Dating girl for 4 months - no sex yet

[logic1]

Chrisse Sakes............... Im getting ready to rescind my statements and go crawl into a hole. H*ly Sh*t

2 or 3 nights a week and you spend the night. Let me guess this is a big joke for ****s and giggles. Are you serious??

report on the what happens tonight

 

[bigmil]

I dont get it. 3 is the maximum but sometimes its just once a week. Why would that matter?

 

[bigmil]

I have been progressively spending more and more time with her. Initially I would spend max 1 night a week with her but now its normal that I see her mid-week and then we do something on the weekend.
That seems to me a normal frequency given we've dated 4 months. Logic1 what are you freaking about bro?

 

[NewMan]

The issue here - is she sucks your c0ck - let's you titty fvck her - but doesn't let you stick your d1ck inside her.

if that doesn't strike you as odd, what will?

are you truly Captn save a b1tch?

listen - your to much invested in this.

You need to cool things down if your going to keep seeing her.

 

[bigmil]

yeah It strikes me as odd -- hell the girl strikes me as odd. That's why I posted this because usually I can figure them out somewhat but this girl is a real conundrum.

Jesus this is driving me crazy. One thing pretty much everyone says is to spin more plates and back off a bit which is exaclty what I'm going to do.

Ill post after tonight. Sucess or crash at least somebody can learn something from this.

Im not taking the flowers.

 

[cordoncordon]

Good for you for not taking the flowers.

No matter what, you seriously need to look at the fact if you want to be with someone who basically, doesn't trust anyone, doesn't like anyone, not even her own parents for a time.

Is that someone that you really want to spend a long time with?

 

[st_99]

2. She had a falling out with her parents at the age of 20 and didn't speak to them for 4 years!
3. She believes that 95% of people are total crap (her words)
5. She acknowledges that people have perceived her as distant or cold at times.

Dude, RUN. Trust me in that you are in for a big waste of time. I'd say forget about being distant or what not. Just next her right away. This chick has waaay to much emotional baggage. :kick:

 

[WaterTiger]

*Abusive boyfriend....
*Thinks 95% of people are crap....
*Spent 4 years not talking to Mommy & Daddy....
*Cold and distant....
*Repeatedly naked in your bed, but no penertation....

What part of PSYCHO B!TCH are you missing?

She's playing the sexual "everything but" game like a 16 year old High School virgin. She's been in an abusive relationship, (And those will screw your head up for a long time) Basiclly, this woman is terrified of being hurt. She has all the walls up, guns loaded and swords drawn. She's just waiting for the "bad thing" to swoop out of the sky and land on her head. Anyone and every one (95%) are potential hurt makers.

Anything that "hurts" her, like Mom & Dad, gets cut out of her life. Dealing with this woman is like walking in a razor blade. As ling as you put your feet just right you'll be fine, but the slightest misstep...and you'll get cut. You'll be playing these little games with her, "proving" your love with her forever.

I'd suggest you next her.

 

[Latinoman]

You'll be playing these little games with her, "proving" your love with her forever.

That's what I also sense too.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

BIGMIL, in the time it took you to create this thread, read the responses and contemplate what to do about this little girl / whackjob, you could've met and closed 4 different women with infinitely better potential than this one.

A lot of people think that NEXTing a girl is some knee-jerk response from guys who don't have any other ideas of what to do, when in fact it should be a practiced, default response for the first indication that a woman is attempting to set the frame in her favor by manipulating a guy using her intimacy as a carrot to pull the cart. It's men without options that find NEXTing a girl in some way 'wrong', and to a man with only one plate spinning this is entirely counterintuitive, but it's important to remember that Rejection is better than Regret - even if you're the one doing the rejecting.

9 times out of 10 the NEXTed woman will attempt to reconnect with the guy who's got the sack enough to walk away from her anyway. Why is this? Because it shakes up the routine into which you slip into by playing in her frame. Uncertainty is exciting, particularly after you've set a pattern of behavior that she thinks is secure. Unpredictability is good. The guy who can walk away from a less than optimal situation is a man communicating that he has options and the confidence to be uncompromising (or at least less compromising) in what he's willing to accept. The secret is that pvssy is an easily had commodity and it's up to a woman to convince you that her's intimacy is in someway unique among all others. This is her agency with regards to men because all women know that men want sex. The hard truth, that she's well aware of, is that no amount of sex (or half-way sex in this case) is an equitable trade for a man's complaceny and his identity.

In fact, a woman want's you to walk away; it communicates that her intimacy has no control over you and this puts you in control and decisive (where she wants you to be), this increases her desire by planting a seed of doubt in her, proves you to be (at least in appearance) a man with other irons in the fire and confirms for her that your attentions are valuable to other (potential competition) women.

 

[bigmil]

damn you guys are dead on with the advice here.

I went over there last night -- no flowers, spent some time -- messed around. She is sick right now. I asked her to go to this work event with me tonight and her response was lackluster.

Here is the e-mail response she sent me today after I sent her an e-mail asking if she wanted to go:

I'd like to go but I'll probably get tired early. I don't want to make you leave early so if you are planning on staying out later than 10 or 11 or so, I'll pass. I'll call when I'm done with work...okay? Also, we can work something out a parking space for tomorrow if you need one.

Haha -- this is great! Just now she called me and I didn't next her but here is what I did:

I told her don't worry about going with me tonight since I'll be out late.
I told her not to worry about the parking spot because Im parking at my buddy's house (Im going tailgating tommorrow - very hard to park in that area)

Then I ended the call abruptly and said I was busy and Ill talk to her later. There was a long pause and I could tell she was a little shocked.

We'll see how she responds.

 

[Tazman]

I'd like to see how this turns out. Get your power back man, she's probably going to start throwing some tests at you, DO NOT stop showing her that you're the MAN, it will negate everything you're doing.

I'm pretty sure you're aware by now that all her excuses are cleverly designed to make it seem like she's very careful and has high standards, but in reality it's a slick power move on her part to keep you in check, and it's been working like a charm so far.........

Also, while I'm in a ranting mood, lol, I think more guys need to realize that "niceness" doesn't equate to sexual arousal in women. They are aroused by your percieved "value". That can take shape in many forms (looks, confidence, money, attitude, talents, humor, etc), but it's never how "nice" you can be.

Good luck!

 

[bigmil]

The takeaway worked wonders! I could tell she was shaken. This is what happened:

Friday night I ended up going out with a buddy to a bachelor party. We had a limo bus drive us all over the city and I ended up getting totally hammered as they had liqour and beer on the bus. I ended up leaving the party around 5 AM. I called my secondary girl for a booty call but she wasn't having it as she had to get up early on Sat. No big deal so I call Stephanie and she is super responsive and wants me to come over.

Here is the great part -- when I get to her house she keeps asking me why I was short with her on the phone,, why I didn't want to park at her house, why I got off the phone quickly with her,, etc. She looked visibly worried!

I stayed the night there and she basically just catered to me all night and in the morning sexually but still no penetration.

I told her that I can't have a girlfriend without sex. She said ok and said it would be next week.

She knows now that I'll walk away from the relationship and that seems to have increased her interest level immensely. I expect sex with her sometime next week or the girl is gone.

She called me the next day while I was tailgating and she was with one of her friends and she wanted me to meet them but I told her I already had plans and that Id call her later. Basically with these takeaway moves I got the power back. Still not complete though because the penetration has yet to happen.

I called her Sat night and she was talking about all these long term plans like halloween, Christmas etc. Seemed like she was excited to talk to me. Don Juan techniques really work. It think my problem before was that I was being way too AFC with this chick.

 

[Tazman]

 

[ElChoclo]

"Sometimes head" is not really adequate. I think she should give it every time, and a complete one at that, with full respect.

Also he should bring her off sparingly, if at all. And not take her to any expensive hotels unless he wants to go to one himself. It should be done in a very casual fashion, in unglamourous surroundings. Maybe your car. Just explain that since there isn't going to be full sex, all you need is the most basic foreplay and accoutrements.

 

[lordson]

yep, the abrupt "im busy" and ending the phone call

ALWAYS works

they always wonder, wtf? and start to question thier influence and power over us

seems like the 'im da MAN' attitude your using now is working

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

BIGMIL, you get points for the takeaway and puling it off successfully, but bear in mind that you did so OVERTLY rather than COVERTLY.

I told her that I can't have a girlfriend without sex. She said ok and said it would be next week.

You've just negotiated her desire here and your intent is made plain to her. You'd have done better to keep her in a more prolonged state of anxiety. This is going to sound like I'm sh!tting on your parade here, but read me out - you cashed your chips in too early. Yes, you're seeing success here and it seems like this amazing transformation and change of heart on her part, but don't let the novelty of this cloud your overall view. You can't just be a Man for a week and expect the frame to remain in your favor. She KNOWS what you're doing now, will expect this behavior in the future and will plan accordingly to reset the frame.

Why do I say this? Because she's fillibustered you by giving you a timetable for her intimacy. Genuine desire isn't something that can be negotiated (at least OVERTLY), desire is spontaneous and has to be prompted, never requested. She's responded this way because you've broken 2 rules of the takeaway: You've made your intentions plain and you've said more than was necessary.

Essentially she knows what your game is. Granted, she responded to it, but this is in the short term and she'll re-adjust her game to match yours now (in fact her first response was to readjust with the timetable). Remember this in the future, never explicate, always demonstrate. When you want a to prompt genuine desire you must do so COVERTLY. You did this admirably by cutting her off and being short with her. She intirnsically picked up on this attitude shift and was put into a state of anxiety (where she should be) from which she sought you to resolve it for her. This was a genuine prompt of desire. If she hadn't had a genuine desire for you (for whatever reason) your attitude wouldn't have been her concern. Later, you confirm her (perceived) internal suspicions that you're losing interest with her because of her lack of 100% intimacy and now you're operating from an ultimatum rather than prompted desire. This may seem like it's solved your problem and she may very well fukk your brains out in an effort to sustain the relationship, but thiis will be in the short term and she'll eventually resent having to succumb to blackmail in order to get her intimacy. This is exactly why I say in the Iron Rule of Tomassi #3, if you are being made to wait for sex, it's never worth the wait - negotiated sex is never 100% desire.

So how do you recover from this? Go back to cutting her off. Never mention a word of wanting to own her pvssy completely - she was well aware of this before you began the takeaway and now this is an ultimatum that's in the back of her head. You need to act rather than talk, never explicate always demonstrate. Make her come to you, at this stage that's pretty much a given, but you need to keep her in a perpetual state of subtle anxiety. You had this earlier in the week, but I'm afraid your loose tounge killed this in the end. You have to get this back. When you become the antidote for her anxiety you'll prompt real desire. Again, make yourself scarce and she'll come to you, you'll increase your value as a commodity in this way. Don't blow her off (assuming you even want to engage in all of this with her), but do not seek her out - this was your first mistake.

 

[Vulpine]

I had a moment of clairvoyance after I left work the day I posted before. I was trying to figure out WTF this chick's problem was and all I could come up with was "If you're not fuxing her, your her girlfriend." Then it hit me...

Let's re-examine the facts:

Spat with parents, didn't talk for 4 years.
95% of people (implied "men") are crap.
28 year old professional
Been with 3 people (again, the context is "men").

Are you getting it? I heard this type of thing was on the rise: she's a lesbian (mildly 'bi') that keeps a token bf around because the lesbian image just isn't good for her professional image.

She is whole-heartedly commited to another woman, who just happens to have a token bf herself.

I may be off a little with the exact details, but I think the lesbian/professional angle is escaping everyone here. Think about it seriously. No penetration? Hmm... She'd be cheating on her GIRLFRIEND if she let you fux her. She needs the week to talk it out/clear it with her GIRLFRIEND.

MOST LIKELY: she is putting you off because she has no intention of letting you give her the beef injection because she was violently raped before. She gives head because SHE is in control that way. If you were to put her on her back and penetrate her, she doesn't have control and that is too traumatic, she'd feel like she's getting raped again.

She's broken and needs fixing. Noone can fix her but her. Tell her to seek counselling and leave her. Don't try to stick around while she fixes herself because it will be a nightmare, plus she'll be a different person when she finishes therapy and will leave you anyway.

I dare you to ask her if she has been raped before... I dare you.

She was "with" 3 men BEFORE she was raped.

 

[NewMan]

I think your counting your chickens before htey've hatched.

You still have not banged her - she pretty much put you off, like she always has (next week) - and we will see what happens when next week comes.

I think you made a mistake by going over her house - you should havew put her on ice for a while, let it sink in. When you lay down he law, then bend imeediately when she tells you she'll bang you 'next week' - what have you gaiend really? another stall from her - and no pvssy for you.

what's more, is all of this really worth it? Are you really going to enjoy the sex? after all it's forced penetration. It's not something she's giving up willingly - it's something you've had to ******dly hassle with. PErsonally, I'd rather fvck a HB6 - that wants to fvck, and fvcks me with vigor - than a HB8 that's doing it because she has to.

One mroe thing.

You've now gotten her to do something through the use of the ultimatum *SHOULD IT HAPPEN* expect fallout. She will not forget this. She will use this to her advantage in the future - and likely you will see some passive agressiveness from her soon.

 

[bigmil]

good points -- I'm not there yet. Last night she was texting me and im'ed me at work. I asked her to come over Wednesday and help me move to my new house. She said ok and we're going to sleep in the house on an air mattress.
I figure who cares if I dont hit it at least Ill put her butt to work.

I expect something from her Wednesday night at my new place. If not then I will be pissed -- mad because of the effort Ive put in so far.

Ideally the sex shouldn't have to be the result of an ulitmatum you're right but I think there's true desire there. I think she has something holding her back.

At his point I beleive it's one of 2 things now:

1. A hardcore rejection that haunts her from the past.
2. She's been raped.

I will keep you guys updated on what happens next. If it doesn't happen Wednesday I will likely just flip out on her as Im starting to get really upset at this girl. I've never had to "negotiate" fvcking before and this is ridiculus bull****.

Until Wednesday....