Divorced Women and The Baggage They Carry

[Rollo Tomassi]

Hitting it with older women is too easy since the imperative for older women (particularly divorced ones) is to affirm themselves and their waning sexual marketability after their mid 30s. And nothing gives them more affirmation than a younger, muscular guy to show off to their also aging girlfriends and their overweight ex-husbands while getting sexual gratification too. In essence, you supply them with a false affirmation that "they still got it", when in reality they're motivated by what their conditions are making real for them - a steadily declining sexual marketability.

As I said this makes it too easy for guys just coming into their own with women and it kind of gives them a false sense of desirability. The ease of approach and the degree of success young guys have with older women rarely translates to women their own age since they have completely different priorities for the criteria a man needs to get her intimacy. This then leads guys to "prefering" older women because they're easier and the fear of rejection is marginalized, when what they need to do is learn to approach and close with all kinds of women, younger, older or their own age. All that's not to discourage a guy from hitting it with an older woman, just a warning not to let yourself become too wrapped up in the ease of it all.

My concern is that a guy who's consistently successful with older women conditions himself to believe he "prefers" older women and limits himself to that demographic. It's like overweight or unconfident men saying they prefer fat women. Given the real opportunity to bang a stripper or a fat girl I think their behavior would make liars of them. It's not that it's a preference, but rather it becomes a coping mechanism, a buffer, against rejection from the attractive women they do prefer. That "preference" becomes a rationale for not even attempting to approach women and develop the social skills and mindset necessary for a man to progress and mature into a positively masculine Man.

 

[Wyldfire]

A man should feel free to pursue whichever women he is HAPPY pursuing and should never feel like he should want to pursue women who don't make him happy simply because other men thinks he should pursue them. Confident men do not need anyone's permission to date whomever he chooses to date...even if that happens to be older women.

 

[Aztec]

A man should feel free to pursue whichever women he is HAPPY pursuing and should never feel like he should want to pursue women who don't make him happy simply because other men thinks he should pursue them. Confident men do not need anyone's permission to date whomever he chooses to date...even if that happens to be older women.

I agree with you, Wyldfire and pleasantly glad that you still come in and share your wisdom to this forum.

 

[WestCoaster]

Rollo T. wrote this:

****************

In essence, you supply them with a false affirmation that "they still got it",

****************************

Boy, ain't this the truth. Last year I started dating a gal (single mommy by the way), FIVE dates in she e-mails me at work and says, "I just thought I'd tell you I have a boyfriend." I find out that she was practically engaged.

Frustrated, I asked a friend of mine, "If she had a guy she was almost engaged to, dated seven years (that's too long, IMO), why did she give me her phone number when I first met her, and for God's sake, why did she go out with me so much?"

His reply: "She wants to know if she's still got it and is attractive to other men, besides the long-term boyfriend she's bored with."

I got played like a fiddle.

 

[Wyldfire]

A man seeking a long term relationship will not find appropriate advice from men who are only looking to have sex with as many women as possible. These two groups of men have virtually opposite goals and desires. Men who are only interested in sex and are not interested in long term relationships consistently pressure other men and attempt to shame them into "conforming" into their vision of what they think other men should want. Pressuring and belittling men who want more than a string of sex partners is a thinly veiled attempt to force men into "conforming". Isn't that the very type of influence this site is supposedly trying to help men resist? Strong men do not make their choices in life to please other men on a forum. They make their choices in life to please themselves.

 

[Wyldfire]

A 29 year old man who has found through HIS own experience that younger women do not satisfy HIS desires and needs should not be brow-beaten by fellow men into dating the kind of women OTHER men prefer to date. If that 29 year old man meets a 32 year old woman he is interested in and wants to date then there is NO reason why he should not date her. It is, afterall, HIS life and happiness at stake and NOT the lives and happiness of OTHER men.

 

[jophil28]

I guess that the final conclusion is this - Do NOt pursue an LTR with an older woman INSTEAD of finding and conquering age appropriate women.
All women are a challenge and younger women have more dating options so their social price is higher ( and your chances of rejection are also higher).
If the real purpose of the relationship with the 'oldie girlie' is used to shield you against the potential rejections from younger women, then you are in an LTR out of FEAR ,not affection. Bad motivation.
This point is missed by the Wylde-person. She prattles on about young men choosing women to make them "happy" when the motivation is probably fear masquerading as desire and attraction.

 

[grinder]

I have dated divorced women with children.
Single women are simpler. Divorced women with children are more complex.
Why choose the complex? It makes no sense.
From your reply you have had success with the later and not the former.

Now, I may be wrong, but each of us have our own personal experiences, and I can only speak for mine. And based on these, women in this country between the ages of 20-29, especially those within the 20-25 year old range, have been the most superficial, insensitive and cold-hearted people I have ever met.

I just have not seen this. Is it your location, places you find these women, or your approach?
From experience I do know I cannot use the same approach with this age group as with older women. I adapt to the situation and age.
If you really do want and LTR (I don't know why) then younger women ARE worth the effort to adapt your game.

 

[Wyldfire]

Men who prefer younger women are free to date younger women if they so choose. Men who do NOT prefer younger women are NOT obligated to date younger women just because some OTHER man tells him that is what he should want. Strong, secure, confident men date whomever they want to date regardless of the opinion of others...especially a pack of online bullies and flametards who are only trying to emasculate the original poster because I posted advice on his thread. Thankfully, I believe Frank is intelligent enough to see who is trying to help him with his question and who isn't.

 

[Wyldfire]

M29 and F32 is no biggie. Small age difference (small enough to have even gone to high school together), part of the same generation, likely to still share many of the same interests, likely to be at a similar level of physical fitness, more likely to be at similar professional points in life, and the woman is still fertile.

M29 and, say, F42? Forget it. Generation gap, woman's looks are fading, not to mention the guy's chances of having kids with her are very much ZERO should he want kids.

Go back and read his post. He said he had a connection with the 32 year old. Was it a typo...I don't know...but his post clearly says the woman he is interested in is 32.

 

[KarmaSutra]

That is generic, empty advice steeped in the same female-based emotional school of thought as "love conquers all" and "the one." Lousy advice, indeed.

Good call brother.

Chicks love to live in the fantasy that they'll ALWAYS have some guys' eye. Like a tv show past it's prime, women tend to go for the younger demographic. Rollo succinctly stated it:

And nothing gives them more affirmation than a younger, muscular guy to show off to their also aging girlfriends and their overweight ex-husbands while getting sexual gratification too. In essence, you supply them with a false affirmation that "they still got it", when in reality they're motivated by what their conditions are making real for them - a steadily declining sexual marketability.

Sexual marketability . . . Think about that for a moment. It's all about affirmation that they can do today what they may have been capable of 20 years ago when they were still tight and pink.

 

[Wyldfire]

Karma...let's dissect that quote of Rollo's, shall we?

And nothing gives them more affirmation than a younger, muscular guy to show off to their also aging girlfriends and their overweight ex-husbands while getting sexual gratification too. In essence, you supply them with a false affirmation that "they still got it", when in reality they're motivated by what their conditions are making real for them - a steadily declining sexual marketability.

Now let's turn it around:

And nothing gives older men affirmation than a much younger woman to show off to their also aging friends and their overweight ex-wives while getting sexual gratification too. In essence, you supply them with a false affirmation that "they still got it", when in reality they're motivated by what their conditions are making real for them - a steadily declining sexual marketability.

Now, the OP has clearly said he has dated much younger women and he finds them to be unsuitable and unpleasant. He is from another country where the culture is different...and his personal values are probably much different than the men on this thread (most of whom are here only to argue with me and not to try to offer advice to the OP).

Since when do strong, secure and confident men date who other people tell him to date? Read the guy's posts. He's not an idiot, immature or insecure. He knows that he doesn't want to be with someone who has the kind of traits you most often find in very young women. He's not saying he's going for women his age and a bit older because he can't get younger women. He's saying he's going for them because he has found that he likes them better. He should date who HE likes, NOT who men on here THINK he should like. There is way too much projection going on in this thread and instead of answering his question about ex-husbands and kids most people are telling him not to date who he wants to date. The guys here have got to stop doing this to each other. Brow-beating and pressuring each other is just a continuance of the pressuring your families and society has put on you guys to do what they thought you should. Don't pull that sheeit with each other...none of you have that right.

 

[Sinistar]

Now let's turn it around:

...and that's the fault you can not possibly see or understand (because you are a woman) - IT CAN'T BE TURNED AROUND. You want it to be turned around. You hope it can be turned around. But with each tick of the clock, you are realizing this will never happen. Fast forward ahead a 100yrs from now, even with mass feminized social programming in place, a younger HB is still going to hitch up with a older, wealthy, powerful guy. Why? Because it's in her basic programming to do so for the sake of her children. And guess what, they'll make great looking, healthy babies who will have a stable, secure home and both parents will have a much better chance of actually being happy while they're at it.

Now try reverse that. There isn't a single sane person on this board who believes a 30-something healthy, stable, attractive, independent guy is going to enter into a serious healthy LONG-TERM relationship with a 60yr old woman. That my friend is merely a statistical outlier - at best.

Back on topic.

As I said this makes it too easy for guys just coming into their own with women and it kind of gives them a false sense of desirability. The ease of approach and the degree of success young guys have with older women rarely translates to women their own age since they have completely different priorities for the criteria a man needs to get her intimacy. This then leads guys to "prefering" older women because they're easier and the fear of rejection is marginalized, when what they need to do is learn to approach and close with all kinds of women, younger, older or their own age. All that's not to discourage a guy from hitting it with an older woman, just a warning not to let yourself become too wrapped up in the ease of it all.

...I'm glad to see others here are calling this out too. All I saw in OP follow-up response was a HUGE rationalization / justification for older women because younger women are (...insert excuse X).

Frank2500, you have a choice - you can follow Wyldfire's advice in which case I wish you the best of luck.

Or, you can take a step back and look at everything. Maybe the real question here is why do you continually get rejected by younger women. Or maybe even more important, why does it bother you so much? And I'll throw in one more question, please answer honestly - can you tell us that you would actually prefer a relationship with an older woman if a younger HB (that you are attracted to) was attracted to you?

 

[Vulpine]

Since when do strong, secure and confident men date who other people tell him to date?

Since they come to this site and realize that they've been living as a woman, by women's rules, by women's advice. Since it was a bunch of men who restored the man's security and confidence again after women beat him down with shame for not doing as THEY wished.

I can't even keep up with debunking your crap Wyldfire, I'm glad to see there are others on board with this task. Your posts, if anyone deciphered them, ALWAYS slight the male posters and their advice to promote the value of YOUR wrong advice.

And Frank, although older women are easier to screw and leave for STR's, should seriously target younger women. Why? Yes, he's frustrated with them now, but in the long run he'll be HAPPIER. Long run/happIER versus short term/happy. A little hard work now will pay off later. Consider younger women an "investment in happiness" whereas older women are "happiness on credit". Older women (with kids/divorces) are easy, convenient, and abundant, but as with credit: buy now, pay later.

Frank, dating is frustrating, period. I understand your frustration with younger flakey barbie clones. We ALL share that frustration. The key is finding a chick you're attracted to and training her to be with you. You can't train a woman not to be old, not have her kids, and not to have gotten a divorce (old dog-new tricks). You CAN train a chick to stop being a flakey b!tch (once you've generated attraction).

Don't "go with your heart", use your brain instead. Emotion clouds judgement, and women LOVE to tell you "you're cold!" That's right, woman, I'm cold... and "calculating" is the second word of that expression.

Edit: I got hung up posting this, WestCoaster and Sinistar have BOTH said what I have, so let me just say right on guys, I agree, you are RIGHT.

 

[Mr.Positive]

It's important to remember that women are unique, not all young women are immature, not all older women are full of baggage and miserable. The advantage that age gives is, judging from the person's past, you can see how they've handled some of life's hardship. They either overcame them and became a stronger person, or became bitter and miserable.

I think, deep down, most everyone is looking to find the perfect person to have a loving successful LTR. What's ironic is that in order to have the highest chance of acquiring that, it seems the best option is to go out and have sex with as many women as possible. I think that's what most of this advise to Frank is coming from.

For example, I know a guy who's 34, always being told he's great looking, has a very successful job, and is open about saying he's looking for that special gal to love and settle down with. On the other end, take a guy like STR8UP...goes out and always has the time of his life juggling multiple women. Who has a better chance of a successful LTR? The guy I know is a virgin and has never had one girlfriend. A guy like STR8UP probably has multiple women trying to catch him into a LTR.

My point to Frank is, don't worry about age. Go out and have fun. Date multiple women and don't have any expectations. Your 29, live life to the fullest...and during this adventure called life, when you do meet a great gal, you'll know it.

 

[Frank2500]

Re:It has Nothing to Do With Lack of Confidence or Fear of Rejection

As I said this makes it too easy for guys just coming into their own with women and it kind of gives them a false sense of desirability. The ease of approach and the degree of success young guys have with older women rarely translates to women their own age since they have completely different priorities for the criteria a man needs to get her intimacy. This then leads guys to "prefering" older women because they're easier and the fear of rejection is marginalized, when what they need to do is learn to approach and close with all kinds of women, younger, older or their own age. All that's not to discourage a guy from hitting it with an older woman, just a warning not to let yourself become too wrapped up in the ease of it all.


To Rollo Tomassi and the other guys on here who keep misreading my post even though I try to be as articulate as possible: Confidence is not my problem and I'm not afraid of rejection. This has nothing to do with game. We all look for different things in mates. Those of you who desire women to have a series of one-night stands with and who want to sleep with as many of them as possible...more power to you. Not all men are looking for that. I have no problem with confidence and I have no fear talking to women within my age group. But you guys aren't listening to me. What I'm saying is: Why in the world would I have to feel the need to keep on pursuing these women if I don't feel a bond with them? Why do I have to keep on going after women when the potential to be treated the same way by them remains the same? I'm fared up and I've had enough, period. Please stop misinterpreting my post and don't use the lack of confidence claim on me to score cheap points with other posters on here. Give me a freakin break. I'd gladly settle with a lesser attractive woman whos is open-minded and cultured and has a good attitude than a shallow, empty vessel with a stinky attitude just because people think she's hot. Personality still counts to some of us. You guys just don't get it, do you??

 

[Wyldfire]

Men who have a tendency to "rescue" women are not going to stop "rescuing" if they only date younger women. Age has nothing to do with baggage. Just as many young women have been molested, abused and are messed up...and the younger those women are, the less likely they will have overcome the emotional baggage they carry with them. If a man is "rescuing" then he needs to learn how to STOP doing that...regardless of the age of the women he pursues.

While you are all busy attacking me, it's rather ironic that I am the only person posting who gave Frank advice on how to NOT "rescue". All any of you are doing is bashing me and telling him to date younger women. That advice is half-assed and ineffective...but you are too busy worried about attacking me to even bother trying to help Frank.

My first post advised Frank to pay attention to TRAITS of the women he meets. The only way to overcome the tendency of men to try to "rescue" women is to judge them on an individual basis...based entirely on who they are as a person, how they cope with things, their attitude, etc. I go to college with mostly young women...and a few older ones. Several of those very young women are dating or engaged to losers. One just yesterday was talking about her fiance...who she is marrying in July. He just got picked up for his THIRD DUI and is going to jail. She was saying how she hoped they wouldn't send him away until after their wedding. All of the older women suggested to her that perhaps it was not a good idea to marry an alcoholic (she said he was an alcoholic) going to jail for his third DUI. I suggested to her that she go to Al-Anon...because that is what will help her overcome her problems. This girl is typical of younger women...very foolish. This is a girl in college...very book smart, but clearly she is messed up emotionally. Now, if an alcoholic has been sober for a while and is active in AA...you won't find a more mature and emotionally healthy person...but an actively drinking alcoholic is a nightmare to deal with and not someone you should ever marry.

Bottom line...just telling Frank to only date much younger women is ignorant. Frank should forget about connections and look at a woman's traits and how she deals with adversity and how much they have in common. It doesn't matter if she is 20, 30 or 40. If he's physically attracted to her, she's got her head on straight, he's not trying to rescue her and he's happy then he can date whoever the heck he wants to date. That being said...most women don't overcome their issues from childhood and early adulthood until nearing 30 or even older. It's something you develop and learn over time, although some people (men and women) never learn or develop that at all. Truth be told...he IS more likely to find a more mature and emotionally healthy woman closer to his own age or older, because they are more likely to have worked out their issues.

 

[WestCoaster]

Actually Frank, you're not getting it. A lot of us have dated the single mommies. They are professionals at putting on a great front in the first few dates, acting like you're the knight in shining armour, acting like they're more mature than what you've been dating. Ah, you'll have to find out the hard way, don't say you weren't warned.

These women are experts at playing games. The immature young ones you've been dating? Those aren't games, that's immaturity. You're ready to get your world turned inside out and with baggage to boot. You'll be given compliments, sex, the world, then whammo, you'll be second, third, or fourth fiddle in no time. Other men will come along -- equal knights in shining armour -- they'll dump you on your a$$ and you'll wonder (like I have): "But I thought they were mature? I thought kids made them more mature? I thought they were beyond playing games?"

Have fun with this. You're not going to listen so you'll have to learn the hard way. The biggest game players on this planet are single mommies ... unfortunately, you have find out the hard way because you won't listen. Most single mommies I know, are juggling 2/3 or more men at a time. Welcome to the club Frank!

 

[Wyldfire]

To Rollo Tomassi and the other guys on here who keep misreading my post even though I try to be as articulate as possible: Confidence is not my problem and I'm not afraid of rejection. This has nothing to do with game. We all look for different things in mates. Those of you who desire women to have a series of one-night stands with and who want to sleep with as many of them as possible...more power to you. Not all men are looking for that. I have no problem with confidence and I have no fear talking to women within my age group. But you guys aren't listening to me. What I'm saying is: Why in the world would I have to feel the need to keep on pursuing these women if I don't feel a bond with them? Why do I have to keep on going after women when the potential to be treated the same way by them remains the same? I'm fared up and I've had enough, period. Please stop misinterpreting my post and don't use the lack of confidence claim on me to score cheap points with other posters on here. Give me a freakin break. I'd gladly settle with a lesser attractive woman whos is open-minded and cultured and has a good attitude than a shallow, empty vessel with a stinky attitude just because people think she's hot. Personality still counts to some of us. You guys just don't get it, do you??

[removed]
Date whoever you want to date. Just make sure you aren't attracted to any woman for the wrong reasons. A lot of men have a tendency to see vulnerability in a woman who has gone through bad times, and that is like a magnet to a lot of men. Make a list of all the traits you want in a woman and a list of the traits you don't want. Once you do that you will be able to keep a mental image of that list in your head. Whenever you meet a new woman, always refer to that list to help avoid getting sucked into the rescue trap. As long as you do that and judge each woman individually rather than en masse you are more likely to find someone who is right for you.

Good luck!

 

[WestCoaster]

So my question here is to any men who have dated divorced women with children in the past, or divorced women period. Do you think it is a good idea based on your experiences?

Sheesh, Frank asked the question, we answered it. He (and Wyld) didn't like our answers, so they fought back to try and fit their own philosophies into their agenda.

What Frank wanted to hear (and he heard it from Wyld) was this: "Yes, Frank, go for it! Kids and baggage don't matter. It's all how you FEEL at the moment. The candlelight dinner will override any problems you have down the road. Those blissful early date feelings mean EVERYTHING. She'll never be immature because she's had a kid!"

That's what he (and Wyld) wanted to hear; they didn't hear it so they got defensive.

* Men, don't take advice from women regarding relationships; especially one's with a shakey history of commitment.