Female - Looking for honest advice

[AlphaGirl78]

EDIT: I will also say something else. Men want to feel needed by their woman to 'slay the dragons' so to speak. If we don't get a chance to do that (because you're so much better at doing it yourself) we don't feel necessary, and so we won't fall in love with you. We'll lose interest. I am wondering if you are coming across as so uber-capable that you might not be giving the men you are dating the chance to do that for you.

I do think this is probably a problem. I have noticed it before. How can i come accross as still needing help .. which i do! without seeming .. helpless. Because i don't think helpless is attractive either. I think if a guy found helpless attractive ... we wouldn't work out. I don't want to mis-lead either.

Can you site examples of this for me. Like a clever way to pull it off.

 

[AlphaGirl78]

If you think i'm going to sit there while you flirt with other men AND take advantage of them by accepting a drink knowing full well their intentions and that there's 0% chance you're taking things any further with them, you are kidding yourself.

There is more to that sentence i should have made clear. I won't lie .. i use the fact i am a woman in my job. Subtle flirting helps me. It is my advantage because i don't golf. What i meant by that statement is a guy who can tell the difference between me working a deal VS. me actually flirting. Someone who is confident enough to know i am not flirting in honesty. I am trying to make this clear without writing a novel.

 

[AlphaGirl78]

This what bewilders me about a lot of women - they acknowledge that "dropping hints" does not work in their attempts to attract men or deal with men at a personal level, YET they still do it.
How remarkable that a woman who posts as "an AlphaGirl", who has been raised througout all those heady years of " woman power " and " you can have it all girl " still promotes and lives a life of "subtlety" in her dealings with men. I am wondering how she deals with her 50 odd employees - with subtlety or directness ? From my own experience - supervising employees requires a highly directive approach. Any middle manager knows that "dropping hints" to employees is just plain dumb.

Further more she knows from experience that it does not work with men, yet she still does it "being that I am a woman " ?

*Jophil shakes head in disbelief*::crazy:

I totally agree. I totally do not do that at my job. i am VERY direct and blunt at my work place.

I think it has to do with fear of rejection. At work i don't take a rejection of an idea personally. But if i was direct with a guy in a romantic situation and was rejected, i would take it personally. Women use subtle to test waters. But it's true most men don't read subtle. I bet all of you have had women who had crushes on you and tested you subtly ... they got nothing and moved on. YOU HAD NO IDEA IT EVEN HAPPENED. I had this happen a year back. I had had a huge crush on someone. Thought i had dropped enough hints, never got any feedback and read it as if they were not interested. A long time later i ran into the guy who in a drunken moment professed he had had a huge crush on me at that time. I told him how i had flirted with him and he hadn't responded. He had NO idea i was doing any of that. he thought i was being nice. LOL

 

[guru1000]

Maybe you should date upward. Go after those CEO types eh?

CEO types or producers would not be interested in a CUTE girl. They go after 9's and 10's and why shouldn't they.

She has a very small selection of men to choose from if she continues to LEAD. The only available men will not be attractive enough to her as they are not real men.

Middle ground would be her best bet. Income range 100K-250K. Usually men in this range have enough natural conviction to direct and lead. In populated cities, men like this are dime a dozen to find.

 

[azanon]

Women use subtle to test waters. But it's true most men don't read subtle. I bet all of you have had women who had crushes on you and tested you subtly ... they got nothing and moved on. YOU HAD NO IDEA IT EVEN HAPPENED. I had this happen a year back. I had had a huge crush on someone. Thought i had dropped enough hints, never got any feedback and read it as if they were not interested.

You're reading into things again. Sometimes when you get nothing, what happened was we realized you were flirting, and we simply weren't interested. I give off nothing when I'm not interested.

 

[AlphaGirl78]

You're reading into things again. Sometimes when you get nothing, what happened was we realized you were flirting, and we simply weren't interested. I give off nothing when I'm not interested.

Which is exactly how i read it until he professed that drunken night he had had a crush on me. I told him i flirted and thought he wasnt interested. He said he had no idea i was flirting. Maybe i am too subtle. The farthest i will usually go is touching on the arm. If i don't get a touch back, i figure not interested.

 

[jophil28]

I totally agree. I totally do not do that at my job. i am VERY direct and blunt at my work place.
. I had this happen a year back. I had had a huge crush on someone. Thought i had dropped enough hints, never got any feedback and read it as if they were not interested. A long time later i ran into the guy who in a drunken moment professed he had had a huge crush on me at that time. I told him how i had flirted with him and he hadn't responded. He had NO idea i was doing any of that. he thought i was being nice. LOL

Now we are getting somewheres here. So you KNOW that droppings hints and subtle flirting does not work with attracting men BUT you stiil plan to go ahead and do it BECAUSE you are afraid of being PERSONALLY rejected if you are more direct and he does not retiurn your advances.. So instead of taking a chance and being more DIRECT you prefer remain playing those non-productive "subtle" games that a lot of women use with similar results to you?
In essence, you have chosen Regret over Rejection.

The "subtle flirting" stuff does NOT work reliably on men for two reasons.
We men dislike, and distrust, ambiguity in any area of our life. Our convos with other men are direct,to the point, and are all about exchanging precise and clear infornattion. Men talk to each othet to report facts or gain knowledge.
WE are not going to change our ways of thinking, talking and exchanging thoughts to suit a woman's need to be subtle so that she does not have to take a risk.

IF you are trying to communicate with a man about your feelings toward him, you have to penetrate his shield which attempts to remove or discard obscurity. If a man is confused he will either discard the source or he MAY seek clarity BUT only if his interest level in the subject is high enough.

Secondly , many women flirt for dubious reasons other that attraction( in fact I bet that you do too sometimes)
I am talking about acting in a provocative or mildly sexualized way with a man to "get your own way". Men know that women frequently do this and it is not well regarded. WE see it as devious and manipulative. WE have a few perjorative words to describe such " ladies"
So, how is a man to know that you are GENUINELY romantically interested in him AFTER he has seen numerous women pull those "sexy flirty " stunts over and over.

You see what i am getting at here ?

How do you do business with the men in your workplace- I am talking about the guys at your level or one level up or down. ??
Is it all business or do you mix it up with some girly flirty tactics?
.........
Just my thoughts on your dilemma .

There is another issue which a few of the guys here have touched on but lets talk again on a later post.

 

[-HPNOTIQ-]

HAHA...If Puerto Rican Lover was still here, he'd call you an attention wh*re for posting your bio, salary, and life story here. Being that it is a guy's forum. I , however, welcome the women posters here who've given great advice (penkitten, iqqi).

I've read pretty much all the responses here and I think your story is the same as any woman. It doesn't matter if you're a quarter million dollar a year CEO or a minimum wage barista at Starbucks. How many of your girlfriends have complained that the guy they are dating changed after a few weeks/months.

When they first dated, he was this ****y and confident sexual aggressive guy. And after a few months, he turns into a needy, insecure pile of goo that spends more time on his Xbox than his woman. Does your story sound isolated? I don't think so.

IMO - The problem you have with a man's jealousy or envy is just magnified by your career. I'd stop trying to convince yourself that your career is the reason men are intimidated by you, and start realizing that men in general are just brain washed by a world filled with media that p*ssyfies us. From love songs, to movies, to teddy bears and all that crap - men have become soft. And you are on this site to realize that there are men out there who truely are MEN enough to be proud of their b*lls and grab em and slang them around.

I'll tell you the same as I would tell any DJ here if they had your problem. Just go out there and enjoy life. Date...have fun...make mistakes...learn. You'll most likely find a guy that fits your mold eventually....and when you find him...you'll probably end up turning AFC. Oh the irony.

 

[Max Power]

I just want to point out that once again we have female posting a lame question here and we have no shortage of advice while borderline suicidal males' quesitons on thie forum ignored.

 

[jophil28]

I just want to point out that once again we have female posting a lame question here and we have no shortage of advice while borderline suicidal males' quesitons on thie forum ignored.

That is a tad hysterical . To whom are you referring re. these alleged "borderline suicidal males" ??

 

[azanon]

Which is exactly how i read it until he professed that drunken night he had had a crush on me. I told him i flirted and thought he wasnt interested. He said he had no idea i was flirting. Maybe i am too subtle. The farthest i will usually go is touching on the arm. If i don't get a touch back, i figure not interested.

Kino's perfect for a woman. If I like you and I get kino'ed by you, I'll bite.

 

[IronStar]

You're reading into things again. Sometimes when you get nothing, what happened was we realized you were flirting, and we simply weren't interested. I give off nothing when I'm not interested.

Yup. I think you'd have to be borderline telepathic to know a woman is flirting with you. The funny thing is other women can spot it a mile off, when I was married I remember my ex telling me some woman was checking me out in the supermarket, damned if I noticed (I was more interested in what to have with my steak that night)

I'd be more impressed if a woman, rather than flirting, did something for me. Anything. If I'm in a bar, she'd tell me she'd noticed my beer was running low & get me a refill. Better still, she'd just get me another beer.

 

[RedPill]

Not sure if this applies here or not, but I think most women - including many otherwise highly intelligent women - are very naïve with regard to the degree that physical attraction factors into male desire. Thus, they have a difficult time putting a critical eye to their own body image.

That said, hot, but vacuous, purposeless, uneducated women with bad attitudes and unpleasant, unfeminine personalities are a dime a dozen. I am not interested in any sort of relationship outside of making fukk with these types. This could be considered the equivalent of all the AFC males who've learned to project false confidence.

One must have discerning eyes and ears to detect incongruence between the traits others project and the traits which they genuinely possess. The world is full of fakers, frauds, posers & pvssies.
Two large components of success in any life endeavor are having the ability to sniff out bullshyt and the confidence to dissociate from non-accountable people.

 

[thedeparted]

I just want to point out that once again we have female posting a lame question here and we have no shortage of advice while borderline suicidal males' quesitons on thie forum ignored.

Let 'em jump.

 

[thedeparted]

Which is exactly how i read it until he professed that drunken night he had had a crush on me. I told him i flirted and thought he wasnt interested. He said he had no idea i was flirting. Maybe i am too subtle. The farthest i will usually go is touching on the arm. If i don't get a touch back, i figure not interested.

That's called beer goggles. He ignored you before b/c he wasn't interested. But he'd do you drunk.

Look. Women have HUGE egos. I never in my life told one I didn't find her attractive. I bet no guy here ever did that. It's too cruel. We'd sooner claim our house burned down, our dog got cancer, and we moved to Alaska to take over our late Uncle's ice cube factory than admit that we never asked you out b/c your nose is weird. And since women firmly believe that men are stupid -- and they are still "average" at 200 lbs -- it's easy for us to feign ignorance.

As an example, my next door neighbor brought me a glass of wine one Sat. night and told me to return the glass later. I left it at her door the next day. Another Sat. night she happens to come out her door just after me in a nightgown and gives me the 3 second stare. I just smile and get the elevator. I know what she's telling me. But do you know what she's telling her girlfriends?

"This guy is sooooo dumb. He brought the wine glass back the next day! He thinks I'm just being nice to him or something. What do I have to do to get this oaf to notice me already, knock him on the head?"

And the brutally honest answer is: lose ten years and get a new pair of tits.

So enough with the you-are-too-subtle-for-stupid-men crap already. That is a line of garbage that Oprah sold you. Start learning to read actions rather than words. And consider looking at a MAN'S BODY LANGUAGE. You will discover a whole new world you didn't know existed.

 

[iqqi]

AlphaGirl. One of the many things that they teach here is that women SAY they want one thing, yet it is the opposite that works. This goes both ways.

Do not come on too strong to a man, ever. I just had an experience with this last night. There was me, then there was the overtly "I want to fvck you" eye contact chic, who made a move on the dude I was talking to right in my face.

My style is intelligent, witty, and subtle flirting... with the "it won't be easy, but it will be worth it" vibe.

The overt chick had me for a minute because any man will be flattered to know a hot chick wants to fvck him right there in the bar. But it was obvious the guy was just humouring her after a minute, and with that I was able to "get back in" so to speak, ...and lets just say in the end the chick lost big time, she looked very stupid and easy, and left with her tail between her legs and her dignity on the floor.

If I wouldn't have been there, yes she would have got her man. For one night only.

Men must pursue. A man who is not pursuing you, even when you have displayed interest, is not INTERESTED ENOUGH. Men are not that stupid that you have to knock them upside the head with your intent. If a man is interested, he will LOOK for signs from you. If he is too dumb to recognize your flirting, then do you really think he will be able to handle a woman like you? Don't you want a man who WANTS you? A man who can STIMULATE you?

Most likely you are just in a rut, and not casting a big enough net, also. Work on the net.

 

[STR8UP]

"This guy is sooooo dumb. He brought the wine glass back the next day! He thinks I'm just being nice to him or something. What do I have to do to get this oaf to notice me already, knock him on the head?"

And the brutally honest answer is: lose ten years and get a new pair of tits.

Hehe.

I think I'm pretty good at catching IOI's and ferreting out the AW's from the mix, but as was mentioned before, women are WAAAAY more attuned to picking up subtle hints of interest when it's coming from another woman to a man, ESPECIALLY a man who SHE is interested in as well.

 

[cedd]

here is the proof that being an "Alpha girl" doesnt entail being secure...

you re asking us how you to get a REAL MAN (and keep him as well), but I suggest you to ask yourself how to be a REAL WOMAN first...

cheers

 

[LovelyLady]

you wrote: "Or guy number 2, the guy who claims to want to be with an "Alpha Female" but then has problems with it later. This type of guy is the worst to me because i am very clear about who i am. I am not an attention *****, i have my own life which i happen to enjoy. Usually about 4-6 months into the relationship everything that they originally liked about me, they no longer care for. I am trying to figure out how to attract a guy who is looking for a more self sufficant woman."
"

What are your qualities they are saying they liked at first but don't later?

Perhaps this question got lost in the shuffle of all the responses you have received? Please respond?

 

[Interceptor]

Looking back over my post, I feel that it may have been misinterpreted as a condemning of AlphaGirl, which was not my intention. Since I do not wish to judge nor condemn anyone, if this was misintepreted as a personal attack, I am sorry. It was not my intention.
I sometimes use the word "You" in the figurative sense, instead of using 'one'.
So this was not my intent to point fingers at AlphaGirl.
However, please understand that my post was meant to be pointed, to draw attention to the characteristics that are so prevalent in many 'independent' women today. And all these women seem to have the same problems,and unfortunately, the same BLIND spots. They cannot recognize HOW they are affecting the men in their lives. And the main reason almost always comes back to the 'I dont need a man!" notion.
It's great for a woman to be independent. But to be dominant and not showing an understanding of her femenine vulnerability comes across as imbalanced to men.
THIS is what I was trying to get across. Because I see the Urgency in these critical situations. They don't.
If we can all start to view Male and Female dynamics in the Magnetic perspective, we can see better just WHAT EXACTLY it IS that ATTRACTS us or REPELS us.
This is CRUCIAL to understand.

To reflect on oneself and try to see what one is doing to attract and repel, serves everyone better.
Women must understand that men want them to be successful and independent. But not to the point where they gleefully shout out to the world how much 'they dont need a Man'.
Look, I'll be honest...there are few things are absolutely REPULSIVE to a man than a woman proclaiming how she doesnt NEED a man.
Ill say it again, it is an Attraction KILLER. You will keep us away in droves.

Again, that attitude is a subcommunication that REPELS masculine men.
We sense it.
We see you are self satisfied and well....ok....good luck with that, since you dont want us around....
THAT is how we interpret it.

Men do not want to be competing with a woman who wants to dominate everything. After a while, if we're with you, we'll tend to just shut up and let you have your way, since we feel so uncomfortable and awkward competing with you, we want peace, and eventually a lot of those men just want peace and let you do whatever you want....which is exactly what you dont NEED.
So these well meaning but soft backboned men, just want some peace,and want to keep you happy, thinking that you NEED to dominate everything...
But that is what REPELS YOU.
So both are left unsatisfied.
And I also dont believe that the notion of not teling a man what he is doing wrong or what is repelling you, or not telling him what you DO want is working for ANYONE.

"well...he's a Man, he should know ...and I aint gonna tell him sh*t, because he should know, he's a man, and well.. if he dont know, then I aint telling him...yada yada..."

IT AINT WORKING.

If you dont assert what you want, need , and like, and what you dont Want, neither HE nor YOU will truly GAIN and learn and GROW.
You're left resenting him for not being psychic, and he's left with wondering just what the Hell is happening.
It doesnt work!!!
It is OK to tell a guy that you're not happy, and there are certaing things he isnt doing or understanding. It is OK.
If you treat him with respect as an adult man, believe me, he can be way closer to self realizing himself as a masculine man who takes charge.
Perhaps you may want to recognize that many men do not spend much of their lives daydreaming about romance, and you can appreciate that a lot of guys just go by what Hollywood says is romantic, not by what YOU personally enjoy. We are not wired like you, so we approach dating differently. Are you ok with that? Sometimes what we believe you may enjoy is not what you want. Its ok to tell us that.
But treat us with respect.
You dont have to 'raise' us. Or treat us like children.
You'd be surprised how a Man can wake up and assume his masculine dominance and leadership role when you communicate to him as a Mature, confident and Masculine man you wish him to be.


Believe me, we would rather you treat us as respectable, mature gentlemen, who can take constrcutive criticsm, than some dim witted goof who isnt even worth you explaining your specific and personal wants and desires with him.


So, I hope my post isnt interpreted as a personal attack. It is meant to help. It is also meant to help the lurking female posters who also may be in your same shoes.

Good luck. I hope this helps.

Interceptor

AphaGirl,
one thing to remember is that one of the KEY , Critical Traits that Men find attractive in a Femenine woman, is her Vulnerability.
Men are attracted to Femenine women who are comfortable with their Vulnerability.

You must think in terms of Magnetism and Polarities here.

Femenine men are drawn to Masculine/Dominant women, because they are attracted to that which they feel they do not have.These men are looking for their masculinity, and validation of their masculinity.
In every relationship there is a Yin and Yang mechanism. Most men feel comfortable in the Yang, and most women feel comfortable in the Yin.
But when you reverse the roles, you have disfunction sometimes.
It is a reversed or inversed mechanism.
But these women, though masculine and dominant, are still women and hetero.
Thus, they are still attracted to masculinity and dominance.
So it takes an ULTRA masculine man to magnetize and make the polarity switch for her.
But these men are not looking for masculine/dominant women to polarize. (Hence the phrase all these inverted women repeat "where have all the men gone?" and the answer to that is they're here, just not looking for a manly female like YOU.)
EDIT: This is not meant to refer to you personally, AG.

They're attracted to those femenine women who are Comfortable with their VULNERABILITY.

Men DO NOT WANT to BE with WOMEN whom are COMPETING with them.

You're not flaunting your money, you're flaunting your invulnerability, and your not needing a man in your life.
EDIT: This is not an attack. It is an impression that I have seen women do all too often. They are very proud of their success, and believe many men want to know about it. But honestly, we dont. Not in the way you think it will.

When you advertise those things, you are advertising attraction killers.

"Im tough, dominant, and independent and I dont need a Man!"


Not sexy. Not attractive.
Thats a slogan to STAY SINGLE.

You push us away with that, not attract us.

No wonder you dont find satisfaction in the dating world.
EDIT: Thats just tough love, AG. Not a personal attack. Believe me when I say this is meant to wake you up and help you. I have personally seen WAyyyyy too many women experience this exact same thing.