Boot Camp for The Mature Man

Ever onward

Master Don Juan
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That's true iveyleeger allan is the only person who sticks with.

But my field reports won't be as exciting as his are, at least not for awhile.

I'll be doing the hellos and the eye contact stuff. Which is why I can relate to the guys in the main forum who will be going through the same things.

I'll think about it.
 

allan976

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"It's been too long since you've done a grocery store FR!"

---You mean, it's been too long since I've posted a SUCCESSFUL grocery store FR! In fact, I think my post on week 7, day 15 has to rate as a top candidate for winner of the 'crash-and-burn cold approach of the week' award!

But seriously, E O, instead of starting from scratch, I recommend you jump straight into the action with the short convo's either with strangers in general or with dateable girls in particular. Smiling and saying 'hi' doesn't sound like something that would be very challenging for you since you've gone through a significant portion of DJ bootcamp before. Save yourself some time by jumping to the convo's; this will get you jump started since you are not truly a beginner (to cold approaches), but you give yourself at least a week before you face the ongoing anxiety of the number close.

As far as where to post, think about which forum (mature man or main) provides the quality feedback. Nothing against the main board since I post there myself, but keep in mind that a disproportionate number of posters on the main board are teenagers, who are understandably used to some truly adolescent shyt and therefore may not have a good sense of where you're coming from.

My last word of advice is to try to take care of yourself (such as by getting enough sleep) and don't get too discouraged, despite the inevitable ups and downs of approaches.
 
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Ever onward

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allan,

Nice to have your feedback for once. ;)

I think that I do need to start from scratch. After I started dating that girl I met in Bootcamp last fall I totally crashed and burned. I feel like I've crawled back into my shell and it's difficult to pull myself out right now. Last fall when I did the bootcamp, saying "hi" pulled me out of my shell and prepared me to be more social.

Afterall, how can I talk to someone if I can't even manage to say hi? I was at Target just now, I saw this gorgeous blonde. I walked down the aisle past her and I couldn't even manage to say "hello" all I could mutter was "excuse me" Right now I'm at the campus student union and there is a girl mid-twnenties sitting next to me and I can't even strike up a conversation.

About the main forum, sure there are a lot of immature people over there. But since I am experienced at bootcamp I feel like I can motivate the younger guys and that motivates me at the same time. I know a lot of them will struggle with the "hi's" but I'll be breezing through it once I get going.

As for the feedback, on this thread it seems to just be you and Ivyleeger. Ivyleeger isn't out the field and you are far beyond my level right now.

I will definetly keep thinking about it.
 

milesman

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*Jumps on bandwagon*.

Hey fellas, I'd like to start my bootcamp journey with anyone planning on starting shortly. I've seen a BC through before and actually got into some advanced stuff but it was years ago and with the mind of a college kid.

Anybody mind if I jump on board to shake the dust off? I can either start from scratch, or pickup at the convo stage-wherever you guys are coming in or recommend.
 

Never try to read a woman's mind. It is a scary place. Ignore her confusing signals and mixed messages. Assume she is interested in you and act accordingly.

Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.

allan976

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Allan: "Miles.....!!!!" (Allan already traveling on the wagon and finding the ride extremely bumpy yet highly exhilarating; Miles running behind the bandwagon at a furious pace).

Miles: "Yo......!!!!"

Allan: "Only one requirement before you jump on board!"

Miles: "What's that.....?! (panting heavily and pumping his arms furiously)"

Allan: "Don't......Give......Up!....Got it?"

Miles: (Slows his pace for a second; wonders if he should get on board after all) "Got it!"

(Allan grabs Miles by the arm (and vice versa) and pulls him on board before an AFC grabs Miles' ankles from the side of the road)

Miles: (grabbing the side rail on the wagon and watching the road disappearing behind him) "Damm, why didn't you tell me it was so stinkin' bumpy on this freakin' bandwagon......?!"




To be continued......
 

al77

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Originally posted by allan976
Allan: "Miles.....!!!!" (Allan already traveling on the wagon and Miles: "Yo......!!!!"
Miles: (grabbing the side rail on the wagon and watching the road disappearing behind him) "Damm, why didn't you tell me it was so stinkin' bumpy on this freakin' bandwagon......?!"
To be continued......
How true. Allan, the script is very realistic, so whats next? Audio\Video clips from the field?
.. really even with Audio only, you can set up your own quit popular website... I know, I know...
 

allan976

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Is anyone else in the mature man's forum actively engaged in bootcamp? It seems like this has become almost my own personal thread and I would like to see others join in the fun. Of course, I've been urging others on (actually cajoling is a more accurate term!) for months now, so I'm wondering if there are any takers. There's apparently tons of interest in bootcamp on the main board--should I double post or should I remain on this thread alone, apparently as the last of the mohicans?
 

Ever onward

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I don't know what to tell you. I'm starting bootcamp soon but I don't know where to post. I would like to post here but you don't post very often and I would like feedback. Also, I don't see you getting that enthused about me going out and collecting "hi's" as field reports.

I still haven't ruled out posting here but it would be nice if other people gave feedback or joined in with us.
 

allan976

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MAKING THE BEST OUT OF A LESS THAN IDEAL SITUATION

DJ Boot Camp,

Week 7, Day 24 or Week 8 Day 3 (Tuesday):

Just got back from a couple of bars. E O just kicked me in the rear for not posting recently so this is the 'penny' I give to the board, although given the timing of my outing, I didn't expect, nor did I find much.

9 PM: I arrive at the first bar. I expect a very large bar and a few dinner tables, but find the exact opposite. There are two smaller bar areas and lots of large lounge booths with tables. There are some plasma screens, and the decor is pretty nice and the waitresses are pretty hot, but guess what, the bar area is totally dead. There's a sixty year old guy chowing down on a huge plate of food. There's a '4.5' forty year old wearing glasses nursing a draft. There's a couple of groups of guys seated at the bar. No females. Some HB's arrive later, but all four of them take up a large booth with one male.

I look around at the pool table area, and the second bar area. There are some '6's', and a few HB7's, but they are all in their thirties and accompanied by males.

My wing chats up a couple of Black girls. These girls IMHO are HB6's. He chats for a while, but only for a minute or two.

My wing and I return to the main bar. There's a couple of blondes, perhaps in their late twenties at the bar now. I can't quite get a clean look at either of the girl's faces since I'm behind them and to their left, but I venture a guess they're in the '7' range. I get a closer look and one's about a 5.5 and the other's about a 6.5 or a generous 7. Normally, in the daytime, I wouldn't approach either. But, it's the evening, I've had a beer, and there's really noone else worth approaching who isn't accompanied by at least one male. I make my approach. After opening by asking what they're drinking, I discover they're from London. I fluff about having a friend there and ask where they've been in LA. After a couple of minutes, the 6.5 says she can't hear what I'm saying. I stand up from my stool and put my arm around both of them: "I can't hear you either, I'll come over." I pat them both on the head and call them my "little London girls" and they laugh out loud. I caress the girls' arms and hug them both while talking to them to see how how much I can get away with. I don't notice any resistance. However, my wing looks bored as hell. At that point, I'm torn since I wouldn't mind taking the 6.5 home with me right then and there. Why have I lowered my standards, you ask?

First, it's slim pickin's all 'round. Second, I'm slightly buzzed. Third, I want to show my wing I've got cajones.

But the wing just doesn't seem to be into it. I introduce him, and either because he's shy, or because he's not interested, he gives a half-smile, and appears non-committal. The girls seem quite friendly towards him, but my impression is that he's less interested in them than they are in him. So I eject by trying to get their numbers. The girls say their mobiles don't work in the states. I give them my number instead. I was planning on trying to get the room number of the motel they were staying at, but that could've led to me just going there and abandoning my wing, and I felt obliged to accompany my wing.

As I scramble for a pen, I look to my left and see my wing glancing over his shoulder at two HB7.5's standing immediately to his left. I nudge him: "they're pretty hot."

"I don't know how to open."
"Say anything, dude." I tell him.
He says something ("excuse me, do you have any paper?") but without much conviction: no smile, and the body language is not quite right since he's still slumped in his chair. The girls are not biting. I try to enter the convo:
"You girls have some paper for me?" I talk loudly in an animated voice. They're not going for it. They get their drinks at the bar and head elsewhere.

I give my number to the London girls and eject.

10 PM: The second venue is even worse in terms of the selection of women. The bar itself is terrific: it's a tex-mex place serving up fajitas and the aroma wafts through the entire building. Instead of the bar consisting of small rooms like a maze, it's one big open space supported by wooden pillars interspersed throughout the open area. Nice. Unfortunately, the girls are not attractive. There are some '5's' and '6's'. The problem for me is, unless I'm genuinely attracted, I just cannot put forth the effort. I try to open a couple of '6's' at the bar.

Me: "what you drinking there? That looks good!" I ask the '6' on my right.
Her: "it's (something I can't hear)....you should try it!" I can't quite catch the first part, and after just one sentence, I give up. The one on my right who's talking to me seems reasonably animated, but the girl on my left just glares at me:

"so, ANYWAY......as I was saying...."

Bad situation. I'm not into the '6' who's nice, and the other '6' is bytchy. Eject. My interest level isn't there, quite frankly, and one girl seems openly hostile.

My wing and I debate for a minute whether we should approach a blonde, a HB7.5. My wing considers her to be too tall for his taste. I counter by saying that she's the only girl worth talking to here, given the unimpressive selection. He says she probably came with one of the two guys she's talking to. After a minute or so of observation, I see one guy massage the girl's neck and hold her arm in in an intimate way. My wing's probably right, I gather. Time to eject the scene.

Lesson learned: no need to fear approaching girls in pairs. I first befriended and then kino'ed the London girls by getting between them, and holding the both of them in kind of a group hug with no objection from either. I think I could have gone even farther than that, much farther.

Lesson learned: my lack of energy is a bit of an issue now that I'm working full time and then some. I can't quite muster my previous level of enthusiasm without seemingly 'forcing it'. I have to work on this some more.

Lesson learned: working with a wing has its positives and challenges. The major plus is that I went out since I had a wing, and I have only gone out once during my bootcamp to a night venue without a wing. However, if you begin to chat up a pair of girls and the wing's not into it or wants to bail, you may be forced to choose. Likewise, my wing wanted to approach girls who were in groups and wanted my support, but I couldn't quite muster any enthusiasm because quite frankly I didn't find the girls attractive enough.

I really, really hope to have something better to report after a weekend outing when the hotties are out in force. To be honest, I don't expect things to pick up until next weekend, not this weekend. Even then, the major action in my part of town won't begin until mid september. On the positive side, I expect lots of out of towners to pass through all summer long. I'm really, really hoping that this weekend and/or a venue change will bring more and better options. The options this night were painfully limited.

Finally, props to my wing for following through by emailing me and actually making it out to these venues. He showed alot of courage by opening 'sets' as he calls it (I just call it talking to girls lol), and nudging me to talk to girls, even with girls who weren't quite model caliber by reminding me 'it's good practice.' Major props to you, bro.

PS: My wing told me about a bootcamp he attended (Mystery?) and told me about some of the techniques discussed and offered by the instructors. To be honest, much of the advice overlapped with the advice offered for free in the DJ Bible. The major difference of course is that you go out with instructors and you get to see them in action. But if you are looking simply for information and are willing to stumble along without an experienced wing/instructor (as I've been doing for a couple of months), I think you can improve significantly even without professional coaching. OK, that's my 'two cents!'

Comments welcome!
 

It doesn't matter how good-looking you are, how romantic you are, how funny you are... or anything else. If she doesn't have something INVESTED in you and the relationship, preferably quite a LOT invested, she'll dump you, without even the slightest hesitation, as soon as someone a little more "interesting" comes along.

Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.

allan976

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Weekend FR or Grope Report

AsianPlayboy requested it, so here it is: a weekend FR, or grope report if you will. If you are a member of law enforcement, the following is a figment of my imagination lol.


9:45 PM (VENUE ONE):

I show up at a western themed joint on LA's main entertainment strip. I manage to swing some free parking in the hills and hoof it 15 minutes or so to my nighttime venue. I'm a little worried since I promised my wing I'd be there a half hour earlier, at least.

When I get to the bar/restaurant, I look around for a guy who fits the description given to me (my wing is a guy who emailed me on a PUA list). He sees me first but only after I circle the place for about ten minutes. My wing's about 5'4", 125 lbs, early 40's, has thinning brown hair, a slight bald spot on the top of his head, and is wearing a hawaiian shirt and vans shoes. He's got an easy smile and relaxed manner, and is already chatting up some dude he's just met. I figure he must have mad game in order to compensate for his guy next door looks. Turns out he does indeed throw caution to the wind in his approaches.

We stay for about an hour there, and the situation is unfortunately a mess. We hang out on the patio area. We talk about how we might open a convo with three girls seated at a table. They're all caucasian, mid twenties, one's about a '5', one a '6' and the third might be a '7'. I figure this table of girls would be a tricky pick up at best. First of all, they're at a table, second, there are three of them, and third, my wing and I are not quite sure on how to approach. However, I just go ahead and open the table by sitting next to the '7'. I say hi and ask her how she's doing. She seems reasonably friendly, but soon is giving me one word answers. My wing actually takes a seat at their table. Bad idea. Bad idea. After two minutes, like I said, I'm getting one word answers from the '7'. The wing's chatting up the '6' and '5'. The '6' after two minutes, leans back in her chair, frowns, crosses her arms, sighs and rolls her eyes into the back of her head. My wing misses this since he's chatting up the '5' for the moment but I'm sitting directly behind the '6' and am watching it all unfold. I decide this is not worth pursuing, and I bail. My wing continues. After 5 minutes, he's back inside. I ask him how it went, hoping that he was able to execute a reversal since he was out there for an extended period of time. He informs me that he was 'asked to leave' by the girls. Later, he confides that the girls told him to jump over the railing. Yikes! Perhaps a venue change will help.

We run into a friend a mine and my wing tells him what happened with the three set. At was at this point that the wing confides that he was asked to jump over the rail. 'Whoa! Well, dating coach x is over there now, you should join us,' my friend says, but my wing and I decide to try out the second venue first.


11 PM (VENUE TWO):

We decide to bail and check out a lounge/club/bar further down the street. Again, my wing approaches without hesitation whereas I'm hesitant to approach. There are two blonde '8's' seated behind me. When he returns from the bathroom, he opens them with something about how it's too hot for the girls inside or something to that effect. They look up but say nothing and resume their conversation. 'I guess that didn't go so well,' he says seating himself. I didn't say so at the time, but he was standing way too far away, at least six feet away and speaking too quietly. I ask my wing if there is a bar. He says that it's a lounge and there is no bar. I suggest we go back inside and look around. Once inside he wants to open up a group of five girls seated inside the lounge. I tell him we should wait to see how their situation develops. Two minutes later, the girls wave down five guys and the girls are all sitting on their laps.

My wing opens up another set, this time it's a group of five girls standing in a circle, all part of a wedding group, I later discover. He seems to be doing ok at first when talking to them. He talks, smiles, chats for at least five minutes. He later tells me that they told him they're just waiting for their tab before they go. Turns out they were lying. These girls show up later at the bar he eventually finds and one says 'oh my god!' when the wing sees them and he says: 'I thought you said you were leaving!'

Therefore, we find the bar after my wing's wedding party approach. It's adjacent to a dance floor. I'm too shy to talk to girls when we're inside at the bar at first, although the vibe is much better than it was in the lounge area. We head back out to the lounge after hanging for about ten minutes. I see a friend who just happens to be with a dating coach at the time. They are headed back to the bar and so we decide to follow to see how they operate. I actually ask the coach for advice on how to get the ball rolling, once I'm inside. He says don't think, just react, that this place is a dojo for PUA's.

So, I see some girls who look reasonably attractive. These are two tall girls. One has a cute face, is very tall but is soft through the middle, if not quite fat. I'll give her a '6.5' or so. I put my arm around the '6.5' and chat her up. I tell her to dance chest to chest with her girlfriend like she was doing before. "No! That's not close enough!" I tell them as they turn towards each other. I push the two together until they are chest to chest and hip to hip dancing like they were before. I grab the '6.5's ass and slap it hard and squeeze it in my hand. "Awooooo!" this girl yells and smiles. I start getting close and dance with them. I untie the '6.5's' lace holding the back of her shirt together. No objections from the '6.5' as her straps come undone. Her friend sees and says 'nooo' and ties it up back up slowly. "Hey, your friend didn't have a problem with it!' I say. They seem happy dancing, grinding and drinking. I'm getting tired, so I eject since I don't know how to escalate aside from actually having sex on the dance floor with the '6.5', which probably wouldn't have been kosher with the '6.5's' friend.

I chat with my wing after and tell him that the dating coach's words made me feel less inhibited. He sees a blonde cutie, about a '7.5' (I rate her a '7', my wing rates her about an '8') right in front of me. She's alone, and standing still. She's about 5' 6" in heels, about 22, has a cute face and nice thin body. My wing tells me to go open her. I walk over the six feet to where she is and put my arm around her waist and hold her. I pull her in a bit and rest her hip lightly on my crotch. It's loud so I talk loudly in her ear. I find out she's from England, and she's here for a week blah blah blah, and I ask her what I should do when I visit England blah blah blah. I rub her arm, hold her waist, and rest her butt on my crotch. She's starting to resist a bit physically, pushing me away slightly, although she's still smiling and seems into the convo. I try something else. I ask her if she likes this music and if she likes to dance. She says she likes the music but isn't a good dancer. I take her by the arm and lead her into the heart of the dance floor. True, she can't dance. I try to grind her a bit. "I have to go find my friend!" she says, and scampers off.


CONCLUSION:

I became much less inhibited after the dating coach told me not to think, but just react. I was very hesitant to open before, but not afterwards.

Lesson learned: gentlemen, leave your inhibitions at the door when you go to a bar/club. This scene is not for the sensitive-guy type or for the faint of heart. The guys for the most part are in their early to mid twenties, good looking, ultra aggressive (for example, I saw one guy cautiously rubbing his hand along a girl's thigh up to her crotch. After seeing this, I figured more direct physical contact was in order during my approaches as well), and have had several drinks to boot. The girls are aware of this, are highly selective, and wait for the best looking guy and/or a reasonably good looking guy who will open and persist without fear.

If anything, I might have gone just a little too far too fast with the second girl, but it was a good experiment. You have to be flexible too. The English girl liked the convo, the tall '6.5' liked the grind and grab and the more direct line of action. I don't know what to make of this night, but that's what happened.

Lesson learned 2: I haven't been a very good wing on my outings. I'm not helping out my wings with the UG's or giving them the support they want/need. Of course I found some of the girls unattractive in various sets that my wing opened, but that's the whole point of being a wing--you've got to provide support so your wing doesn't have to carry the entire burden himself. What can I say, I'm learning.
 
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iveyleeger

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I laughed my azz off at the "jump over the rail" part!

I could've used that line last night when some loser dude was glomming on to me at a club. Fortunately a girl showed up and I used her as a literal ****-block.

What I am thinking is, you could really use that kind of wing to your advantage. Send him out on his kamikaze mission, and just when the women are ready to beat him off with a barstool, you show up. They ought to be very glad to see you at that point. You can buy him drinks after you get their number. What do you think?
 

allan976

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"Send him out on his kamikaze mission, and just when the women are ready to beat him off with a barstool, you show up."

---LOL. At one point that night (actually at several points) I was trying to recall the truism: 'fools rush in where angels fear to tread.' I actually had to google it just now to get it! I think if you're terribly unconcerned about getting rejected, then sure, go right in and go for the gusto, regardless of the situation or the odds.

The thing is, we were working L.A.'s main entertainment strip, and this strip of real estate has a reputation as being a bit of a meat market. This reputation is largely an illusion for the following reasons:

1. many guys bring their trophy girlfriends out for dates to the strip and hit up lounges/clubs like the one we were at.

2. many girls are in groups waiting up for groups of guys on group dates.

3. the girls seem ultra selective, forcing guys (such as yours truly) to sarge like there's no tomorrow. However, given the sheer mass of young, good looking drunk horny men, the girls apparently figure if they wait it out, a better looking or richer guy will come along at any second. Therefore, their bytch shields are set to 'maximum'.

4. the reputation of the strip as 'Sarge Central' also contributes to the problem; professional PUA's, annoying newb's, and the 'promise' of something better, perhaps later that night, or at a different venue, leads these girls to wait it out indefinitely from what I can tell.

5. Therefore, the promise of a raging 'meat market' really is an illusion, leading to frustrating nights like last Saturday/Sunday.

Feel free to call this rant out as AFC-induced madness if appropriate.

To get back to your post, leeger, fastseduction.com actually recommends that players leech off others' crashes and burns whenever possible, but my wing didn't even want to wait for those situations to develop! I told him to wait for situations where a girl was clearly trying to brush off a guy, but hadn't quite sent him packing. My wing wanted to head right in there anyway, which could only have irritated the girl further since she'd now have to fend off two guys rather than one (all while she was in a bad, defensive mood). A yay yay!:rolleyes:
 

iveyleeger

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Not a rant. It's the facts. That's why I avoid these venues.

And I learned in college how fruitless it is to approach like your hawaiin shirt dude.

I rarely have a wing, but if I do, I try to get one that I can learn from. Sometimes married guys work well b/c they won't c0ckblock and don't give off a desparate vibe; women trust them.
 

Ricky

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Ivyleeger, there is a name for sending a wing over to crash and burn and you sweep up

Its called Good Cop Bad Cop. Unfortunately none of my friends would ever do the crash and burn.

I may have a couple good new wings. I will keep you posted.
 

Never try to read a woman's mind. It is a scary place. Ignore her confusing signals and mixed messages. Assume she is interested in you and act accordingly.

Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.

allan976

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CREEPY WING

...talking about wings. I just winged with a third different individual in the past two weeks. This guy....I am just trying to wrap my head around how incredibly weird and creepy this individual was.

8:30 PM:
I met up with the wing (let's call him Jay) at a local coffeeshop. I knew I was in trouble right away. He had greasy black hair, a red t shirt, green pants, some sort of army fatigue hat, and some off green or yellow shoes. Just a complete color coordination mess. Actually, I knew I was in trouble just talking with him on the phone. The first time I talked to him, he had a very girl-ish lisp and I suspected that he might be gay and was using the excuse of wanting to wing to try to pick up guys. My initial gut reaction was that I should think twice about winging with him, but I went ahead and met up with him, wanting to get out and work on my night time game. I see him at the coffeeshop, and he has the weirdest, full tooth grin which just makes my skin crawl.

OK, so we head out and walk a couple of blocks to the nearest bar (this place hops September to June, but is terribly slow during the summer). It's 95% guys and Jay suggests that we check something else out.

We walk back to his car and I suggest a bar (the lounge bar I visited last Tuesday) near my place. Inside the car, he tells me I should watch out since he is very aggressive: "wanna see my glock?"
What a fycking creep. I wanted to bail right there. Now I know how women feel around serial killers and rapists. I give him directions to the bar. As we get closer, he has the nerve to ask for parking money: "I'm a student." Things are getting worse and worse.


9 PM: Venue One:

Inside the bar, he actually offers to pay for my drink:

J: how much are drinks are here.
Me: Four or five dollars.

J also helps me approach two blonde girls. These girls ironically, are sitting in exactly the same place as the two blondes from London. However, one is a 7.5, the other is a 6. Nice. Jay tells them to scoot over to make room for me and for himself. I take a seat next to the 7.5 and take a look at her face. I recognize this girl from school; actually, I was her instructor two years ago.

Me: Hi, do you remember me?
Her: (staring, with a look of incomprehension on her face).
Me: Did you take class x a while back? I was one of the instructors.

Jay: excuse me (to the 7.5), but you are so beautiful.
Her: Thank yoooou.
Jay: you look like you're thirty.
Her: she looks offended. No! I'm not thirty!
Jay fluffs some more, I can't remember what he's saying. He's getting nowhere.

I talk to HB7.5 some more about school, her work, and fluff some more. I'm not doing much better. I just feel extremely self conscious trying to 'pick her up' and switch between wanting to pick her up and wanting to treat her like a former student. Just weird. Weird, weird, weird. HB7.5 begins to look around, scoping for other guys. I know I have to eject soon given this sign. I talk to Jay for awhile as he is gesturing my way. I told him to go occupy the '6' to give me a better chance of closing.

J: 'what are you doing?'
Me: I thought you were motioning me over.
J: Nooo, I was telling you to continue!

At this point, I want to put my foot straight up J's ass, but I know it's not cool to lose my cool. I go back to talk to the HB7.5, but I'm feeling very ambivalent. I exit:

Me: it was nice talking to you.
Her: yea, I'm sure I'll see you around again.

to be continued...
 

allan976

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ANOTHER CREEPY WING

10 PM: Venue Two:

J wants to jet. I suggest a couple of other places. We head over to another bar about a mile away. Lots of pretty girls, many in the 7.5 or 8 range (hey, makeup and clothes and alcohol inspired bravado/confidence all make a difference). To be honest, I am really intimidated by this environment. I am just out of my element when it gets loud and crowded and I just cannot relax. I look around and to me it seems like all of the girls are 'occupied,' talking to their girlfriends or some male companion. These girls are facing their girlfriends and the guys face to face. It looks like I am shut out. I approach two girls anyway. They are both about 6.5's.

Me: how are you girls doing?
Her: grimaces, rather than smiles. She pauses a few seconds and says 'fine.'
Me: what's your name?
Her: pauses again and gives her name.
Me: I extend my hand for a handshake and tell her my name.
Her: she extends her hand slowly, reluctantly. 'Excuse me, I have to go. A guy approaches and she gets up walks past me to hug him.

Crash and burn.

J motions me over to talk to him.
J: 'hey, what did you say to that girl?
Me: I said 'how are you doing?'
J: Don't do that, that's too generic.
Me: What did you use?
J: I use an opinion opener.
Me: what's that.
J: Like, who do you think cheats more? Guys or girls?
Me: Did it work?
J: No, it didn't work, usually it doesn't work. I was asking what you said because after you said what you did, your girl decided to get up and leave and took the other girl with her.
Me: so you're saying I'm to blame with those two girls?
J: No! No! I'm not saying that (he's backtracking like crazy). I was just asking you what you said.
Me: Oh, ok, I thought you were saying I was to blame for those girls getting up to talk to those two guys. I'm saying those two girls were waiting for two guys.
J: Yea, but....
Me: Let's get over it. We didn't know they were waiting for those two guys. We would have known if we had waited two minutes longer.
J: silent.
Me: It's over, man. It didn't work out, forget about it. Move on.

We both walk around and J wants to exit this venue.


10:30 PM: Venue Three:

Immediately next door is another bar. This is the tex-mex bar I described as being slow last Tuesday. The action has picked up. The situation looks the same as the previous place: lots of 7's and 8's crammed into a small area but they all seem 'occupied' with a girlfriend/s or several guys, as was the case with venue two.

Jay says something which irritates me big time. I really can't take any more of this guy.
Me: Jay, listen to me. Don't tell me what to do.
J: I'm sorry, man.
Me: Also, when you say you're going to get a gun, I know you're just joking, but we're strangers. You need to watch it with comments like that.
J: I feel really bad right now. You're right.
Me: It's over, man. You know how I feel now, it's cool.
J: yea, you're right.
Me: Look, I think we should've sat down at some point and talked about how we want to approach girls ahead of time.
J: yea, totally.
Me: Because right now, I'm totally confused about what you want to do and how you're trying to accomplish it. Like, do you only approach single girls or sets of two or three or what?
J: nods. Well, I'm not afraid to open sets of two or three girls, but my weakness is with mixed sets, with guys and girls.
Me: And I should let you know this is basically my second week of going out to nighttime venues for pickups.
J: Oh, I didn't know that. Because usually I go out with guys I know really well, and I just push them to go talk to a girl, know what I mean?
Me: Yea, I see.

A couple of minutes later, J tells me he's just not feeling it tonight. Again, J fycks up with me outside.
J: can I be honest with you, bro?
Me: (shyt, here we can go again with his fycking mouth I think)
J: you're not peacocking enough. In an environment like this, girls focus on your appearance. Like, if you're not that good looking, you have to emphasize your clothes. Like, a nice pair of flashy shoes and a flashy shirt. See, my shoes are kind of gold in color, so they're flashy.

I look at J's shoes and they look like dingy tennis shoes.

Remember that girl you were telling me about who dressed up real flashy the second time and you rated her higher? It's like that way with girls who look at guys at night.

I'm looking at J, with his unkempt hair, blotchy skin tone, glasses, hunting cap, dingy red t shirt, thinking 'who the hell are you to give fashion advice to anyone?!!'

We stop at a fast food stand at his insistence. He tells me I need to keep 'opening sets' regardless of how I feel. 'See, I told you that for free. A dating coach would have charged you over a thousand dollars.' He is implying I owe him a thousand dollars. The ego of this ugly guy is completely out of control. What an idiot! We get back to his car and he drives me back to my parking lot.

J: we should definitely hang out again, bro. Let's stay in touch.
Me: Yea, definitely (not on your fycking life, I think). I exit his car and am relieved as hell I made it through the night alive; forget about picking up chicks.

Lesson learned 1: Again, I can't believe this night happened, but it did. I just know I can't find any more wingmen on the board I've been using to meet up with so-called wings from LA. The common thread of my night outings, at least the last two times is that I've met psychopaths who have no sense of how attractive they are, have a mindless numbers based strategy to approaching, are simply incompetent as far as the nighttime game is concerned, and have no idea of how (un) attractive they are.

Lesson learned 2: I need sleep. I am tired as hell at night.

Lesson learned 3: the nighttime game is completely different from the daytime game. During the day, you use your mind and convo to initiate, deal with objections and close with lone girls who are unsuspecting, have their bytch shield almost completely off, and you get your chores done regardless of whether you close or not. At night, you better be outrageously aggressive, confident, and I have to concede, peacock like there's no tomorrow.

Lesson learned 1a: I have never met two guys with such poor instincts about how to interact with people, and about how to prevent themselves from offending and irritating others. I definitely have to avoid ever looking at that board again (the other board, not this one) for any reason, much less to find wings. What was even crazier still is that at several points during our 'outing' my wing kept referring to himself as a 'natural' (as in natural PUA)! Un-friggin' believable!!!

Lesson learned 3a: The nighttime game is really, really tough. At least it is for me. If I had started at night, I might have given up at week two. Given my modicum of successes during the day, I'm willing to continue giving the night a shot.
 
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iveyleeger

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"Wanna see my Glock."

I think your wing was propositioning you there, man. But look on the bright side: this sh-t is hilarious to read! Living in L.A. you could probably make CreepyWing into a reality series :)

With the former student, I think that was a real opportunity, b/c you had higher status than her in the classroom. I have some (fairly dorky) friends who date their former students, so I know it works. But you gave up the power when you asked if she remembered you. Instead, *assume* that she does, and use that context for the c+f stuff, and let her be AFC and apologize if she doesn't figure it out right away. Hard to do in this venue, of course.

On the clothes, I have bought form-fitting and flashy stuff from designers like Kenneth Cole, Claiborne, Cardin, Calvin Klein, etc. and it does make a big difference in the response I get, as well as my confidence. I think I go from about a 4 to a 6 in looks. If you are doing nighttime venues err on the side of more than less. Just watch out for the guys who inevitably show up and want to show you their glocks! LOL
 

allan976

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BOOTCAMP SUMMARY

OK, I'm officially finished with nine weeks of bootcamp. As MOTU predicted, I was able to collected quite a few numbers, and kiss close by the end of seven weeks. By my count, I had three near misses that I think could easily have evolved into LR's (yogurt girl 7.5, massage girl 7.5, and the London girls 5.5/6.5). My lack of experience prevented me from closing those situations as I should have. Also, I STILL have not been rejected 10 times for number closes (still at 7) and only have 4 numbers active (10/10 are supposed to be the bootcamp minimums) which just goes to show you that getting rejected frequently for phone numbers is not quite as easy as it sounds.

btw: I also need massive help with my phone skills, but that's another story in and of itself!

By the time I started my new full time job this summer however, my momentum came to a screeching halt. I was astonished at the change in my demeanor: In recent days, I have been looking at myself in the mirror and even though I look exactly the same as before (or even a little better), I constantly feel like a motor running uphill on empty: in fact, my energy levels (as far as DJ-ing is concerned) has declined nearly to a vanishing point. In fact, this Thursday, I caught a glimpse of myself in the mirror heading out of a bar, and was astonished by my slumped shoulders and back, and the position of my head, which was leaning down at a forty five degree angle instead of standing straight up on my shoulders. My body language bespoke fatigue, a lack of enthusiasm, and either depression or a need for sleep (or both)! During my first six weeks, I'd occasionally walk in front of, or by a mirror and think 'damm, that guy looks scary!' or 'hey, that guy looks confident...hey it's me!' Not anymore! My sudden decline in energy which has coincided with a move to nighttime venues (which ironically requires an extremely high level of energy) has led to my confidence plummeting.

I am still committed 100% to DJ-ing, as my confidence on the job has absolutely skyrocketed as a happy concomitant, but I need some advice on how to reserve my energy now that I work full time and wake at 5:30 AM every morning.

What do you all think? Should I go through DJ boot camp all over again? Must I go to bed by 9 PM every evening to save my energy? How do I get my energy reserves back (I teach every day and the students sap, in a good way, my daily energy reserves)? How have others coped with time/energy issues. After all, this is the mature man's section and we all have careers and we're not the high energy freaks we all used to be when we were 18 or 20!
 

Ever onward

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Hey allan

I take it your done with bootcamp then? If you feel like doing it over again from the start, that is up to you.

Maybe you could start an approach blog. I started one for my bootcamp.

Try some vitamins for your energy! B-6, B-12, and try ginsing.

Later man
 

Men frequently err by talking too much. They often monopolize conversations, droning on and on about topics that bore women to tears. They think they're impressing the women when, in reality, they're depressing the women.

Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.

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