Economic Collapse Inevitable...how to protect ourselves??

[TooColdUlrick]

This is what I already stated - it will affect their economy thus the reason they hesitated,so far, to collect what is owed but they are slowly selling their dollar reserves for Euros and other currencies! No one is "FORCING" - the bonds are bonds and are a debt owed by contract!!!

Simple – in our constitution it is our congress who is responsible to control the purse and if you control the purse why are we paying interest to private individuals i.e. international "banksters"??? We paid $409 billion in “interest” only in 2006!!!! Why? Just print the money ourselves at zero interest!!


Central bank policy is controlled by individuals and these individuals have control over the world economic system and can create booms and busts through monetary policy – as they created the depression!!!!!

There are basic underlying economic principles but those who control monetary policy is the true factor to look at that determines our well-being or our demise – we are deeply tied to their system and control! This is the economic Matrix – that controls are political Matrix!!

The Chineese and Indian boom is good for them Not USA !! Half of our GDP growth is military!! Without military, shyt movies, and shyt music, junk food/soda and other non-durables our GDP is not impressive!!! Especially when you consider that these corpoeations are taking their money outside of the US – and their workforce!!!! Their corporate output gets counted as USA GDP but they are really global entities and have no loyalty to the USA – they get preferred tax breaks here – because they are the ones who control our politicians!

Those who control the money rule!! We do not live in a democracy – a relatively small elite rule!

The housing boom is a artificial construct - it absolutely produces nothing of value – just more false wealth due to low interest rates!! A contrived event to keep dollars flowing and consumer spending alive!!

We don’t manufacture things of value any more – real things – not shyt! We have become financial manipulators - hedge funds and derivatives which "derive value from something else" - HUH???? We are the wizard behind the curtain - the stock market is the biggest fallacy of wealth!

A depression is merely a severe recession measure by GDP output! But it doesn’t matter what the official definition is – a depression can be created tomorrow by those who control the money supply to fit their agenda of eventually narrowing it down to one currency and thus one government! It is all about control (THE MATRIX) – consolidation of wealth and power in fewer hands will bring about this final global control – the ultimate agenda!

And, of course, when the collapse happens we will blame so-called "terrorists" with beards who hide in caves and produce nothing, for the calamities that befall us!!!!

Read some books - but not "text" books!!!!!!

"Text' books are controlled books!!!!

nearly everything you said is complete nonsense. text books by Rosie O'Donnell?

 

[CLOONEY]

My point was, Real GDP movement is the obvious, and best measure to determine how an economy is ultimately performing once its all said and done.

$595 for a one day seminar? Think I will skip, for Treasury, I work with some of the best, and get much more knowledge (from some of the best in the business) for free! And Im sure books such as Buffettology will give the average person a far better base for equity market investment.

 

[A-Unit]

Re:

http://ml-implode.com/


http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article882.html

-Must read article on how the securitization of debt (the conversion of debt instruments into investment products) will have a greater effect than professionals are letting on.


http://www.realtytrac.com/freeSearchResult.asp

-Search State.
-Then Search County.
-See how many are bank-owned, auctioned, or preforeclosure

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rLYph0J7vc&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Frealestatedecline%2Ecom%2F


--------------------------------------------

I have family and clients in R/E.
Fortunately, nobody has LOST a home. However, clients working at these predatory lenders HAVE lost their jobs. Government officials showed up and forced their operations to close. Other's, saw divisions totally whacked. Friends, they've seen their business model. Fortunately they work for reputable lenders who do very HEAVY and TIGHT appraisals, so that it wards off predatory lending, but how many banks are THAT honest?
It's no different than what happened with the stock market. People who shouldn't be flipping, were flipping. People who should NEVER get an ARM, go one.

And yet, some people are foolish enough to believe good forces are at work for the benefit of the public. Pssha, right. Did anyone ever stop to think the news outlands pander to the average america, of which I must say, actually isn't the guys here. The average american is either elderly AND/OR uneducated (i.e. no college, or just plain dumb). As you read the stats, you come to realize only greater portions of the country will become elderly, hence the Social Security Crisis. News outlets pander to that subsection because they are what keep this artificial consumption machine running. Everything we have in the economy is based on perceived values, and because PERCEPTION is REALITY, spinning and using TV to keep the illusion as is, is in fact, the focal point of news. Not to report "news", but to report an ANGLE, an EMOTION, an IDEA, a SPIN, A FEELING. Something to color your viewpoint on the country. Why do you think most people have the same opinion, or at least 1 of only 2 available opinions? Why do we only have 2 potential presidential candidates? Is it because there's only 2 great selections, or because they have the money to build up the perception they need to win, or force the other guy to lose?

Read Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds.

We haven't learned a thing from history, except that we don't know jack squat crap. We repeat the same problem over again, in a different market. We constantly fight some war overseas, and never learn that war solves nothing, except that we now get great weapons to annihilate the entire planet, instead of just a city, and we have the audacity to say "we're intelligent." Ya know, I may just believe we did descend from chimps or animals, because the depths of human error, stupidity, and potential evil astound me every day.

That's why I also wonder...why do AFC's, who could potentially be the GOOD guys, subvert their true desires? All these a-holes, with no consciences run around, taking your women, take your jobs, your money, and lie in the news, and guys who are honest, straight foward, and worthwhile, shrink from that, not feeling good enough? You should feel good and capable on the basis alone that a good number of people aren't...'all there.' What the country NEEDS and won't take...is more spirituality/religion. And not of the kind where you force some dam commandments or rules on people, but rather...enlightenment....like

"Gee, well all live on the same planet, and no one had a say in being born on this planet, so maybe I should respect ALL like, because who am I to judge whether its allowed to live or now? Who am I to inflict harm on someone else's life? Who am I to tell other people how to live, to love, to fvck, to spend their money, to lie, to cheat, to steal?"

What we need is a case of the Boondock Saints from Boston.

The economy is so interacted, that the little man still carries the country, through his tax dollars, through his pension funds and mutual fund investments, and finally, through his consumption. It's all on the pillars of the average man. The rich may create jobs, but those jobs are then worked by the average man, who in return buys the products from the rich owners or partners. Granted, in a Randian way, nobody forces their purchase, but the economy is kept high flying, at a high standard of living, that apparently seems to be breaking people in half with job losses, home mortage failures, and gas prices. Nobody should aspire to be mediocre or average, and we should all be educated enough to rise above life's circumstances, but you can't shy away from what are perceived facts.

I can't but feel like America's a day care nursery, or a chimpanzee zoo, and somehow, they all got into a bunch of crap...and the people running the zoo or nursery are saying..."How the flucks did that happen? We put them behind doors and bars. Gave them food on our watches, only good food. Took away all toys. Put them in diapers, feeding them at specificed times to prevent messing. And even wiped their arses. AND YET, they managed to escape, steal a diesel gasoline truck, a few thousand bottles of tequila, and drive it into a nitro-glycerine plant. Oh well, that's our responsibility, guess we'll bail them out again, even though it hurts."


A-Unit

 

[TooColdUlrick]

My point was, Real GDP movement is the obvious, and best measure to determine how an economy is ultimately performing once its all said and done.

$595 for a one day seminar? Think I will skip, for Treasury, I work with some of the best, and get much more knowledge (from some of the best in the business) for free! And Im sure books such as Buffettology will give the average person a far better base for equity market investment.

sure, but the path to real GDP is through productivity. you could have a country whose nominal GDP is 15% with 10% inflation and zero productivity, and another country whose nominal GDP is 5% with 2% inflation and 4% productivity. the former has higher real GDP than the latter, but on paper, which one is healthier?

 

[TooColdUlrick]

The economy is so interacted, that the little man still carries the country, through his tax dollars, through his pension funds and mutual fund investments, and finally, through his consumption. It's all on the pillars of the average man. The rich may create jobs, but those jobs are then worked by the average man, who in return buys the products from the rich owners or partners.
A-Unit

not entirely. 50% of income earners in this country pay no federal income tax. the top 50% pay 98%. the top 1 percent pay nearly 40%. yes, the little man is consuming and makes the rich man rich, but the little man is also getting a free ride for roads, bridges, highways, education, justice, defense (of which tremendous technologies are derived from, including something called the Internet), etc, etc. (the quality of those things is a matter of government's spending habits...another thread i'm sure).

in the US, it is the average man that becomes a millionaire. 80% of all millionaires in this country are first generation millionaires. in europe, it's reversed. 80% are second, third...10th generation millionaires.

 

[Gaucho]

Productivity is not entirely quantifiable. Therefore not as reliable indicator. Harder to measure.

Thanks

 

[Zonder]

Just a question for all these guys who dont need an economics degree to be economists

I bet you had a blast with the answers too:

Just print the money ourselves at zero interest!!

Read some books - but not "text" books!!!!!!

"Text' books are controlled books!!!!

:crackup:


What do you have against the “text.” Comics any better? I don’t think Spiderman would be the go-to guy when it comes to understanding the economy.

I’ve read some of your post and they make sense. But that’s not how the economy works. People without a degree try to make degrees look useless. People with degrees tend to enjoy having them. Self-taught economists are a bit like the self-taught engineers. They are few and far between.

You know what the difference between a textbooks and “The Fantastic Four” book is? It’s that “text books” make you learn stuff you don’t want to learn. Wanna learn calculus? I bet you don’t. But you need calculus to even begin to understand the economy. And the degree and the “text books” teach you exactly that. Calculus and formulas you don’t want to learn.


You know the law of supply and demand? Economics 101. The more you have of something the less you want it. It’s a basic principle of economics, life, chicks, everything. You know it and have it all figured out.

But let’s say you’re trying to figure out something useful: by how much your demand will increase if you reduce the dates from 4 to 3 a week. Or how bad is the national debt for the economy. Yes, it’s better to have no debt that a lot of debt? But by how much? One book (but not a “text book”) tells you it’s a huge problem and another book (but not a “text book”) tells you that it’s not. You can’t know the answer without math. It’s just impossible. You can’t tell the difference between the two books. You end up siding with the author you like best.

For that you need calculus. It’s not as hard as most people think, BTW. One look at the equations will prove beyond any doubt which are the key indicators of the health of the economy and what their movement indicates. It turns out that debt by itself it’s not a good indicator at all. It’s better than no indicators but on its own it doesn’t mean much. So you end up thinking that the national debt is that huge problem when in fact 60% of the GDP is quite normal.

in the US, it is the average man that becomes a millionaire. 80% of all millionaires in this country are first generation millionaires.

You know what a millionaire means? Scenario 1: you inherit a house. Real estate “bubble” makes you a millionaire. Scenario 2: you make 100K salary and save or invest only 20% of it. By the time you retire you are a millionaire. Scenario 3: you start a small business. You luck out and become a millionaire (in assets) while your business is STILL small and giving you barely 60-70K yearly income.

Any of these scenarios can be combined. If you inherit a small house you can still become a millionaire on a meager 50K salary. A million is not much if you have your act together. 100K in salary can be achieved with reasonable knowledge and people skills. You don’t even have to be one of the best. Good is enough. In some areas this is barely above the amount you need to live comfortably but then again some people manage on minimum wage.

It’s not that hard to become a millionaire, even starting from scratch. I don’t find that statistic especially illuminating.

actually you need a Phd in Economics to understand Economics. what you learned in undergraduate is chump change. a certain person who shall remain nameless (eh...hem) does have such a degree.

Even some people with a Bachelor’s agree with that. But then again that’s what makes discussions such as this one so entertaining.

*you can take my all-day seminar on Capital Markets and Fed Policy if you would like. it's $595.00, geared toward investment bankers and hedge fund dudes.

As opposed to taking an actual University Course for half that price? Hehe, I’ll pass as well.

50% of tax filer's do not pay federal income tax.

Where did you get that statistic from? Are you referring to various tax shelters and accounting wizardry? I don’t know it for a fact, but most people are working people who pay their taxes. I don't actually see any viable alternative for them.

--this economy is not on the verge of collapse. there is absolutely nothing to indicate this, forward looking 20 years
i am very pessimistic of the future. . we are going the way of Europe and Canada, and may God help us all.

Canada and most of Europe have free medical care. Canada has a steadily growing budgetary surplus that they use to gradually reduce their debt. All that happens in spite of the huge medical bill and aging population. They also have a bunch of (probably useless) social programs that are at least marginally helping out.


The USA has a rapidly growing budgetary deficit and national debt. ALL of the USA wants to go the way of Europe and Canada. And don’t tell me it’s because they don’t have Ph. D’s. We want to be able to pay our bills. We want to have reasonable income after having worked for 50 years for this country. We don’t want to “cut our own throats,” as you put it. You are advocating the point of view of the elite. The ones who can pay their own medical bill and won’t die a few years earlier for lack of drugs and professional care. Yes, if you are rich you don’t need the government to support you in your old age. If you have the capacity to do all of the above analysis you surely don’t believe you are the average American that needs the government to protect him.

The USA can easily recover because the economy is so dynamic. Japan was incredibly low GDP growth from the early nineties until last year. They had policies and attitudes that discouraged spending. We, on the other hand, are all big spenders. We spend more than we make as a matter of principle. 20% tips are the new 15%. If you want to be cool (or have been reading too many DJ Forum posts) you give 25-30%. Why does the guy that walks backward and forward for 5 hours a day, 4 days a week make more than those working 9 to 5, 5 days and sometimes weekends. Because we’re paying his salary. And we’re all big spenders. In Europe (or the rest of the world except Canada) you can make a waiter extremely happy with a 7% tip. 10% and he thinks you’re godlike. At 15% he considers you an idiot or American.

This is why the economy will recover. It is moving at a breathtaking pace and with the proper fiscal policies it won’t even notice the debt some are so concerned about.

 

[Last Man Standing]

Economists always disagree with each other – what does this tell you? “Economics” is Not a science!!

An economic collapse WILL happen because we do NOT have a sound banking system, because it is based on fiat currency, controlled by a few individuals and not on market principles!

Economics equals politics!!! Our economy, as it stands today, would not exist without governments, economics = politics!! Your econ statistics are manipulated by the government – you don’t trust those numbers, do you??? Inflation is at 3 – 4% for the last 10 years - what a joke!! They obviously don’t count food, housing and energy – the essentials of life, in their formulas, do they?

Housing prices, and thus property taxes, water, and energy has increased 100% in the last 5 to 10 years – so somebody is lying!!! Oh yeah, you can still buy that DVD player for $36 from China so things are cheap!! Shyt trinkets are cheap but real living is not!! You are being bamboozled by the “expert” economists and their masters to whom they are beholden - the promotion of the economic Matrix!!!

Why did they stop publishing the M3 stat of the money supply? Is it because they don’t want naïve investors to see the flow away from the dollar to other currencies? Yep, thats it!! Transparency is no longer the rule!! Why not? When the currency is devalued you have inflation!!!!! The dollar is being devalued by the hour and for proclaimed “economists” not to see this means that they are ignorant, blind, or deceivers!!

Quit looking at manipulated statistics and look at reality!! Don't blame an adjective (terrorism) for our demise - blame the economists and the "Money Changers"!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[TooColdUlrick]

:
It’s not that hard to become a millionaire, even starting from scratch. I don’t find that statistic especially illuminating.

sure, it's not that hard, everyone does it, right?

:
As opposed to taking an actual University Course for half that price? Hehe, I’ll pass as well.

it is...and at a Top 10 university, with top people from investment banks and such.

:
Where did you get that statistic from? Are you referring to various tax shelters and accounting wizardry? I don’t know it for a fact, but most people are working people who pay their taxes. I don't actually see any viable alternative for them.

they pay payroll tax. add up a mortgage interest deduction, itemized deductions, exemptions, etc and a wage earner earning $50k-$60k with three kids pays little or no federal income tax.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/250.html

that's a rough idea of the stats, although they are calculating the average income tax burden of the bottom 50% at 2.97%.

:
Canada and most of Europe have free medical care.

nothing is free, especially medical care. somebody has to pay for it. i love this argument..."they (we) have FREE MEDICAL CARE"!!! lol. besides Canadians who want quality medical care, and can afford it, come to the US to get it. more Canadians get heart surgery in the US than Canadians in Canada.

 

[Last Man Standing]

Corporations and the rich don't pay taxes via tax evasion schemes - quit blaming the poor!!! This is The Matrix - it's all about control!!!! The unproductive few control the masses via controlling the money supply and they control those who do the work - don't be fooled - the poor do not create policy and thus have no power!!!!!

 

[TooColdUlrick]

Corporations and the rich don't pay taxes via tax evasion schemes - quit blaming the poor!!! This is The Matrix - it's all about control!!!! The unproductive few control the masses via controlling the money supply and they control those who do the work - don't be fooled - the poor do not create policy and thus have no power!!!!!

http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/250.html

once again, straight from IRS figures. read the second line of the first table. the top 1% of income earners pay 36.89% of all federal income tax.

wait a minute...i forgot...this is The Matrix!

:crazy: :crazy: :crazy:

 

[Last Man Standing]

Toocold - are you trying to deceive me?? One corporate entity - controlled by billionaires/trillonaires, who has a hundred billion dollar profit per quarter pays a few millions in taxes (many large Corps.pay nothing) is nothing "relatively" to the millions of poor who relatively pay more as a percentage to their income!!

You know - read scripture!! The woman who gives a dollar when she has 100 dollars total wealth in her possession gives more than the one who gives 100 times the amount but who has 1,000 times the amount of money!!!

We need necessities to live - do you understand these necessities?
Water, food, shelter, transport, energy.

The monied people have 100, 1,000, 1,000,000 times their necessities of life - guess what they do with the extra capital???

 

[TooColdUlrick]

Toocold - are you trying to deceive me?? One corporate entity - controlled by billionaires/trillonaires, who has a hundred billion dollar profit per quarter (oil) pays a few millions in taxes (most pay nothing) is nothing "relatively" to the millions of poor who relatively pay more as a percentage to income!!

You know - read scripture!! The woman who gives a dollar when she has 100 dollars total wealth in her possession gives more than the one who gives 100 times the amount but who has 1,000 times the amount of money!!!

We need necessities to live - do you understand these necessities?
Water, food, shelter!!! This is a fixed rate!! The monied people have 100, 1,000, 1,000,000 times their necessities of life - guess what they do with the extra capital???

lol...glad i had the foresight in 2000 to buy some Exxon stock. and whom do you think owns Exxon? yes...people do. even the average Joe with a 401k owns Exxon most likely, and has reaped benefits.

i don't have to guess what they do with their capital, i know what they do. they invest it and provide capital for business, whether it is equity or debt finance. they provide financing for jobs, which gives the average Joe who himself wants to be successful, a fighting chance, if Joe is prudent.

they also spend their wealth on cool things, like big mansions and yachts, vacations, cool MBZs and BMWs. who makes these 'things'? the average Joe. once again, if Joe is prudent, he too can work---stress---work---his way up the economic ladder.

but guess what? the average Joe is not prudent. he spends his money on a car that he cannot afford, racks up credit card debt, knocks up a biatch at a young age, doesn't further his education, spends $200 a month on Starbucks, and generally does the minimum amount..or less than that...necessary on the job and is unhappy to get his paycheck.

whose fault is that? it's Joes fault, and no one elses. Joe is not willing to do what it takes. period.

Joe turns 44 years old, looks back at his unsuccessful life, is still breaking even, or worse, and gets really really upset at those who are successful, and blames the world on his woes as he is filling up his gas guzzling SUV that someone FORCED him to buy, as he is biatching and moaning about the GREEDY OIL companies. then he goes and buys Lottery tickets.

Joe then talks about how such a wonderful, enchanting, paradise Europe is...how you can get a whole bunch of FREE stuff.

i busted my ass getting my biz started at a young age. i lived off Peanut Butter and Jelly sandwiches. i drove around in a fvcked up toyota corolla. all of this while i was doing my Graduate work.

Joe is a whiner and complainer and a victim. Joe blames his lack of foresight on others. Joe is a 9-5'r who reads conspiracy novels about The Man...The Matrix...how it's all going to collapse, because that is what Joe wants. Joe complains about how this world is controlled by the relatively few. no shiat, Sherlock. the vast majority of the relatively few Americans who control America have put themselves into that position. contrary to what Joe wishes to believe, it was not due to inheritance. it was not due to 'getting lucky'. you create your own luck by calculated, educated risks, prudent decisions, hard work. luck is a function of all those things.

when the clock is at 3 seconds and the game is tied, TooCold wants the ball. Joe on the other hand, passes the ball because he is afraid to fail.

poor little Joe. i kinda feel a little sorry for him. NOT! Joe sits there and waits for permission to grab crumbs that is the American Apple Pie. the successful grab a slice of it before Joe blinks an eye. the very successful are the ones who are baking that pie. Joe should be an inspiration to all...on what NOT to do.

so for the younger dudes, go out there and grab yourself a big fat slice of that pie! it's just sitting there waiting, begging, for you to take it.


**the wealthy also dish out a tremendous amount of their "extra" capital to charity, btw.

 

[Bonhomme]

What annoys me is that poor people in the US pay any income taxes -- social security or whatever. Let alone paying more income taxes (by percentage) than many of the richest.

As far as I'm concerned, nobody netting 20K or less per year should pay any income-based taxes. I'm all fine with a flat rate adjusted to balance the budget above that.

 

[backbreaker]

unless you ar ein school, usually if you net less than 20k I would think you get something pretty nice back in april

 

[Zonder]

“Economics” is Not a science!! ...

The woman who gives a dollar when she has 100 dollars total wealth in her possession gives more than the one who gives 100 times the amount but who has 1,000 times the amount of money!!!

Your point is that an economist with a PhD is as good as an economist with a high school diploma? Economics is entirely based on math. High school doesn’t teach any.

Check out toocold's link. The bottom third pay no taxes. The bottom half pay 3%. The percentage gradually increases and the wealthiest people pay the most, "relatively." Using your example, the one who has 20 times the amount, pays 100 times more.

sure, it's not that hard, everyone does it, right?

the average Joe. once again, if Joe is prudent, he too can work---stress---work---his way up the economic ladder.

I think you answered your own question. Everyone CAN do it.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/250.html

With one link you proved half the posters on this thread wrong. Nice. Funny how everybody seems to think it's the other way around. I swear this information was not in any of my economics/finance books even though it is as essential as death and taxes. Oh wait, it is taxes. One more notch for your "they don't teach jack in Undergrad" opinion. This should be common knowledge, not a damn PhD level info.

nothing is free, especially medical care. somebody has to pay for it. i love this argument..."they (we) have FREE MEDICAL CARE"!!! lol. besides Canadians who want quality medical care, and can afford it, come to the US to get it. more Canadians get heart surgery in the US than Canadians in Canada.

The government (people) pays for it. And still their taxes are only marginally higher. And still they manage a budgetary surplus. The quality cannot be that bad. It is worse than in the US but I'm sure it's better than the alternative: dying or living the rest of your life in debt so that you can pay for the heart surgery.

Look at what almost every single politician is saying: I'll help introduce free health care. Both republicans and liberals. They seem to be just paying lip service to the masses, but this is their official stand. Every single politicial has been trying to set up free health care up and yet it magically doesn't work out, probably because of the financial liability it will introduce. Who are they kidding?

Look at any of the polls. What percentage of Amercians would want free health care? Amlost everyone. If you want quality you will still be able to pay extra for quality so no harm done. I'm actually pretty surprised you managed to oppose free health care and nobody else argued.

Canadians can afford it with budgetary surplus, so why not we? No medical expenses for the average Joe means happier and healthier people. Happier and healthier people means greater productivity and stronger economy. And it means happier and healthier people, of course.

 

[Gaucho]

Correct me if Im wrong, but a PhD is simply choosing an area of study and specialising, no? So how would that make a better economist, other than in the specific area of further studies undertaken?

This thread has turned into more a rant on society and capitalism, as opposed to the original post/topic.

Thanks

 

[Last Man Standing]

Speaking of foundations...have you heard of Norman Dodd and the reece committee? Here you go.. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4446387174017711777&q=norman+dodd

 

[TooColdUlrick]

Speaking of foundations...have you heard of Norman Dodd and the resse comittee? Here you go.. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4446387174017711777&q=norman+dodd

Before I could think of how I would reply to that statement, Mr. Gaither then went on to say, "Mr. Dodd, all of us who have a hand in the making of policies here, have had experience operating under directives, the substance of which is, that we use our grant-making power so as to alter life in the United States that it can be comfortably merged with the Soviet Union."

yeah...that conspiracy really worked.

that, and others, came in the wake of the McCarthy Communist paranoia in the 1950s.

i guess that you are implying that the super elite, strongly influence this world. like i said before...no shiat, Sherlock. they're the ones paying, they should have the bulk of the say in the matter. that is the way it has ALWAYS been and that is the way that it WILL ALWAYS BE. ironically, that IS Democracy...as long as everyone has a somewhat equal chance of moving up the ranks.

Joe Blow [e.g. Last Man Standing] has his one vote, usually uninformed. Mr. Power has his one vote, in addition to INFLUENCING others' votes.

if you or anyone elses wants a stronger say in how this country works, then get yourself into a position of power. btw, this does not mean $$$, or being a Mod on SoSuave. you have a whole lot of very influential people...on both sides of the isle...on both sides of the grand conspiracy...The Matrix of yours...who are quite powerful.

a better "conspiracy" for the demise of Democracy and the collapse of everything, which is actual fact, is The United Nations' Global Tax Proposals.

http://www.heritage.org/Press/Commentary/ed121803b.cfm

 

[SmoothTalker]

Just wanted to throw in my two cents. I agree that inflation figures are misleading. They typically do not count things such as housing, food, and energy, etc. I get their argument that those things are too volatile, but come on, in the last couple of years we've all raped by huge price increases in particularly those excluded fields. So those 2-3 percent figures we hear are BS for the average person in my opinion.

Also, I want to clear up a few things about those who thing Canada has it so great. I live in Canada, and let me tell you, no, we don't. I don't know where you hear your "they only pay a little bit more taxes" crap, but our taxes are HUGE compared to the US. Here in Ontario, as a general rule unless you're extremely poor the government takes about 40% of your income, then the provincial government gets some, and after that there's property taxes, etc which are also generally quite high. On top of that, when we buy ANYTHING with the fraction of our money remaining after taxes, we pay 14% sales tax. Oh, and don't forget to throw in about 30+ percent taxes on gas, (if you in the US thing gas is expensive, I don't think it's ever been cheaper here in at least a decade. Currently I pay about $4/US gallon, and generally the rest of the country pays much more.

And, throw in the fact that our public health system sucks. You cannot see a specialist without first seeing a GP, which takes forever. If you go to the emergency room, waiting 10 hours does not surprise people. And public health barely covers anything anyway, anyone that can afford it has private insurance to pay for drugs, dental, eye care, physiotherapy, etc, etc.

I know the grass always seems greener on the other side, but I just had to correct your perceptions a bit. Yeah, we have public health care, but it sucks, and we pay out the ass for it.