4 Undeniable Truths About Women

[sambwoy]

All this depends on the class of girl and to a lesser extent, age group.
The OPs maxims probably hold true in the twenty-something age group among club chicks but less so as they get older and develop some degree of reality.

I've said this exact thing before that its an age/maturity thing. I have witnessed staggering high standards from girls around 18-23.

Past posters said I was crazy accusing the media/pop culture, where a lot of this is surely rooted, but I have seen programmes like the stuff Charlie Brooker does on how TV has a strange way of affecting us, our expectations and aspirations, and how we see the world. Come to that, most things in my life make no logical sense to the point I am pulling my hair out.

 

[sambwoy]

Absolutely agree, women are the epitome of veinness, why do you suppose the whole fashion and and body face supply industry is absolutely built around them? Anyone who believes in the fallacy of "looks dont matter as much to women" are believing in a lie. Even look at TV shows catered to women like "Bones" on tv, I have seen a few episodes of this series and they are CONSTANTLY talking about mens looks.

I don't know if this is on similar lines, but on CSI New York this male murder suspect in an interview was almost being psychologically tortured by the female detective that he was an 'average nobody, who most us women would just walk by', just to cause him to snap. Ouch.

 

[Atom Smasher]

This is exactly right. You guys have all forgotten Pook (or maybe you just never agreed with him in the first place... shame on you).

It is very true that looks matter. Let's take away all of the social value Brad Pitt has by virtue of his profession. If he was just some guy that walked in to a bar and as competing against another man who is over weight, poorly dressed, has poor hygiene habits, and bad posture/body language, forgetting everything else, who has more barriers to overcome from the beginning? The fat guy.

Now, it could turn out that Brad Pitt actually has an awful sense of self confidence, masculinity, and his personal worth.... basically has zero "game". And the fat guy is the polar opposite. Will it matter? I don't know, find a fat guy like that and go out and try it, if you're really good looking

The point is that I've been getting the impression on this website that guys want to shift the focus of their pursuit of women from things they can control (like Pook's hybrid jerk/nice guy, the "measured man" and expressing positive masculinity per Rollo's theories) to things they can't control as much like looks. Even plastic surgery can only do so much and at the end of the day, we have what we have to work with. You're not going to get any taller... you may be able to lose weight and put on muscle, but if you don't have the discipline to become a better man, you probably don't have the discipline to do those things either. You can improve your hygiene, but no amount of special body wash, moisturizing cream, or anything else is going to give you a sculpted chin and perfectly symmetrical face.

It's laziness guys. Stop being lazy. No one wants to hear this because it's not a magic bullet and isn't something that's going to immediately garner orders of magnitude greater levels of success. It requires personal investment, taking risks, making yourself feel uncomfortable and vulnerable. It really all comes down to what you want though. Are you happy with the status quo? Like, for real? When you go about your life, have you ever seen a dude who is not very attractive with a highly attractive women? I have. If everyone always paired up in an equitable manner according to their physical appearance, then that sort of phenomena should not occur. But it does!

Again, it's not that looks don't matter, but physical appearance seems to be heavily overemphasized right now on these boards. If you aren't keeping yourself well groomed and dressing at least half way acceptably, you probably aren't even at a game level sufficient to be involved in this conversation. As far as I'm concerned, the only thing guys need to debate about looks are the components they can change. Anything else is a waste of time and energy, and sets up for limiting beliefs that will do nothing to enhance your success.

And by the way, I agree with the idea of having a sense of style and direction, but I disagree that wearing a suit, blazer, golf shirt, ect will make you a DAD rather than a CAD. I dress nice, but I don't dress generically, and maybe that's what the OP was referring to. I get compliments all the time about my ties and the color combinations between my slacks, shirt, and sports coat. There's a big difference between walking around in a suit and wearing a suit, and perhaps the problem is that most guys don't know how to wear a suit. I mean, look at Neil Patrick Harris from How I Met Your Mother. The dude is a freaking homosexual off camera, but he dresses in a very non-generic way. His attitude in the TV show is ridiculous and I doubt he would be able to pull 1/10th that well in real life if no one knew who he was and he stayed in that character, but that isn't the point.

The point is that you can't generalize certain articles of clothing or styles of clothing as making a man sex worthy and not sex worthy. A guy could try and go for the "tough guy" look and screw it up and end up being worse than a DAD because he was trying too hard to be a CAD. Like you said, the CAD doesn't care. He's got more important things to worry about than trying to integrate "peacocking" or some other PUA dress strategy in to his life. However, a man expressing positive masculinity, a measured man, will understand the importance of external appearance in a way that transcends his experiences with women. Do you think physical appearance has any relevant application outside of sex? The guy who looks better is going to have an easier road with everything he does, from job promotions, getting bank loans, finding clients and customers, and yes, also from securing the affections of women. But a real man has all of that stuff put in its proper perspective and hasn't lost sight of HIS mission.

And it sounds to me like a lot you have!

If you're sincerely working on yourself, working on your life, God forbid, actually developing life experiences and LIVING, the whole thing with women will all fall together. Focusing on women is a big mistake because it ignores everything higher and more important on the totem poll... and the thing with the totem poll of life is that everything below the level you have reached comes naturally. If you aim above women and succeed, they will not be a problem.

Stop worrying about all of this petty CRAP, stop complaining and get some work done. The message behind what the OP said may be true, but your value and masculinity obscure these contingencies and make them trivial, if you actually have value and masculinity. So go out and get it. Now.

I rarely quote a long post but this one bears repeating. There's a lot of truth here.

Regarding looks, women generally respond to neatness, hygeine and a sense of style. Symmetry, innate good looks, etc. are secondary.

Also, something to bear in mind... The first thing they look at after your face is your shoes. Face first, shoes second. Your shoes speak volumes to women, to the point that they will always evaluate you based on them. They are shoe-obsessed and if you watch a woman meeting a man, you will see her eyes shoot right down to the shoes. A little style and clean, decent shoes give you a very real edge over your competition. When they see a man who pays attention to these things, they recognize him as a man of self-respect and self-value, and therefore confidence.

Don't think you need to be some kind of model to attract women. They respond to affectations (clothing and style) just like we do (makeup, clothing and hair).

All you need to do is to pay attention to these things and you will pass her initial evaluation, which consists of two potential categories: 1) "Possibly" or 2) "No way". If you're in the "Possibly" category then gaming comes into play.

 

[Young Stallion]

I don't know if this is on similar lines, but on CSI New York this male murder suspect in an interview was almost being psychologically tortured by the female detective that he was an 'average nobody, who most us women would just walk by', just to cause him to snap. Ouch.

Exactly, I was once psychollogically tortured by a woman who I used to compliment from time to time. Wasnt really attracted to her, just thought she was a pretty girl who sat behind me in class and at the time I was under the illusion that girls liked to be treated really nice and complimented all the time.....consider it an attraction lie your parents teach you.

She litteraly sat me down and told me that girls do not appreciate compliments coming from guys like me. I asked her why and she just shrugged and then I said well what if Jeff (a really good looking guy in that class) gave you a compliment. She said well thats different. So I asked her why.

She said because Jeff is hot so its ok for him to flirt and talk to girls.

And I said so what about me.

She said ok, seriously your ugly and no girl wants a compliment from an ugly guy or to flirt with an ugly guy sorry....you make me feel weird and uncomftorable when you compliment me.

She then got up and walked away and said hope this clears it up and we can still be friends.

I said yeah it clears things up dont talk to me again b*tch.

 

[sambwoy]

Exactly, I was once psychollogically tortured by a woman who I used to compliment from time to time. Wasnt really attracted to her, just thought she was a pretty girl who sat behind me in class and at the time I was under the illusion that girls liked to be treated really nice and complimented all the time.....consider it an attraction lie your parents teach you.

She litteraly sat me down and told me that girls do not appreciate compliments coming from guys like me. I asked her why and she just shrugged and then I said well what if Jeff (a really good looking guy in that class) gave you a compliment. She said well thats different. So I asked her why.

She said because Jeff is hot so its ok for him to flirt and talk to girls.

And I said so what about me.

She said ok, seriously your ugly and no girl wants a compliment from an ugly guy or to flirt with an ugly guy sorry....you make me feel weird and uncomftorable when you compliment me.

She then got up and walked away and said hope this clears it up and we can still be friends.

I said yeah it clears things up dont talk to me again b*tch.

Ow. My example was bad enough and that was just TV. My point was just an extension of the point made about 'Bones' and how TV likes to play on people's insecurities by making 'lesser' people feel insignificant to 'attractive' people, not just physically but mentally e.g. the 'geek' stereotype. It paints a picture of TV networks that buy up and air shallow, morally questionable shows, and the mentality behind the people who make them. I wonder if its a generational thing, given that others my age may well be working in TV. I wouldn't commission brain deficient shows that pedal hunky men.

It is sad how these attitudes spill into real life. Many things in life don't make sense to me.
Say if a woman had a job in TV and working on a show where say Ryan Reynolds was the lead star, someone else like the clapper guy might as well be all meek and reclusive, that's the only way to get through this.

I have been like that for years and everyone chastises me for having poor posture.

Young Stallion, we can't help much how our faces/bodies look because its genetic. I had a nose job at 18 partly because I was smarting from classroom teasing, but it didn't change the way I felt. I also had scars since childhood which I got mixed reactions about, and I got deterred from buying this Bio Oil to cover them because its too expensive. Im sorry but when girls look at you they don't care about expense. Its just soulless glaring and/or snickering.

It is a struggle juggling responsibilities and meeting daily demands as an adult with just wanting to get with women. Pains you may have had as a teenager are heaven compared to this. As you have found out yourself, going by the book hasn't got you anywhere.

 

[zekko]

Also, something to bear in mind... The first thing they look at after your face is your shoes.

You're right about the shoes, women are obsessed with shoes. It's a good way to show you have some style and can match an outfit or whatever.

There was a thread on here awhile back, it had a link to a video that showed that aside from the face, women tended to glance a lot at a guy's arms and crotch. Arms and crotch, arms and crotch. It made me think there might be something to the idea of stuffing a cucumber into your pants. Padded bras have worked wonders to draw attention to females for years.

She said ok, seriously your ugly and no girl wants a compliment from an ugly guy or to flirt with an ugly guy sorry....you make me feel weird and uncomftorable when you compliment me.

Ouch. That's the kind of thing that can scar you for years if you let it. I wonder if she knew how hurtful that kind of thing can be. Maybe she did. It's almost a form of bullying (since that seems to be a hot topic in the news right now).

There is some truth there though, in that how women react to what you do can depend a lot on who you are, and how attractive they find you. The more attractive you are, the more "AFC" behaviors you can get away with, before they write you off.

 

[Majestyc]

Very interesting thread.

 

[Naughty Ninja]

I work part time for a second job in a high end dept store in NY and know all about chicks and their love of shoes.

First hand experience. Half who claim to 'love' a certain pair are GUARANTEED to wind up NOT buying them or taking them home and returning them in a few days. (They 'LOVE' them...but there is always that 'but' as they waste your time and don't want them.)

They need to try on SEVERAL pairs, a LOT of the time SEVERAL sizes. from three to even FOUR SIZES. I'm thinking WTF?! You don't even know what size you are?? I can understand two different sizes...but three and four?

Then even AFTER they buy them almost HALF wind up returning them.

And I work with over 40 different sales people in the women's shoe dept who ALL say the see the same thing. MEN AND WOMEN salespeople.

Half of them buy expensive shoes and wind up returning them. Most likely because either their husband finds out or they realize they are buying way over their means...or they want to impress friends that they purchased the latest hot pair yet won't tell them they returned them the next day. A lot of chicks also waste time sitting around trying on different shoes most likely to 'impress' their friends that they tried on the new Marc Jacobs, or are just killing time before they have something productive to do. (Those who are frequent at doing that get avoided at all costs as word gets out between sales people to avoid them. It's draw vs commission so if they return them...the commission is deducted from your pay. No time to waste on that nonsense.)

Trust a lot of these chicks are straight up frontin and fakin the funk.

A few customer's have told me "I don't know how you guys do it" to which I respond: "It's my part time job. My day job is a complete 180. If I had to do this women's shoe sales job full time I'd wind up strangling someone."


I liken the shoe dept to a bowling alley. Rent the shoes then return them after your done playing the game.

Plus side of it is meeting tons of hot chicks everytime you work and making extra money rather than spending it on them.

 

[Young Stallion]

You're right about the shoes, women are obsessed with shoes. It's a good way to show you have some style and can match an outfit or whatever.

There was a thread on here awhile back, it had a link to a video that showed that aside from the face, women tended to glance a lot at a guy's arms and crotch. Arms and crotch, arms and crotch. It made me think there might be something to the idea of stuffing a cucumber into your pants. Padded bras have worked wonders to draw attention to females for years.


Ouch. That's the kind of thing that can scar you for years if you let it. I wonder if she knew how hurtful that kind of thing can be. Maybe she did. It's almost a form of bullying (since that seems to be a hot topic in the news right now).

There is some truth there though, in that how women react to what you do can depend a lot on who you are, and how attractive they find you. The more attractive you are, the more "AFC" behaviors you can get away with, before they write you off.

Man thats not even close to the worst scarring story I have about how I have been treated by the ladies in my past.

Here is a quick example of my many stories:

The girl I took to prom in High School dissappeared on me all night, I litterally couldnt find her. Even had a song picked dedicated to her....which I sat in a chair to after I had the dedication made because I didnt have her to dance with.

At the end of the night I saw her and asked her where she was...she told me it was none of my business. I told her she was my date and I touched her and she said dont touch me, ewe you thought this was a date, I couldnt imagine any girl who would want to be your prom date. (UMMM I had rented a limo and we had ridden to prom together).

Turns out she was making out with some other dude all night. She was a grade below me so that wasnt even her prom at all.

Shall I keep going with the stories? Its amazing I havent been severely broken.

 

[youngmack]

Man thats not even close to the worst scarring story I have about how I have been treated by the ladies in my past.

Here is a quick example of my many stories:

The girl I took to prom in High School dissappeared on me all night, I litterally couldnt find her. Even had a song picked dedicated to her....which I sat in a chair to after I had the dedication made because I didnt have her to dance with.

At the end of the night I saw her and asked her where she was...she told me it was none of my business. I told her she was my date and I touched her and she said dont touch me, ewe you thought this was a date, I couldnt imagine any girl who would want to be your prom date. (UMMM I had rented a limo and we had ridden to prom together).

Turns out she was making out with some other dude all night. She was a grade below me so that wasnt even her prom at all.

Shall I keep going with the stories? Its amazing I havent been severely broken.

Do you think your ugly young stallion?

 

[Young Stallion]

Do you think your ugly young stallion?

I do not see an ugly person when I look in the mirror.

However if I were to look at my past experiences logically and realistically....I would say yes...yes I am ugly.

Ironically I am in very good shape, work out alot, but as rule number 1 goes, the girl looks at the face, then the body.

Another story:

In college this random girl in the library asked me for help with something. I helped her, after that I said hi to her every now and again, that was it that was all.

One day after classes I saw her walking in the hallway, I tapped her on her shoulder so she would look one way, then I went to the other side of her and waved and said have a great weekend as I smiled and walked on by.

She said stop that, you are creepy, you look creepy I want nothing to do with you, please leave me alone.

I told her that this was not my intent and I was just saying goodbye have a good weekend to her.

she then stormed away, 5 minutes later as I was awaiting my bus the school security officer came up to me and said that there was a complaint about me and he wanted to see my ID. After he deduced that I was not in fact a creep he told me just to stay away from girls and not to talk to them.

 

[Naughty Ninja]

Man thats not even close to the worst scarring story I have about how I have been treated by the ladies in my past.

Here is a quick example of my many stories:

The girl I took to prom in High School dissappeared on me all night, I litterally couldnt find her. Even had a song picked dedicated to her....which I sat in a chair to after I had the dedication made because I didnt have her to dance with.

At the end of the night I saw her and asked her where she was...she told me it was none of my business. I told her she was my date and I touched her and she said dont touch me, ewe you thought this was a date, I couldnt imagine any girl who would want to be your prom date. (UMMM I had rented a limo and we had ridden to prom together).

Turns out she was making out with some other dude all night. She was a grade below me so that wasnt even her prom at all.

Shall I keep going with the stories? Its amazing I havent been severely broken.

Damn that sounds like something out of an 80's movie.

You do realize that chicks who are like that are extremely insecure with themselves thus feel the need to get their quick self-esteem and ego boost by being seen with the 'hottest' guy or 'going off' with him regardless of how you felt. (You weren't making HER 'look good' so her sorry a$$ had to get her self-esteem 'fix'.) Those are the types you never try to be your best to impress..because the truth is they aren't worth it as shown by her actions.

Your story not only shows that this chick had serious self esteem issues but that she had ZERO class.

Chicks who are like that are too self concious and self absorbed to most likely never change unless they use some serious self reflection. Knowing most chicks like that unfortunately I doubt it would ever happen.

 

[patrick.de]

Girls this age can be absolutely cruel and this can turn the life of a teenage guy to hell for a whole lot of years.
And I agree that the main reason is TV, media, advertisement etc.
Our society is sick of false hopes and expectations, ideals unreachable and slowly eating our souls.
Like Tyler Durden said, "what concerns me, is celebrity magazines, TV with 500 channels to zip through..."
Thank god I got rid of my TV 3 or 4 years ago, haven't looked back since.
It's been stated a few times but people don't want to realize it, in the 16-25 group looks are usually everything, especially in club game.
You really need to look good if you want to pull "quality" women in a club, the bottom 90% wind up taking home the really drunk leftovers or spectating in a corner, beer in one hand, d!ck in the other (in a couple hours). It's an uphill battle. You can still be succesfull in clubs even without looks, imo, but for that you really need to be the center of the party and a confidence beast. Rarely happens.

Good news is, aside from clubgame, you can score with other qualities. Assets, game, personality traits.

Oh yea - there's no excuse for not being in shape tho. Being in really good shape catapults you to the top25% in the club, even if your genetic looks are more of a disadvantage.

 

[floydb25]

Gotta disagree on the point made about girls choosing natural looks 2nd. It's true that women will give a guy a chance if he takes care of his appearance, weight, and hygiene, but they still prefer the hottest guy who also has these things. Their standards and selection processes aren't much different from ours. The face comes first. We'll probably give a cute girl a chance if she looks nice, as well, but still prefer the hot girl who turns us on, and looks nice. The power of lust and infatuation cannot be denied. Women crush on hot guys, too. The pretty boys almost always get first dibs.

OP: Has any of this stuff happened recently? How old are you? Young people tend to be shallow, snobby, rude, and obsessed with status. You can't let them bring you down, or destroy your self-esteem. It's just the way they are. Some girls are straight up *****es. One thing I find to be common is seeking the approval of these people who once rejected you later on in life - in a subconscious way of finally being good enough. This, too, is why a lot of people turn bad. But, you find that once you become these things, and attract these people - they're not worth anything. All you are attracting is the same garbage who didn't accept you before, and leading the same fake, shallow lifestyle they are. It's not worth it.

So, be careful with the generalizing, and becoming something you might regret later, or continuously choosing the wrong women. You'll just feel even more angry and bitter, because once you become hot, social, or whatever - all they want from you is sex. You'll hate them even more for proving your bitter point, and on and on the cycle goes. You never stop hating these people. Plus, you'll have that lingering bitterness and resentment. Being bad isn't so much an act as it is a result. And, its not fun. Lots of misery that comes with it. It's all pointless.

Nice people don't act this way, though. Pay no minds to the snobs or shallow, stuck up *****es. You don't need to prove anything to them. They're just delusional, and believe to be something special - when they're not. But this, too, is just the way they are. Hoes will be hoes.

 

[Naughty Ninja]

I do not see an ugly person when I look in the mirror.

However if I were to look at my past experiences logically and realistically....I would say yes...yes I am ugly.

Ironically I am in very good shape, work out alot, but as rule number 1 goes, the girl looks at the face, then the body.

Another story:

In college this random girl in the library asked me for help with something. I helped her, after that I said hi to her every now and again, that was it that was all.

One day after classes I saw her walking in the hallway, I tapped her on her shoulder so she would look one way, then I went to the other side of her and waved and said have a great weekend as I smiled and walked on by.

She said stop that, you are creepy, you look creepy I want nothing to do with you, please leave me alone.

I told her that this was not my intent and I was just saying goodbye have a good weekend to her.

she then stormed away, 5 minutes later as I was awaiting my bus the school security officer came up to me and said that there was a complaint about me and he wanted to see my ID. After he deduced that I was not in fact a creep he told me just to stay away from girls and not to talk to them.

If your story is correct and that's all you really did do. That's another example of a chick who most likely if asked by her peers would claim she's 'nice and kind' to everyone to boost her public relations image and add some 'points' with the 'hot' guys. Yet another chick who is in reality an insecure little twit who needs to live vicariously through a dude who her friends would be 'impressed' with.

Same PC phony people who would claim they are soo 'nice' and 'friendly' to others but would pass by a disabled person or turn their noses at them if they said hi. Same people who would look down on a person who didn't have the most up to date fashion as them, wasn't their idea of a perfect '10', or wasn't 'in' with something to offer to make themselves look good.

When you step out of the box and look at things in a distant view you see how fraudulently pathetic and simple minded a lot of people are.

 

[Naughty Ninja]

Exactly, I was once psychollogically tortured by a woman who I used to compliment from time to time. Wasnt really attracted to her, just thought she was a pretty girl who sat behind me in class and at the time I was under the illusion that girls liked to be treated really nice and complimented all the time.....consider it an attraction lie your parents teach you.

She litteraly sat me down and told me that girls do not appreciate compliments coming from guys like me. I asked her why and she just shrugged and then I said well what if Jeff (a really good looking guy in that class) gave you a compliment. She said well thats different. So I asked her why.

She said because Jeff is hot so its ok for him to flirt and talk to girls.

And I said so what about me.

She said ok, seriously your ugly and no girl wants a compliment from an ugly guy or to flirt with an ugly guy sorry....you make me feel weird and uncomftorable when you compliment me.

She then got up and walked away and said hope this clears it up and we can still be friends.

I said yeah it clears things up dont talk to me again b*tch.

Dude in all honesty I would've laughed in her face knowing full well she's insecure.

Then I would've replied: "Ugly?! Toots I need plastic surgery just to REACH ugly." and walked away laughing at the twit.

 

[Young Stallion]

Because I want to make sure I dont use up my 10 posts, I will answer both of your questions in this reply.

Floyd: I am 29 years old. The first story occurred when I was in high school age 17, the second story happened when I was 18 ands senior year in high school and the third story happened when I was in fourth year university when I had just turned 23 I do believe. Its been a while which is why I can talk about it so candidly. These are just two of my many incredible stories. Just to let you know, at one point I had believed that dating was a numbers game and asked out tons of girls, always getting rejected, I have some of the funniest rejections you have ever heard of (my personal favourite was "I cant go out tonight, I have to do my taxes" When I told the girl that she could do her taxes some other day she came back with "yeah but I also have to clean my room" I just said yeah have a nice night and hung up the phone.)

Naughty Ninja: Yes the story was very accurate, my eyes just popped when she said this to me, I was in disbelief, I was just being my regular friendly self and girls used to get very offended by the thought of someone like me being friendly to them.

I have posted my pics up here once before if you guys wanted to go look at them. I can always put them up again if you would like, but yeah I have had it really bad.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/74892745@N05/

 

[Naughty Ninja]

Naughty Ninja: Yes the story was very accurate, my eyes just popped when she said this to me, I was in disbelief, I was just being my regular friendly self and girls used to get very offended by the thought of someone like me being friendly to them.

I have posted my pics up here once before if you guys wanted to go look at them. I can always put them up again if you would like, but yeah I have had it really bad.

Keep the sides of your hair shaved. I make the barber use a one. They can fade it in. Grow a neat, trimmed short goatee. You'll look more like an MMA fighter than you do now. Hell take some classes on it so if chicks ask you are training for MMA. Most chicks love that crap these days.

Anyway, these chicks you have dealt with are the same ones who are living in a fairytale in their own little hampster brain that ANY and EVERY dude who talks to them wants to date and marry them because they are 'sooo hawt'. Looks are the only thing that is important to them because they need to live vicariously through their mystical, 10, 6ft, chiseled God prince to 'impress' all their 'friends' and 'haterz'. Good luck to them on their relationship goals they sound like real 'princesses' who are 'worth it' to the 'lucky God' who winds up with them. LMAO.

 

[patrick.de]

I'd be interested in your pics, can't imagine you look that horrible. I understand these things happen in high school around age 13-17, but at age 23 at university this sounds really strange. How old was she?

 

[Spinning Spinning]

YS there's a woman out there for sure bro. Just hit the juice and grow big, there's always the odd woman that likes a massive bloke trust me.