field report - date went well. or did it? what next?

[ogre]

is to send my reply AFTER the fifth day.

good strategy, thanks, Ulrick! one thing that I've found helpful is to change the subject line slightly - makes my email stand out from the others but still recognizable as a reply to her ad.


Francisco:

Liel's book - good so far, some stuff I already applied like using similar words. I need to read it thru before forming an opinion.


" can you keep up that level of conversation...?

I was thinking about that. I have to resist my tendency to prattle on or else I'll start revealing too much of my own weaknesses and/or babbling on about some political nonsense. Also I have to remember to keep my posture upright, (especially after criticizing rappers for the way they carry themselves) I have a tendency to hunch over like an omega chump who's been bullied his whole life. posture and tone of voice may be even more important than the actual words said. If I stay on top of that, I think the little details should work out.

"Getting so personal in an email usually makes things a bit awkward for the woman during the first meeting."

yes I noticed that she backed off a bit when it got too hot. so I have to flip-flop between normal talk and sexy talk. I also realize that I am giving her certain expectations of me and I don't want to drop the ball and disappoint her like I did with christie. basically with christie we got along fine if we were just pals but I forgot to bring my cajones.

"What do you know about this woman, anything?"

not much. I'll keep an open mind and a shut mouth. how's that for game?

"We'll see if/when she returns your call."

she did (check the updates) date set for Friday. woo-hoo!

 

[al77]

Originally posted by TooColdUlrick

...to see for myself all of the responses. i got 191 replies, and here's the breakdown:
=========
day 01: 157
day 02: 26
day 03: 4
day 04: 2
day 05: 1
day 06: 0
day 07: 1
day 08: 0
day 09: 0
day 10: 0
=========

Cool research! Let extrapolate a bit (based on some reserach I did). If a girl has a pic of decent cuteness, she will be getting emails constantly.. much less than in the begining, right, but all the time. So any kind of guy who do not qualify for the only prince charming...well is disqualifies since there are always more other offers waiting to be processed. Girls with pics date much more than than girl wihtout pics in their profiles....so they became much more pickier... and probably much more unwilling to settle for any kind of guy.

Conclusion is a bit strange: is there any sense to email women with pics at all?

 

[Dictatorsaurus]

Dude who cares if she thinks you're boring. Men don't exist on this earth to catre to some biitch's needs!!

A true man does what he has to do, acts modest and moderate and doesn't get bothered if things don't work out simply because its out of his control. If a girl is not into you it doesn't mean you did something wrong. So stop thinking about stupid little things.

I am good looking successful young man who has been rejected by many many women. The rejections mean nothing to me anymore so I continue doing my thing until things work out.

 

[al77]

Originally posted by ogre

" can you keep up that level of conversation...?

I was thinking about that. I have to resist my tendency to prattle on or else I'll start revealing too much of my own weaknesses and/or babbling on about some political nonsense.

It seems that when you talked to women you tend to write, and probably say a lot of things, as if you want to impress her with your wit.
It is quite simple, you know most of it already:

1. Get rid of those weird topics: politics, conspiracy etc etc completely. Don't even mention anything like that. Better laugh at her dog.

2. Keep your emails short: you write too much, and most women take lengthy emails as a bad sign of being desperate. If she wrot ebe back two short paragrapohs and I reply with 3 fat ones, I would never get a reply back. Probbaly it applies to you as well.

3. When you talk to her on a date, try this simple structure: reveal something about yourself, somthing simple, do not make it "a big deal", do not talk much about it.... after that smoothly ask her "And how about you?". Example: talk about you bikes.. just a little bit! then "How about you? Have you ever ridden a Harley? No? You prefer simple bikes?." Ideally at this point she should get in that mode of blah blah...if not, help her with some additional questions, if she doens dig bikes, try to move on: like "what's you favorite park where you ride you bike?" and now you gotta pick up teh convo, and talk about how You like super nice parks with all those trail, lakes, boats and juicy bbq...and after that again go back to her: do you like bbq and fresh air or you prefer being on a diet and run around your treadmill everyday? Obviously at this point you should look right into her eyes, and exude maximum conidence, i.e. dont smile much,
look at her directly etc.. and be ready to pick up the convo again
with somehting related to running, treadmills or anything related.

If you can come up with and incorporate somehting c&f using this concept, it would be the best thing to do while chatting with her.

 

[TooColdUlrick]

..double post

 

[TooColdUlrick]

Originally posted by al77
Cool research! Let extrapolate a bit (based on some reserach I did). If a girl has a pic of decent cuteness, she will be getting emails constantly.. much less than in the begining, right, but all the time. So any kind of guy who do not qualify for the only prince charming...well is disqualifies since there are always more other offers waiting to be processed. Girls with pics date much more than than girl wihtout pics in their profiles....so they became much more pickier... and probably much more unwilling to settle for any kind of guy.

Conclusion is a bit strange: is there any sense to email women with pics at all?

i pic is mandatory for CL, they'll just delete you. they have 200 replies, so why even bother with someone if they don't have a pic? i have however, gotten responses back without a pic.

ogre is correct too...i always change the default subject header (#2 below) in my replies. a couple of interesting things from my woman poser post, approximations...

1) probably 75% had no pics in their reply
2) less than 10% of the guys changed the default subject header. think about it, 200 replies and nearly all of them have the exact same subject header--easy to get buried among the garbage. change it!
3) about 20% replied back with a pic ONLY. nothing else, just a pic! (e.g. "im so beautiful that my pic says it all")
4) about 10% replied back with a c@ck pic
5) of the replies that i read, i was shaking my head on 90% of them--clearly lying, or a total chump, or an obvious copy/paste, or very arrogant, or 50 years old, or whatever???

but with CL, you have to take it for what it is...psychos, bi-polar chicks, BBW's, internet losers, etc. for the most part. i probably spent two hours a month on CL. post my standard ad (paste it), and reply to maybe 20ish a month. this is enough so that i always have about five hotties (post screen) in the pipe.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Originally posted by ogre
good strategy, thanks, Ulrick! one thing that I've found helpful is to change the subject line slightly - makes my email stand out from the others but still recognizable as a reply to her ad.


Francisco:

Liel's book - good so far, some stuff I already applied like using similar words. I need to read it thru before forming an opinion.


" can you keep up that level of conversation...?

I was thinking about that. I have to resist my tendency to prattle on or else I'll start revealing too much of my own weaknesses and/or babbling on about some political nonsense. Also I have to remember to keep my posture upright, (especially after criticizing rappers for the way they carry themselves) I have a tendency to hunch over like an omega chump who's been bullied his whole life. posture and tone of voice may be even more important than the actual words said. If I stay on top of that, I think the little details should work out.

"Getting so personal in an email usually makes things a bit awkward for the woman during the first meeting."

yes I noticed that she backed off a bit when it got too hot. so I have to flip-flop between normal talk and sexy talk. I also realize that I am giving her certain expectations of me and I don't want to drop the ball and disappoint her like I did with christie. basically with christie we got along fine if we were just pals but I forgot to bring my cajones.

"What do you know about this woman, anything?"

not much. I'll keep an open mind and a shut mouth. how's that for game?

"We'll see if/when she returns your call."

she did (check the updates) date set for Friday. woo-hoo!

I'm speachless, I have nothing to contribute. You have an excellent understanding of the situation and yourself, plus you have a game plan! No worries on my side, knock 'em dead!

 

[ogre]

I have to change the date.....

I wanna change the date from Friday to Saturday. friday crappy weather (no motorcycle) Saturday my friend's band is playing and they're gonna throw a wild party. I think it would give her a much better time to do saturday then to just pick her up in my beat-up chevy van and go to dinner (ick!)

I already left her an email this morning about it, and I paged her, but no reply back yet. she prolly won't get the email 'til tonight. she's a 9-5-er. I could leave a voice-mail or I could just sit tight.

what do you think?

how do chicks react to changing the date? would I be pervieved as wishy-washy or would I be perceived as a super fun guy with not enough spare time?

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Re: I have to change the date.....

Originally posted by ogre
I wanna change the date from Friday to Saturday. friday crappy weather (no motorcycle) Saturday my friend's band is playing and they're gonna throw a wild party. I think it would give her a much better time to do saturday then to just pick her up in my beat-up chevy van and go to dinner (ick!)

I already left her an email this morning about it, and I paged her, but no reply back yet. she prolly won't get the email 'til tonight. she's a 9-5-er. I could leave a voice-mail or I could just sit tight.

what do you think?

how do chicks react to changing the date? would I be pervieved as wishy-washy or would I be perceived as a super fun guy with not enough spare time?

Dude, changing plans are fine but you're falling back on things that detract from yourself. :nono: Plus is she a 'wild party' type of person? Why don't you want her to get to know you one on one and then incorporate her into your world?

 

[ogre]

when I go to this guy's gigs I have a lot of friends there. (including some hot-looking actress/model types) I'm well-liked in that crowd. it's an opportunity for me to show some social proof. takes some of the pressure off of doing the one-on-one. we can go out for a bite afterwards, and when we do it would be like she is having a special audience with a popular fun guy.

I think it'll rain both days, but the party is on Saturday. so I can't play biker anyweay.

um yeah I think she's a party gurl...but if not, I figger I'l l just make the rounds, say hi to my friends and then we can go off by ourselves.

and honestly I don't have the spare time to go out both friday and saturday.

 

[iveyleeger]

Do you want to be perceived as a super-fun guy?

Part of the problem you describe is that women see you one way by email, another in person. So maybe you should be working to close that gap rather than widen it.

Remember that you don't have to be a super-fun guy to get a girlfriend. You just have to connect with women on a certain level and get them feeling a certain way. It's really all about *her* and her feelings -- not about you at all. Women will go for the goofiest guys if they make them feel the right way. If you are focused on being somebody you are not this will just impede your game -- and lower your self-esteem. Focus totally on her instead.

I say that from experience. I am not a super-fun guy. And I'm not interested in party girls. They actually bore the sh*t out of me, and always have. Trying to get them would just be like a dog chasing a car, futile, and what would I do if I got them? I'd rather spare myself the bruised ego and boring nights and focus on the thoughtful, creative types that I like -- who tend to like me, too.

About the date change, that's always risky. You essentially have to ask for another date before you have this one. The odds go down. Social proof is good, but a date shouldn't involve your friends, it should be about getting her to feel a certain way with you. Stick to your original date and adapt it to the weather.

Also, email is weak. If you need something now you gotta call. And never leave messages, totally weak. I remember women leaving me messages that they had a great time, next time on them, etc., and it lowered my interest drastically b/c I just thought "weak game" -- they want to see me but are afraid to ask in person, they must be lacking self-esteem. And that's a major turn-off.

So to conclude, I advise that you stick with the plan so you don't have to email or call, don't involve your friends, and stop thinking about how she perceives you and start thinking about how you want her to feel when she's around you and how you are going to make her feel that way. If you focus on that you will be in control of the situation rather than reacting to her and that is what a woman expects.

 

[al77]

I agree with iveyleeger very much:
Do not change anything.

Party is good for some other dates..2nd, 3rd etc.. not the first one. On the first one you gotta talk one to one, show as much of your personality as you can without any distraction. I'd not even use the bike.... since clearly you are showing off and trying to impress her. It does not bring any good points for some decent gals (Ha! He is trying to Impress ME!), but sure you will get some points from "party-cool" type girls who dig some superficial stuff because it is just "cool". The bike is very cool for other date though, after you already know her a littlee bit.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Originally posted by ogre
when I go to this guy's gigs I have a lot of friends there. (including some hot-looking actress/model types) I'm well-liked in that crowd. it's an opportunity for me to show some social proof. takes some of the pressure off of doing the one-on-one. we can go out for a bite afterwards, and when we do it would be like she is having a special audience with a popular fun guy.

I think it'll rain both days, but the party is on Saturday. so I can't play biker anyweay.

um yeah I think she's a party gurl...but if not, I figger I'l l just make the rounds, say hi to my friends and then we can go off by ourselves.

and honestly I don't have the spare time to go out both friday and saturday.

You can't keep running from yourself, you'll always be there.

 

[ogre]

crap......

I already asked to change the date and she agreed. so I can't flip back on it now. maybe I can arrange to see her early so we can grab a bite or something. transcript:

me:

rain forecast for friday eve. ugh. no motorcycle. my friend's band has a gig on Saturday eve. I just got the email today along with comp tix. open bar 7PM. They throw a good party, but if turns out to be not your thing we can always split and do something else. I think this would work out better than Friday. OK for you?

she:

only if I get a raincheck on the motorcycle ride.

(um, that sounds like a YES! to me......)

my answer:

you got it, as long as you don't look like this girl:
http://www.rense.com/1.imagesG/wgirl.jpg

sort out deets by phone.

 

[al77]

ogre,

You can improve you communication by:

1. Say could have said "rain forecast means my motocycle needs my attention and time on Friday. Let get together...."

2. Do not offer her vague "somehting else", and do not mention any negative stuff like "if turns out NOT YOUR THING"... you want to at least appear as confident, so do not offer her things you are not sure she likes. Just offer whatever you want and show no doubts she'll like it. And do nto worry about her: she'll let you know if she doesn't like it.

3. You sent her that pic?? Let me ask you what messag eyou wanted to convey? That you like crossdressers? or you want her to dress in some starnge way? Or that you are TRYING to be a funny guy, and trying too hard since you come up with a bit weird pic?
If I were you, first thing I'd do is to think what message I want to convey by sending the pic.

 

[ogre]

ok.....

good news I didn't actually send it yet. still in my "drafts" folder. I have a few hours left...

I was trying to be funny but if it's that risky I won't send it.

"turns out to be not your thing we can always split and do something else"
I was trying to show that I'm flexible.


all these dating gurus say to go on an "action" date first, not dinner - including liel lowndes. that's why, when I got my friend's email on thursday night about his gig I decided that here was something fun we could do together, and then we could go have dinner one-on-one afterwards. always good to have a backup plan. when I took the indian girl out I had a plan "B" and it worked out. but when I went to see christie I had no backup plan, and so when plan "A" failed I dropped the ball.

anway I can change the email to say:

(quoting her)> only if I get a raincheck on the motorcycle ride.

(me)done. rain tomorrow too, but I'll bring the chevy..... talk tonight.

 

[Lost In Translation]

LOL

DO NOT SEND THAT PIC !!!


Lost In Translation

**AUSTRALIAN STREET PIMP**

 

[al77]

Originally posted by ogre

I was trying to be funny but if it's that risky I won't send it.

"turns out to be not your thing we can always split and do something else"
I was trying to show that I'm flexible.

all these dating gurus say to go on an "action" date first, not dinner - including liel lowndes.

Anything that you say or show that have slightlest "weirdo" hint, will be blown up to the zeppelin's sizes....you show that pic, next her thought will be "he likes cross dressers.. no I am not going to marry a guy who liked that kind of stuff!" Try to think what message it will convey to her...

Flexible: Well, no one ever said you have to she to her you are flexible. You gotta be felxible for yourself, but what she actually gets is your message "I am flexibe, I am accomodating...I am despearte since I want to accomodate your every need.."
Do you think showing that you are desperate will earn you any points? Oh yeah, 1000 down.
I myself working on my own issue with being too nice or too flexibe... it is not easy to follow this concept every time.

I agree with "no dinner on teh 1st date". But I do not agree with action dates: what will you learn about her on an action date? that she can party well? Or that all guys they hit on her? Or maybe that she can throw darts better than you can?

I go for conversational dates... just simple walk and talk, sure some very young hottie would hate this, I dont care, I want to be able to talk to a girl I date and I want to learn at least somehting abotu her on the 1st date. I suppose you do not hit on some 20ish hotties who want only to party and have a good time.
So you gotta learn more of convo skills. In my opinion, you already got all tools for that: outgoing, can talk a lot, smart...
man, you just have to apply this stuff in a correct way!

 

[ogre]

she's 28.

the "party" is actually a rock band performance worked into an off-broadway play with audience interaction. so maybe I gave the wrong impression by saying "party"

anyway it's 5PM I'm sending my message now, without any wierd pics. it's true, one hint of weirdness can set off the creep alarm...

 

[al77]

Originally posted by ogre
the "party" is actually a rock band performance

28 is a decent age, she should not be into praties too much.
But let me ask you: you think a movie for the 1st date would be good? No? Why? Aha, because you won't figure out anything about her, you won't say anything about yourself...

So how any kind of super great performance would be different?
Ok, it is much much better than movies, but still you wont talkto her much, plus she'll some other "hungry dudes" salivating around...

Lets start from the begining: what kind of message you want to convey by taking her to the performance?
You like rock? (She alread knows that.. it is no big deal for raising kids you have a lot of single friends? well... friends are good, but why they are still single? Social proof would work they all married! You want to impress her? You dont want to impress her by somthing external as dinner or rock band. Thats a bit shallow.
You want to show off with her to your firends? She would not think it is a great idea espcialy since you do not know each other well enouhgh even to go on the second (3rd, 4rd whatever) date.
You see my point? you gotta think first, what do you want to convey to her...

I for example do not take girls to anything untill 3rd date.
I talk on the first, and probably go for some nice coffee on the second. So I convey "Hey, I am not gong to impress you, I am not into that kind of things. I am not into "super-duper cool stuff".. I am into your.. personality. I want to get to know you more. I want to tell you somehting about myself too".

Some people say it is too simple...again, it depends who you are looking for: party girls or some decent dating material who will appreciate your personality first. It all depends on your goal.