing for a simple date
Bill