America lowers men's self esteem

[Pandora]

Productive average men are respected in most of the world. It is only in highly developed Western nations that men are tricked into believing that they are not the prize. The truth is the exact opposite. I am not being hyperbolic. The truth is that good men are really the prize.

In a sane society women chase men. The man is supposed to only slightly court a woman and she will take it from there. In America we are brainwashed to believe that we must grovel for a date. We are expected to chase a woman around for weeks.

Many men will not realize this until they travel and talk to women outside of the USA. The difference is night and day. Like many things, the USA is its own altered reality.

Just remember that if you are average shape, make an average wage, no weird social issues, no addictions, are kind...then you are inherently the prize. Dont let this stupid nation of the USA make you feel otherwise.

In nature the man is disposable but he is also the one that is the most valuable. It is a paradox. This is why relationships only work if the women see's the man as the prize. This is because this is the natural order of things. She sucks your ding a ling. She lets you penetrate HER. Not the other way around.

American men are so brainwashed into thinking they aint nothing that its sad. I am going to Eastern Europe and the Middle East again soon. I will also make a trip to Africa. If I had the skill set I would live over seas. America is so bad for a mans mental health. For everyones mental health really.

 

[justaroundthecorner]

I do not think it is just about America - if you live in any European country, females perceive men from abroad by default as more interesting than men from their own country - that's why for example men from Italy or Spain like to pursue women from Slavic countries (which are generally more attractive than Spanish or Italian women) so it's double-win for them to just go abroad. Spaniards and Italians are generally very good at manipulating female hypergamy to their own needs.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

if you live in any European country, females perceive men from abroad by default as more interesting than men from their own country

Except when you're American. I'm sorry, but on the European dating market, Americans are only interesting for Green Card relationships, and going to America is not as great as it was before the millennium. For the last decades, the reputation of America as the 'Land of Milk & Honey' has been sliding towards the gutter. Maybe you can find yourself a Melania, but the higher echelon of European women are not interested in relationships with the average American tourist.

 

[Pandora]

Except when you're American. I'm sorry, but on the European dating market, Americans are only interesting for Green Card relationships, and going to America is not as great as it was before the millennium. For the last decades, the reputation of America as the 'Land of Milk & Honey' has been sliding towards the gutter. Maybe you can find yourself a Melania, but the higher echelon of European women are not interested in relationships with the average American tourist.

In my case these girls did not want a Greencard. I was genuinely exotic to them. That myth of the Greencard girl is overblown. Like you said people know that America is not what it used to be. Many of these women have better lives in their home nation.

Hey you still have to be good looking to pull in Eastern Europe. So I kind of agree but if you have a unique exotic look it is a playground. I think this is what the @justaroundthecorner was saying. The exotic looking guys do better in Eastern Europe. Just like the anglo looking guys are exotic in Asia and they do very well there.

 

[Pandora]

I do not think it is just about America - if you live in any European country, females perceive men from abroad by default as more interesting than men from their own country - that's why for example men from Italy or Spain like to pursue women from Slavic countries (which are generally more attractive than Spanish or Italian women) so it's double-win for them to just go abroad. Spaniards and Italians are generally very good at manipulating female hypergamy to their own needs.

This is true. I look a lot different so they are curious. Even in relationships though these girls value their native men more than American women value their men. Correct me if I am wrong.

I am not speaking about Western Europe which is America lite. I am talking about the Balkans and Eastern Europe. Places that are not so hyper developed yet. They treat a man decently. This is what I observed but if you actually live there please correct me.

Btw speaking of Italian men. Those dudes are womanizers to the core. Scumbags. I have a story to tell about them. They will try to sleep with your girl or wife or sister etc. They dont care. This is what I have heard. So I understand what you mean about manipulating female hypergamy. They are expert seducers.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

Hey you still have to be good looking to pull in Eastern Europe. So I kind of agree but if you have a unique exotic look it is a playground. I think this is what the @justaroundthecorner was saying. The exotic looking guys do better in Eastern Europe. Just like the anglo looking guys are exotic in Asia and they do very well there.

I don't consider myself 'good looking' or even 'handsome', but I've attracted women from all over the place. I think, based on my experience, that having an 'interesting/exciting vibe' is more important than mere (exotic) looks.

 

[DreamAgain]

This is true. I look a lot different so they are curious. Even in relationships though these girls value their native men more than American women value their men. Correct me if I am wrong.

I am not speaking about Western Europe which is America lite. I am talking about the Balkans and Eastern Europe. Places that are not so hyper developed yet. They treat a man decently. This is what I observed but if you actually live there please correct me.

Btw speaking of Italian men. Those dudes are womanizers to the core. Scumbags. I have a story to tell about them. They will try to sleep with your girl or wife or sister etc. They dont care. This is what I have heard. So I understand what you mean about manipulating female hypergamy. They are expert seducers.

It is a little better, I am from EE/balkans region, but the younger girls are the same like the ones in america. Social media has homogenized the world for let's say the 22-25 and younger crowd.

I don't know which group you are targeting, perhaps the older women who didn't grow up with this technology (more appropriately stated disease) will behave differently.

Go for yourself and find out but you will be disappointed most likely, the only improvement will be fitter bodies.

Education in particular will be weaker, development of critical thinking skills is almost non existent for the majority of these girls.

 

[Travel memoir21]

The type of women were dealing with here in America ain't helping much with the situation here either.

Here's an example:

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/leJf6U3f2CU

 

[Divorced w 3]

America doesn’t want losers; we only let the cream rise to the top over here - America invented Darwinism, and has a fantastic way of separating the wheat from the chaff.

 

[SW15]

American culture is centered around giving women "all the feelz".

 

[Hamurabimbi]

If the Covidiocy didn’t convince you to reject and ignore the media, government and other bastions of propaganda…well.
I live in the US as a man and don’t feel demoralized. And I live in a Woke shvt-hole.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

This is not the way it works.

Why do you think in the animal Kingdom males of the species often have showy flashy colors and often must "fight" for the right to mate with females of the species who just sit there and watch and then mate with the winner or whoever puts on the best show and "wins" the competition.

The problem is men have stopped wanting to compete at literally everything in life and want things handed to them with no effort put in.

Competing is literally one of the most masculine traits a male has and IMO the drastically lowered T levels of the species is largely responsible. A hormone that defines your "maleness" necessarily means you won't be as interested in doing "masculine" things when it's greatly lowered.

Doesn't work that way with women or anything else in life except for rich kids whose parents give them everything...and they usually amount to nothing other than alcoholics, drug addicts or entitled spoiled brats that think the world owes them a favor.

 

[Clockwerk50]

This issue extends beyond the United States. Many men who struggle with dating often feel entitled to reproduce, viewing it as their birthright, and they express frustration about their situation online constantly. Meanwhile, some women in their 30s state that they do not see themselves as "charity cases" and are unwilling to have children with men who have not accomplished anything or who have been passive or unambitious in the past. They may compensate for a ”fixer upper” individual if all of her options have drained.

Before I address my main point, I'd like to clarify two things:

1. Why foreigners are treated nicely abroad: Americans are often perceived as exotic, intriguing, and exciting in other countries. This allure, combined with the lack of commitment and temporary stay, can make Americans more attractive to locals, leading to short-term relationships or affairs. This dynamic is not unique to Americans; people from other countries, such as Spaniards or Italians example given above, experience similar interactions abroad. Also, Americans might attract locals through offers of financial stability or immigration benefits.
2. Principles in dating scenes: The dating scene generally reflects the principle that women date up, while men date within their bracket or down. This is influenced by social dynamics rather than Marxist ideology.

To address the notion that traveling abroad offers better experiences, remember that Americans traveling abroad may benefit from their status as citizens of developed countries, but this advantage is more about chance and status than the “prize” mentality merit. Essentially, people from developed countries have certain advantages due to their circumstances. Local “average” men face similar challenges with dating, as mediocrity is rarely rewarded everywhere.

Now to my point regarding "average men," mediocrity is seldom rewarded. If the roles were reversed, with an average woman seeking attention from men, such as a woman who is considered average in looks and has several personal issues, those men might not reciprocate. This reflects how women often feel in their own dating environments.

In today's world, men who frequently succeed in dating are proactive and take charge of their lives, rather than complaining about their situation. They are confident in what they offer and have realistic expectations. Dating top-tier women often requires demonstrable results and ambition. Those who are passive or unremarkable may find themselves left behind.

 

[Giovanni SouthSide]

It comes down to niche to break the American individualism and lack of societal constraints. Add careerism, and you see why the incentives for men go way down, slogging long work hours and careers take women out of their looks and fertility prime, raises their expectations, simultaneously not "needing" men until it's too late because the whole entering the workplace game has been played to the economy's (globalist and statist) endgame. And that's the sentiment it comes down to. Successful, professional, deep thinking men are screwed, when women don't need them.

The issue with niche is that if you find a "religious" girl, she is still in the bad culture. And how many of those girls are truly devoted and out of the culture to a meaningful degree? Few.

No one wants to say it, but it comes down to selection pressures on women being very low when there is no dependence on men. Currently, there aren't many at all. Society is structured to take care of them, resource and safety wise. The problem is that we didn't evolve in that environment, so biology is still there but civilizational stability isn't because at least in the West, consumerism and the economics-over-everything mentalities put all the other desirable qualities to third tier. That same economy uber alles led to many other feedback reinforcers --- immigration, lower wages across the board, less social harmony, etc.

The amusing (and sad) thing is that the older you get, you paradoxically need a younger and younger wife, or it all makes less sense, since as a male you do better and are wiser, and what's the point otherwise? If you are solid and have resources and intelligence or wisdom, why would you get involved with someone unless to have a family with someone on that same page? Yet you are prompted by others to take the rapidly washed up rehabilitated whxre off the shelves, even at your successful state.

The near entirety of human existence understood these biological laws of men and women. In the last 50 years, they suggest that we somehow morphed and should just forget the past. The quintessential idiocy comes out (not that anyone really buys it) in slogans like "The future is female.”

NPC: ... but modern people are "smarter" they say. Yet somehow they can't figure out that we're here because of what our ancestors did before us, since time of immemorial. A sad truth, demon in the details.

 

[jhonny9546]

The type of women were dealing with here in America ain't helping much with the situation here either.

Here's an example:

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/leJf6U3f2CU

Be Ready to find many masculine women here in italy

 

[The Duke]

The amusing (and sad) thing is that the older you get, you paradoxically need a younger and younger wife, or it all makes less sense, since as a male you do better and are wiser, and what's the point otherwise? If you are solid and have resources and intelligence or wisdom, why would you get involved with someone unless to have a family with someone on that same page? Yet you are prompted by others to take the rapidly washed up rehabilitated whxre off the shelves, even at your successful state.

As the sun starts to set on my 40's, I've finally started to see my true value in those things you mentioned. And when I look at women my own age, i have little to no desire for them. I bring more to the table than ever before in every single area(minus a few wrinkles), so my mindset has started to change. A 50yo woman has nothing to offer on par to what I offer SMV wise.

My current girlfriend is 20years younger and its been a breath of fresh air.

 

[Dr_jitsu]

I am much older and while I have a bodybuilder physique, my face really went downhill after the age of 60. At my local gym white/American women, if I smile and say hello give me that "don't even get near me you creepy old man" look. I am most certainly not hitting on them, just being polite.

I take my son to a wrestling club across town where 90% of the women are from Central/South America. Not only are the much hotter than most other American women they are much friendlier. They always smile and say high back and I always try and help them with their training.

Speaking of which, they are all genetically gifted in the derrière department yet still train that area vigorously.

TLDR: South and Central American women are much hotter and friendlier then American. Of course we all know this.

 

[sangheilios]

I am much older and while I have a bodybuilder physique, my face really went downhill after the age of 60. At my local gym white/American women, if I smile and say hello give me that "don't even get near me you creepy old man" look. I am most certainly not hitting on them, just being polite.

I take my son to a wrestling club across town where 90% of the women are from Central/South America. Not only are the much hotter than most other American women they are much friendlier. They always smile and say high back and I always try and help them with their training.

Speaking of which, they are all genetically gifted in the derrière department yet still train that area vigorously.

TLDR: South and Central American women are much hotter and friendlier then American. Of course we all know this.

Most young(er) women act like that with men they don't know, I wouldn't take that personally. I'm much younger than you at 34, 6'4" and very fit/athletic and have had some interactions like that with women at the gym for things like asking if they are using a machine or stuff like that. I wouldn't put too much thought into this.

 

[sangheilios]

@Pandora

A lot of what you are describing is cultural.

For decades now we can see that many television shows make the husband look stupid, whilst the wife basically wears the pants and is the decision maker in the family. A great example would be "Married with Children".

Another really good television example that is fantastic if you want to study female psychology is "Sex and the City". I've posted on this before, but the reason why it was so popular was because women could relate to one or more of the main characters. Some of the male characters in the show that were involved with Miranda and Charlotte, the red head and the brunette, ranged from being nerdy/weird or even having sexual issues, in the case of Charlotte. A lot of these men were actually good guys that had interest that otherwise would have treated them well, but because of the problems they had they were seen as problematic relationship prospects, thus why the show made fun of them. Meanwhile, the main character, Carrie, just goes around chasing an unavailable man, though I think this also served as a warning to women.

I also believe that the feminist movement and women pursuing careers is a huge part to play in this. Women that get a career/job really have no need for a man in our society. The problem you'll see with career women is that they operate on a masculine wavelength and honestly become entitled, excessively picky, etc. It's actually abnormal/unnatural for women to be in this position. There are stats that show emotional/psychological well being of male vs female CEOs, high level business professionals, etc. These are positions that are incredibly demanding and take up much, if not all, of your life. Anyway, the trend you'll find is that men are overwhelmingly very happy/content, but women in these same positions display the opposite.

The final variable that I feel is very important is dating apps. Men that use these apps are literally going to be competing against dozens or even hundreds of other men that a woman is talking to. In short, it basically leads to an environment where men are seen as incredibly disposable and really not worth all that much.

I personally believe that the dating apps was what really ruined the dating market in the west and the biggest factor at play. I feel these other variables I cited above for sure played a role, but they weren't as profound on dating as the apps were. I believe declines in marriage rates are tied to this.

Overall, young men are living in a very bad time when it comes to attracting a partner.

 

[RickTheToad]

Productive average men are respected in most of the world. It is only in highly developed Western nations that men are tricked into believing that they are not the prize. The truth is the exact opposite. I am not being hyperbolic. The truth is that good men are really the prize.

In a sane society women chase men. The man is supposed to only slightly court a woman and she will take it from there. In America we are brainwashed to believe that we must grovel for a date. We are expected to chase a woman around for weeks.

Many men will not realize this until they travel and talk to women outside of the USA. The difference is night and day. Like many things, the USA is its own altered reality.

Just remember that if you are average shape, make an average wage, no weird social issues, no addictions, are kind...then you are inherently the prize. Dont let this stupid nation of the USA make you feel otherwise.

In nature the man is disposable but he is also the one that is the most valuable. It is a paradox. This is why relationships only work if the women see's the man as the prize. This is because this is the natural order of things. She sucks your ding a ling. She lets you penetrate HER. Not the other way around.

American men are so brainwashed into thinking they aint nothing that its sad. I am going to Eastern Europe and the Middle East again soon. I will also make a trip to Africa. If I had the skill set I would live over seas. America is so bad for a mans mental health. For everyones mental health really.

In this day and age, honestly, in general, both sexes suck. It seems a race to the bottom these days. The current Western civilization can be compared to the end of the Roman Empire.