DJing in England

[EternalBachelor]

This is a great thread. I think we should make it a sticky.

Good points Austin. There is definitely far less of a dating culture in UK and far more of an emphasis on long term relationships (with the exception of the drunken one night stands that are a regular occurence at university). So many attractive girls I know are in these long "university marriages" and spend most of the time with their boyfriend. It is very hard to find beautiful single girls, as most of them feel a need to be in a relationship

I have still yet to work out a good strategy for English girls. I am a fan of the as soon as you are on reasonably friendly terms, get the number, set up a coffee date and take it from there, but it has not been very successful thus far in England.

But yeh so many UK guys are AFC and have their girlfriends controlling the relationship-nagging them, telling them what to do.

I think one of the keys to DJing in the UK is being a social butterfly. If you are introduced to a girl by a friend of hers, she is far more likely to be receptive to you.

Does anyone else have any definite ideas on how to adapt DJing to the UK?

 

[Robo-Kai]

But yeh so many UK guys are AFC and have their girlfriends controlling the relationship-nagging them, telling them what to do.

I can't agree more. I'm in the UK too, and working in 3 different shops, I notice these things.

However, everything I'm learning here seems to be backfiring on me. The only thing I seem to be pulling off good is the C+F and making them feel that they "need me", but nothing else. I get numbers easily, but they never reply/pick up ... , which results me in going straight ahead and nexting them ...

 

[JSH]

Originally posted by Austin Allegro
I've been thinking about this and have concluded that there are some really important differences between 'the game' in the US and the UK.

I think non-US threads might even benefit from a separate area.

To sum up, here's the differences I've noted:

1. Cold approaches are almost unknown. Casual pick ups revolve around being drunk in clubs and pubs.

2. Casual dating is not as familiar. In fact some UK women seem to have a certain resistance to the idea and prefer the thought that things 'just happen'. This is especially true if you look at dating websites, a lot of women will say things like 'I can't believe I'm doing this' etc.

3. UK women are more cynical and less open to smooth talking or NLP techniques etc. Most would laugh at that sort of thing.

4. Many UK women go through a pattern of 2-3 LTRs with AFCs until they are in their late 20s/early 30s when they go mental and date everyone in sight in the search for Mr Right.

5. LJBF is not considered by many UK women to be a blow out - they seem to be perfectly happy to be friends with men even if they have a bf - I think this is because so many AFCs have been conditioned by feminism to not be 'a threat' to women.

Any more thoughts?

I agree, I think that there is more difference between countries than between age. Even more strange at 17, the girls i cold approach are often talkative but not willing to give numbers, they like the attention (mayb im not doing it right) but are wary. Casual pick ups also at larger parties which kinda verge onto clubs/pubs as they are often the venue.

Again casual dating is quite strange as is this idea of going exclusive, you can witness the reactions in the newspapers when american career women talked about how less pushy british males were. I can see the difference when i read articles by american writers. In England, especially at my age, you are cheating if you date multiple women, there is no idea of exclusive, you either are or are not going out.

3. some of the techniques used in america would get you arrested, although i found that people here appear (judging by otehrs experiences to give nicer let downs and be more amiable)

I havent really thought about it but i will and ill post if i come up with any more

 

[Y Trallwng Am Byth]

Please do. My problem is that I can pull exceptionally well when I'm drunk and so are they, but never sober. And when I am drunk, usually it's the mingers I pull. If I do pull a fttie though, and end up back at hers, the drink required to pull her just makes me unable to perform.

I suppose the idea would be to go out and not drink as much, but if you do that you just look like a dirty guy who's there just for the girls and not the drink. I dunno..maybe I just go to skanky places..

 

[JSH]

Originally posted by Y Trallwng Am Byth
Please do. My problem is that I can pull exceptionally well when I'm drunk and so are they, but never sober. And when I am drunk, usually it's the mingers I pull. If I do pull a fttie though, and end up back at hers, the drink required to pull her just makes me unable to perform.

I suppose the idea would be to go out and not drink as much, but if you do that you just look like a dirty guy who's there just for the girls and not the drink. I dunno..maybe I just go to skanky places..

hehe, well im a genius at the art of looking like im drinking, when im not. Its easy, fake it, (I did use to be able to drink a lot, but a month ago i had a very bad experience and drank too much and im slowly letting my body recover), but im not gonna let my mates think im weak, so its easier to fake it. (albeit i could still drink them under the table). Buy bottled beer, preferably dark coloured glass, although i do like corona anyway. Drink it, but with your tongue across the entry, so you drink a lot less every time you swig and if you are moving around enough and just make sure you are seen buying a couple of bottles at the bar and it comes off cool.

If its only sold in glasses, then you have a choice, either pull of the same trick with alcopops, or buy stuff like coke every so often and if anyone asks its got spirits in. Or alternatively just mingle a lot and keep your pint glass, and sip rather than gulp, and always overestimate how many you have had. Easy as pie.

The aim is to look like you are keeping pace with them, so they get drunk while you stay reasonably sober, but then that has the downside of lookign after your mates if they get ****3d over. And i dont like being sober with a drunk girl

 

[Austin Allegro]

JSH, that is SO true - people in England have NO concept of multiple dating. They simply don't understand it. Eg a woman at work found out I was dating two different woman. She got quite offended and said 'I really didn't think you were a player Austin - I'm disappointed in you'.

I pointed out that neither relationship was exclusive as we had only recently met, but she replied 'you should stay with one woman until you know if it will work out or not'.

I said what happens if I'm not sure and someone else comes along? No answer. Needless to say she is in an LTR with an AFC.

You may find a book called 'Watching the English' by Kate Fox of interest (BTW she is indeed a 'fox'!). After extensive research she came out with interesting stuff about the English, which most of us knew anyway but it's good to have them 'proved', eg:

-Pubs, esp pub bar areas, are the only places where it is acceptable to talk to strangers.

-You may only talk to a stranger on a train if it is to comment on some disaster, hold up, crash etc. Saying 'may I open the window' etc is not permitted as a conversation opener.

-Single women in bars on their own will put their mobile on the table and make a call if they need to ward off men.

There is more on dating which I'll post when I've read!

 

[DJBen]

I agree that it is completely different in the UK, and almost all the tactics/things to do I read here would never work on a girl... I look at a lot of all the ****y and funny stuff and just laugh at it - no offence to you guys, but with my experiences, I'd get slapped/kicked in the ghoolies for sure.

I think you can do cold approaches very well if you're good at it. My dad [ooo this sounds bad] is a master at this and always has atleast 2-3 birds he's seeing purely from cold approaches - I guess it's all in the attitude and some people just cant pull it off right. [dont worry, he's divorced ]

I think it'd be an awesome thing to have a UK-only bit on the forums, I'm definately up for that.

 

[FratAndDiddy]

ain't no level-headed female in the world likes to hear you are dating multiple women. why tell em? if you want 2 of them or more, then tell them after you've reeled them in. if they want to be the focus, then throw em back in. good chance they will stay after the fight of the hook being in their mouth.
UK US all the same. its all a matter of attaction.

 

[EternalBachelor]

Very true about multiple dating. If a girl considers you her boyfriend (and it is scary how quickly that happens over in England and they often don't let go), then she will be extremely offended if she finds out you are seeing other women even on a casual basis.

However for reeling in girls a bit of competition and jealousy is a great hook. The impression you want to give is that you know lots of attractive girls and are spoilt for choice and playing the field until you find someone special (her). If you are not arrogant about it and make it seem as if you cannot help being popular with the ladies, and treat them well, then she will not think of you as a player.

 

[Tweek_1984]

I'm not into the club scene at all. Wherever you go it's usually a cattle mart with dolled-up women frontin with skinheads.

When I go out, I go to gigs or house parties. Much more opportunity for conversation with much sexier talent without the deafening music or getting paralletic.

 

[The Jack]

Dating in the UK vs US

I'd like to fully support you guys in the nature of this post as to the concept of dating in the US (and much the same in Australia) VS dating here in the UK.

I've been backpacking around Europe for some time now and seen a good deal of other cultures and how they interact and one thing I'd had to say is that damn you have it tough over here in the UK and Ireland! I've had to rethink my entire game. Back home I have found that the whole dating scene works almost exactly as it seems to in the US and thus the posts seem to hit the nail on the head when it comes to advice. But here its a whole different line of thinking.

My Thoughts and the Odd Observation

One thing I'll keep specific to is to LOCAL UK ladies, my fellow Aussie female bretheren and our other UK and Irish decendants tend to be VERY naughty indeed when abroad...

Austin in response to your post.

1. Cold approaches are almost unknown. Casual pick ups revolve around being drunk in clubs and pubs.

Too right! The tube in London almost had me rolling around in a fit of laughter. When asking for a seat (say if there was something placed on it) would result in no eye contact and the removal of the item with no verbal response. For fun I tried to make eye contact as I was intrigued to see that NO-ONE would match my gaze, looking everywhere else but. This was also so when waiting for the train and playing the new guy in town. Even try opening someone to ask for directions and a nonverbal pointing of the nearest line map was all you could get from them. Let alone trying to strike a conversation with random hotties.

Walking the streets here there seems to be a large number of people working for charity organisations hassling people and people selling magazines and newspapers that can be quite intimidating. At a local supermarket there was this guy that stood out the front who would get in everyones face and shout "issue, you want to buy an issue?". Normally this would not be too weird except the guy had a speech impediment and his tone of voice completely took me by suprise to the point where I could have almost dropped him just for entering my personal space in such a thretening manner. Overall approching anyone on the streets with the intention to get number is not impossible, just be tactful and don't take it too seriously. If you are shot down, take it on the chin and roll with the punches in indifference.

Casual pickups with local ladies being a foreigner is not so difficult (in London anyway). A few words out of my mouth and my cover is blown and the odd Aussie slang phrase keeps the conversation going for hours. Simply add a lot of drinks (at their expense as I'm sooo poor, hehe) and some playful kino seems to drive them wild and invitations to head off somewhere else soon follow.

2. Casual dating is not as familiar. In fact some UK women seem to have a certain resistance to the idea and prefer the thought that things 'just happen'. This is especially true if you look at dating websites, a lot of women will say things like 'I can't believe I'm doing this' etc.

Dating here was strange at first because the natural progression as it was back home is totally different. Casual dating implies that the focus is on the romantic/sexuality in women. Though from what I have noticed asking a lady out here in the UK to "get to know her better" is exactly that. It takes alot of rapport building and demonstrating that you are a fun and interesting guy to even have a chance at spending time together.

On my time in a youth hostel I met a lovely Irish girl who I soon hit it off with. Longing for my lifestyle of dating frequently back home I proceeded to set up dates where we would go sightseeing, coffee and eventually dinner (when she earned it). This was going great as we would always end up laughing and talking dirty, or so I thought. When it came to escalating the attraction on a physical level I was left wondering WTF is this? I've never come across this where the girl is completely into you, but not willing to get all touchy feely. Personally I see physical escallation as a requirement to a good partner and if they can't then you start to wonder about other areas where they are lacking and often break it off or LJBF them. I am more affectionate with most of my female friends than I ever got with this girl. Thats something that I'll have work on and on parting our ways I left her with a big hug to which we exchanged details and offerred me a place to stay "whenever I wanted". Her unsureness was somewhat explained when she mention she was not long out of a LTR and "Doesn't normally do this kind of thing". I get the impression that she was more focused on making a friend as we were both travelling alone.

3. UK women are more cynical and less open to smooth talking or NLP techniques etc. Most would laugh at that sort of thing.

Yes and No. Depending on the angle and material that you use. Heres a few examples.

The Irish girl that I was dating for a bit was very open to the whole fate situation I created, but not to a non possesive but faithful partner.

Situation 1.

After building some rapport and over a few drinks...

Me: Its funny that I'd bump into someone like you here. My whole decison to come here was last minute and I didn't even think I'd even make it! But I'm glad that I did...
Her: Yeah funny isn't it, might even be fate! (jokingly)
Me: Yeah maybe. (Then pause looking deep into her eyes).

One thing to note though was this girl was completely freaked out by ANY kino and my effort to emphasise the point with a light touch of her knee broke her from her state, fcuking up my flow. Go figure.

Situation 2.

Mingling with a few ladies one night the conversation came to travelling by yourself or with someone, then more specifically travelling wiht a partner back home.

Me: Yeah this one girl that I met was travelling with a friend of hers with a husband and 2 kids back home.
The girls: Wow really, I could never do that.
Me: One thing that really suprised me is that it was the husband who had told her to go see the world as he had no inclination to travel. I think thats amazing to think that your partner would allow you to dissapear to do what you want in life. So many partners are so possesive these days, I'd love to have a relataionship half as good as that when I settle down.
The girls: Yeah (lost in deep thought).
The Irish girl: (Bursting out laughing) Haha, sorry. Here you guys are talking about a good relationship and all I can think is I'll bet he did. Just so he could get out and shag somone else while she was away!

Completely unexpected, but I found her sense of humour fun.

4. Many UK women go through a pattern of 2-3 LTRs with AFCs until they are in their late 20s/early 30s when they go mental and date everyone in sight in the search for Mr Right.

Havn't really been here long enough to fully see this, but some of the local ladies that I meet at bars and clubs are "in a relationship" though openly flirt and take the piss out of their BF.

5. LJBF is not considered by many UK women to be a blow out - they seem to be perfectly happy to be friends with men even if they have a bf - I think this is because so many AFCs have been conditioned by feminism to not be 'a threat' to women.

Sitting in an Aussie bar one night in Scotland and after striking up a conversation with a few guys there I was approached by 2 Scottish ladies (very attractive HB8 and HB9 dressed to impress) who asked about the 2 chairs next to me saying "are these seats taken" despite several empty tables. Very interested to find out where I was from they were openly delighted to find out I was an Aussie and the conversation focused mainly on them wanting to travel to Australia. After some time they suggested that they were going to move on and that I should come with them, to which I gladly accepted.

This is the best night I have had out in a long time and come closing time we headed off together. Throughout the night I probed them to find out their staus finding one had a BF though was openly flirting with me, talking dirty and such phrases as "I've never been with an Aussie guy, you all seem much bigger than the guys here (refering to our rugby union players of course). Her friend seemed single, though I wasn't sure. After an invitation to a party at their house the following night, I accepted and told them I was heading off. The somewhat singe lady jumped me and gave me a big hug followed by the taken lady. My instinct still told me something wasn't right so I turned my back and went on my way.

Heading to the party the following night I was suprised to see this girls BF greet me at the door. I got to know all their friends and had a great night, glad to make some local friends. One thing that was suprising in this case was that one of the girls actually did have a BF and the other was engaged to be married and had taken off her engagement ring! VERY friendly ladies I'd say, though I now have a place to stay "whenever I'm in town".

 

[The Jack]

To summariase:

1) For any Aussie guy, or visitor from abroad, be prepared for a big culture shock. The ladies over here don't act and respond in the same way as they do back home. Also a point to make is that some of the ladies in the UK&I have FILTHY mouths. I like my ladies that I take an interest in to speak eloquently and like a lady. I dated a HB9 back home and after our first date I broke it off because the things that came out of this girls mouth were so wrong. Another good example is the Agricultual Folk, or Aggies, that we have in rural areas at home. "Chicks will balls" we would say. Get used to it guys, although the ladies in the UK&I are good value and fun to talk to, in some areas every second word that comes out of their mouth is "fcuk". This is especially so in Ireland and Scotland.

2) Learn to be genuinly interested in a girl if you want to have any hope of taking things further (excluding drunken pickups in bars) as it takes alot of rapport building and demonstrating that you are a fun and interesting guy to even have a chance at spending more time together. Though one thing to note was my Irish lady dropped a bombshell saying "Irish women are funny creatures. They are like nuns when they're sober, but give them a few to drink and they're like a dirty slapper!" Needless to say I made a mental note of that one. Another point is that there is no abortion in Ireland so the ladies take s3x VERY seriously. One night of hot passion that leads to an unwanted child is not taken as lightly as it is in other countries.

3) Approching anyone on the streets with the intention to get number is not impossible, just be tactful and don't take it too seriously. Be prepared for more rejection that your probably used to if you are from abroad. If you are shot down just spin it off into something humourous. A NO at first can often lead to a YES using humour and indifference.

4) Learn when the time is right to use kino. The culture in the UK is ALOT more frigid and people don't take lightly to you even just innocently brushing against them. Too much kino will result in fcuking up any flow that you had. Though after knowing someone for a while, all ladies love a warm friendly hello/goodbye hug.

5) Do away will all those fancy NLP techniques and just try to build on natural shared interests. Being a foreigner is an advantage as Australia especially is a place they love to hear about. Boxing Kangaroos, Drop bears, Snapping Logs and Hoop Snakes go down very well and don't be offended when you're asked to do the odd Steve Irwin impression.

6) Just beacuse some ladies will flirt with you does NOT mean they are single / or available. Many local ladies just love to talk to foreigners. Trust your instincts and learn how to subtly find out their status. Remember how big those Irish/Scottish/Engligh guys were in the Rugby World Cup last year? Well they play alot more contact sport in the UK&I so don't be suprised when you wake up not knowing where you are when you thought you were in with this hottie you were talking to.

7) Social Proofing is very easy in the UK&I. The people here in the whole bar scene are quite friendly. Out at a bar one night I planned on having ONE drink and after striking up a conversation with some locals spent the night on their free shouts and some great conversation. Though don't be too offended if they constantly take the piss out of you. Its what they do so just dish it back.

Over and out.

 

[JSH]

thats why i got so confused with the concept of becoming exclusive, when i first looked at the High School forum, i mean if i stick my tongue down a girls throat repeatedly when im sober, then i go and do it to another girl and i get in trouble.

 

[donny osmond]

Hi im from England too, Norwich actually. I currently go to UEA if thats any help.

 

[Alpine]

double sorry

 

[Alpine]

Wow,

Well if I believed some of the things I've been reading rather than my own experiences I'd be emmagrating to the states ASAP.

I think guitar whizz touched on this. Your belief about something has a huge effect on what you try and how you do it. There's nothing wrong with learning from feedback but if you believe cold approaches don't work on UK women then guess what, they won't and you won't try more than two or three before giving up.

As a reverse example I don't think I'm very good looking and in a pub with an 80/20 ratio of men to women full of 6ft young blokes I don't stand a chance, therfore I believe one on ones are easier, catch my drift?

Also, define a cold approach. If I was walking down a secluded country lane at night, came across a hottie and approached her, would this be a good move? probably inapropriate at best.

Walking down a highstreet on a saturday afternoon, following the precursor body language communication, certainly OK. Of about 20 approaches probably 3 will give me the death stare, another 3 will just ingore me, 5 will talk but appear as if they are straining on an invisable leash, about 10 are ok to talk.

With a background in sales, as you can see I keep good stats and especially like conversion ratios. The reason I don't do street cold pickups so much now is the number of initial approaches is good practice but too inefficient. Also alot of the age range I'm after take their BFs with them shopping.

Personally, I'd go for anyplace where there is a credible reason why you could talk to them and it's a safe environment.

As you use your skills, see results and your confidence grows, rethink your old beliefs about what is and isn't possible, even in stuck up UK.

 

[Not Quite There]

ok, certain situations cold approaches may work over here, but heres a classic example of what the Uk is like most of the time.

I was in the library again today, like i said in another post the other day, i spotted a fitty, like 8.8 maybe a 9, checked her out, gave her a bit of eye contact as she walked past, she didnt really respond, it was just quick glances on either side.

then as i am working, I here soemone walk past, (i always look up, when someone walks past, to see who it is, and basically perv if its a fit girl), as i look up, its her and shes checking me out now... but she looks way when shes sees me look.

In this kinda situation, its all you'll ever gonna get, people will stare and give a little eye contact, but it means **** all, there was no way either one of us where going to approach the other, due to the fact we are british and in the library, if either of us did, we would of got the attention of the whole library, not because we where making noise, but because this kind of thign doesnt happen in britain!!!

 

[Alpine]

Hang on. I thought we were talking about whether you can pick up Uk girls cold. All you are saying is you didn't do anything because you were too concerned about something you shouldn't give a toss about and isn't any of their business.

Because you didn't smile, say hello and practice the bridging skills needed in these situations, you'll never know whether she could have been interested and are no better equipped to do it next time.

I would have been much more impressed if you said that you go to the library for a week and out of 20 girls 2 or 3 talked but no luck and the rest said p1ss off despite trying different things. And therefore you felt libraries were unproductive.

I went in my local bookshop just before Christmas, I saw this girl went passed and shouted Bogeys! quite loud, luckily she got what I was on about and laughed. I went over and said I had a terrible urge to do it (smile).

We spent a few minutes talking about the antics of d1ck and Dom and then I steered the conversation to other things. I then said she looked like she could do with a coffee and looked in the direction of the coffee bar.

Did she go for it? No she fobbed me off. But do you see the way it might work, even with stuffy Brits.

Could it be most Brit BLOKES are too worried about what other people think and what's acceptable.

Just to rant on alittle more. Over the holiday break I read up on some new material- the spanking thing in DYD. I thought to myself, that will never work, no way will you get away with that.

So tried it and all I can say is I've done it 3 times now and all were positive responses. One in particular is promising.

 

[jt4aa]

ok first up cold approaches can be done if you learn the knack. Just walk round and talk to everybody and it'll come easily - i don't see it being different to anywhere else to be honest. I find bus stops are the best place to chat up girls and I have got numbers and more this way.

On the concept of dating this annoys the hell outta me. A female mate of mine recently found out that i'd asked one of her mates out and she replied with "I didn't think people did that around here" (she seemed astonished to say the least). And the worst part is she's totally right. I find it almost impossible to date women you just can't do it - It's either your with them or your not and theres no inbetween.

As for pubs and clubs the best way to pull is to go out with a load of guys and girls that respect you because then everybody else u don't know instantly takes a shine to you. This is where I usually feel in my element (although I always get stick from my mates for drinking pints of water inbetween drinks when i'm out!).

To be quite honest I think its sh1t in the UK for this stuff (i live in Leeds). I almost feel as if i'm outgrowing the UK to some degree. Most guys don't have a clue about anything here and its almost dangerous for me to go out at times because of all the hate i get from them.

So yea, maybe there should be a UK forum after all. We could definetly use the help

 

[Not Quite There]