For the guys that pack heat

[TyTe`EyEs]

I just got a scope for my .30-06...Don't go hitchhiking.

 

[Derek Flint]

Originally posted by Ice Cold
Why not .22 for practice?

Single shots...
Many targets, one buller per target...

Pretty much everything except burst/double tap can be done with a 22.

But you want to become proficient with the gun that you might have to use to defend yourself.

 

[Ice Cold]

Originally posted by Derek Flint
But you want to become proficient with the gun that you might have to use to defend yourself.

I agree, but u still can learn with .22

IMO you shouldn't consider carrying anything on you until you've shot at least 20-30K...

From those... first 10K should be just paper punching in moderate pace. 22 is perfect for that.

I'm sure we agree with each other.

 

[yellowspeed]

Bad **** can happen ANYWHERE! Not just in bad neighborhoods. can even happen in LaLa land where many of you seem to live.

In my city there is a house in a very nice neighborhood where about two years ago a retired preacher and his wife were very brutally murdered in their own home by two teenage punks. The preacher of course was unarmed.

The possibility that a potential victim is armed is a serious deterent to criminals. I know this for a fact!

 

[yellowspeed]

Originally posted by torqueboxer
I carry a glock 23 in .40caliber with a Fobus paddle type holster. My question is what you guys do for conceilment during the summer months or when you want to wear a teeshirt. Im a bigger guy so hiding the midframe G23 isnt hard but it is winter and its easy to wear a unbuttoned shirt over the belt.

Ive been using this setup for about three years but want to maybe change to something different for summer carry. Give me some advice..thanks

Your best bet is the G27 or also known as the shorty fourty. It's the same cal as your 23 but best of all it accepts the mags from your G23. It is one of the most concealable guns out there.

 

[Andromax]

I agree, but u still can learn with .22

IMO you shouldn't consider carrying anything on you until you've shot at least 20-30K...

From those... first 10K should be just paper punching in moderate pace. 22 is perfect for that.

I'm sure we agree with each other.

20,000-30,000 rounds before carrying? Are you serious?

You shoot about 200 rounds before you qualify with an M9 pistol in the Army, and people that have never even held a gun before were scoring expert on the combat range. Proficiency is achieved long before 20k rounds, man. It has to do with the quality of the training, rather than the quantity of it.

I can put someone on the range for a month, and if I didnt show them the fundamentals they wont improve much, however if you show them proper stance, drawing techniques, breathing and aiming, and grips then it wont take them long, given they arent retarded, to learn the crap and be able to carry.

I've been shooting for years and am a damn good shot, and I doubt I've even come close to 10k rounds.

 

[Ice Cold]

Originally posted by Andromax
20,000-30,000 rounds before carrying? Are you serious?

That's my opinion.

You shoot about 200 rounds before you qualify with an M9 pistol in the Army, and people that have never even held a gun before were scoring expert on the combat range.

What does "scoring expert" mean?

Proficiency is achieved long before 20k rounds, man. It has to do with the quality of the training, rather than the quantity of it.

How many then? I mean... not only to carry, but to be able to use it on a decent level...

What are your... umm... requirements/skills... what does a person needs to be able to do, before carrying?

I can put someone on the range for a month, and if I didnt show them the fundamentals they wont improve much, however if you show them proper stance, drawing techniques, breathing and aiming, and grips then it wont take them long, given they arent retarded, to learn the crap and be able to carry.

How many shots then?

I've been shooting for years and am a damn good shot, and I doubt I've even come close to 10k rounds.

What discipline do you shoot?

I'm not arguing... just discussing

 

[Andromax]

In the US Military, scoring expert means that you have achieved an elite level of marksmanship, in that, you hit most of the targets.

You display your marksmanship badges on your formal uniform, and you wont see too many expert badges.


Thats what scoring expert means.

As far as being able to use the weapon on a decent level, we practive reactionary drills, knowing your weapon piece by piece, and maintainance (how the heck can you engage targets when your weapon jams, if you cant un-jam it?) and being a good enough shot to hit it a lot of the time, and not end up spraying rounds where you dont want them to hit.

As far as requirments to be able to carry a gun, I think that the concealed carry permit program, in most states is satisfactory enough. I would encourage the person who carrys to stay fresh on how their weapon operates and marksmanship skills, too.

So throwing out a number of 20-30k is kind of arbitrary to the fact that only sane people that know what they are doing ought to be carrying.


Do they even let you own guns in canada?

 

[Ice Cold]

Originally posted by Andromax
Do they even let you own guns in canada?

yeah... they do. With some fine print.

You have more than 10 guns... it's a good enough reason to search your house by law.

Pistol barrels must be more than 4.05 inches. No full auto of course. No AK, dragunov designs. Lots of HK stuff illegal...

Everything that is black, has pistol grips, scopes, was displayed in hollywood movies... is either restricted or prohib...

We do get to play with AR15 though and AK lookalikes.

 

[Centaurion]

You gotta be ****ting me dude? 200 rounds to be proficient!? From scratch??? Yeah, you're right, firing a gun isnt really rocket science, you point and pull the trigger. But it takes way more than that to become really profficient with a handgun.

3 weeks into bootcamp and we'd each fired ~ 4000rounds. I stopped keeping track after that. Andromax, I don't know what you are doing in the army, but if you have shot for years and havn't come close to 10k rounds...well... The army proficiency test is just a friggin joke. It's generalized for the entire army, (just like the min physcial requirements). It doenst mean jack. When we had our marksmanship test, it wasnt good enough to hit most of our targets. We had to hit every one of them, and with well placed shots.

I dont know how the rating in the States is, but over here we had Bronze (the lowest ~ 60 points out of 100), silver (85/100)and gold (the highest 85/100x6). Everyone could get bronze cause it was so easy, but silver was almost impossible, while Gold WAS impossible unless you were born a crack shot (you had to achieve silver 6 years in a row to get that one).

As I was in the Army Recon (equivalent of the Us rangers) they placed heavy emphasis on shooting and they had some of the top shooting instructers around. I can tell you that we fired well over 200 rounds before we got totally comfortable with the handgun and it took some time before we could double-tap like second nature.

 

[Andromax]

I'm talking handgun rounds, centurion, thats what this thread is about. Rifles and Machine guns are something entirely different.

200 - 300 rounds, depending on the course is plenty enough rounds to be able to hit the targets you are aiming at, if given the proper instruction.


I guess you can debate that all you want, but my personal experience has been different.

I have been Military Police for the past 3 years, since you asked.

Our infantry units spend all their time shooting and FTXing all the time too, and your qualification courses seem to be roughly the same.

By the way, I dont think that "double tapping" is something that they teach to civilians... or would want to..

Also I wouldnt compare a mother of 3 who packs a compact handgun for protection, who can reasonably engage a target with a limited amount of training, to a professional soldier whos sole employment in life is to learn how to kill people with methods such as double tapping that will ensure a kill. Jesus Christ, even if she doesnt even hit the perp I dont think he is going to be sticking around.

Anyways im done posting here, Rambo.