Economic Collapse Inevitable...how to protect ourselves??

[A-Unit]

Maybe Ron Paul Will Clear Things Up For You.

Does a political candidate who's been speaking his truth on all fronts count?

I cite the following link to a speech given by Mr. Paul which covers...

- His view that the Fed IS illegally operating as a central bank.
- How and why inflation is misleading
- How our economy grows through consumption, not better production, efficiency, etc.
- How fiat money (our money) is subject to wide volatility swings, debasement, possibly a crash.

http://v.mercola.com/blogs/public_blog/Ron-Paul-Blasts-The-Federal-Reserve-15994.aspx

Now, if that isn't "credible", I don't know what is. But I'll be darned I'm getting in an eco debate with people and credentials I don't know, can't verify, and want to say "this is the truth!!" When they're NOT in the loop. At best, all our info is mere interpretation OF what we're given, and what we are given is 3rd party info, at best.

In Gecko's words...IF you're NOT inside, you're outside. I dare say anyone here is Inside, with the knowledge of what's up and what's down.

RON PAUL 2008!

A-Unit

 

[Last Man Standing]

Toocold, you are missing the point, concentrate and study!

Per Norman Dodd (see link in my above post) here is what the most prominent bankers (Morgan Co. - "Rothschild front") in America said, after the 1929 crash….

”We will never see sound banking in the United States again!”

“Since the end of World War I, We [the bankers] have been responsible for the institutionalizing of conflicting interests, and they are so prevalent inside this country that they could never be resolved!!”

Yep – since 1913, private individuals in Europe, and not our congress, control our money and create economic booms and busts, and create and finance wars worldwide – a political and economic Coup ‘d etat has taken place – and they are using our tax dollars to pay for it by creating the IRS in the same year - 1913!!!

Without “sound” banking you will eventually have an economic collapse – for obvious reasons!!!

This is obvious for those in the know!!

The “elite”, who rule don’t pay any or ay little in taxes so your argument doesn’t make sense. So how do they get their vast sums of money– they manipulate and deceive and monopolize industries! What job does the queen of England do?

Regarding your Russia reference – yes we have become closer to Russia since 1990 – we were each other’s greatest enemy but all of a sudden we are “buddy buddy” now – remember perestroika – we are moving towards totalitarianism and they are moving towards capitalism! The US sovereignty is no longer since the creation of the North American Union – Canada-Mexico-United States! A collapse in the dollar will only hasten this development!

They have created the European Union already - now they just need to get Russia and the US to join in the cause as a united force to create an European global empire for world domination – the New World Order – that we have been hearing so much about!!! Are there those in Russia that are trying to prevent this union? Yep, they call them the “hardliners”. They need another great war (coming soon) to consolidate the earth into fewer hands – so domination and control of the masses will be easier!

Who is coordinating these unions – who has this power??


A-Unit – Ron Paul was mentioned on page 3 of this thread – he is the only American running for president…

bump, RON PAUL is our man. A republican libertarian that believes in abolishing the federal reserve, the IRS, and every other "big government" program that has been screwing the American citizen over.

"Dr. Ron Paul is a 10th-term Congressman, Veteran, flight surgeon, and a medical doctor specializing in obstetrics and has delivered more than 4,000 babies. He has earned the nickname "Dr. No" for voting against any bill he believes violates the Constitution; In the words of former Treasury Secretary William Simon, Dr. Paul is the "one exception to the Gang of 535" on Capitol Hill.

Check this out:

He's never voted to raise taxes.
He's never voted for a federal restriction on gun ownership.
He voted against the Patriot Act.
He voted against regulating the Internet.
He voted against the Iraq war
NOTE: Paul is the ONLY Rep. candidate to vote against Iraq. Clinton, Biden, Hagel, Edwards, etc. voted for and has since flip flopped like John Kerry...which cost him the 2004 Election.

As if these salient points aren't enough, Ron Paul wants to:

- Bring our troops home from Iraq & end the war
- Secure our borders from terrorism
- Stop illegal immigration & no amnesty for illegal immigrants
- Get rid of the IRS for fairer taxes for you
- Limit big government in your private affairs & lives

Vote Ron Paul for President in 2008!

 

[TooColdUlrick]

^^^ well...i proved wrong, your theory about the rich not paying taxes. you refuse to believe it. you were wrong on the government stopping the publication of "money" figures. rather, it was a merging of M3 with L. they're not going to stop publication of any figures. and the vid you posted is in regard to the grand conspiracy a good 60 years ago. you would think that with all of these smart, rich, bankers, they would be able to pull it off by now, yes? well...they're all dead right now, including dude in your vid.

as far as the banking system goes, it's pretty damn rock solid at the present moment. back during the S&L crisis of the late 80s, what did the Federal Reserve do? did the Fed, controlled by the conspiratorial european bankers in your fantasy world, let it get worse? nope, they fixed it.

the Fed successfully drove up the credit spread that banks earn, to encourage banks to get a higher risk free return, thereby shoring up their balance sheets. cost us a little deeper recession, but it fixed the banking system.

unlike Japan at the same time, which swept theirs under the rug and they are still paying for it. and of course China of today (big sell off in China this week). if you want a banking conspiracy, and a banking collapse, you really should focus your efforts on those two countries.

financial markets control money my friend. why? because markets are so sophisticated now that private investment companies can unwind anything the Fed does. thus, the Fed must act responsibly.

*today's lesson in "how it works".

the Fed is inflating the money supply, above and beyond what markets are comfy with? ok sure...bond markets sell off en masse, thereby driving yields up, throwing us into recession. stocks will fall also because the present value of the expected future earnings of stocks falls due to the higher yields (and thus stocks fall). in fact, all asset prices fall.


that is the way to create chaos. hasn't happened my friend. i'm going to take a wild guess and assume that you did not understand any of this. btw, you should not be talking about "money", because that term is fairly meaningless. it's "credit".

take some graduate econ courses in Stochastic Macroeconomics, and Financial Engineering. First get yourself a Masters in Applied Mathematics. then get back to me.

 

[backbreaker]

this is too funny.

what's basically happening in lamen's terms is A-Unit and LMS have a very simple theory... that the Federal Reserve is not Federal nor a reserve, that becuase our currency isn't backed by anything our economy is open to wide swings at any time, because all is based on perception and the fact that we really are still paying england when we pay our taxes... all of which are true and can be proven with quotes and facts.

What Toocoldtrick is saying basically is because i have a PHD in economics, you are stupid. You couldn't possibly understand underlays of ecnonomics like I do, because i'm smarter than you are.

When A-Unit and LMS give quotes and cite references, what you are supposed to do in any real debate, toocoldtrick reverts to name calling.


If you are going to debate, debate right. References. you just can't say I'm right because I'm right and you wouldn't have any idea of what I am talking about becuase I'm smarter than you.

I know enough about ecnomics to know what you are saying is pretty accurate. But the more you are aruging, the more you are proving my point. THAT THE MARKET IS CONTROLED BY THE INTERPERTATION OF IT'S CURRENT VALUE. no more no less.

It won't happen, so don't flame me for it, but if everyone in america woke up in the morning and said "money isn't worth anything"....money isn't worth anything. you can throw ecnonmics out the window. It really is THAT simple, yet you are trying to talk people out of arguements....

however if our currency was still backed by gold, or anything of value that can be taken anywhere in the world and still hold value, regardless of what I or anyone else thinks, our currency still has value.

Is our world going to hell in a handbasket? no, because the world is a smaller place and other countries wouldn't allow it becuase it would cause financial problems for them as well. But that does not take from the fact we at best a wishy washy ecnonomy.


Taxes.. I don't mind paying them.. but god damn. And I have no dependants whatsoever. I got bent over 2 months ago with no lube

I wanted to hit on Paul as well. I think this is going to be one of the more interesting elections in recent years, because of the internet. All of the political forums I visit, simply put, although he doesn't have the money other runners have, he's the choice and he's getting his point across very effectivly. I love him.

BTW, true intelligence is how to get your point across to everyone.. from the guy with the PHD to the guy working at Micky D's, as well as understanding them and understanding their problems. Using words like Stochastic Macroeconomics doesn't make you smart. I can rewrite this whole damn post in french, then sign it to you in sign language if need be, but none of that has any use for this type of debate.


Back to the point... References from here on out

 

[TooColdUlrick]

and when you put hard facts onto someone's erroneous arguments, and that person still refuses to relent? the only person whom i suggested was stupid, was LMS. so what do we have thus far?

--the euro is backed by precious metals. wrong.

--the dollar is fiat and other currencies are not. wrong.

--the currency is being deflated. deflated? that means it becomes more valuable. don't you mean "inflated"? no more than any other country, so... wrong x2.

--food, energy, and housing aren't measured in the inflation numbers. WRONG!

--government will stop reporting money figures to "hide" its evil doings. wrong.

--the rich pay no taxes. wrong.

--the rich are useless bloodsuckers who produce nothing. wrong.

--the poor are the ones that support this country. wrong.

--it's all controlled by european bankers. wrong.

--"free" health care in other countries. wrong.

--the US is on the verge of economic collapse. wrong.

people who are stupid are the people who are presented with FACTS, from the actual first source [e.g. the IRS], and other sources, that prove them wrong, yet they refuse to believe...or then they change the argument.

LMS says the rich pay no taxes. wrong. link provided.

LMS says the government will stop publishing money figures. wrong. no link, but i informed him that he was wrong. he doesn't even know what M3 is, and thus he does not know what he is talking about.

LMS says the currency is being deflated. show us the numbers bro. it's not been showing up in Core Inflation, PPI, or CPI for the last 15 years. just because the dollar is low against the euro doesn't mean it's being deflated.

LMS does give a vid link of a very dead person, from a 25 year old video, who says it's all a conspiracy to merge the the US with the Soviet Union, lol.

has anyone else (there were a couple) on this thread provided one link or reference of actual, real, credible, verifiable fact of their "theories" for or against an economic collapse?

nope.

so yes, i am smarter than you. :cheer: :cheer: :box: :box: :woo: :woo:

 

[TooColdUlrick]

I've done alot of traveling in my life, and it just seems ot me that currenies that are backed by something of value, and not just market preception, do better.

that's my opinion. It's not rubbish. I have a very good understanding of how the economy works. I know first hand how munliplation of what is preceived can help or hurt a company/country.

name us one currency, aside from some obscure ones in Africa and not e-Gold and the like, that are backed by anything of value. that can be your opinion if you want it to be, but i'm sorry dude, you are incorrect.

 

[Last Man Standing]

I said none of that shyt that you posted - you are on drugs for sure! TooCold, you are a disinfo agent and hate facts and reality! I'll let people read my posts and let them determine what I said - you have no valid arguments to refute the economic realities of today so you resort to name-calling and lies and claim that you are intellectually superior to anyone who goes against your false assertions - your weak reasoning abilities tells me that you are lacking intellectually!

Insiders tell you that the banking system has been taken over from our congress and that we will never see sound banking again and yet you hide in a corner like a child and suck your thumb and say, "No it hasn't" Why not TooCold? “Because I said so!”

Wake up kid, The Matrix has you!!!

Just because you are profiteering from this economic chicanery doesn't make it right - your wellbeing doesn't supersede the wellbeing of Americans! You, and people with this self-serving attitude, are an example of why our country has gone to hell!!!

The whole world knows that the dollar is collapsing but as long as TooCold believes otherwise then we should ignore reality? HUH???

US debt could trigger dollar collapse, UN warns...
http://www.infowars.net/articles/june2007/010607debt.htm

 

[PureFlow]

Can someone explain to me how this "value based on perception" exactly works?

Coins made of gold are of course value by themselves. But where does this perceived value come from in a market and society? Who can create extra value in an economy like that? Who makes the choice what is valuable and worthless?

 

[SmoothTalker]

Now I am no economist, but why is the concept of money not backed by anything so scary to you guys?

Yes, it has no value except what we give it. But guess what, that's the case for everything. What's so damn great about gold? Yeah it's shiny...?
Just like with paper money, if people suddenly decided tomorrow that gold was worthless, it wouldn't be very valuble either. The value of something is all about preception - just take a look at the history of diamonds for a perfect example.

 

[Gaucho]

Can someone explain to me how this "value based on perception" exactly works?

Coins made of gold are of course value by themselves. But where does this perceived value come from in a market and society? Who can create extra value in an economy like that? Who makes the choice what is valuable and worthless?

Markets.

Its called "the invisible hand", this is what sets the price. You cant see it setting the price, but it does.

 

[Cash]

Yes, if China and Japan demand payment on their bonds ("cash in"in the Trillions) we won't be able to pay them because we don't have the money -- there will be a war!!!!

Also - if they start selling their dollars en masse then there would be a collapse -- the only reason why they don't do this is because they are too deeply tied into our system and hey would suffer as well -- which was planned - to prevent them from doing such!

This has to do with bonds and not the interest to private individuals who print and control the money (European Bankers)!

I see. Here's a series of silly questions....

What are their dollars doing, just sitting in an account gaining interest? And why do foreign governments buy US bonds, is one reason to keep their dollars afloat?

Thanks

 

[dot]

Yup it's true. Federal Reserve is terrible. Do some research. It's all bad.

to the person who said they're leaving, don't do that. It's gonna be bad everywhere anyway.

http://anonym.to/?http://digg.com/world_news/What_s_really_going_on_A_CALL_TO_ACTION

 

[Last Man Standing]

The following video will answer your questions on money, gold, and the federal reserve... Ron Paul is in the video... http://www.hiddenmysteries.net/video/2007/fedres.shtml

 

[lebRambo]

stop funding Israel's genocide of the Palestinians. Maybe that would save some cash

 

[Last Man Standing]

BIS, The bank of all banks warn us of what is to come...

...a great depression...this is what they want to consolidate their control! The international bankers created this mess purposely, but as long as they give us a warning we wont blame them for the mess they created! http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2007/06/25/cncredit125.xml

TooCold, Is the BIS a credible institution or is this just a conspiracy theory?

 

[PeterNorthisawesome]

US is only good for college, most foreigners get their degree from the US and leave. I`m planning to do the same in 4 years, I don`t even want to go to grad school here.

Seriously what`s so great about the US? The constitution? Too bad the judicial system is so corrupt that Paris Hilton can get out in 23 days. Patriot Act, Iraq War, 3 billion debt are all going to catch up to the US and one of the future presidents will have to deal with all the BS and it ain`t gonna be pretty.

The US can`t even provide it`s citizens with adaqute health care... 17th in the world! 2 slots before Cuba! The French and Canadians have better health care than the US... What is the tax dollar used for? Funding useless Wars? The founding principles and what US should be is great... too bad the nation isn`t headin that way because of the sh'tty public education that pumps out morons like Bush.

People are paying into Social Security and Welfare, even though it`s gonna screw them over in the future. The best solution is to move to Europe or Asia.

 

[PeterNorthisawesome]

Ron Paul: They attack us because we've been over there. We've been bombing Iraq for 10 years.

Yeah, he totally didn't imply that we deserved to be hit on 9/11. You couldn't tell that by his voice inflection at ALL. If you equate the liberation of Kuwait to the slaughter of 3,000 innocent people then there's nothing I can do for you.

Course, I already knew that after you began to crack jokes about the grisly murders of a woman and her child.



Source?



Talkin' out of your ass. She served 50% of her sentence while most in LA County will serve 10%.



National security, the removal of evil dictators and liberation of nations is "BS"? Interesting.



Lay off the Michael Moore. Liberal radicals are the last people you should be trying to emulate.



Harvard University is a public school? Fascinating.



If there's anything that I can do to expedite your departure, please don't hesitate to PM me.

Thank you for calling me out in the Source section... even though u haven`t lead by example. I also liked just because I used the US is ranked 17th in the world for health care... which is a FACT, you assumed I took it from SICKO by Michael Moore. How about go look it up on the national health website? Oh wait you`ll probably say it`s liberal and not credible... so... ok...

What has the US down about Darfur? Aids in Africa? North Korea shooting missiles over Japan...which in fact have US bases in it. Sure US has lost 3500 innocent lives in Iraq, how about the Iraqis? I`m sure WMD was worth the lives of...

***Total deaths (all excess deaths) Johns Hopkins - As of June 2006:
654,965 (range of 392,979–942,636)[24][25]
War-related & criminal violence deaths (all Iraqis) Iraq Health Minister - From early 2004 to November 2006:
100,000-150,000[26]

War-related & criminal violence deaths (civilians) Iraq Body Count - English language media only:
62,841-68,868[27]

What`s this FACT that the violence of Iraq is escalating? If insurgents who are mostly made up from the Iraq Population agreed with what US was doing by liberating them, why are they fighting the coaltion of the `willing`? It looks to me that Iraq was worse off then it was before the invasion... ooops I mean liberation. Why don`t you watch something besides FOX? Which is getting paid off by the government. Hey maybe I`m wrong but last time I checked the rest of the world watches CNN... I guess ABC, BBC, Daily Yomiuri aren`t good enough for u...

Don`t even start me on Paris Hilton, she broke the law three times. She didn`t show up to court and expected the judge to talk to her on the phone. What`s this thing about special treatment in a all women jail facility? Oh wait she actually spent 2 weeks in a hospital cuz she suffered... emotional problems.

Yes Bush went to Harvard Business school... and Yale... both because of money from his dad. I was talkin about the public education BEFORE college... like middle school and elementary... it`s ok Dues looks like Public Education you too.

Don`t worry didn`t I already make it clear to you that was LEAVING? Pitty that you`re too much of a p&ssy ass b'tch who hides behind their computer. I called you out but you still haven`t responded... I`ll meet you in Boston or New York! Name the time and place. :yawn:

 

[PeterNorthisawesome]

I was referring to your "statistic" that most foreigners leave after receiving a degree from a U.S. college.



I PRESUMED you did, considering you posted that remark just in time for the release date of his new documentary. And I have no problem with the left, (even though they're wrong the majority of the time imo, which coincides with the 14% approval rating of the Democratic-led congress). If Cuba is so grand, please feel free to try to migrate and I would tell you to post here telling us that you're safe if Cuba didn't severely limit it's people's Internet due to the near police state they got going on down there.



What does this have to do with your anti-American ranting? (The U.S. has provided more aid to the rest of the world than any other nation btw).



Relax. Saddam would've put the U.S. to shame in terms of body count had we allowed him to roam free. And don't make our soldiers out to be unwitting pawns of Bush, when in fact our military is an all-volunteer force that for the most part is proud to serve our country.



Fact-check all Wikipedia-related statistics. I usually go with the UN when it comes to this sort of thing. I could put your stats into google and have a laundry list of far-left smear sites pop up. Not good.



Ask them. Insurgents are generally either insane or extremely misguided, so I wouldn't hold your breath for a legitimate answer. Course, when it comes to blowing up women and children I'm not sure if such an answer exists. You're doing Iraq a tremendous disservice by equating "insurgents" with the "Iraq population", btw.



Totally, man. I mean...now that Saddam is gone, a constitution has been implemented, and the country is finally showing some signs of stability, Iraq has really hit rock bottom.



:crackup: Been talking to LMS, have we? You can't just make outrageous statements like that without any ounce of proof. It makes you look SILLY.



Actually, Fox News beats out every other cable news station in ratings COMBINED with viewers left over. Good try, though.



Correct. Liberally slanted anti-American news makes me feel claustrophobic.



YOU brought her up, and YOU got shut down by the facts.



Oh, you didn't say what you meant? That's cool, dude. I don't think I did either when I was a Freshman in High School.



Graduated from one of the top 5 private schools in the nation, but thanks anyway. Oh, and that key to the left of your 1 key? That ain't an apostrophe, bro.



Heh, I love it when you guys go this route. It's nonsensical to refer to somebody as "hiding" behind their computer when we're both posting on an Internet forum. Seriously. Think about it.



1) When did you "call me out", homey? Was this before you told me you were 6'5 300 or after you said you were 6'1 180 in the Tips forum? 2) You want to fistfight over a political disagreement? Pathetic. Your age really shows, here. 3) I'll be damned if I fly to the East Coast to put a 16 year old in his place. Come to LA.

So where`s your sources? You provided nothing to prove that you went to a private school. I actually watched the movie way before on torrrents, thanks for assuming again. Did I ever say Cuba was grand? I mentioned that they were 2 places after US on the health care rating system, trying to manipulate the truth again right? Don`t worry France, Italy, China and Japan is WAY better than the US.

Your reasoning is flawed again, so US provides the most aid to other countries. What has that got to do with anything? Why did they choose to invade Iraq? Instead of North Korea or Iran, which HAS weapons of mass-destruction?

I thought I explained to you how the Army was flawed. Poor/minorities don`t have money... meaning they can`t afford college and they have no choice, but to work a sh't job or join the armed forces. How do you know that Saddam would have matched the body count? Assuming again right? Where are you`re sources?

Wikipedia is credible, they have a FOOTNOTE section below from actual sites. So many you should learn to use it...

Yes lets assume again that most insurgents who are fightin in Iraq are misguided and wrong. What if you were a natural born citizen and some foreign country invaded your country? Would you sit around and let them take over or fight for it?

Iraq is stable? WTF you smoking? The condition has been getting worse, please use a source to support your claim. I bet FOX is the only news network.

Fox is not most watched... You`re way off in your claim again. http://www.timewarner.com/corp/newsroom/pr/0,20812,668933,00.html

How do u know that ABC, BBC, Daily Yomuri are all slanted? I bet you never watched any of those.

I liked how you always try to bend the fact that you lost, so what did you actually win in the Paris Hilton argument?

Yes you actually hiding behind you`re computer again. I called you out twice already in 2 other threads, but you didn`t want to. It`s not MY problem that you`re so gullible and believe everything a stranger states on an internet forum. You`re in California cool, I`m close what town and street?

 

[Last Man Standing]

Here is another excellent video..."The Petro Dollar Cycle" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uljOLFyCjjc

OK boys - this thread is to discuss "The Economic Collapse" and not for bickering!!

 

[dot]

Yeah, he totally didn't imply that we deserved to be hit on 9/11. You couldn't tell that by his voice inflection at ALL. If you equate the liberation of Kuwait to the slaughter of 3,000 innocent people then there's nothing I can do for you.

3,000 is nothing compared to the number of people that "we" (european man who came over) have killed, raped, destroyed, etc. Of course the actual people themselves that day did nothing to deserve it.