Divorced Women and The Baggage They Carry

[Vulpine]

Let's cover all the bases and put this b!tch to bed.

One guy addressed the children issue and I am the only one that addressed both of his questions. Why is that? He's not asking what age women he should date. So why are so many people shoving their views down his throat about age?

Again, discounting the advice of authorities to promote your worthless advice. Very un-DJ.

1. Culture. Culture is culture. Younger women, older women, same culture here. He isn't going to find different culture in older women than younger women. Cultural behavior isn't different. That arguement is bunk.

2. Divorce. Again, culture. The culture here is that women can do what they please, including getting married and getting divorced without any ill effects for them. In fact, the courts/laws ENCOURAGE this behavior by rewarding women with half of a man's assets. Divorced women have played this system to their advantage, and they'll play men to their advantage as well.

3. Kids. Her kids are not your kids. Are you going to be responsible for her kids should you choose to become serious? Yes. In her eyes, yes; in the kids' eyes, yes; in the law's eyes, yes. Will you be negatively affected? Yes. Your time with the woman will be split with the kids, portions of your finances will be devoted to the kids, and the woman's attentions will be split with the kids. Her kids are not your kids. Kids are like an STD. If you want her, you have to except her VD, because it will become yours - whether you want it or not.

4. Attitude. Culture again. Young women have crap attitudes and just don't know any better. Older women have crap attitudes and don't know any better, either. The difference is that older women SHOULD know better. And if that older woman has kids and has been divorced, she should DEFINITELY know better. She should know that as she ages, her market value goes down and she won't be able to get away with the same crap she could've when she didn't have varicose veins and cottage cheese azz/thighs. The problem is, the culture promotes the crappy attitude. The culture trains women that there are no consequences for poor behavior. In this culture, women know that they can behave however they please, get knocked up by whomever they please, marry and divorce whomever they please, get as fat as they please... and some retarded AFC dude will still "accept them for their mistakes". The AFCs and feminized males so prevalent in the US will cuckold for her kids, have faith that even though she's been married and divorced before "this time with me will be different", and tollerate any and all poor behavior and disrespect out of fear that the woman will withold sex or leave. This social training yields the princess barbie complex. It trains women that they are unaccountable and infallible: men are always wrong because they don't have a rack and a gap. That's the crap attitude, and the hows and whys behind it.

Now, it MUST be said that older women in fact have CRAPPIER attitudes. And women with kids and/or divorces have even CRAPPIER attitudes still. Why? Because they have made even more mistakes, and men STILL accept these women as datable, even pursue them. This escalates their pedestal, this further rewards them for their mistakes/bad behavior, this promotes their unaccountability and infallibility.

Then factor in any resentment for her kids, or resentment of the failed marriage, and you have one helluva crappy attitude.

++++

What's left to do for a woman in this (old, divorced, with kids) situation? Deal with it. They can't change anything about their situation, so they can only deal with it. How? Smoke and mirrors. Bait and switch. Makeup. Dangling carrots. They deal with it with deceit and trickery. Riledcrier and other old, divorced women with kids can deny and argue all they want with "that's just not true!" and "shame on you for not following your heart, big bad man" for her proof, but it won't change reality one bit: women with no value/decreased value will promote, hype up good qualities, justify, shame, and throw everything at you but the kitchen sink in an attempt to distract you from, and persuade to accept her major, major, major fvckups.

I say major, major, major fvckups because...

1. old and single: major fvckup for a woman. The clock is ticking and market value is decreasing!

2. divorce: major fvckup for a woman (US feminine culture says, "no it's not". A DJ says, "yes, it is".)

3. Kids: there is no fvckup greater. In fact, it's a multiplier of fvckeduptitude.

You want to "watch for flags?" Let's count them - time for DJ math!

Young & single = 0 (crappy US attitude is baseline standard)

Old & single = fvckup

Young & single with kid = 2 x fvckup
(1 fvckup for having the kid + 1 fvckup for fvcking up the kid)

Old & single with kid = 3 x fvckup
(1 fvckup for having the kid + 1 fvckup for fvcking up the kid + 1 fvckup for being old and single)

Old & single with 2 kids = 6 x fvckup
(1 fvckup for having each kid outside of stable family situation (2) + 1 fvckup for fvcking up each kid (2) + 1 fvckup for having the SECOND kid outside of a stable family situation - should have stopped at one + 1 fvckup for being old and single)

Old, single, divorced = 3 x fvckup
(1 fvckup for being old + 1 fvckup for breaking that promise/lying/failing that institution + 1 fvckup for the reasons she'll never tell you for the divorce/wasting another person's time/marrying a person they would ultimately divorce/bad judgement/burdening the court system/bad juju, etc.)

Old, single, divorced, kid = 10x fvckup
(3 x fvckup for being Old, single, divorced) X (3 x fvckup for being old & single with kid) + (1 fvckup for father's sake and damage to his relationship with kid)

^^^ Why multiplied? The woman knew she was taking the kid out of a family structure, was going to screw up the kid, wasted the father's life, (if religious, lied to god), shouldn't have had the kid or the marriage in the first place, the ex is going to be hanging around in her life because of the kids, and she knew all the damages that were going to be caused by divorce and proceeded to get it anyway.

Oh sure, certain exceptions must be made for certain scenarios, such as spousal abuse, drug addictions, and things of that nature. But, those reasons don't completely nullify the fvckups. In fact, they count as other fvckups and get added back in. As in, the woman fvcked up when she married an abuser or the woman fvcked up when she married a drug addict. But what if the guy cheated? It's still a strike against her: had she not gotten fat, not adopted a crap attitude, was willing to adventure in the sack, not witheld sex to get her way, etc. the man would not have been likely to cheat.

So, if you were lived by a 3 strike rule and counted flags...

It's best to start at "zero".

You'll notice that nowhere in the DJ math does "love", "feelings", or "happy" appear as factors. You may wonder why. The reason is...
THESE FVCKUP WOMEN WERE DISQUALIFIED AS TARGETS/OPTIONS BEFORE THESE EMOTIONS COULD BE GENERATED/EXPERIENCED!
______
Care to argue?

U.S. women won't accept this responsibility, won't admit these are mistakes: unaccountable and infallible. They can only "deal with it", and they do so with denial, shaming men, and blaming men. And men nod and accept these fvckups... because it's so frequent, and so commonly accepted that it's the standard. It's everywhere: TV, Radio, Magazines. Thus, the AFC; average being the keyword in this case. This is the matrix. This is why we are here. And, AND, DJ philosophies and methodologies are contrary to the popular and generally accepted views, so the DJ draws criticisms and arguement from those who oppose, those who don't understand, and those who stand to "lose out" if the DJ philosophies and methodologies become more popular (i.e.: fat women, feminists, fvckup women, afc's).

What women fail to grasp, what women fail to consider, is that if there were MORE DJ's, WOMEN would be better off.

 

[wayword]

^ DAYMMMMMM!!!!

If we had a male Oprah...you'd be the male Dr. Phil!!

That speech was BEAUUTIFUULLL!!!!! Eat your heart out Tom Leykis! :cheer:

It really showcases the power of male logic to accurately cut through the fog of emotions like a laser and see the full harsh reality of a situation. Whereas emotional advice from women is like a smoke machine in that situation.

'Nuff said. I think this should settle it.

The End!

 

[blueguy]

I loved the Jerry Springer comment. What happened to it?

And Frank, where do you live, and how many younger girls have you dated or been in an ltr with?

 

[Wyldfire]

1. Culture. Culture in Africa is a far cry different than culture in the United States.

2. Divorce. Divorce, like marriage, takes TWO people. If a divorced woman is automatically damaged goods that has insurmountable baggage and cannot ever be a quality partner then the same applies to divorced men. Men who are divorced are EQUALLY responsible for their failed marriages. No exceptions or excuses. Rational people typically realize that people are only human and do make mistakes. It is whether or not they learn from those mistakes that is important. Someone who has been married multiple times and failed over and over again is a red flag. Someone who has been married once and divorced is not a red flag.

3. Kids. Anyone who views other human beings (the children of someone else) as "baggage" or in a similar way are just as unworthy of a single parent's time and energy as the single parent is to the person who hates kids. This is a given. However, there are many people who love kids and view them as a gift, joy, pleasure and worth investing in since they are the future generations. If you hate kids...by all means...stay away from single parents. If you only hate the kids of other men it reeks of insecurity and jealousy issues. That is serious baggage and a HUGE red flag.

4. Attitude. Attitude improves with maturity. Maturity improves with age, as a rule. A Study done by Else Frenkel-Brunswik found that at age 25 92% of a person's wishes are directed towards themselves. That is typical...and demonstrative of the selfishness shown by younger men and women. As a person ages, that percentage decreases and by the time they are 60 years old only 29% of their wishes (and energy) is selfish. Older women are less selfish...as are older men. Older men (over 35) have an easier time dealing with the selfishness of younger women because the men are less selfish. Older women have an easier time dealing with the selfishness of younger men because older women are less selfish. Younger men (under 35) have a harder time dealing with younger women because both are more selfish by nature.

 

[Mr.Positive]

Vulpine!!! More DJ Math, that's what we need!

My question is, how do you offset fvckups and stay in the positive?

A HB10 with an IL of 10=20, is that worth 2 fvckups? using a base of 10.

I'm sold, DJ math is the key!! We need more!

 

[STR8UP]

And frank is time to stop whinning and crying and take charge of your life.

YOU are the PROBLEM.

I agree.

I don't date women who are older than I am (not that I am completely opposed to it, but I generally hook up with younger chicks), but I have several female friends who are close to my age, and one who is older by a couple of years.

The older one is an AW. Still an attractive woman, but gaining weight and starting to show signs of age. I have fooled around with her a few times but I would NEVER date her. She's as bad or worse than any of the younger chicks who think they have a golden pu$$y.

The others....well, I dated one for awhile. Did I notice any difference between her and younger chicks? Yea, she made good money. That's about it. Oh yea, and the fact that half the time I was with her and her friends they would sit around and bash younger chicks. Otherwise it was indistinguishable from dating a younger woman.

Women are women. Once they hit their mid 20's they aren't gonna mature a whole lot more than they already have.

 

[Vulpine]

Responses in bold.

1. Culture. Culture in Africa is a far cry different than culture in the United States.
This is true. And this is why you are about to proceed to argue DJ logic. You unaccountable, infallible, woman from the US. Now watch as you "deal with your situation" and support my be all, end all post using smoke and mirrors, blame, and shame on men...
2. Divorce. Divorce, like marriage, takes TWO people. If a divorced woman is automatically damaged goods that has insurmountable baggage and cannot ever be a quality partner then the same applies to divorced men. Men who are divorced are EQUALLY responsible for their failed marriages. No exceptions or excuses. Rational people typically realize that people are only human and do make mistakes. It is whether or not they learn from those mistakes that is important. Someone who has been married multiple times and failed over and over again is a red flag. Someone who has been married once and divorced is not a red flag.
Men aren't the issue here. The discussion is titled: "Divorced Women and The Baggage They Carry". Who's fault the divorce was irrelevant. The truth is, and the only thing that matters, that a divorced woman was married and is now divorced. That's it. What she learned is irrelevant. Number is irrelevant. Divorced = fvckup. We aren't dating the divorced man, are we? So WTF do we care about it?

3. Kids. Anyone who views other human beings (the children of someone else) as "baggage" or in a similar way are just as unworthy of a single parent's time and energy as the single parent is to the person who hates kids. This is a given. You can't arbitrarily deem fallacies and opinion as "given". Children are a responsibility and a burden, thus, baggage. I have a pet cat, and it is a responsibility and a burden, thus baggage, an anchor that weighs me down. Oh damn, I think kids are baggage and I'm not worth of single parent's tme and energy... you know what, fine, have it your way because I'm not trying to impress single mommies. However, there are many people who love kids and view them as a gift, joy, pleasure and worth investing in since they are the future generations. If you hate kids...by all means...stay away from single parents. If you only hate the kids of other men it reeks of insecurity and jealousy issues. That is serious baggage and a HUGE red flag. If this is directed at me, you are jumping to false conclusions in a hasty scramble to SHAME AND BLAME. I love kids. I don't hate other people's kids. In fact, I call people fvckups that have children out of wedlock and out of stable family situations because of the damage it does to the kids: the parents are fvckups for not fully providing for the kid. I love kids, and they deserve stable families to grow up in.
4. Attitude. Attitude improves with maturity. LIE Maturity improves with age, as a rule. THERE IS NO SUCH RULE. Again, False. A Study done by Else Frenkl-Brunswik found that at age 25 92% of a person's wishes are directed towards themselves. That is typical...and demonstrative of the selfishness shown by younger men and women. As a person ages, that percentage decreases and by the time they are 60 years old only 29% of their wishes (and energy) is selfish. Older women are less selfish...as are older men. ZZZZZzzzzz...... Older men (over 35) have an easier time dealing with the selfishness of younger women because the men are less selfish. SPECULATION, NOT TRUTH Older women have an easier time dealing with the selfishness of younger men because older women are less selfish. WHO CARES WHAT OLDER WOMEN HAVE TO DEAL WITH? WHO CARES ABOUT THE SELFISHNESS OF YOUNGER MEN? THESE ARE ARGUEMENTS IN SOME OTHER DISCUSSION, NOT THIS ONE. Younger men (under 35) have a harder time dealing with younger women because both are more selfish by nature. YOU ARE RANDOMLY PULLING SH!T OUT OF YOUR AZZ AT THIS POINT. YOUR VERSION OF DJ MATH IS "moldy twinkies + blue marbles = 37 dancing monkeys!"

Shame and blame, shame and blame, shame and blame.

Selfishness is only one aspect of one's attitude.

Your arguement, the fact that bothered to post, is ridiculous. The issue is not men. The issue is not fault. Read it again, Riledcrier.

Care to argue?

U.S. women won't accept this responsibility, won't admit these are mistakes: unaccountable and infallible. They can only "deal with it", and they do so with denial, shaming men, and blaming men.

Denial, shame, and blame. Look at you proving me right, woman.

You are proving the "crappy attitude" point by being argumentative. You are proving the infallibility by bringing up men in your arguements. You are proving unaccountability by calling fvckups something other than what they are: fvckups.

 

[WestCoaster]

1. Culture. Culture in Africa is a far cry different than culture in the United States.

2. Divorce. Divorce, like marriage, takes TWO people. If a divorced woman is automatically damaged goods that has insurmountable baggage and cannot ever be a quality partner then the same applies to divorced men. Men who are divorced are EQUALLY responsible for their failed marriages. No exceptions or excuses. Rational people typically realize that people are only human and do make mistakes. It is whether or not they learn from those mistakes that is important. Someone who has been married multiple times and failed over and over again is a red flag. Someone who has been married once and divorced is not a red flag.

3. Kids. Anyone who views other human beings (the children of someone else) as "baggage" or in a similar way are just as unworthy of a single parent's time and energy as the single parent is to the person who hates kids. This is a given. However, there are many people who love kids and view them as a gift, joy, pleasure and worth investing in since they are the future generations. If you hate kids...by all means...stay away from single parents. If you only hate the kids of other men it reeks of insecurity and jealousy issues. That is serious baggage and a HUGE red flag.

4. Attitude. Attitude improves with maturity. Maturity improves with age, as a rule. A Study done by Else Frenkl-Brunswik found that at age 25 92% of a person's wishes are directed towards themselves. That is typical...and demonstrative of the selfishness shown by younger men and women. As a person ages, that percentage decreases and by the time they are 60 years old only 29% of their wishes (and energy) is selfish. Older women are less selfish...as are older men. Older men (over 35) have an easier time dealing with the selfishness of younger women because the men are less selfish. Older women have an easier time dealing with the selfishness of younger men because older women are less selfish. Younger men (under 35) have a harder time dealing with younger women because both are more selfish by nature.

1. He doesn't live in Africa. If he wants the African culture, he should seek out African women to date -- at any age.

2. A divorced woman has baggage, just like a divorced man does. Frank has a "2" as the first letter in his age, which means he automatically should not be dating older, divorced women.

3. Kids -- They're great when you're married. When you're single, a MAN should be working on his career and his interests, especially with that "2" in front of his age. Someone else's kids? Those should be someone else's problem, not a 29-year olds. If he's 40, the dynamic changes, at 29 he should be dating 18-30 year olds like there's no tomorrow.

4. Attitude -- 99.9 percent of the older women and older divorced women I've met have the same issues and man-hating problems than the 18-30's I've met. Actually, I'll correct that: Women at age 30 on up develop the bitter gene, they're way into man hating, much more so than younger women. Their attitudes if anything get worse with time. Date women with better attitudes.

5. You're projecting your own feelings on this because you're 41, divorced, with kids, and single. Your advice is damaging to a 29-year old male trying to find his way in the dating scene ... and you know that.

 

[Vulpine]

1. He doesn't live in Africa. If he wants the African culture, he should seek out African women to date -- at any age.
WORD!
2. A divorced woman has baggage, just like a divorced man does. ...
BUT FRANK ISN'T TRYING TO DATE A DIVORCED MAN!
3. Kids -- They're great when you're married. When you're single, a MAN should be working on his career and his interests, especially with that "2" in front of his age. Someone else's kids? Those should be someone else's problem, not a 29-year olds. If he's 40, the dynamic changes, at 29 he should be dating 18-30 year olds like there's no tomorrow.
WORD!
4. Attitude -- 99.9 percent of the older women and older divorced women I've met have the same issues and man-hating problems than the 18-30's I've met. Actually, I'll correct that: Women at age 30 on up develop the bitter gene, they're way into man hating, much more so than younger women. Their attitudes if anything get worse with time. Date women with better attitudes.
Oh no, here you go sharing experience. Shame on you for seeing a recurring negative theme with women!
5. You're projecting your own feelings on this because you're 41, divorced, with kids, and single. Your advice is damaging to a 29-year old male trying to find his way in the dating scene ... and you know that. Come on, take off the kid gloves. Don't sugar-coat what you really want to tell her: "You're a fvckup."

Great post, WestCoaster.

 

[RedPill]

[the DJ Math post]

Write it down, I owe you a case of beer or a fifth of something for this post.

Fukking Pulitzer-worthy.

 

[Vulpine]

Thank you moderators.

I saw a flicker of yet another ridiculous and emotional post filled with irrelevant arguements and self-validation, but when I clicked on "quote" to punch holes in all the garbage and misleading propaganda and show how it only furthered my points, it was gone.

Whew...

Thanks for saving me the time and effort I would have needed to debunk more AFC/Feminist crap.

Rep + to whoever knocked that one out and saved them further embarrassment.

Write it down, I owe you a case of beer or a fifth of something for this post.

Fukking Pulitzer-worthy.

Maybe someday, dude. You're welcome, and thanks.

 

[Wyldfire]

1. He doesn't live in Africa. If he wants the African culture, he should seek out African women to date -- at any age.

Because he is from Africa he is used to women who are very different from the younger women in the US. It means he is going to be turned off and attracted to things differently than American men are. He sounds like he cares most about substance. Younger women quite frequently are lacking in substance. American men are more interested in the prettiest arm piece to have sex with. Different priorities...

2. A divorced woman has baggage, just like a divorced man does. Frank has a "2" as the first letter in his age, which means he automatically should not be dating older, divorced women.

If Frank likes older women (divorced or not) and she treats him good and he's happy he should date whomever he wants to regardless of age.

3. Kids -- They're great when you're married. When you're single, a MAN should be working on his career and his interests, especially with that "2" in front of his age. Someone else's kids? Those should be someone else's problem, not a 29-year olds. If he's 40, the dynamic changes, at 29 he should be dating 18-30 year olds like there's no tomorrow.

Again...everyone's thoughts on kids are different. If he is bothered by a woman having children then he should not date a woman with kids. If he isn't bothered by it then he shouldn't let that make him turn away from a woman who fits the other things he is looking for.

4. Attitude -- 99.9 percent of the older women and older divorced women I've met have the same issues and man-hating problems than the 18-30's I've met. Actually, I'll correct that: Women at age 30 on up develop the bitter gene, they're way into man hating, much more so than younger women. Their attitudes if anything get worse with time. Date women with better attitudes.

This simply is not true. There are women from all ages who hate men just like there are men from all ages who hate women. Women and men with these attitudes should be avoided at all costs...regardless of age. The sad truth is that I've seen far more bitter older men who hate women on this site than I have seen bitter older women who hate men. The point is...bitter people are negative...and unattractive because no one likes to be around negativity. I highly doubt that Frank will be making any bee-lines towards women who are miserable. If he'll next a very young woman for her attitude what makes you think he won't do the same thing with an older woman with a crap attitude?

5. You're projecting your own feelings on this because you're 41, divorced, with kids, and single. Your advice is damaging to a 29-year old male trying to find his way in the dating scene ... and you know that.

I'm not projecting my own feelings at all. I don't care who he dates. Although I get asked out all the time by men who are much younger, my age and older...I don't date. I LOVE being a single mom and raising my kids. I LOVE going to school, volunteering, working from home setting my own hours and helping people. What on earth do I stand to gain by him dating an older woman? The same thing I stand to lose if he dates younger women...nothing.

It really shouldn't matter so much to the men on here, either...and I don't think it would if I hadn't of posted on this thread. Go figure...

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

What you have here is a classic Schedules of Mating dillema.

All you're describing is methods women have used for centuries to ensure that the best male's genes are selected and secured with the best male provisioning she's capable of attracting. Rarely do the two exist in the same male (particularly these days) so in the interest of achieving her biological imperative, and prompted by a biologicaly seated need for security, the feminine develops social conventions and methodologies (which change as her environment does) to effect this. And, in light of advances in decoding the human genetic code, this old methodology is being uncovered in earnest for the first time. Men are not only up against a female genetic imperative, but also a centuries long feminine social convention established from a time long before human beings could accurately determine genetic origins.

I've aleady detailed in many prior posts that mate selection is a psycho-biological function that our millenias of evolution has hardwired into both sexes. So internalized and socialized is this process into our collective psyches that we rarely recognize that we're subject to these motivators even when we continually repeat the same behaviors manifested by them. So saying that we're not subject to conditions we're not, or are only vaguely aware of is a bit naive.

It's simple deductive logic to follow that for a species to survive it must provide it's offspring with the best possible conditions to ensure it's survival - either that or to reproduce in such quantity that it ensures survival. The obvious application of this for women is sharing parental investment with the best possible mate her own genetics allow her to attract and who can provide long term security for her and their potential offspring. Thus women are the filters of their own reproduction where as men's reproductive methodology is to scatter as much of his genetic material as humanly possible to the widest available quantity of fertile females. He of course has his own criteria for mating selection and determining the best genetic hosts for his reproduction (i.e. she's gotta be hot), but this criteria is certainly less discriminating than that for women (i.e. no one's ugly after 2am). This is evidenced in our own hormonal biology; men posess 17 times the amount of testosterone women do and women produce substantially more estrogen and oxytocin than men.

That stated, both of these methodologies conflict in practice. For a woman to best ensure the survival of her young, a man must necessarily abandon his method of reproduction. This then sets an imperative for him to pair with a woman who will satisfy his methodology. A male must sacrifice his reproduction schedule to satisfy that of the woman he pairs with. With so much genetic potential at stake on his part of the risk, he want's not only to ensure that she is the best possible candidate for breeding with, but also to know that his progeny will benefit from both parents involvement.

One interesting outcome of this psycho-biological dynamic is men's ability to spot their own children in a crowd of other children more quickly and with greater accuity than even their mothers. Studies have shown that men have the ability to more quickly and accurately identify their own children in a room full of kids dressed in the same uniforms than the mothers of the child. Again, this stresses the subconscious importance of this genetic trade off.

Social Convention

To counter this subconscious dynamic to their own genetic advantage women initiate social conventions and psychological schemas to better facilitate their own breeding methodologies. This is why women always have the "prerogative to change her mind" and the most fickle of behaviors become socially excusable, while men's behavior is constrained to a higher standard to "do the right thing" which is invarably to the advantage of a woman. This is why guys who are 'Players', and fathers who abandon mothers and children to pursue their innate reproduction method are villains, and fathers who selflessly sacrifice themselves financially, emotionally and life decision-wise are considered heroes for complying with women's genetic imperatives.

This is also the root motivation for female-specific social dynamics such as LJBF rejections, women's propensity for victimhood (as they've learned that this engenders 'savior' mental schemas for men's breeding schedules - Capn' Save a Ho) and even marriage itself.

Good Dads vs Good Genes

The two greatest difficulties for women to overcome in their own methodology is that they are only at a sexually viable peak for a short window of time (generally their 20s) and the fact that the qualities that make a good long term partner (the Good Dad) and the qualities that make for good breeding stock (Good Genes) rarely manifest themselves in the same male. Provisioning and security potential are fantastic motivators for pairing with a Good Dad, but the same characteristics that make him such are generally a disadvantage when compared with the man who better exemplifies genetic, physical attraction and the risk taking qualities that would imbue her child with a better capacity to adapt to it's environment (i.e stronger, faster, more attractive than others to ensure the passing of her own genetic material to future generations). This is the Jerk vs. Nice Guy paradox writ large on an evolutionary scale.

Men and women innately (though unconsciously) understand this dynamic, so in order for a woman to have the best that the Good Dad has to offer while taking advantage of the best that the Good Genes man has, she must invent and constantly modify social conventions to keep the advantage in her biological favor.

Reproductive Schedules

This paradox then necessitates that women (and by defalut men) must subscribe to short term and long term schdules of mating. Short term schedules facilitate breeding with the Good Genes male, while long term breeding is reserved the Good Dad male. This convention and the psycho-social schemas that accompany it are precisely why women will marry the Nice Guy, stable, loyal, (preferably) doctor and still fvck the pool boy or the cute surfer she met on spring break. In our genetic past a male with good genes implied an ability to be a good provider, but modern convention has thwarted this so new social and mental schemas had to be developed for women.

Cheating

For this dynamic and the practicality of enjoying the best of both genetic worlds, women find it necessary to 'cheat'. This cheating can be done proactively or reactively.

In the reactive model, a woman who has already paired with her long term partner choice, engages in an extramarital or pairing, sexual intercourse with a short term partner (i.e. the cheating wife or girlfriend). That's not to say this short term opportunity cannot develop into a 2nd, long term mate, but the action itself is a method for securing better genetic stock than the committed male provider is capable of supplying.

Proactive cheating is the single Mommy dillema. This form of 'cheating' relies on the woman breeding with a Good Genes male, bearing his children and then abandoning him, or having him abandon her, (again through invented social conventions) in order to find a Good Dad male to provide for her and the children of her Good Genes partner to ensure their security.

I want to stress again that (most) women do not have some consciously recognized, master plan to enact this cycle and deliberately trap men into it. Rather the motivations for this behavior and the accompanying rationales invented to justify it are an unconscious process. I fervently believe that for the most part, women are unaware of this dynamic, but are nonetheless subject to it's influence. For a female of any species to facilitate a methodology for breeding with the best genetic partner she's able to attract AND to ensure her own and her offspring's survival with the best provisioning partner; this is an evolutionary jackpot.

 

[2Cool]

The DJ math doesn't account for husband's death, being a wife beater, a child abuser, a financial misfit, a criminal with no redeeming values, and a total f'up himself. Let's not bash women completely here, there is some ownership on the otherside.

Sorry to refute the math, but it was rather creative and interesting.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

The Cuckold

On some level of consciousness, men innately sense something is wrong with this situation, though they may not be able to place why they feel it or misunderstand it in the confusion of women's justifications for it. Or they become frustrated by the social pressures to 'do the right thing' and are shamed into martyrdom/savior-hood and committed by feigned responsibility to these conventions. Nevertheless, some see it well enough to stear clear of single mothers, etiher by prior experience or observing other male cuckolds saddled with the responsibility of raising and providing for - no matter how involved or uninvolved - another man's successful reproduction efforts with this woman.

The man in this position is (or at the very least interpreted as) a Cuckold. He will never enjoy the same benefits as his mates short term partner(s) to the same degree, in the way of sexual desire or immediacy of it, while at the same time enduring the social pressures of having to provide for this Good Genes father's progeny. It could be argued that he may contibute minimally to their wellfare, but on some level, whether emotional, physical, financial or educational he will contribute some effort for another man's genetic material in exchange for limited form of sexuality/intimacy from the mother. To some degree, (even if only by his presence) he is sharing the parental investment that should be borne by the short term partner. If nothing else, he contibutes the time and effort to her he could be better invested in finding a sexual partner with which he could pursue his own genetic imperative by his own methodology. It is simply not worth his effort to couple with a single mother when compared to a woman without children.

However, needless to say, there is no shortage of men sexually deprived enough to 'see past' the long term disadvantages, and not only rewarding, but reinforcing a single mother's bad decisions (bad from his own interest's POV) with regard to her breeding selections and schedules in exchange for short term sexual gratification. Furthermore, by reinforcing her behavior thusly, he reinforces the social convention for both men and women. It's important to bear in mind that in this age women are ultimately, soley responsible for the men they choose to mate with (baring rape of course) AND giving birth to their children. Men do bear responsibility for their actions no doubt, but it is ultimately the decision of the female and her judgement that decides her and her children's fate.

 

[Vulpine]

Here we go again. Why do you bother typing?

Because he is from Africa he is used to women who are very different from the younger women in the US. PROBABLY TRUE It means he is going to be turned off and attracted to things differently than American men are. I'm pretty sure he'd be turned off by crappy attitudes and fat, and attracted to big t!tties and a nice azz just as American men are: SPECULATION not "it means". He sounds like he cares most about substance. Younger women quite frequently are lacking in substance. CONJURED, SPECULATION, OPINION OF AN OLD, DIVORCED, WOMAN WITH KIDS American men are more interested in the prettiest arm piece to have sex with. FALSE: CONJURED, SPECULATION, OPINION OF AN OLD, DIVORCED, WOMAN WITH KIDS Different priorities... SPECULATION


If Frank likes older women (divorced or not) and she treats him good BAD GRAMMAR! "treats him well" and he's happy he should date whomever he wants to regardless of age. CRAPPY SPECULATION/ADVICE/OPINION ATTEMPTING TO SHAME DJ'S. NO, HE SHOULD HAVE DISQUALIFIED HER LONG BEFORE SHE COULD "TREAT HIM GOOD"(SIC) OR ATTEMPT TO MAKE HIM HAPPY.



Again...everyone's thoughts on kids are different. If he is bothered by a woman having children then he should not date a woman with kids. TRUE If he isn't bothered by it then he shouldn't let that make him turn away from a woman who fits the other things he is looking for. HE SHOULD BE BOTHERED: THEY AREN'T HIS KIDS. THE WOMAN FVCKED UP.



This simply is not true. There are women from all ages who hate men just like there are men from all ages who hate women. WHO CARES WHO MEN HATE? THE TOPIC IS "DIVORCED WOMEN AND THE BAGGAGE THEY CARRY" IRRELEVANT. Women and men with these attitudes should be avoided at all costs...regardless of age. STRAIGHT MEN SHOULD AVOID DATING MEN? DUH? The sad truth is that I've seen far more bitter older men who hate women on this site than I have seen bitter older women who hate men. WHO CARES HOW MANY BITTER MEN YOU'VE SEEN? THE TOPIC IS "DIVORCED WOMEN AND THE BAGGAGE THEY CARRY". The point is...bitter people are negative...and unattractive because no one likes to be around negativity. OK. I highly doubt that Frank will be making any bee-lines towards women who are miserable. WHAT IF THEY DON'T INITIALLY APPEAR MISERABLE? If he'll next a very young woman for her attitude what makes you think he won't do the same thing with an older woman with a crap attitude? WHAT MAKES ME THINK HE WON'T DO THE SAME? TRY "HE SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN DATING THE OLDER WOMAN IN THE FIRST PLACE BECAUSE CRAP ATTITUDE IS VIRTUALLY GUARANTEED".



I'm not projecting my own feelings at all. LIE. You certainly aren't projecting DJ philosophies. I don't care who he dates. THEN WHY ARE YOU GIVING HIM ADVICE? Although I get asked out all the time by men who are much younger, my age and older...I don't date. WE DON'T CARE WHO YOU GET ASKED OUT BY (YOUNGER AFC'S, AFC'S YOUR AGE, AND OLDER AFC'S BTW) OR DATE. THIS ISN'T "VALIDATE RILEDCRIER" THIS IS "DIVORCED WOMEN AND THE BAGGAGE THEY CARRY". IRRELEVANT PROJECTION OF FEELINGS, LIAR. I LOVE being a single mom and raising my kids. WE DON'T CARE ABOUT RAISING YOUR KIDS. IRRELEVANT PROJECTION OF FEELINGS, LIAR. I LOVE going to school, volunteering, working from home setting my own hours and helping people. WE DON'T CARE ABOUT YOUR HOBBIES. IRRELEVANT PROJECTION OF FEELINGS, LIAR.What on earth do I stand to gain by him dating an older woman? WHAT ON EARTH DO YOU STAND TO GAIN BY ARGUING AGAINST HIM BEING A DJ? The same thing I stand to lose if he dates younger women...nothing. FALSE. ONE LESS MAN WHO WILL ACCEPT YOUR FVCKUPS THAT WON'T GIVE YOU THE TIME OF DAY. IRRELEVANT PROJECTION OF FEELINGS, LIAR.

It really shouldn't matter so much to the men on here, either...and I don't think it would if I hadn't of posted on this thread. Shaming men to discount their advice. Go figure...IRRELEVANT PROJECTION OF FEELINGS, LIAR.

It DOES matter to the men on here. WHY? Because this is a site where MEN help AFC's become MEN; BETTER MEN. We are helping him because this is why we are here: to become better men. And we came here for the same reasons he has. We aren't here for validation, we aren't here for entertainment, and we aren't here to promote the same fvcked up logic that brought us here.

 

[Wyldfire]

Since we're speaking biology...

Single mothers have no need or urgency to find a man. Women are entirely capable of supporting a family today. She has the companionship of her children and is never lonely. Women do not share the same physical need for sex that men have....she has already had her children and the same view Rollo is sharing claims that the only reason a woman desires sex is to bear children.

A woman can raise a child on her own...people do it every day. Many do it by choice through adoption or artificial insemination...and others through circumstance.

So, through the argument Rollo makes...all these women are rushing out to have babies with a sense of urgency. They have these babies with young strapping studs of men with good genes. So where does this leave those men who hit 40, 45, 50 and up when they start showing their age and those younger women won't even look at them anymore? It leaves them fishing from the very same dating pool they claim is unacceptable to fish from. The problem is...those women are still able to attract those young strapping studs and the middle aged guy is left high and dry.

 

[Vulpine]

The DJ math doesn't account for husband's death, being a wife beater, a child abuser, a financial misfit, a criminal with no redeeming values, and a total f'up himself. Let's not bash women completely here, there is some ownership on the otherside.

Sorry to refute the math, but it was rather creative and interesting.

Right, but if you factor in a woman getting involved with a wife beater, financial misfit, a criminal, and a fvckup, then you count her bad judgement/poor taste/lack of discretion as a fvckup. Women reject men for less all the time.

The husband dying is pretty much the only thing that would nullify "divorce" as a fvckup. But, in that case, it wouldn't be a divorce. And, a widow would still be pretty fvcked up emotionally (trust issues, PTSD, whatever), so you would STILL count it as a "fvckup", albeit one she had no control over. You'd count it as a strike, but not a "fvckup".

 

[Vulpine]

Since we're speaking biology...

Single mothers have no need or urgency to find a man. FALSE! FINANCIAL SUPPORT, FATHER FIGURE, NEED) Women are entirely capable of supporting a family today. FALSE! "FAMILY" INCLUDES A "FATHER". She has the companionship of her children and is never lonely. SPECULATION, IRRELEVANT PROJECTION OF FEELINGS, LIAR. Women do not share the same physical need for sex that men have....falseshe has already had her children and the same view Rollo is sharing claims that the only reason a woman desires sex is to bear children. AND ONCE SHE HAS THEM, SHE NEVER DESIRES SEX? FALSE!

A woman can raise a child on her own...people do it every day. TRUE AND FALSE! "PEOPLE" is plural, as in, "MOTHER AND FATHER". A WOMAN CAN RAISE (A FVCKED UP) CHILD ON HER OWN. TRUE! Many do it by choice through adoption or artificial insemination...and others through circumstance. MANY SHOULDN'T, BUT RAISE FVCKED UP KIDS BY THEMSELVES ANYWAY.

So, through the argument Rollo makes...all these women are rushing out to have babies with a sense of urgency. They have these babies with young strapping studs of men with good genes. TRUE So where does this leave those men who hit 40, 45, 50 and up when they start showing their age and those younger women won't even look at them anymore? FUNNY THING IS... THIS DOESN'T HAPPEN! WOMEN LOOOOOVE OLDER MEN! IRRELEVANT PROJECTION OF FEELINGS, LIAR.It leaves them fishing from the very same dating pool they claim is unacceptable to fish from. TRUE FOR AN AFC, FALSE FOR A DJ! DJ'S FISH FROM THE SAME DATING POOL REGARDLESS OF THEIR AGE! The problem is...those women are still able to attract those young strapping studs and the middle aged guy is left high and dry. THAT'S ONLY PARTIALLY TRUE: THEY ARE ATTRACTING YOUNG, STRAPPING, AFC'S, SO IT'S IRRELEVANT. BESIDES, LET WOMEN WITH KIDS FUX CUCKOLDS AND AFC'S - THE 40, 45, 50 AND UP DJ'S WILL BE TAGGING 20-30 YEAR OLDS, NOT THE SINGLE MOMMIES!

What? No shame and blame? Well, you are still trying to discredit more reliable and authoritative sources.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

the same view Rollo is sharing claims that the only reason a woman desires sex is to bear children,..

All I've done is point out the biological imperatives, nowhere did I state that women exclusively view sex for reproductive purposes only. I did however point out that these mechanisms, for both sexes, are all active whether we choose to recognize them or not.