Does EVERY pretty girl have a boyfriend?

[ketostix]

If you are saying that guys do more work to get a relationship going, then that's hardly controversial. If you define "value" as "something you act to obtain", then yes, females have always had more value than males. Females don't work to pursue males. Nobody would disagree with that.

But I think you mean to say: adding up every quality guy in your area, and adding up every quality woman, there will be significantly less quality women, jacking up the value of the females. Is that what you mean? Because this is the sort of thing you can actually research to prove or disprove . . .



Except by moving to Eastern Europe.

This is now an American Women Suck Thread. There, fixed it.

Yeah that's basically what it comes down to. The "research" is everywhere everyday if a person looks for it. When I go out to a bar on any given night and find the really attractive girls are few and far between, constanly being gamed by the most advanced players in the bar and surrounded by an entourage of c0ckblocking friends, or when I observed most every average girl getting aproached by at least 5 different guys in a night, it's easy to see that women are in lower supply/higher demand, and men are raising their quality and women are able to get by with lowering their own quality. That's always the solution given to men to self-improve, get better, work harder. But my point was most men are going to have to lower their standards whether they won't to admit it or not. Yeah it's kind of a rant.

 

[ketostix]

Comic Relief, you have to understand that the reason guys attack your views based on your GF's looks has to do with credibility. Some guys don't find her attractive, you have pointed out repeatedly that she is the only girl you re seeing, so they assume you cannot get attractive girls. Hence, you cannot give them advice on how to get attractive girls

i happen to agree with some of the things that you say, especially putting more emphasis on improving inner game vs outer game. however, i also understand these guys' point of view and why they don't believe you. I m not saying it makes what you say wrong, i m just saying to a certain extent you are lacking the ability to back it up. Think about it: if Mystery showed up to his workshops wit a picture of a GF his students would not find hot (instead of showing up wit dozens of pics of gorgeous women he dated), do you think they would believe him when he told them he was the greatest PUA ever?

As for the OP: there are tons of HB who don't have boyfriends, to me it sounds like you re trying to find excuses for your lack of success in attracting them

Yes, exactly thanks. No one is saying you can't increase your success to some level by working hard to improve your "game" and yourself. But when comic relief says do what I say or this and that and you'll have hot girls (a hot girl by my opinion and consensus opinion), he's just KJing. He has no hot girls, there's no evidence that he even meets or talks to any hot girls. The fact remains all he has is an unattractive girl. And all his rationalizations for why he doesn't have a very attractive girl with as good or better personality than the one he has, are just rationalizations and excuses. It's the best evidence against him and the best proof that people who he disagrees with are right.

Besides that, it wouldn't matter if his girl friend was average to above average anyway. Guys will get in a relationship and will talk big talk about how easy it is to get all kinds of attractive women, but when their girlfirends leave and they get into the competitive market. All that big talk flies out the window.

 

[comic_relief]

Yeah that's basically what it comes down to. The "research" is everywhere everyday if a person looks for it. When I go out to a bar on any given night and find the really attractive girls are few and far between, constanly being gamed by the most advanced players in the bar and surrounded by an entourage of c0ckblocking friends, or when I observed most every average girl getting aproached by at least 5 different guys in a night, it's easy to see that women are in higher supply/lower demand, and men are raising their quality and women are able to get by with lowering their own quality. That's always the solution given to men to self-improve, get better, work harder. but my point was most men are going to have to lower their standards whether they admit it or not. Yeah it's kind of a rant.

ok, now we are getting somewhere.

Like I said before though, your venue is the wrong area (think supply and demand really quick), no wonder you are finding this problem.

I have not been clubbing and from what I heard I know it is not my scene. I will not debate that you have much knowledge on the subject of clubbing, but answer me this question.

If you went outside of the "meat market" and joined say a club, non-profit, actual dance class (swing, salsa, or etc.), or any other amount of different things outside of the clubbing atmosphere. Wouldn't the women not have their b!tch shields up and actually get to know you better than in a club. Also, do you think that maybe you would find a better caliber of women than in the clubs?

My game is more focused and specialized in quiet areas, where i can talk with people and let them get to know me. Those types of areas are where I have the best success with my game.

comic_relief

 

[drak_ool]

If you would like tonight, I will put up pictures of the girls that I dated/fooled around with before I dated my girlfriend to back up my credibility although I do not really have to.

don't worry, you won't have to "prove" yourself to me unless you re planning a seminar that i would wanna attend

seriously though, from reading your posts i get the impression that you think self-improvement on every level is sufficient to get the girl that you want, instead of spending your day whining about the "low supply of single girls". If that is truly your point of view i agree with it 100%

What some members of the site are saying is that my ideas are null and void because I have a "below average" girl. which is absolutely narrowmindedness.
I will ask as Socrates did at his Apology, "Judge what I say and not how I say it."

so basically they are attacking not the message but........ the messenger? wait, i thought that s what women do, not real men:

It's a very common tactic for women to publicly attack the messenger rather than the message when they don't like the message

seems like someone just got beat at their own game :box:

 

[DonGorgon]

Hello all.

Ah yes this is one of my favorite topics to discuss.

The reality of the modern male female dynamic in most american cities is quite simple and straight forward. I have found that what clouds the issue in the minds of many males is their propensity to optimism, realism or pessimism.

Yes, women do have the social advantage in the dating/relationship game due to scarcity of females and excess demand. This scarcity and excess demand has lead to an increase in the "value" of the average female and an increase in the amount of work the average male must put in to obtain an interaction with her. Males now also experience a higher level of competition for females of all quality levels. i.e. Ten years ago the average guy could get an HB5 with little problem but now he must put forth 2 to 3 times the effort for that same level of female, because she now have 2 to 3 times the options and attention she had before.

Now, that being the reality of the situation one can understand all the social side effects of the imbalance and decide how to survive under such conditions.

The optimist male approach:
"yeah well just stop whining like a looser and improve yourself (looks, money, personality etc.) to what ever new level females can now demand of you and you will be ok... I will do it no matter how high above their own quality that their standards get"

The realist male approach:
"Yeah things have shifted out of my favor so looks like things may get more difficult as far as finding viable female options goes, I am not gonna put up with any shallow females who use this new social climate to rationalize some perceived superiority. I will not allow such a female to dictate my happiness in life. I am a good man and to hell with any woman that does not want a good man."

The pessimist male approach:
"Oh damn looks like every woman I meet is gonna reject me now that they have all this power over men... I need these women to validate my happiness in life, so I don't know what I am gonna do."

Many complex socioeconomic factors have lead to the current state of the male/female dynamic. As a man you should not expect things to balance back out anytime soon, instead you need to make sure that your life is balanced so that you can be happy with yourself! Never allow shallow superficial women to control your happiness. If you need sex get it where you can but when it comes to LTRs never settle for shallow superficial women.

 

[ketostix]

ok, now we are getting somewhere.

Like I said before though, your venue is the wrong area (think supply and demand really quick), no wonder you are finding this problem.

I have not been clubbing and from what I heard I know it is not my scene. I will not debate that you have much knowledge on the subject of clubbing, but answer me this question.

If you went outside of the "meat market" and joined say a club, non-profit, actual dance class (swing, salsa, or etc.), or any other amount of different things outside of the clubbing atmosphere. Wouldn't the women not have their b!tch shields up and actually get to know you better than in a club. Also, do you think that maybe you would find a better caliber of women than in the clubs?

My game is more focused and specialized in quiet areas, where i can talk with people and let them get to know me. Those types of areas are where I have the best success with my game.

comic_relief

Well I don't dispute that it helps to find your niche. If it's day game, social circles, internet or whatever. However, the thing is the fact that meat markets exists at bars means the meat market dynamic exists every where to an extent. I personally don't know anyone that can pick up women at bars that can't pick up women anywhere and everywhere else too. Conversely, I don't know anyone that can't pick up at bars that doesn't struggle picking up every where else.

It's somewhat of a fallacy to say for example a woman at church is better than a woman at a bar. Sometimes it's true, sometimes it's not. A lot of churches are meat markets too, with the complication of religion thrown in.
The thing you have to understand is most available, attractive women are college age and congregate around colleges. It's not that easy to find attractive available girls past college age to approach in everyday life.

 

[ketostix]

don't worry, you won't have to "prove" yourself to me unless you re planning a seminar that i would wanna attend

seriously though, from reading your posts i get the impression that you think self-improvement on every level is sufficient to get the girl that you want, instead of spending your day whining about the "low supply of single girls". If that is truly your point of view i agree with it 100%




so basically they are attacking not the message but........ the messenger? wait, i thought that s what women do, not real men:



seems like someone just got beat at their own game :box:

No I never once attacked him. I just pointed out the fact that he can't say what will work and how easy it will work unless he's accomplishing the same goal. If someone who never made money said "Let me tell you how to make a million dollars.." Then pointing out the fact that they never did it isn't an attack on them. It is an attack on the credibility of their message. Now if I said, "You're broke and desperate and you're going to die in pverty etc" than that is attacking the messenger. Which is what iqqi was doing. There's a big difference between what I said and what iqqi was doing.

 

[comic_relief]

Well I don't dispute that it helps to find your niche. If it's day game, social circles, internet or whatever. However, the thing is the fact that meat markets exists at bars means the meat market dynamic exists every where to an extent. I personally don't know anyone that can pick up women at bars that can't pick up women anywhere and everywhere else too. Conversely, I don't know anyone that can't pick up at bars that doesn't struggle picking up every where else.

It's somewhat of a fallacy to say for example a woman at church is better than a woman at a bar. Sometimes it's true, sometimes it's not. A lot of churches are meat markets too, with the complication of religion thrown in.
The thing you have to understand is most available, attractive women are college age and congregate around colleges. It's not that easy to find attractive available girls past college age to approach in everyday life.

ok, true I will give you that it is a sort of falacy, but tell me this. Is it not true that people in general act a different way around different people and environments.

A place other than a club is usually a much better indicator of a personality and will have their b!tch shields down a bit more than in the club.

I will further give you that it is easier to meet college age women at a club/bar, but I will have to question you further on this point.

At my college, I have seen hundreds of individuals volunteer to help at different events and things for nonprofits.

There is also bookstores and scenic areas where young people go to. Don't limit yourself to just clubbing activities and think, "If I was a college age person, where would I go to hang out." Lots of college age students have jobs at department stores and such. There is another place to go. I have struck up conversations at department stores and that is how my friend who is 31 got with a 21 year old hottie.

I think you shouldn't limit yourself to just bars/clubs. There are tons of areas that are open where young people congregate at such as some places.

Also aimed at your first paragraph, I will not KJ things that I do not know. I do not know how clubs operate at all from real life experience. Therefore, how can I simply state stories that are made up? I would not lie to you guys for the sake of making my position sound better, but I know of the meat market dynamic from reading in other posts about their stories or from videos that I have of people picking up.

comic_relief

 

[DonGorgon]

ok, true I will give you that it is a sort of falacy, but tell me this. Is it not true that people in general act a different way around different people and environments.

A place other than a club is usually a much better indicator of a personality and will have their b!tch shields down a bit more than in the club.

comic_relief

Changing where you meet a person does not change the person/personality/quality but only the way you meet them.... ie. many people who go to clubs at night may got to libraries and groceries by day, but are still the same people. So saying "you cant find good people at night clubs" is a fallacy.

 

[Mad Manic]

Mad Manic, I would like you to take this one step further because everything you are talking about is exterior game, I want you to delve into the inner game.

Your on the right track, but your even saying that self-improvement will even the odds and sometimes manage to change the m/f dynamic entirely.

My argument is that you change the male/female dynamic entirely, if you self-improve enough.

comic_relief

It doesn't change the dynamic, it just might help you cope within it. But even if I or whoever self improves to a level where we can get hot women (so that's a VERY HIGH level) I won't be forgetting exactly the stress and expectations placed on men to 'match up' to these pedestalised standards. In other words, I will still be as cynical as ever, if not more so. And women are still always to be deciding who gets laid and who doesn't, we have no power other than influencing their decision.

MM

 

[comic_relief]

It doesn't change the dynamic, it just might help you cope within it. But even if I or whoever self improves to a level where we can get hot women (so that's a VERY HIGH level) I won't be forgetting exactly the stress and expectations placed on men to 'match up' to these pedestalised standards. In other words, I will still be as cynical as ever, if not more so. And women are still always to be deciding who gets laid and who doesn't, we have no power other than influencing their decision.

Your telling me that you have no control over who has sex with you?

You have no control over who you stick your penis in?

Ok, hypothetical situation for you. If you had a level ten wildebeast wanting to have sex with you, than you will because you have no power and she is using her vagina powers to make you have sex with you?

Of course you wouldn't. Therefore, you HAVE power to deny sex to people. You just choose to deny that right that you have to yourself. You are giving yourself less credit than you should.

Don Gorgon, I'll get to your post later because I have a class that I should be going to.

comic_relief

 

[steve12b]

Mine has one

 

[Mad Manic]

Your telling me that you have no control over who has sex with you?

You have no control over who you stick your penis in?

Ok, hypothetical situation for you. If you had a level ten wildebeast wanting to have sex with you, than you will because you have no power and she is using her vagina powers to make you have sex with you?

Of course you wouldn't. Therefore, you HAVE power to deny sex to people. You just choose to deny that right that you have to yourself. You are giving yourself less credit than you should.

Don Gorgon, I'll get to your post later because I have a class that I should be going to.

comic_relief

Yes but the male penis has no social value so it's irrelevant whether I decide not to stick it in something that's trying to rape me. Yes men have the power to deny sex because it's their choice, but the problem is women aren't asking them for sex and men are wanting to sex the women, so the power of 'male choice' is never enforced. The female's power of choice is instead always enforced.

MM

 

[drak_ool]

women aren't asking them for sex

let me correct that: "women aren't asking YOU for sex"

sucks to be you

 

[DonGorgon]

Yes but the male penis has no social value so it's irrelevant whether I decide not to stick it in something that's trying to rape me. Yes men have the power to deny sex because it's their choice, but the problem is women aren't asking them for sex and men are wanting to sex the women, so the power of 'male choice' is never enforced. The female's power of choice is instead always enforced.

MM

Exactly .. but you have to rise above this grim reality if you want to enjoy the sweet wet warmth of a HB10 woman's special place... Or like most men you can fight for the best women or take what ever you can get.

 

[optimusprime]

Ah yes this is one of my favorite topics to discuss.

The reality of the modern male female dynamic in most american cities is quite simple and straight forward. I have found that what clouds the issue in the minds of many males is their propensity to optimism, realism or pessimism.

Yes, women do have the social advantage in the dating/relationship game due to scarcity of females and excess demand. This scarcity and excess demand has lead to an increase in the "value" of the average female and an increase in the amount of work the average male must put in to obtain an interaction with her. Males now also experience a higher level of competition for females of all quality levels. i.e. Ten years ago the average guy could get an HB5 with little problem but now he must put forth 2 to 3 times the effort for that same level of female, because she now have 2 to 3 times the options and attention she had before.

For those with the flexibility and capability, isn't traveling abroad in Europe, Asia, the Middle East, etc. a solution to both dilemmas?: finding HBs and marrying a suitable partner. In Europe at least, women have advanced past the 18th century and approach guys. Therefore, you do not have to worry about rejection too much, since you will already know if she is interested.

Also for you guys complaining, you could have it a lot worse. I know discussions of race are not allowed; but for guys of the majority group in the U.S., getting an attractive girl should not be that hard if you are in average shape, of average height, have an alright personality, etc. Also, if you are a guy of the majority group, you also have the option of minority women. However, for a minority guy, the majority women are closed off to you AND you have compete with majority guys for minority girls.

Imagine being eliminated by 90% of women of a certain ethnic group because of the color of your skin. Europe is also the savior for minority guys in the U.S., but that is a discussion for another topic and time.

Anyway, I agree that the situation is pretty terrible for guys overall in the U.S., but majority guys do not have it as badly as other guys. Even if I had the most confidence in the world, I still have to worry whether a girl is open-minded to other groups. There are no Latinos or South Asians in my grad program, so I do not have that many options. I am getting pretty depressed, but maybe when I'm successful things will change for me.

Before you complain after approaching a pretty girl who says that she has a boyfriend, think about how bad it would be if you were a guy of a certain group who not only got told the same thing (I have a BF) but also the girl laughs or is disrespectful to you because she would never consider you. That is true pain. And despite the media portrayal of Latin/exotic guys as the next best thing, it is certainly not making things any easier for me.

To the moderator: I know discussions of race are not allowed, so if my post is inappropriate I will modify it. But please do not lock the thread because this topic of "does every pretty girl have a BF" is important. Just send me a PM and I will make the adjustment. Please do not lock the thread.

 

[DonGorgon]

Also for you guys complaining, you could have it a lot worse. I know discussions of race are not allowed; but for guys of the majority group in the U.S., getting an attractive girl should not be that hard if you are in average shape, of average height, have an alright personality, etc. Also, if you are a guy of the majority group, you also have the option of minority women. However, for a minority guy, the majority women are closed off to you AND you have compete with majority guys for minority girls. .

i hear you loud and clear and can fully empathize... I have don some deep studying of this issue and have found that it really does complicate the male female dynamic even more for certain groups.

 

[Mad Manic]

let me correct that: "women aren't asking YOU for sex"

sucks to be you

I'm really happy for you that hot women walk up to you in bars and the street etc. and ask you for sex. Well done.

 

[Mad Manic]

For those with the flexibility and capability, isn't traveling abroad in Europe, Asia, the Middle East, etc. a solution to both dilemmas?: finding HBs and marrying a suitable partner. In Europe at least, women have advanced past the 18th century and approach guys. Therefore, you do not have to worry about rejection too much, since you will already know if she is interested.

Also for you guys complaining, you could have it a lot worse. I know discussions of race are not allowed; but for guys of the majority group in the U.S., getting an attractive girl should not be that hard if you are in average shape, of average height, have an alright personality, etc. Also, if you are a guy of the majority group, you also have the option of minority women. However, for a minority guy, the majority women are closed off to you AND you have compete with majority guys for minority girls.

Imagine being eliminated by 90% of women of a certain ethnic group because of the color of your skin. Europe is also the savior for minority guys in the U.S., but that is a discussion for another topic and time.

Anyway, I agree that the situation is pretty terrible for guys overall in the U.S., but majority guys do not have it as badly as other guys. Even if I had the most confidence in the world, I still have to worry whether a girl is open-minded to other groups. There are no Latinos or South Asians in my grad program, so I do not have that many options. I am getting pretty depressed, but maybe when I'm successful things will change for me.

Before you complain after approaching a pretty girl who says that she has a boyfriend, think about how bad it would be if you were a guy of a certain group who not only got told the same thing (I have a BF) but also the girl laughs or is disrespectful to you because she would never consider you. That is true pain. And despite the media portrayal of Latin/exotic guys as the next best thing, it is certainly not making things any easier for me.

To the moderator: I know discussions of race are not allowed, so if my post is inappropriate I will modify it. But please do not lock the thread because this topic of "does every pretty girl have a BF" is important. Just send me a PM and I will make the adjustment. Please do not lock the thread.

The issue of race and what girls of the majority race in a given country will date/not date is a huge can of worms and not something I'd go into on here, although I do have my own beliefs which seem to match what I see in real life.

 

[Nip/Tuck]

The thread starter is fooling himself. Every day there are 18,000 girls who turn 18 in each state. Let's say 10% of them are so called "Cute/Hot" the 8-10 on the "rating scale." That's about 900 girls, I don't think every single one of them have boy friends. Anyways, it's so easy to steal girlfriends from American dudes. No offense, but the majority don't have a clue and become very insecure/ clingy when they face competition.