Dating girl for 4 months - no sex yet

[Latinoman]

She is not using sex to get her way or to manipulate.

She is one of those women who feel as long as a penis was not put in her ***** she did not have sex and can feel better in church the next morning, but anything else goes. Once this type of women feels she has a strong commitment from a man then the sex is justified and she still feels good in church.

In my experience the women who think like this are good LTR material.

The woman that apply some stupid rationallity is the one that would eventually say..."Well, technically I was not cheating. After all, he didn't *** inside me". Or "I didn't have sex with my co-worker. I only suck he diack...but technically that's no sex".

I hate the ******** or "technically speaking" type of woman. They are worst than lawyers and "technically" they never lie. Because they are used to technicallities.


My experience is that the LTR material women (within the context of this topic as we all know there LOT of other things to consider) are those that would do whatever she wants with her man...but the only difference is that she is

1- VERY SELECTIVE (with the man she picks -and we know there not a lot of great men out there)
2- Has HIGH STANDARDS
3- And keep in check with her values

Note: 1 and 2 = self-respect

Now...would I advice her to dump her? Personally, I believe it depends on what he truly wants.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Iron Rule of Tomassi #3
Any woman who makes you wait for sex, or by her actions implies she is making you wait for sex, the sex is NEVER worth the wait

When women make you wait for sex you are not their highest priority. There are other issues that you're not aware of that are giving her reservations. This could be another guy she's hoping will work out or she's sexually fearful due to some other reason. Whatever the reason, when women make a man wait for sex it is ALWAYS an attempt to set the frame in her favor. Sexuality is spontaneous chemical reaction between two parties, not a process of negotiation of a friendship. It's sex first, then relationship, not the other way around. A woman who wants to fvck you will fly across the country, crawl under barbwire, climb in through your second story bedroom window, fvck the sh!t out of you and wait patiently inside your closet when your girlfriend comes home early from work - women who want to fvck will find a way to fvck.

I agree with the takeaway methodology in principle, but I'm not a big fan of it overcoming LMR in sexual situations. Aside from the 'date rape' vaugeries, I think finding a woman who is unquestionably ready to go is time better spent than trying to solve her head puzzles. I'm of the opinion that If a girl is that into you she'll fvck regardless of ASD or having her friends in the room videotaping it for the internet. All women are sluts to some degree, you just have to be the right guy to bring it out in them, and this should happen before you go back to her place or the hotel room. If you have to plead your case on the bed, you need to go back to square one and start fresh.

By doing 'everything but' she's attempting to set the frame for a future LTR. It's a bait & switch and if you keep playing her game in her frame she'll not only lose respect for you, but you'll be playing catch up to set the frame back in your own favor. Do NOT allow her to sexually blackmail you in this manner, walk away from it and then judge her behaviors NOT her words. Demonstrate, never explicate. There's something else in play here and the only way to force her hand is to initiate a take-away. From there you should determine if she's even worth the obvious effort she's demanding for her complete sexuality. Remember YOU are the PRIZE and this girl should be just one of many plates you're spinning anyway.

 

[Latinoman]

By the way...I agree with some of you.

At least she is giving him sex. She is sucking him...she is manually making him c*m. And she is t*tty phucking him.

It could be worst.

I think he should truly TALK with HER. See what's up. I would avoid the "when are we going to have sex?" question, because it sounds like he is begging.

But he needs to talk with her.

If she was abused before...then, he should consider that. Although, if she was abused...I personally admire that she is willing to do other things with him WHILE getting back into a comfort level.

She only had 3 partners in her life. Quite honestly, I think that is GREAT! Now that I think about it.

So...I probably won't Next her. Very few HOT babes in their PRIMES (28) with such little amount of men (3). And that is good sucking and doing other things to satisfy her man...while waiting a little for the penetration part.

But I will talk with her.

And do you know what guys? Maybe you are right...maybe she is a LTR type woman! (I'm very open minded as to allow myself to believe this).

But the point is...I personally wouldn't wait. That's ME.

 

[Latinoman]

By doing 'everything but' she's attempting to set the frame for a future LTR. It's a bait & switch and if you keep playing her game in her frame she'll not only lose respect for you, but you'll be playing catch up to set the frame back in your own favor. Do NOT allow her to sexually blackmail you in this manner, walk away from it and then judge her behaviors NOT her words. Demonstrate, never explicate. There's something else in play here and the only way to force her hand is to initiate a take-away. From there you should determine if she's even worth the obvious effort she's demanding for her complete sexuality.

That's how I personally view it.

But, I'm giving some of the other guys the benefit of the doubt. That's why, I believe, he should talk with her and see what she has to say.

 

[wayword]

It also comes down to what he wants. And as importantly...to communication.

Well, problem is nobody wants to openly communicate their own problems, weaknesses and flaws. In fact, the more you need to know something for your benefit at her disadvantage, the less likely she is to tell you.

In other words, the secrets she keeps from you are what you need to know MOST (dealbreakers)! Like she has an STD (although I'm guessing that's not the prob in this case), is infertile or has cancer, has cheated on you, has a drug habit, is $50k in debt, etc etc.

So, don't expect any unprovoked confessions. Only way most girls will volunteer such info is when they HAVE to just to minimize damage per game theory.

THEREFORE, you have to simply learn to become VERY GOOD at reading their red flags & signs. You have to learn the ART of communication about touchy topics - often utilizing indirect inferencing. It's basically like proving or getting a suspect to admit he's guilty in court. Often takes anything BUT open communication and a simple direct question of if he is or not.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

The 'everything but' argument doesn't fly with me. I can get a pro to jack me off or blow me, or even fukk me with her legs behind her neck - it doesn't make her my girlfirend or even a plate I'm spinning. It's not the act that is of significance, but rather the motivation and desire behind it. By not fukking the guy she's setting a boundary that he can't get to. There's an area she's not allowing him to go to and this is a deficit in complete desire.

 

[Latinoman]

I will come back tomorrow with more comments. Have a meeting now!

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

I believe, he should talk with her and see what she has to say.

NO. No talking, communicate by doing. Demonstrate, not explicate. He's not going to negotiate his way into her total desire.

 

[S1NN3R]

But many men (myself included) feel satisfaction by knowing that we have the ability to satisfy our partner.

True, I guess I read the post to fast, I thought he said that he was eating her as well, but a reread shows he didn't say that, and that head was only occasional. That changes things a little.

But a woman that is using sex as a weapon to manipulate the behavior of her man SHOULD be disqualied as LTR material.

Abso-frickin-lutely. But, there isn't anything that he said to realy indicate that manipulation is more likely than any of the other possibilities. To me (after reading his post again to make sure I had a full understanding), it seems as though she would really like to have sex with him and she wants to please him, but she just has some sort of hang up about vaginal penetration itself, but not sexual acts in general.

 

[logic1]

I was basing my opinion off the info that was provided and off my passed experiences

3 partners, all long term
Career oriented
28 years old

Bigmil could provide more details about her, which might help. How much time do they spend together?

What does he think she is after by withholding sex? She has been at it for 4 months. If she has a motive, I agree with Rollo it could be about gaining some control in the relationship.

 

[decades]

life could be a hell of a lot worse my bruttha! :cheer:

but I am in the camp that says sometin is wrong with the picture. I agree see what happens when you pull back and hint that she isn't the only game in town. You might get her to finally give you 100%.

regards

 

[Latinoman]

I was basing my opinion off the info that was provided and off my passed experiences

3 partners, all long term
Career oriented
28 years old

That's why I reconsidered a little and felt it was worth investigate (communicate as Rollo stated) a little more. But, I wouldn't waste too much time. In fact, I would have NEVER gone FOUR MONTHS in this predicament.

 

[logic1]

Latinoman

I know you dont agree but my opinion is she is being SELECTIVE, HAVING HIGH STANDARDS, and keeping VALUES in check in a womans way of thinking.

I feel she is making sure Bigmil is the guy for her. She knows there must be a sexual side of the dating in order to keep him around. She is doing this to learn as much about him as she can while still having her values in place ( in her mind). She still considers herself a virgin with him. She needs as much time a possible to be selective in her choice. She knows most people take time to reveal their true character. I think she is buying as much time as she can with Bigmill to see what he is made of. If shes not for him she wont feel like a slut.

Hope this makes sense. Seems like warped thinking but some women think like this.

She also has a very high interest level in Bigmil. Even with this rationallity, she would consider kissing another man cheating.

 

[Vulpine]

There is all sorts of smoke and mirrors here. Classic "words versus actions".

ISome things Ive considered:
She's had a possible traumatic exprience.
She's not attracted to me.
She is ****ing someone else (seriously doubt)
She is playing a game.
This is some sort of test.
Maybe she has some sort of STD that she's embarrassed about. (she said she doesn't)

Put a checkmark in the "NEXT" column for me, thanks.

Here is the deal: It could be all of the above, or none of the above. Who cares? It's "forest through the trees".

The fact of the matter is this:

Im going fvcking crazy with this chick.

Oh yeah? So, are you happy with her then?

Simple as a yes or no.

Consequently, the next conversation with her would be "WTF?" or "Goodbye."

Yes, yes, I am sympathetic to the time/emotional investment with her. However, these women tend to be like a cancer. If left without cutting it out of your life, it tends to grow until it consumes you and you die. It may not even hurt, you may not even notice it, but it's still there slowly killing you.

Don't comprimise your future by wasting the present: "Get it on, or get gone".

 

[Vulpine]

A front page article a little while back gives me this idea though:

BM: "Do you love me?"
HB: "Of course I do."
BM: "Prove it."

That's a wicked mind-job though.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

LOGIC1 and you got all this from the limited description he gave in his initial post? Man I wish I was psychic too.

 

[logic1]

Rollo

With all due respect I did. Read it closely.

One thing that really sticks out is how he told her how he broke up with his previous girlfreinds. She is thinking he is going to burn her the same way.

A "normal" womam feels more emotionally attached to a male after they have intimate sex. She is not going to take this chance just yet. Bigmil might dump her the way he told her he did his other girlfreinds.

Everyone says "next" her. Why?? If he is spinning more plates keep this one going too. Nothing to lose is there? Just watch your feelings toward her.

I feel some people make the mistake on this board thinking all women are ignorant and cant think and rationalise.

 

[Centaurion]

I didn't read the whole thread, but I would venture as far as saying that this chick probably has some daddy issues that she needs to come to grips with. More girls than you can ever imgaine have been 'touched' (I don't want to say molested as it is such a strong word) by some male relatives. This can and probably will scar her.

Yet again, I have to agree with teh Tittymeister in post #8.

Edit. And ooh, this reminds me of my gf from high school. She would blow me and swallow, let me titty fvck her and had a huge anal fetish, BUT would not even consider vaginal sex because she wanted to 'save' herself. Well noone said that chicks were logical.

 

[Latinoman]

Latinoman

I know you dont agree but my opinion is she is being SELECTIVE, HAVING HIGH STANDARDS, and keeping VALUES in check in a womans way of thinking.

I feel she is making sure Bigmil is the guy for her. She knows there must be a sexual side of the dating in order to keep him around. She is doing this to learn as much about him as she can while still having her values in place ( in her mind). She still considers herself a virgin with him. She needs as much time a possible to be selective in her choice. She knows most people take time to reveal their true character. I think she is buying as much time as she can with Bigmill to see what he is made of. If shes not for him she wont feel like a slut.

Hope this makes sense. Seems like warped thinking but some women think like this.

She also has a very high interest level in Bigmil. Even with this rationallity, she would consider kissing another man cheating.

IF in reallity she is doing this based on what you wrote...then I agree with you.

But, the reason I'm suggesting him to talk to her (or communicate with her as Rollo said), is because I'm not sure that what you wrote is her reasoning. There is not enough information to make me believe that's her logic. That's why I responded the way I did.

Then after reading your posts, I thought...hmmmm...that could be possible too, which mean that I don't have enough information, so, I better suggest he talks with her to collect more data. Because if what you are telling is true, then I would hate to advice for him to dump her.

 

[Latinoman]

Everyone says "next" her. Why?? If he is spinning more plates keep this one going too. Nothing to lose is there? Just watch your feelings toward her.

I feel some people make the mistake on this board thinking all women are ignorant and cant think and rationalise.

That's a good point.