Dating girl for 4 months - no sex yet

[SoCalMike]

Your help is GREATLY appreciated as Im going fvcking crazy with this chick.

Dude you already fvcked up pretty bad by ASKING for the sex. Never EVER ask for sex. It makes you look desperate. If you had never asked that question I'm 99% sure you'd be banging her already.

I'm not criticizing you, I've made the same mistake.

Whenever you get with any girl, shy or not: just make out, and SLOWLY progress things over a few dates.

For example with a really shy/good girl type: on the first or second date, just kiss - very sensual and passionate but not forceful. The 3rd kiss a little more and explore her neck, upper chest, on the 4th start feeling her tits a little, on the 5th or 6th suck on them, on the 7th or 8th start rubbing between her legs, etc. etc.

By the 10th date or so you lick her pvssy good and I garuntee she'll be dying to bang the living daylights out of you. But you still NEVER ask for it. EVER.

If at any point she says "I want you but I'm not sure" or something like that just say "it's ok, we'll know when the time is right" or whatever. Show you want it with your kissing/making out but NEVER talk about wanting it.

The basic idea here is this: YOU ENTICE HER AND GENTLY UP THE ANTE. You do not push... you guide slooowly at a pace she's comfortable with. And by acting this way she will often push you to do more.

I did exactly this technique with a very conservative woman who was hot and constantly hit on by guys. She's in her 30's and had only been with 3 men (one her ex-husband). She had rejected men before for only having a single tattoo and I'm covered like a circus freak. I'm also an inch shorter than she is. She made the other 3 guys wait 6 months and they were all better looking/taller than me and more her type. I got it in 5 weeks.

You get the drift. There is no exact timeline or number of dates for this technique but it will cut the time to getting her in bed WAY down - at least 50%.

Even in your case where you already fvcked up you could still use it and it would probably be effective.

 

[bigmil]

SoCalMike I think you are right on. I know Ive FVCKed up by asking for it but I felt like I had to say something. Unfortunately I had a big talk with her last night about it. She even told me that by talking about it it made things worse. I have progressively become closer to this girl over time and become more and more sexual with her. I allowed myself to get pissed off about it as I felt the girl was playing me.

I told her it seemed like she always has an excuse. She says they're not excuses -- she was sick the weekend in Chicago (although not too sick to walk 20 blocks down Michigan Avenue to go shopping), and now she's got spotty bleeding from her depo-Provera injection and she doesn't feel comfortable.

I went so far as to let her know that sex is something that I require in a relationship and that I need it. I asked her if she wanted to be in a relationship with me and she said yes. She says she understands that Im frustrated and that it'll happen soon. She is very reluctant to set a date. I told her that I don't feel like she accepts me fully until we have sex.
I know these are AFC moves but they seemed natural things to discuss. I wanted to be honest. It's hard to have a gf naked in bed making out with you and you can't have sex. It's driving me nuts. I feel like I've been more than patient with this chick.

Yeah its easy to say just dump her. I've thought about that but Im invested. At this point walking away is quiting, plus Im emotionally attached as well.

So my new plan of attack is
1)NEVER ask her for sex again
2)If I don't get it by next week, I will not consider her my girlfriend anymore.

It's also easy to say that the man is the one that dictates when to have sex but that's not the case with older, self-assured, independent women. It's just not. You aren't dictating jack with a successful carrer woman. She's not going to boss you around but she won't be bossed around either.

One of my friends brought up the STD thing too. That theory would make all her actions make sense. Even though she told me she didn't have anything I'm not really beleiving it right now -- it could be the case for all I know.

I'm fluctuating between anger and feeling rejected. Not sure what I can do now. I have to keep her around until Nov 3rd at least to attend a formal event with me that I already paid for.

THIS bIOTCH SUCKS!!

 

[RedPill]

(Sorry in advance bigmil, but you need this. It's for your own good.)

Unfortunately I had a big talk with her last night about it.

I like how you say "unfortunately" as if this situation is beyond your control, as if you didn't make a conscious choice here.

She even told me that by talking about it it made things worse.

No kidding!

and now she's got spotty bleeding from her depo-Provera injection and she doesn't feel comfortable.

Gross dude, I didn't need to know that.

She is very reluctant to set a date.

Suggest to her that the two of you have awkward, zero-passion intercourse on Oct 28, 2006 at 8:19 PM in a TBA location for the duration of 4 minutes, or until you get off, whichever's first.

I know these are AFC moves but they seemed natural things to discuss.

This is an admission that you don't give two sh1ts about evolving beyond the AFC stage in your life. You aren't gonna win any empathy points around here by saying this.

Yeah its easy to say just dump her. I've thought about that but Im invested. At this point walking away is quiting, plus Im emotionally attached as well.

What exactly is the investment? How much time or money are you gonna lose by getting rid of this broad? Yes, walking away is quitting. It's the best way to destroy that irrational emotional attachment.

So my new plan of attack is
1)NEVER ask her for sex again
2)If I don't get it by next week, I will not consider her my girlfriend anymore.

I'm pretty busy and forget a lot of stuff these days, please refresh my memory...

Isn't this the same as the old plan of attack?

It's also easy to say that the man is the one that dictates when to have sex but that's not the case with older, self-assured, independent women. It's just not. You aren't dictating jack with a successful carrer woman. She's not going to boss you around but she won't be bossed around either.

Younger insecure chicks, on the other hand, schedule their intimacy a week in advance and get wet on command! You just can't get the older career ones to negotiate attraction like you can those sorority girls.

One of my friends brought up the STD thing too. That theory would make all her actions make sense. Even though she told me she didn't have anything I'm not really beleiving it right now -- it could be the case for all I know.

So you think it's certainly possible that she's dirty... and you still want to get with her? Am I missing something here?

I'm fluctuating between anger and feeling rejected. Not sure what I can do now.

You can finally listen to what all of us have been saying since this thread started. Unfortunately, you won't.

I have to keep her around until Nov 3rd at least to attend a formal event with me that I already paid for.

I bet, in all seriousness, you could find another date sometime in the next 15 days. Chicks love formal events.

THIS bIOTCH SUCKS!!

I know man, I know. It'll be alright. Let's get some beer in you and go find some new chick for the formal. Hopefully this one puts out and/or doesn't have hepatitus.

 

[JustDoItAlways]

Set a deadline

There are only two possibilities here:

1) She is gaming you - she has a completely irrational fear of penetration and she has not told you yet.

2) She is gaming you - she is one of those females that runs her life by running "social experiments" on everyone. She is seeing how long she can make you wait before you move on. It might sound a little out there, but there really are women out there that are like this. Sometimes when the game is over, she becomes a somewhat normal girlfriend.

Set a deadline like you have. Nov. 3 is too far out, next week is better. Cancel your tickets for the event now and keep the cash - do not tell her.

If she does unexpectedly come through, you will have to set another deadline and go through the whole thing all over again for the next time.

If she unexpectedly comes through, I do not expect you and her to ever have a satisfying sex life. She will game you forever.

 

[bigmil]

I needed to hear all that. I gotta evolve. This is bull****.

 

[Latinoman]

I read this stuff...and I feel...kind of like my oxygen was taken away. I cannot even phantom myself in this guys shoes.

I know he is emotionally invested, because good women with careers and young (but mature) and without a long sexual history are very scarce. But I will be honest with you...this woman has some serious issues.

Ask yourself this question...after she gives you sex. How long more would you have to wait for her to give it to you again? And let's assume she start giving it to you relatively frequently...what is to say that once you two are married that as soon as she experience some change in her life that you are not going to be punished with this sex issue? A change such as being overlooked for a promotion or her favorite T.V. show was cancelled or she has to cook breakfast for the kids.

Do you understand that things RARELY gets better (love tends to be the thing that usually gets better)? That women typically try to show their best face first in order to lure a good man into marrying them...and then they switch back (bait and switch)?

There more issues in here that you must consider. You two have been engaging in INTIMACY for 4 months...but she is denying you of the actual penetration. Something is SERIOUSLY wrong with this woman.

What's wrong? That's actually HER problem...not yours.

You have been more than understanding. It is time for her to deal with this pathetic issue. She sucks cuck and do the ti-t phucking...but deny you of penetration? Sick, sick, sick.

Do NOT set a date for her. Set a date for YOURSELF. Say to yourself "if I don't get sex by ____, I will start seeking sex somewhere else". Note that I didn't say "dump her". Don't dump her yet...I mean, she is giving you blow jobs and some level of companionship. But do NOT invest more emotionally with her.

Men...find somebody else. This woman has some SERIOUS issues. And she is not even seeking help.

By the way...when did she started giving you oral sex or showing naked to you? Because as soon as she did that...it should have been a matter of days (heck MINUTES) before she could give you real sex. Well, give EACH OTHER real sex.

 

[Latinoman]

Once again...beware. She can give you some sex. And the go back to her own ways...maybe not soon...maybe not in a year...maybe not after you two are married.

I think Sex will be her weapon in the future too. She knows she can control you with it (not saying that's what she is doing now).

 

[Tazman]

She says she understands that Im frustrated and that it'll happen soon.

Please, for the love of God, stop talking to her about this. Is it not evident that she KNOWS what you want, and that she is in absolute control of it and you AREN'T getting it? You've got to be crazy to think that there's some legitimate reason for her to keep telling you "soon" without any logical explanation... I could even understand if she said she wanted to wait until marriage or something, but that's not even the case.

Quote:
I'm fluctuating between anger and feeling rejected. Not sure what I can do now.

You can finally listen to what all of us have been saying since this thread started. Unfortunately, you won't.

 

[bigneil]

I need some advice on this one. I've been seeing this HB8 for 4 months plus now. We were introduced through a friend's wife. My problem is that she won't have sex.

This happened to me with a girl at work and the truth is, you're not really dating her if there has never been sex. Even if you are kissing, after a certain amount of time (60 days tops) the relationship potential expires and you are "just friends" forever. She likely has got some ex that she is manipulating by telling him she is seeing you, all the while manipulating you. The only chance is to get another hotter girl and have her find out on her own, but by then you wouldn't want her.

 

[Centaurion]

Everytime I read sh!t like this God kills a kitten.

I read this thread from the start and it makes me cringe how pathetic you look. You are actually BEGGING her to have sex with you! What the hell man!? Is her ***** golden? Is it something that you can't get from any other woman?

Do you have any idea how pathetic that is?

 

[whistler]

Wow. How depressing.

Bottom line:

Your effort > What she's worth

Surely, the only reason you're still with her is because of the promise of the pvssy.

From a clear vantage point, this relationship is dead in the water. Even if a STD is the reason for withholding full sex, the power structre is all shot to heck.

You can do yourself a favor and force her hand by seriously pursuing other women.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

BIGMIL, my gut says EJECT, because she's got herpes. Every behavior she's displayed is classic for a person with herpes. You need to do this and then you need to get tested.

OK that said, yes, you are acting like a full-on chump with this girl and she is firmly setting the frame to which you are playing exactly as she wants. She has fillibustered you for going on 5 months now. In fact, go back to your initial post on page one and just re-read your own progression with this little girl (she's not an adult to be sure). Review what's transpired since October 3rd. Be pragmatic and critical of both your own and her behaviors in just 21 days.

You mentioned you felt bad about losing on your investment with her, now follow this to it's logical conclusion. If this little girl was a stock I had invested in I would've dumped it based on performance long ago. How long are you willing to allow your investment to depreciate?

More importantly, ask yourself a few of questions here: even if she does relent and fukks you for real - and that's what it will be, relenting, not genuine desire, you're far beyond that now - will it honestly be what you expected? Will it be the best piece of ass you've ever been in? Will it compare to the times you've been with a woman who was so chemically attracted to you she couldn't wait to bang you? Will you be OK saddled to a woman in the long term who's desire has always been less than 100%? WIll you wonder if she'd be 100% with someone else under the right conditions?

Now ask yourself this, ideally, what would you like from this girl? What would make everything perfect? Is she actually capable of being this? Or is it easier to accommodate her, identify with her and change this idealization to better fit her frame? Is that pvssy worth all of that?

You're already done with this little child, you just haven't realized it yet. You've been negotiating desire with her for so long now and you've fishtailed on every move you've made that had any teeth in it, that she's got you firmly in her frame. And how do I know this?

The takeaway worked wonders! I could tell she was shaken. This is what happened:

Here is the great part -- when I get to her house she keeps asking me why I was short with her on the phone,, why I didn't want to park at her house, why I got off the phone quickly with her,, etc. She looked visibly worried!

I stayed the night there and she basically just catered to me all night and in the morning sexually but still no penetration.

I told her that I can't have a girlfriend without sex. She said ok and said it would be next week.

She knows now that I'll walk away from the relationship and that seems to have increased her interest level immensely. I expect sex with her sometime next week or the girl is gone.

She called me the next day while I was tailgating and she was with one of her friends and she wanted me to meet them but I told her I already had plans and that Id call her later. Basically with these takeaway moves I got the power back. Still not complete though because the penetration has yet to happen.

This was on October 8th, what has changed since then? You're a paper tiger BIGMIL, a toothless cat, and this little girl KNOWS it now. You failed an absolutely huge sh!t test and she's got you in her frame now.

 

[SoCalMike]

rollo is dead on.

i went through this exact situation about 6 years ago when i was still heavily AFC. 6 months of waiting, and ASKING for sex, and when i finally got it, it was TERRIBLE. the whole experience felt "forced", and indeed it was.

it's nothing to be ashamed of, you're learning bigmil. chalk this one up to experience. it's not easy to leave after all the investment both time, emotional, etc. and pride can prevent you from leaving too - you feel you have "failed" by not getting the pVssy after all the effort, but you need to reject those thoughts since they are BS.

fact is she doesn't want you, or has herpes, or she's just a manipulative b*tch with mental issues. but bail now and cut your losses. start dating other women.

 

[Sinistar]

I know I'm in the minority thinking she's got wacked psycho problems. But the exact problem/disease (venereal or mental) is now beyond relevant. What is relevant is that she is not capable of functioning in a healthy relationship. And Bigmil keeps going for the carrot that seems to dangle endlessly in front of him.

Using Rollo's stock analogy, some people just have to follow a stock down to 0, as if they have to crash with it. Like they just have to know at all costs.

Here's the sucky part, I have a feeling (given her explained behavior) that Bigmil will never really know the answer to this mind fvcking conundrum. Either he'll get smart and walkaway w/o knowing or she'll crank up the drama and tension another level and push him away due to stress or some other crap.

Disease or not, this is a mind fvck

 

[Sinistar]

Judging from his new attempt (http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=111528) bigmil/peateargriff1n11 got his answer. I'd lock this one too.

 

[wayword]

why couldn't he have just said this in THIS thread? then everyone who guessed that she had an STD would have been proven correct

Guess he felt shameful for both himself and her. I always knew he kept dodging this possibility, like he was in denial. I kept asking him if she would let him go down on her, but he would never answer...

Guess we know why now. Score another one for DJ.

Problem is, this bish obviously didn't do her homework and doesn't realize that you don't have to penetrate to infect someone with herpes! It is spread from any skin-to-skin contact with areas where the virus has surfaced - typically during outbreaks, but also sometimes via asymptomatic shedding. I guess she was trying to avoid contact with him down there, but sometimes with him continually pushing for it, she gave in and grinded on his kawk. Careful what you wish for dude - and you better get blood-tested 3 months from now!

 

[Latinoman]

Guess he felt shameful for both himself and her. I always knew he kept dodging this possibility, like he was in denial. I kept asking him if she would let him go down on her, but he would never answer...

Guess we know why now. Score another one for DJ.

Problem is, this bish obviously didn't do her homework and doesn't realize that you don't have to penetrate to infect someone with herpes! It is spread from any skin-to-skin contact with areas where the virus has surfaced - typically during outbreaks, but also sometimes via asymptomatic shedding. I guess she was trying to avoid contact with him down there, but sometimes with him continually pushing for it, she gave in and grinded on his kawk. Careful what you wish for dude - and you better get blood-tested 3 months from now!

I agree.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

This is exactly why I'm not responding to these overdramatic threads started by 1st post newbies. We're getting a LOT of these lately. I jumped in on this one because I thought I could help. Fukken troll.

Thread closed.