Am I boring?

[StevenR]

I like the Economist because it seems less bias one way or the other then most other news magazines out there. When I was reading the magazine I was not thinking in terms of impressing or not impressing her or anyone else, it is just what I wanted to read at the time. As far as what kind of women I want to impress, I have an IQ of at least 155, I don't say this to brag but to point out that I am a geek, and I don't relate to bimbo airhead woman much anyway, whether I am reading the economist or not. I am the kind of guy who when someone is talking about some bland subject is contemplating string theory or Chalmer's Principle of Organizational Invariance, or something like that. I enjoy reading philosophy, science, history, travel, and various other geek stuff. A woman that I am in a LTR relationship is going to have to live with that as I am not changing for her.
However, I am not a total geek either, I like some non geek things that some women even like as well. I am a great skier, good enough to be on the university ski racing team, I have traveled to various foreign countries, I am a PADI certified diver, I can draw and paint(alot of intelligent women seem to have an interest in art) and I also like photography. In fact people really seem to like my latest landscape and nature photos that I do. So that is a little about me. I also have a private pilots license but I have not been active with it in years and would need extensive training and a new medical to fly again.

It sounds like, to me, you have less enthusiasm about life in general and believe that if you met a woman, then you'd be happy.

The problem with this is that you place your center of happiness, your being, on the woman. She then becomes your source of happiness.

Guess what? Women, I believe, can sense this...and subconsiously, you are putting a lot of pressure on them. Not to mention, if you did get into a relationship right now 'per se', and it ended, you'd be worse off than you are now.

Not sure anymore. I am more cynical about women then ever, especially after reading through these forums. I used to believe I would find that special woman back in my 20's, and we would be happily married and live a blissful life together, blah blah. With the disaster of my last and only real relationship and all the stuff I have learned about how women really are I am actually quite depressed and not sure I believe there is such a thing as true love anymore. I am a hopeless romantic who has gone cynical after being heartlessly manipulated by selfish women, and this site makes it seem like all women are selfish hors, that my experience is not unique. So on one hand I want a relationship but on the other hand i am afraid to get into a relationship for fear of being emotionally manipulated again once I grow attached to a woman. With my very limited experience when I get into an intimate relationship with a woman I do become emotionally attached or "clingy" and I am afraid to give that power to another woman to have over me.

Also keep in mind that your value on the dating scene goes up with time as a man, and for women, theirs goes down with time. That's why those girls are so quick to make hasty judgments about you; their attractiveness goes down a tiny bit more every day, so they have to be in a rush to find a man. Time is on our side.

Not sure I entirely agree with this one either. On the various personals sites many women in their 20's are asking for a narrow age range usually only up to a few years older then they, some even go several years younger but only one year older, just like men do. I also notices that very few women in the 24-32 age range that I am looking at want a guy who is over 35 for some reason, and after 40 forget it. This tells me that most women don't want someone older the same as most men. The other thing I see is alot of attractive women in their late 30's and 40's will only date a guy younger then them, sometimes significantly younger. I think they are called "cougars" or something. Seems that women are more like men then we give them credit for.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Isn't The Economist is that magazine where governments often advertise for deputy directorships of their various agencies - but purely as a formality before they hire the political crony they were going to hire in the first place?

Sounds interesting!

Not quite Jon Stewart but interesting in a Dennis Miller kind of way...

 

[Interceptor]

Steve, have you read the Book of Pook? The DJ Bible?

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

I like the Economist because it seems less bias one way or the other then most other news magazines out there. When I was reading the magazine I was not thinking in terms of impressing or not impressing her or anyone else, it is just what I wanted to read at the time. As far as what kind of women I want to impress, I have an IQ of at least 155, I don't say this to brag but to point out that I am a geek, ....

Alright, alright, alright... Stop making excuses. You just need to start sarging women with a similar mindset. And NO she doesn't have to be a geek and neither do you (obviously, you've proved it with your various interests). So stop calling yourself one as a scape goat. Besides, I've heard that there are women out there who have majored in philosophy!

 

[STR8UP]

This sounds like an interesting technique that I never heard of before. Is there any more info about it somewhere?

No, i just made it up

I thought I was doing something similar when I ask them questions about themselves and what their interests are. Is there a generic list of potentially exciting topics one of which should elicit a response, or is it too individual and I have to probe her interests or take shots in the dark to find out what will excite her?

A little of that is ok, but it's going to come off like an interview if you aren't careful.

The best interactions I have had with women have been when the conversation is "charged", like an electrical pulse jumping back and forth across two conductors.

With some women this comes easy. Like this teller at my bank. Quite a hottie. She started there recently and usually worked the drive thru, so I noticed her from afar. Then one day she was working the main line and within about two minutes of chatting with her I had more rapport than i do with the vast majority of women I meet. It was easy because we obviously "clicked"

But with most women it might not be that easy straight out of the gate. She might be a little nervous, you might need to warm up a bit, who knows, but for whatever reason the sparks just aren't flying.

So you need to find some common ground or at least something that gets the two of you vibing.

You know what can really spark up a convo and get some rapport going?

B.S.

That's right, bullsh!t.

I recently called one of my female friends (who has a thing for me) on a phone that is registered to my mom. She asked why I changed my number and why my mom's name came up on caller ID, and I told her it was because I was having problems with these psycho stalker chicks and I was trying to avoid them.

A minute later i told her the truth, upon which she said "Keep going with the other story, I liked it better!"

 

[StevenR]

Steve, have you read the Book of Pook? The DJ Bible?

I have read some posts fro Pook, and I have read a bunch of threads from the archives and tips section.

You just need to start sarging women with a similar mindset. And NO she doesn't have to be a geek and neither do you (obviously, you've proved it with your various interests). So stop calling yourself one as a scape goat.

What I mean is that I find the usual small talk everyone makes about sports and weather or what they read out of Cosmo or whatever, gets boring real fast. I don't like smalltalk even though I know it is necessary.
And the other pickup techniques I have read, like that Mystery guy going up to a woman and starting off by saying "do you believe in Magic"? are women really that stupid? Or are they just playing the game themselves by going along with it? I always wondered what those guys in nightclubs are talking to HB's about when they are successfully picking them up.
edit:STR8UP's post came while I was writing this, I need to go now but will read it later.

 

[STR8UP]

Not sure I entirely agree with this one either. On the various personals sites many women in their 20's are asking for a narrow age range usually only up to a few years older then they, some even go several years younger but only one year older, just like men do. I also notices that very few women in the 24-32 age range that I am looking at want a guy who is over 35 for some reason, and after 40 forget it. This tells me that most women don't want someone older the same as most men.

A woman will STATE a maximum age threshold, but 9 times out of 10 it means NOTHING.

The other thing I see is alot of attractive women in their late 30's and 40's will only date a guy younger then them, sometimes significantly younger.

They are feeding their egos, and the men, well, I don't know WHAT the hell they are thinking.

 

[STR8UP]

And the other pickup techniques I have read, like that Mystery guy going up to a woman and starting off by saying "do you believe in Magic"? are women really that stupid?

Yes they are. Or rather, they are susceptible to a man's wit and intrigue.

Facts are boring and women don't want much to do with them.

They want stories and fantasies....anything that triggers emotion.

 

[iqqi]

I am more cynical about women then ever, especially after reading through these forums.....I am a hopeless romantic who has gone cynical after being heartlessly manipulated by selfish women, and this site makes it seem like all women are selfish hors, that my experience is not unique.

So on one hand I want a relationship but on the other hand i am afraid to get into a relationship for fear of being emotionally manipulated again once I grow attached to a woman. With my very limited experience when I get into an intimate relationship with a woman I do become emotionally attached or "clingy" and I am afraid to give that power to another woman to have over me..

Please whatever you do, don't buy into the "all women are evil whors", or "the myth of a quality woman" bs that is prevalent on this site. Alot of the men on here who are "regulars", and even some of the ones ppl look up to, are on some other sh!t. Even though they can't get sh!t straight in their own personal lives, they think they know it all about women... which is probaly what keeps them unable to get sh!t straight in their own lives. (dammit, i believe this paragraph may result in some female bashing on the Iq, get ready to witness firsthand in your very own thread the power of the bitter sosuaver!)

EVERYONE goes through the same feelings you are experiencing now. They have fantasy ideas about love, because they used to be children, and as you become an adult your fantasies become revealed as just that. Including love.

Not every girl who seems to love you, does. Not every cute innocent girl, is. Not every great connection really lasts.

And EVERYONE goes through a period (multiple ones in their lives, actually), where they feel like they will never meet anyone on their level. Especially in love.

But almost everyone DOES. You yourself did, even though it didn't end well.

Guess what! You WILL meet someone else that clicks with you, that "gets" you, that makes you feel high, and hear birds, and see rainbows, and all that sappy sh!t.

Hopefully before that happens, you will learn from your previous experience, what worked, what didn't, what you want, what you don't want. So that you can filter through all the madness, and not end up giving anything vulnerable of yourself to someone who isn't worth it.

The problem with romantics, is we romanticize things. We give too much credit to simple sh!t. So be aware of yourself when you start doing this. Grow a tough skin, lace it with some sarcasm.

Don't confuse that with bitterness! PLEASE don't get all bitter on the world. That is the most unattractive trait in anyone.

 

[iqqi]

Yes they are. Or rather, they are susceptible to a man's wit and intrigue.

Facts are boring and women don't want much to do with them.

They want stories and fantasies....anything that triggers emotion.

Most men speak from their experience. Don't get this confused with experience in general.

And yes, alot of women are that stupid.

So you might want to learn some tricks, so to speak, to entertain the dumb.

The day you meet a woman who isn't reached by all that dumb sh!t is the probaly the day you stop thinking you won't meet anyone worthy of your real energies!

However WIT and INTRIGUE are keywords here. This works on any woman, just some levels of it are different. Know when to dumb it down. Recognize when you don't have to.

Read all of Fingerz posts. He is happily married. He is not a bitter soul. He has his sh!t right.

 

[jophil28]

...they are susceptible to a man's wit and intrigue.

Facts are boring and women don't want much to do with them.

They want stories and fantasies....anything that triggers emotion.

THis is GOLD!

 

[StevenR]

A woman will STATE a maximum age threshold, but 9 times out of 10 it means NOTHING.

I believe you, but I wonder why they do it in the first place, do they THINK that is what they want or is it just something to filter out the rifraff so they only get 50 emails a day instead of 150?

They are feeding their egos, and the men, well, I don't know WHAT the hell they are thinking.

These women are easy? The guys had fantasies about doing their teacher?

Yes they are. Or rather, they are susceptible to a man's wit and intrigue.

Facts are boring and women don't want much to do with them.

They want stories and fantasies....anything that triggers emotion

sometimes I can be this way when I am in a really relaxed, good mood. I just can't turn it on when I am feeling anxious or depressed. Sometimes I do well with women I am not attracted to because I am not anxious around them.

Please whatever you do, don't buy into the "all women are evil whors", or "the myth of a quality woman" bs that is prevalent on this site. Alot of the men on here who are "regulars", and even some of the ones ppl look up to, are on some other sh!t.

My last relationship that I described here, my shrink that I am seeing suspected she had borderline or narcissistic personality disorder, or perhaps both. He added that he couldn't possibly make an official diagnosis without meeting with her in person, but he was pretty certain from what I described to him.

When I come on this board and I got the impression that the reality is this is how most women act and that is really depressing. I never want to see that woman again, she was great at first and acted like everything I wanted in a woman, she was also intelligent, an HB9.5 or so, but after she emotionally hooked me and moved in she began to reveal her true inner bvtch without me even realizing until she had me by the balls.

She pulled all kinds of crazy shvt, including threatening suicide, radical mood swings, and various other crazy stuff. When I began to stand up to her a little bit more she actually got physically violent with me, she started throwing stuff at me, then one day she started slapping and hitting me when I stood up to her, and at that time I ended it once and for all. This is really pathetic I know but I was in another WBAFC state of mind at that time. She turned me from just your standard AFC who wanted to get laid to a way below AFC and it took awhile just to mentally recover from that enough to even think about dating again.

Later I found out she had slept with multiple men behind my back including a guy I thought was a good friend. So I can relate somewhat to the bitter men on here. After I got over her and came out of my mental fog, it was so peaceful for awhile not having any woman in my life to drive me crazy. Then it started to get lonely, and here I am. I think it was lack of options, real or perceived, and being naive about women at the time that led me into that mess of a relationship.

 

[iqqi]

My last relationship that I described here, my shrink that I am seeing suspected she had borderline or narcissistic personality disorder, or perhaps both. He added that he couldn't possibly make an official diagnosis without meeting with her in person, but he was pretty certain from what I described to him.

When I come on this board and I got the impression that the reality is this is how most women act and that is really depressing. I never want to see that woman again, she was great at first and acted like everything I wanted in a woman, she was also intelligent, an HB9.5 or so, but after she emotionally hooked me and moved in she began to reveal her true inner bvtch without me even realizing until she had me by the balls.

She pulled all kinds of crazy shvt, including threatening suicide, radical mood swings, and various other crazy stuff. When I began to stand up to her a little bit more she actually got physically violent with me, she started throwing stuff at me, then one day she started slapping and hitting me when I stood up to her, and at that time I ended it once and for all. This is really pathetic I know but I was in another WBAFC state of mind at that time. She turned me from just your standard AFC who wanted to get laid to a way below AFC and it took awhile just to mentally recover from that enough to even think about dating again.

Later I found out she had slept with multiple men behind my back including a guy I thought was a good friend. So I can relate somewhat to the bitter men on here. After I got over her and came out of my mental fog, it was so peaceful for awhile not having any woman in my life to drive me crazy. Then it started to get lonely, and here I am. I think it was lack of options, real or perceived, and being naive about women at the time that led me into that mess of a relationship.

Well I have to ask... why did you get into a relationship with her?

I don't think ANYONE can really hide ALL of that from someone... what I think is more likely is that people get into serious relationships without seriously getting to know someone.

Could it be you WANTED so bad to be in a relationship, that you jumped into the first good looking from the outside opportunity?

Could it be that you wanted so bad to give yourself to someone, that you did so without taking the time to see if it would be a good decision?

Could it be there is some responsibility that YOU should be taking, and not placing all the blame on her and "most women"??

 

[aliasguy]

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iqqi wrote:

Well I have to ask... why did you get into a relationship with her?

I don't think ANYONE can really hide ALL of that from someone... what I think is more likely is that people get into serious relationships without seriously getting to know someone.

Could it be you WANTED so bad to be in a relationship, that you jumped into the first good looking from the outside opportunity?


He may have his problems, and what you propose may be true - he MIGHT have jumped, but he reports that she likely has a Cluster B personality disorder. Women like this are MASTER manipulators, chameleons, and B.S. artists. I believe him. He got fooled, burned.

Maybe he has his issues, but, believe me, these women can really fool someone for a long time. They CAN hide all that stuff, and they do. It's actually fascinating. There are forums on the web for these poor folks, and forums for their victims, too. Harrowing tales to be found.

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[StevenR]

I told people in my initial post I took some responsibility, and explained that I think it was lack of perceived outside options, the "oneities" mentality that partially led to this. Yes, I am an AFC or something below it, I was stupid and I admitted it earlier, but she was also a great actor, just like Scott Peterson. No one in Lacy's family, including Lacy herself, knew anything was wrong with him at first. Alot of women would go gaga over Scott Peterson if they met him in a nightclub setting due to his "charm" and "charisma" and yes, looks. She was no murderer, but she had the same sort of manipulative charismatic personality and IMO was incapable of what we would call "love", she only cared about herself but she was a great actor and could take on the character she thought you wanted her to be. This doesn't mean I think all women are this way, I just never want to end up with one like her again.

 

[iqqi]

This doesn't mean I think all women are this way, I just never want to end up with one like her again.

OK. This is better than what it seemed like you were saying before, that it seemed like ALOT of guys dealt with the same thing, and that there are alot of women out there like that.

 

[STR8UP]

I believe you, but I wonder why they do it in the first place, do they THINK that is what they want or is it just something to filter out the rifraff so they only get 50 emails a day instead of 150?

Pretty much all women say "I want a tall guy", yet a man doesn't have to be 6ft+ to get laid, does he?

Women may try to quantify the traits that attract them, but at the end of the day she will be attracted to the man who pushes the right buttons, not the one who has the most qualities on her checklist.

These women are easy? The guys had fantasies about doing their teacher?

I don't know. I prefer younger women.

sometimes I can be this way when I am in a really relaxed, good mood. I just can't turn it on when I am feeling anxious or depressed. Sometimes I do well with women I am not attracted to because I am not anxious around them.

Understandable.

I still suffer from mild social anxiety. Before I got help it was pretty bad.

One thing I have noticed is the stronger the first impression, the smoother the future interaction. The sooner you can get past the point of awkwardness (preferrably in the first few seconds of meeting her) the sooner things will flow.

If you are both nervous it's gonna be rough. So for me, it's easier to get her relaxed which in turn relaxes me. That might require a little "probing" and "feeling out" as I mentioned initially.

My last relationship that I described here, my shrink that I am seeing suspected she had borderline or narcissistic personality disorder, or perhaps both. He added that he couldn't possibly make an official diagnosis without meeting with her in person, but he was pretty certain from what I described to him.

Unfortunately a lot of women these days have mental issues. I've run across a few in my day.

 

[MikeYikes122]

I'm going to respond to both of your threads, Steven, including your life story that you posted on the regular forum. I haven't read all the other responses up this point because I am lazy.

In my opinion, you should forget women altogether right now. You have to develop a good relationship with yourself before you can even think about developing a relationship with a female. I think the same even holds true for creating friendships. Guys and girls alike are going to want to befriend a person who feels good about himself. It's just how social interaction works. The confident guy/girl is the individual everyone is drawn to.

To develop a better personal relationship, you can start by not denigrating yourself. All of your posts are completely encompassed by negativity. "I'm overweight." "I have ADHD" "I can only DJ online", etc. You need to stop saying that type of stuff to yourself and instead develop a better frame for how you view yourself. Work on telling yourself things like: "I'm not outgoing right now, but I am working on my social skills. I am a great writer though".

Learn to be proud of the person you are, and if you're finding you're hitting mental roadblocks ask yourself what you need to do to overcome them. Do you have bad body image? Continue to workout and lose weight, or read up on the DJ Bible and our postings here. You'll learn that looks aren't a deal breaker by any means for women.

Are you down and out about not having friends? Make an effort to go out and make them. I know that is a lot easier written than done, but the best place to meet other guy friends is at the gym. There are generally the same group of guys there every night at the same times. Just ask one of them for a spot a couple nights in a row and develop a rapport. Eventually ask them if they work somewhere in town. What do they do for a living? Where did they go to school? etc. This is going to sound ridiculous, but I think learning to pickup guys is a good precursor for learning to pickup women. Get a gym membership if you don't have one. You can work out there to get in shape and make guy friends in the process. I've always made a handful of guy friends at every gym I have ever belonged to. The testosterone and the familiarity of the place is conducive to that sort of male-bonding thing. My dad is a workout-aholic, and my mom and I always joke that it's only because he is old and doesn't have any other forum to socialize and make friends. Honestly, I don't know why we laugh because it's true.

As for your story, it's not that sad or rough. There are guys on here who have become good with women and have come from a much more hopeless background than what you described. I actually can think of a couple guys in my social circle who are way worse off than you. You've got some things to work on, but it really isn't all that bad.

Once you develop inner game and some confident feelings about the person you are, I think success with women will come a lot easier. I'd start by reading the DJ bible, getting in shape and making some guy friends. I know, personally, just sitting with my buddies and eating or drinking is probably one of my favorite past times. Honestly, shooting the sh!t with my buds gives me a huge mental boost and makes me feel more confident - probably more so than hitting on a girl. Having a good circle of friends will do a lot for your confidence and mental frame.

This is trite, but I really do believe the person you see yourself as will be the person other people see. I thought this was corny when I heard this five or six years ago, but I eventually realized it's true. We can talk about women all we want, but I really didn't become successful in life until I started truly believing that I was capable of anything.

It's about internalizing positive thoughts. It's about doing what you have to do to feel good about yourself. Do all that and the success with women will come much easier. (Of course, read the DJ Bible as well )

 

[iqqi]

^^^ Great advice. And it IS just as hard making new friends from scratch, as it is dating someone new.

You have to actively pursue menships too.

 

[StevenR]

I am still talking with a couple of women online, leftover from before my latest dating disaster. Should I just cut contact with them then and work on myself for awhile? Or tell them I am not ready to date yet? I still have the desire to meet women and it is even more depressing to think I should not even try, and barring any radical life extension technology life is short.
On one hand I see where people are coming from, they probably think I have serious psychological issues because of what I wrote about, and that people like me shouldn't be dating anyone. I initially came on here to get some advice on how not to mess up when meeting a woman the first time and it has gotten more in depth then I originally intended it to be.