Am I boring?

[iqqi]

I am still talking with a couple of women online, leftover from before my latest dating disaster. Should I just cut contact with them then and work on myself for awhile? Or tell them I am not ready to date yet? I still have the desire to meet women and it is even more depressing to think I should not even try, and barring any radical life extension technology life is short.

On one hand I see where people are coming from, they probably think I have serious psychological issues because of what I wrote about, and that people like me shouldn't be dating anyone. I initially came on here to get some advice on how not to mess up when meeting a woman the first time and it has gotten more in depth then I originally intended it to be.

Well I disagree about not talking to chicks til you get your sh!t together. Who ever really has their sh!t together, really.

You should not try to get into a serious relationship til you have your sh!t atleast mostly together.

until then, practice makes perfect.

Don't cut contact. Practice.

Let us help you each baby step of the way, if you need/want.

 

[iqqi]

And yeah, it might get a little deep sometimes. We have alot of budding psychologists and experts here at sosuave.

 

[guru1000]

Stephen, do this. Check your testosterone levels. Go to the gym , do heavy squats and deadlifts to bring your T levels higher. All the advice in the world can all inspire you temporarily. To permanently change you need to change your thinking. Hormone deficiency is prominent in Beta males and is not spoken about alot in this forum. Any one who flames hormone deficiency does not understand it.

When T levels are high your thinking changes leading to different actions and hence results. Do a google search on hormone deficiency and I bet you, you have 90% of the symptoms just based on your post. Sometimes the best thinking in the world won't solve the problem if the hormones are not regulated. Low T levels also contribute to obesity and a lack of muscle mass.
Give it a shot, I can almost guarantee you based on your OP, this is the problem.

 

[jophil28]

leftove
Should I just cut contact with them then and work on myself for awhile? Or tell them I am not ready to date yet?

So how exactly would you "work on yourself ?"
This phrase alwayys has the same empty ring as that other meaningless saying- " I am dealing with it ." OK, exactly HOW are you dealing with it?
Just empty rhetoric IMO.

The best way to relate to women is to "relate to women" - in other words -PRACTICE . Get some range practice. You do not learn marksmanship by contemplating your navel or "working on yourself" you become a marksman by practice with a weapon .. Read the book first, get a coach and then start pulling the trigger.
Action is key. Read the DJ Bible and Pook - take what you need and leave the rest and then go hunting.

 

[PxDx]

Stephen, do this. Check your testosterone levels. Go to the gym , do heavy squats and deadlifts to bring your T levels higher. All the advice in the world can all inspire you temporarily. To permanently change you need to change your thinking. Hormone deficiency is prominent in Beta males and is not spoken about alot in this forum. Any one who flames hormone deficiency does not understand it.

When T levels are high your thinking changes leading to different actions and hence results. Do a google search on hormone deficiency and I bet you, you have 90% of the symptoms just based on your post. Sometimes the best thinking in the world won't solve the problem if the hormones are not regulated. Low T levels also contribute to obesity and a lack of muscle mass.
Give it a shot, I can almost guarantee you based on your OP, this is the problem.

x2

By far THE most powerful herbal test booster i've ever used...

http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/get/testhardcore.html

 

[MikeYikes122]

Well I disagree about not talking to chicks til you get your sh!t together. Who ever really has their sh!t together, really.

You should not try to get into a serious relationship til you have your sh!t atleast mostly together.

until then, practice makes perfect.

Don't cut contact. Practice.

Let us help you each baby step of the way, if you need/want.

I agree with Iq, don't cut contact with chicks if they are currently talking to you, even if I did imply that with my first response.

I do, however, think you should stop meeting girls online in the future. It's just an easy way out for you right now, and it's a solution that seldom ever works. One of my friends (one of those ones who is way worse off than you) tries to meet girls online and he fails miserably every time. Every time they are either way too fat or they're attractive but just not into him at all. This is because he is extremely needy and lacking of any confidence whatsoever.

If you want to meet some quality girls, forget the clubs and bars - just go out in public. I saw in an interview with Mystery where he said getting up and leaving the house is the biggest challenge a guy faces when it comes to meeting women. As wrong as Mystery often is, he hit the nail on the head here. Literally getting up and leaving your house is the biggest challenge you'll face. The same can be said for every guy.

This is a strategy of mine. To meet women, go to your local Target (I'm hoping you have one in your city). Go to the make-up/facial care/shampoo area and browse. The cool thing you'll notice is that chicks flock to that area like mad because the make-up area is there, and of course facial and hair products are always important to women as well. Often, I will hang out in the shampoo area and wait for an attractive girl to appear somewhere near me. I'll walk up to her and say that I need her help for a second. When she follows me, I'll tell her that the shampoo section is intimidating the hell out of me and I need a woman's advice because I have no clue what shampoo I am supposed to get - "my scalp has been itchy". Usually, they'll playfully laugh and tell you a shampoo or conditioner that has alcohol as a main ingredient can cause an itchy scalp (don't ask me how the hell they all know that).

If the woman is seeming receptive to you, engage her in conversation. "So what makes you such a shampoo expert, are you a hairdresser?" "are you from here then?" etc. It's really, really easy to engage a woman in public. Her defenses are down, and that won't be the case out at a bar or club.

The other day I was at Panera Bread picking up some food for a sick friend. The chick in line next to me was standing alone and wearing cross country shoes on her feet. I was a runner in college, so the opener was almost too easy.

"Do you run for the track or cross country team?" (I live in a college town).
"No, but I ran the half-marathon at the end of the summer."
"I could tell you were a runner."
"How could you tell?"
"Those are cross country flats you're wearing"
"Hah, well they're the most comfortable shoes I own."
"I ran that half-marathon too. What was your time?"

I eventually got her phone number. Talking to girls in public isn't all that hard. You just have to learn not to give a sh!t when you're shutdown because it happens to the best of us.

Get the idea out of your head that you should be embarrassed about hitting on women, and I think you'll want to abandon that online dating service in no time.

If you want to meet someone while you're "working on yourself", this is the best way to go about it, not meeting chicks over the internet. I think you'll find even if you're rejected you're still going to feel good about yourself.

 

[MikeYikes122]

So how exactly would you "work on yourself ?"
This phrase alwayys has the same empty ring as that other meaningless saying- " I am dealing with it ." OK, exactly HOW are you dealing with it?
Just empty rhetoric IMO.

There is nothing empty about that rhetoric at all. If I would have only written a phrase like that, I could see your point.

But I didn't do that at all. I instead wrote him a 700-word post about how he can go about improving his self-image. Refer back to my first post in this thread if you want proof.

 

[StevenR]

I don't know if I have low testosterone or not. I still have a sex drive and I still have lots of body hair. About the only symptom I have is the depression part. I am overweight but I can still lose about 2lbs a week without too much effort.

There is a Target nearby, I don't know if that is really my target market, no pun intended, even though I shop there myself to me it sorta has that Walmart feel to it.
I said in my initial email that I never tried at all to date, well, okay, I tried a little bit but not seriously. Right after I broke up with my last gf I did try that, sort of. There was a shopping area with a Trader Joe's, Barnes and Noble, a couple of Coffee Shops and a bunch of other places. I got at least 2 dozen numbers talking to chicks but never did anything with them because I just couldn't get myself to follow through, I was pretty depressed then too. What I did then was go to the bookstore, go browse by the same section that some hot chick was browsing by, or go sit down in the sofa area if there was a hot chick there, look at what she was reading, then ask her something about it. Or do that in the coffee shop next door. This was all long before I found this place.

I never got a nasty rejection, however, I did get a lot of "my boyfriend blah blah blah" somewhere in the convo before I even got her number. That was a college/young professional area and that is not the case where I live now. I figure at my location and age I will be getting alot of "my husband blah blah, or "my kids blah blah", at least with online you know if they are married or have kids or not(assuming they aren't lying), and you know they are in the market, so I still don't think online is all that bad for someone my age at least.

I may have given the impression that I didn't go after women at all the last couple of years, but I did briefly sign up for online dating last year, my experience at that time was-a 41 yo woman in excellent shape wanted me, but I didn't follow through because I thought I could do better at the time, but I decided to meet her for the experience, a 34 yo woman who I could tell wasn't interested in me upon 1st meeting, a 43 yo Asian lady, also good looking and in shape, could have had her easily but didn't, a good looking 30 year old newly divorced single mom, decided she would probably be psycho too, might have been interested, we did set something else up but I didn't follow through, a 32 yo hb 8 or 9 with a daughter in junior high, just out of an abusive relationship herself, was almost certainly really intersted in me, a 30 year old nurse who was not interested.

A 39 yo latina single mother who also had a nice body, thought there was interest but waited a week to call her, but I thought she was a little older then i really wanted anyway, a 27 year old single mother, nice body but probably had some other issues, made out with her on the first date but didn't go all the way, she wanted to go out again but I didn't pursue it for whatever reason, a 29 year old single mother who was still having issues with her ex I think, but I made out with her a little on the first meeting, she was hot and we arranged a second date. However she didn't show, then calls me later apologizing and hinting she wanted to try again, I just said if she was interested give me a call sometime and left it at that. After the way my ex gf treated me, I wasn't about to even START letting another woman diss me like that.

A 25 year old hottie who upon meeting was not interested in me, a 29 year old Asian hottie same thing, not interested. A 32 year old French woman, nice body, taller then me, okay looking but not great, went on two dates with her and could have slept with her but for some reason(she actually called and asked me out for a drink) I didn't, I was stressed about work and stuff at the time. Met a couple of women who seemed interesting in their profile but were fat and not attractive(this was before I gained alot of weight). Last one, all this over a year ago, was a 29 year old veterinarian, looked good in her photos but I didn't think she was so attractive in person but we had a nice dinner and stuff, she actually kissed me at the end of the date but I wasn't attracted to her at the time, and was stressed about some other stuff. This was in the space of about 4 months, but over 15 months ago when I wasn't so fat. In retrospect it seemed the single mothers, older women, and women I wasn't attracted to I could have taken it further, but the women I really wanted to take it further with didn't want to with me. I think I had the attitude at the time that I could find another one better so I didn't follow through with any of them. I think I was also a little bit afraid of getting into another psycho relationship at the time.

This time around, I really did want to seriously look for women, but now I am having no luck at all, the first woman was a 30 year old who still lived with her parents, looked good in her photos but I never saw her in person because she stood me up, second meeting was with a 42 year old woman with a nice body and she contacted me first(actually all the older women contacted me first), but she seemed dissappointed upon actually meeting me. The third attempt a woman in her mid 30's, but very good looking and in excellent shape, she seemed to want to leave the minute she set eyes upon me and did so about 5 minutes into the meeting, and the last one was the 32 year old hottie I REALLY REALLY REALLY wanted to bag but she "just wasn't feelin it" :-(((((

summary-I had limited success over a year ago when I tried this but seemed to have completely lost any mojo I had in the time since. It could also be that I was using Yahoo personals instead of Match like I did before. Maybe I click with Match women better then I do with Yahoo women for some reason. (I was half joking there btw)
Seriously, without the internet I would not have met any women at all here, except for this cute Vietnamese American chick at work. I think she wanted me and even went to dinner with her, but she seemed to lose interest after I told her about my last relationship. Lesson learned there.
One more thing, a question -when this Vietnamese chick invited me to dinner, she told me at the time that another employee was making sexual advances on her but she wasn't interested, and told my why and stuff, I think that is when I told her about my ex. Why would a woman tell you about another guy she rejected? Any particular reason, that is something that I still haven't figured out yet. Maybe she wasn't interested in me and I just thought she was initially.

 

[StevenR]

I know many of you don't like doing the online thing and don't think it is a good way to get women. However, I am already going with this online thing and was before I got here, and even if I quit there are already some women talking to me that I at least want to give it a shot with.

What I don't know what to do, and wonder if anyone else knows how to do this smoothly with a high success rate, is transition from online to the bedroom. It seems I have been crashing and burning lately on the first meeting/date/whatever you want to call it, and trying to find reasons why my outcome isn't better then it is.

Anyway, I met another chick online and appears I have crashed and burned with her as well, even though after the date I thought there may be a chance she was into me. Here is what happened on my last failed date- met her through the personals and we emailed a couple of times.

I suggested that we meet up fairly soon so as not to be emailing back and forth all the time(like someone here suggested). She was open for the idea, and even though she said she lived in the same city I do, turns out she lives about 40 miles north of the other side of town. I am fairly new to the area so I don't know alot of places yet to meet up or do things, so even though I am supposed to be the man and decide I kinda let her make some suggestions, she wanted to go to a haunted house that is about halfway between where each of us lives. I tell her that sounds like a fun idea, etc. Then she also suggests we go to dinner at a Chinese place before we go and I agree to this.

So on friday I meet her at the Chinese place, find out it is super crowded and there is an hour wait to sit down, and the bar is full. Fortunately she hasn't arrived yet, so I make a table reservation for when she does arrive. However, there is still no table when she gets there, and she excuses herself to use the restroom. When she is in the restroom I luck out and finally spot a place at the bar that is open, and when she returns I motion to her from the bar and we sit down, order drinks, food, etc. and eat at the bar and talk about various stuff. She pays for her share of the meal, but I don't know if that is a sign of non interest because each gal is different about that stuff.

After all that is done we go to the haunted house, but still have to drive to get there. Since her car is right in front of the Chinese place and mine is quite a walk, she suggests we just go in her car, which was good because the haunted house was difficult to find.

Anyway, we get to the haunted house, and she has a two for one coupon. Since she drove and has a coupon I offer to pay for the haunted house, but I did sorta screw up here, because it turns out they don't take plastic(who doesn't take plastic these days!?). At least I have enough cash to pay for myself, I thought it was overpriced too, even with the coupon, but I didn't complain I just let it go and didn't dwell on my mistake or anything(she is a lawyer so not broke or anything).

We get inside the haunted house and there I try a little light kino to see how she responds. She didn't pull away so I thought that was a good sign, and I put my hand by her lower back area and she seemed okay with it. When she got "scared" once she even backed into me where I would have my arms around her. She wasn't physically aggressive with me on the date but at the same time she didn't seem to object when I did kino.

After the haunted house we drive back, and talk about travel and the places she would like to visit. Before I get out of the car I sorta jokingly said we should go to Palau on our second date, and she smiles and goes along with it.

I think the IOI's were ambiguous at best but even if she was all over me I don't know how I would have taken her home that night, because I lived about 40 minutes away and she lived about 40 minutes away in the other direction. I was also stressed because my parents were coming to town that week and I was picking them up at the airport early the next day and wanted to get some rest and not be out till 4:00 AM 40 miles outside of town.

Since I wasn't sure about this I didn't feel like taking another rejection like the last one over the phone so I emailed her instead asking how her week was going and got no response, so obviously she was never interested in me even though she let me do some kino on her.

Yeah, I am sure I screwed up in all kinds of ways but I will hopefully learn faster from my mistakes even if you guys tear me a new one. I probably could have joked with her a little more and played ****y and funny more and stuff, don't know if that would have helped. I actually did do that a little in the haunted house.

Okay, so that is the report on that little get together, and I have another gal I am talking to that is interested, and she is pretty hot. I thought I would put the emails so far on here for any suggestions on how I should proceed with this one. She is local.

Me

Hi G,
So I take it you are like the snowbaording ninja girl then? I like to do all those things, except I would rather fly a perfectly good airplane than jump out of one. I also like to ski, how about yourself, ever been skiing?
Steve

Her

Hey Steve,

How ya doin? No, I've never been skiing. Have you tried snowboarding? And have you tried skydiving? Don't knock it til you try it!

Have a great day!
G

Me

Hi G, I'm doin fine. I actually had a dream last night that I went snowboarding, and in the dream I was pretty good at it, so maybe I'll give it a try. Thing is, I am almost always the best skiier on the mountain, been doing it since I was three and was on the ski racing team in college. So if I were to take up snowboarding I would have to give up my alpha skier status and humble myself and stuff. But if I was good at it in my dream then I should give it a try sometime when there are no witnesses
Not sure about jumping out of an airplane though, that may take some convincing to get me to do that one. What is the story of you waving those swords in the air?
Steve

Her, after a couple days pause

So I keep logging on this site when I get to work. I've started to write you maybe 3 times and have gotten really busy each time. Anyhow...to answer your question this was actually last year's halloween costume. I was "G tha Ninja" hehe So how's your week going so far?

G

Me-

Hi G the Ninja, I think your costume looks cute there is just something about a hot chick waving swords in the air....
My week is going fine so far, my parents visited over the weekend and we went out to eat at the local fancy resturaunt in (my suburban town).

Have you been kayaking before? My parents live on the Puget Sound up in Washington and they have a kayak that I could go sea kayaking with when I visit, and go around the harbor and a bunch of little islands, it was alot of fun.
There is this place on lake N, I ride my bike by it on the (Local) River bike trail, and they rent kayaks and other various boats. I thought it would be fun to go kayaking there.

Her yesterday-

I have kayaked once before. Just a short distance around Catalina Island down in SoCal. Funny...just went hiking in Yosemite this past weekend with a girl that competes on a national kayaking team. Her back looks awesome! Made me want to take up kayaking. Only problem is that I'm not a good swimmer

G

So, any suggestions on how to proceed with the least likelihood of screwing this one up? I was hinting we could go kayaking, which would be an "action date" that shows her I am a fun and adventurous person to be around(something the DJ Bible suggested I do).

However, the weather doesn't even look like it will cooperate for the next week or so, unless kayaking in cold rainy weather sounds like fun, and she seemed to give some resistance on that idea too. So other then dinner and a movie, or just inviting her to my place, I am not sure how to proceed next with her.

 

[iqqi]

OK, I don't know whats up with the whole Kino thing, but I really suggest waiting for a sign that she is indeed interested in you physically before you touch a girl.

I mean, I was imaging myself in her shoes, but with the idea that maybe she wasn't physically attracted to you, and if you put your arm around me I'd be (nice word) annoyed. And if you put your arms around me when I got scared, I'd gag!

I hate to be touched by men I don't know, and many women are the same way.

Whenever guys post on here their field reports, and get to a kino part, I am always wincing. Maybe some of you just aren't doing it right... so I repeat:

I really suggest waiting for a sign that she is indeed interested in you physically before you touch a girl.

 

[StevenR]

well, according to everything I have read here, if you don't make a move, don't show her that you are a man, it is like straight to the friend zone, do not pass go, do not collect $200. I thought at the time she was standing a little closer in my "physical space", and I did not just put my arm around her, I touched her lightly and briefly on the shoulder and stuff like that, and when she didn't appear to wince, I did a little more. But apparently she wasn't physically attracted to me after all.

 

[iqqi]

You can't take everything here literally 100%, you have to use some common sense as well.

One move to make on her would involve no physical contact, and it is charm. It is a #1 weapon for your arsenal, develop it asap.

However, what you just described sounded alright. You shouldn't seem AFRAID to touch her, after all.

 

[ketostix]

well, according to everything I have read here, if you don't make a move, don't show her that you are a man, it is like straight to the friend zone, do not pass go, do not collect $200. I thought at the time she was standing a little closer in my "physical space", and I did not just put my arm around her, I touched her lightly and briefly on the shoulder and stuff like that, and when she didn't appear to wince, I did a little more. But apparently she wasn't physically attracted to me after all.

Making a move on a girl doesn't have to include touching her. That what you do when she agrees to go home with you and you're about to initiate a makeout or more. With the last date, why didn't you suggest her follow you back in her car to your place. It just seems like you're not escalating and taking chances with the opportunities you've gotten.

 

[aliasguy]

You can't take everything here literally 100%, you have to use some common sense as well.

One move to make on her would involve no physical contact, and it is charm. It is a #1 weapon for your arsenal, develop it asap.

However, what you just described sounded alright. You shouldn't seem AFRAID to touch her, after all.

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I won't go into the MANY counterproductive moves (AFC stuff) in StevenR's little ghosthouse adventure. It's a long list. Maybe I'll go over it again another time. There were MANY bad moves on that date. No matter, we all have made those mistakes in our pasts.

Even those could be overcome.

What CANNOT be overcome, however, is the failure to be SEXUAL and PHYSICAL early on. And, iqqi, (you know I really love you, doncha, baby?) you are just wrong here. Withholding TOUCH is a sure way to telegraph that you would be a great candidate for the LJBF deal. A guy doesn't WAIT for "clearance to touch," he touches.

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[Interceptor]

While only confident guys feel comfortable touching a woman first, anyone else with slightly less confidence can look for clues to reciprocate kino.
Generally speaking, a woman who has attraction for you, and starts to feel rapport and comfort with you will often touch you first. Once she kinos you, you can feel safe that you can start to touch her back.

However, a woman can pick up when you are sexually repressed and desperate or simply coming across as non sexual. If you are coming across as non sexual, then nothing you do will really attract her. She will only look at you as a harmless "friend".
Being a sexual man, means maintaining a certain "magnetism". You don't really turn it "off".

Women do touch non sexual men, in the case when the man makes a funny joke. When there is comfort and rapport, a woman's guard is lowered. That's why humor is so effective at breaking the ice, and creating comfort and helping rapport.

However, a funny joke from a non sexual male, comes across much more weaker than coming from a self confident masculine Man who is in touch with his sexuality and in tune with women....

 

[StevenR]

A lot of contradictory advice here, especially regarding kino, don't know what to believe except what has and hasn't worked for me in the past.

I won't go into the MANY counterproductive moves (AFC stuff) in StevenR's little ghosthouse adventure. It's a long list. Maybe I'll go over it again another time. There were MANY bad moves on that date. No matter, we all have made those mistakes in our pasts.

sometimes I wonder if this is all worth it. If I was wealthy it would just be easier to get pu$$y off eros-guide.com without all the posturing and hassle. Women are annoying and dating is a pain in the a$$.

 

[aliasguy]

A lot of contradictory advice here, especially regarding kino, don't know what to believe except what has and hasn't worked for me in the past.


sometimes I wonder if this is all worth it. If I was wealthy it would just be easier to get pu$$y off eros-guide.com without all the posturing and hassle. Women are annoying and dating is a pain in the a$$.

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STEVE --- REALLY---- Women are FUN, and interesting, and delightful..... just DIFFERENT than you think.

"Posturing" and "hassle" aren't what it's all about.

What is eros-guide.com, some kinda prostitute thing? do that too, if it helps, and you have the funds for it.



But MONEY isn't what it's all about, man.






Honestly, though, man: "dating" isn't "FUN."


Hanging out and having a good time IS. And you CAN do it with women. You can enjoy yourself and have a lot of fun.

Lighten up, man.



Read more here. Take it easy. Slow down.


You need a "correction" about all this.

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[StevenR]

What is eros-guide.com, some kinda prostitute thing?

yes, sort of, it is an escort guide, i.e. higher class prostitution then streetwalkers they just don't say it for obvious reasons. Most women are HB9's and 10's and you looking at anywhere from $500 and up to be with one of them even for a short time, hence the qualifier if I was wealthy and I could drop that much money 5x a week to satisfy my sexual desires. I have never actually done this(but know people who have) and I wasn't totally serious about it, just frustrated.

When someone tells me I made countless mistakes that I didn't even realize at the time, it starts to feel like this requires more flawless, meticulous planning and perfection then a shuttle launch, or it will blow up in your face and you will crash and burn.

I am doing something, or multiple things wrong and I am frustrated! because I don't know what it is that I am doing wrong, maybe looks do matter and I am just not attractive, or any other number of flaws that I have . I had a cold last week too so when I went on that date I was better but my voice was still hoarse, that could have done it, I really don't frickin know and that is why it is so annoying.

I didn't even have this problem a year ago when I went on a few dates, one gal even called me up later and asked me out for a drink last year, this isn't happening this year, it is like I have no appeal at all to women, or maybe I was a screwup then too I just didn't know it because they cut me some slack.

But yeah, when I feel I have to be perfect it is more like a job interview and it is NOT fun, this other chick I am talking on the internet with I would just rather invite her for dinner sometime to this Outback Steakhouse down the street I have never been to, which is something I would do with a friend, and not just to kiss up to her but because I have been wanting to go there, I actually enjoy eating out but don't like going by myself. But according to all the PUA advice that would be boring and make me like every other AFC guy.

I also sincerely want to go kayaking to but the weather is gonna be lousy. I just don't see the need for some big production "exciting" date with someone you don't even know, nor do I think it is appropriate to ask her over to my place when we have never even met. I think it is different for online then it is in person. If you chat up a girl in person she has already met you, and if she talks to you on the phone after that it means she probably likes you and knows she is attracted to you, hence it is much easier to just invite her over to your place since you already have the first meeting out of the way. Not so with online dating. But at this point I am at a loss as to what DOES work.

oh, and one reason I couldn't have her follow me back to my place is because my parents were arriving early the next morning to visit me, and I had to get up early to meet them at the airport. That and my place was kinda messy and I hadn't even had time to clean it yet. I am not always the most neat and organized person.

 

[aliasguy]

yes, sort of, it is an escort guide, i.e. higher class prostitution then streetwalkers they just don't say it for obvious reasons. Most women are HB9's and 10's and you looking at anywhere from $500 and up to be with one of them even for a short time, hence the qualifier if I was wealthy and I could drop that much money 5x a week to satisfy my sexual desires. I have never actually done this(but know people who have) and I wasn't totally serious about it, just frustrated.

When someone tells me I made countless mistakes that I didn't even realize at the time, it starts to feel like this requires more flawless, meticulous planning and perfection then a shuttle launch, or it will blow up in your face and you will crash and burn.

I am doing something, or multiple things wrong and I am frustrated! because I don't know what it is that I am doing wrong, maybe looks do matter and I am just not attractive, or any other number of flaws that I have . I had a cold last week too so when I went on that date I was better but my voice was still hoarse, that could have done it, I really don't frickin know and that is why it is so annoying.

I didn't even have this problem a year ago when I went on a few dates, one gal even called me up later and asked me out for a drink last year, this isn't happening this year, it is like I have no appeal at all to women, or maybe I was a screwup then too I just didn't know it because they cut me some slack.

But yeah, when I feel I have to be perfect it is more like a job interview and it is NOT fun, this other chick I am talking on the internet with I would just rather invite her for dinner sometime to this Outback Steakhouse down the street I have never been to, which is something I would do with a friend, and not just to kiss up to her but because I have been wanting to go there, I actually enjoy eating out but don't like going by myself. But according to all the PUA advice that would be boring and make me like every other AFC guy.

I also sincerely want to go kayaking to but the weather is gonna be lousy. I just don't see the need for some big production "exciting" date with someone you don't even know, nor do I think it is appropriate to ask her over to my place when we have never even met. I think it is different for online then it is in person. If you chat up a girl in person she has already met you, and if she talks to you on the phone after that it means she probably likes you and knows she is attracted to you, hence it is much easier to just invite her over to your place since you already have the first meeting out of the way. Not so with online dating. But at this point I am at a loss as to what DOES work.

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Steve, man, calm down. You are NOT flawed, you are NOT weird, or wrong, or messed up, or whatever. you just are misinformed. Seriously.


I don't think you made "countless" mistakes on the spoookhouse date. I just said you made a lot. AND, I said they were not CRITICAL mistakes, but you do need some work. If you wanna get this stuff right, you have to LET go of what you thought was true. We've been through this before. You CAN do this, but you have to open your mind.


Remember, I was where you are now at one time. Many here were. Most still are.

Meticulous "planning" is NOT what you need. "Scripting" is NOT what you need. You need to OPEN YOUR EYES.

The Outback thing is A-OK. Ask some chick to go eat with you there. WHAT is wrong with that? JUST DO IT. And have fun. AND EXPECT NOTHING. NOTHING. Really. For the next five dates you have, just expect NOTHING, dammit. You are RIGHT to reject the "job interview" aspect of it all. Just BE there, and eat, and TALK. No expectation. You probably oughta expect NOTHING from any women for a little while now, 'till you get your OWN sh*t figured out.


I think you'll be ok, Steve. You might make it. Just lighten up, and move forward.


Keep reading here.

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[StevenR]

okay, that is what I am gonna do then. nothing to lose at this point. It is easy to express my frustrations anonymously here, I don't whine openly like this, really I don't.