I'm 40, I want kids

[BaronOfHair]

@BaronOfHair Do you have kids?

Nope: When that day arrives(as it does for most men), my goal is to have an arrangement where he, she, or(if more than one)they live mostly with their mother, while I have contact and visitation with them regularly. It's taken me a long time to gain some semblance of independence, and I'm not interested in throwing that away, just to LARP as Ward Cleaver

 

[Manure Spherian]

There's no need to play at all with those people.

Find better people to play with.

You misinterpreted my statement.

 

[Manure Spherian]

Nope: When that day arrives(as it does for most men), my goal is to have an arrangement where he, she, or(if more than one)live mostly with their mother, while I have contact and visitation with them regularly. It's taken me a long time to gain some semblance of independence, and I'm not interested in throwing that away, just to LARP as Ward Cleaver

Do you know the documented consequences of lack of father custody or situations like this quasi-single-mommy setup?

 

[jhonny9546]

Nope: When that day arrives(as it does for most men), my goal is to have an arrangement where he, she, or(if more than one)live mostly with their mother, while I have contact and visitation with them regularly. It's taken me a long time to gain some semblance of independence, and I'm not interested in throwing that away, just to LARP as Ward Cleaver

What's you actual vision on the relationship too?
Would you live with your gf?

 

[BaronOfHair]

Do you know the documented consequences of lack of father custody or situations like this quasi-single-mommy setup?

No father in the picture at all + Kids living in the ghetto, the barrio, or Applachia/the trailer park has dire consequences on kids: That has been well documented. Luckily, this isn't what I'm talking about here. In any event, what I propose is a hypothetical: Things may not work our like this, and we may end up marrying

 

[BaronOfHair]

What's you actual vision on the relationship too?
Would you live with your gf?

Would be my preference to NOT do so. Given that this is all hypothetical at this point though, I'm really unsure as to how this would pan out in reality

 

[Sophisticator]

There’s no need to play fairly or by honor when others aren’t.

There's no need to play at all with those people.
Find better people to play with.

You misinterpreted my statement.

Can you tell me how I misinterpreted your statement?
You think it's better to lower your standards just because others lower theirs?

 

[Gamisch]

ideas vary on this. back when I was 50, best shape of life physically. at 50 physical shape is still a choice. maybe at 80 it is not... don't know yet.

your right, such a man need to understand in detail RP. 99% chance it goes like you tell, if they do not get it.

a nice thing about kids later in life is or should be that money is not the problem.

older wiser men can guide kids better if they care and want to.

You are right. But my point still stands. At some point in life a man gotta let go of certain dreams. Especially this one is one what's dependent on yet another person.

It's definitely possible to have kids later in life but.. I geuss my sentiment is more about being at peace when certain things do or don't happen in life

If a man REALLY want kids he knows the drill: get a gf and impregnate her.

 

[Manure Spherian]

Can you tell me how I misinterpreted your statement?
You think it's better to lower your standards just because others lower theirs?

Perhaps you didn't. I should have been more thorough in my reply to you. I once thought that having dignity in hard work and paying for oneself was to be upheld. However, others are not playing that game, and have as many children as they please, all while being shameless using welfare to subsidize their children's lives. So I think that those are inherently conscientious but are worried about the cost of children should do the same: take all the benefits you can from the parasitic system.

I also used to think that following rules in the sexual market was a good thing, that if a man is truly virtuous, he should act as such (eg, not steal other men's girlfriends who show interest). I lost two opportunities with pretty women in my younger years who had "boyfriends" but who showed strong sexual attraction, with one telling me, "I was not going to stop you" a week after I hung out with her and had my hands all over her bo0bs and backside, but stopped because, "she has a boyfriend".

If others are not playing by rules or standards of decency, I so no reason to do so.

I do not think men should go near married women, but that's another story and where I draw the line.

Keep in mind (I haven't conversed with you much), but I am middle class, married and have kids, and am responsible. I am just telling how I would handle business if I were in a different situation or could go back in time).

Again, sorry about before.

 

[jhonny9546]

If a man REALLY want kids he knows the drill: get a gf and impregnate her.

That's what most of my friends actually did, but it's more like they were hitting a wall.
They felt pressure from the external environment, not from within themselves.
A friend of mine still jokes sometimes, telling me, "Oh, come on, you're going to be late for this."
This just reeks of another thing, which is what I see with my eyes: "My relationship doesn't work," "But at least I've had a child," "And you're still single" = "You're low value," "I'm high value and ahead in life."

And this is also what women will think of you because it's about preselection and social proof, no matter whether his relationship worked or he was in a good state of well-being.
It's about the "things" you achieve in life.
That's why we see married couples, with kids, fancy house and cars, big travelling, but you don't know they are in trouble everyday and have sex once a month and don't admire themselves.
Then it comes a point they will explode, go back to starting point "but at least they got ahead on life".

Preselection and social proof are so easy to obtain that you would only need to make a list of those "symbols," and no matter your well-being, just follow them, get them, and you're set for that.

But we, as mature men, really understand that those things are there for external validation, to show people "you've made it", but we know and learnt, all you need is inner validation.

I am just telling how I would handle business if I were in a different situation or could go back in time).

I have seen men like this have IDGAF attitude, claim respect from anyone, conquer good families, by being with their female son, and make them insecure and dependent, gossip and give them bad habits, I have seen them cheat on their wives, and do the worst things. They are powerful, attractive, but for what kind of women? They are successful, but are they attracting the wrong life to themselves?

 

[Sophisticator]

Keep in mind (I haven't conversed with you much), but I am middle class, married and have kids, and am responsible. I am just telling how I would handle business if I were in a different situation or could go back in time).

Again, sorry about before.

I appreciate your candour.

I think most people who require Welfare are in a (temporary) bad phase in their life where they have to depend on a government handout. There are always parasites who abuse the system, but just because other people do that, I don't feel an inclination to join their immoral ranks. That's my take on it.

Even if 'everybody' does something, I don't feel the need to join in. For instance, despite their popularity, I don't use dating apps, because I don't think that's the right way for me to date women. If someone wants to espouse the advantages of online dating, I tell them I'm glad it works for them. I have my own ways, but I'm not trying to convince anyone of doing things my way.

 

[plumber]

You are right. But my point still stands. At some point in life a man gotta let go of certain dreams. Especially this one is one what's dependent on yet another person.

I don't know. So many times the nature of changes in life (my life) are so unexpected. changing the entire field, sometimes the dreams become impossible and other changes cause them to be served on silver platter.

It's definitely possible to have kids later in life but.. I geuss my sentiment is more about being at peace when certain things do or don't happen in life

It is possible, I don't know what the upper limit is for age of a man, but I know its more than 50.

If a man REALLY want kids he knows the drill: get a gf and impregnate her.

yes, the discussion is about how to do that. other people have seen and done things I have not. one guy will tell that just do this and that and it well be perfect.

related is what makes a happy kid.. what makes a happy dad.

so many things in the past I thought are evil or angelic... until I investigated and understood.

 

[Vanderdonck]

This woman has a lot going for her. She'd be top notch on the dating market.

But you know how it is... You learn to dislike people over time. Familiarity breeds contempt.

Keeping a woman in line requires constant effort. You must be vigilant! And that sh1t gets old, eventually. More trouble than it's worth.

I expect that, but the one thing that's impossible to prepare for is your woman flipping on a dime. Women can be diabolical, in ways men can't fathom. Read Rollo Tomassi's "War Brides" if you need background.

Their ability to create narratives in their head is scary. And if your manhood ever slips, for whatever reason, you have to worry about the b1tch changing her mind

That's the worst part of the red pill

Yeah this used to preoccupy me too. A woman can always change her mind.

But in the end: So what? Let her. I leveled up and stopped giving a sh*t about it. And also stopped projecting narratives onto individual women because of the sob stories posted on SS.

All to say if you're worrying or pouring in effort on her compliance then you've got some self work to do.

 

[SW15]

It's taken me a long time to gain some semblance of independence, and I'm not interested in throwing that away, just to LARP as Ward Cleaver

I think a lot of men are pretending to be somewhat like stereotypical media depictions of dads in the past. I'm not sure Ward Cleaver of the 1950s is something that is relatable to younger men.

Many of the guys I've covered from my primary social circle in the thread below are doing their 2020s imitation of Ward Clever in a suburban neighborhood with housing that is newer than the 1950s. The children in this thread are mainly pre-kindergarten age right now.

Pregnancy Announcements Everywhere! Life When Your Blue Pill Social Circle Starts Having Babies

Yesterday, I was on my Instagram and saw a pregnancy announcement from an acquaintance's wife in my social circle. I don't particularly like her. I find it annoying to be around her the 1-2 times a year I ever randomly see her in person. Right now, there are 3 women from my local area social...

www.sosuave.net

I have some other friends with children who have reached elementary school age.

Most MGTOWs themselves are married or continue to date. They're male equivalents to "A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle"-style Feminists, who themselves continue to enjoy vibrant sex lives with multiple partners(Gloria Steinem, during her 15 minutes of fame in The 1970s)or, as was the case with Andrea Dworkin, even married

It is fair to compare male MGTOW men to female feminists.

A lot of MGTOW men are ignored by women. Some might have interest in dating, but aren't able to appeal to women.

I don't think the typical MGTOW is a guy with a girlfriend or wife.

Gloria Steinem is now 90 years old. She was able to have sex with many men from the 1960s-2000s. The 1970s was her heyday of fame but she was already starting to write about feminism in the 1960s. She wrote an article in Esquire magazine in 1962 about women being forced to choose between career and marriage.

 

[BeExcellent]

Advice from the old lady:

Having children or not is a deeply personal choice to be made for deeply personal reasons. I have 3 as many of you know. I expected one day I'd have children & I married my first husband who was also unequivocal in his desire for children.

Children are expensive, no doubt. They also require a maturity and perspective you simply CAN NOT have without them. They are your blood. They are initially entirely helpless and dependent 24/7/365.

That means their needs come FIRST in the early years, ahead of the parent's needs. That teaches parents about sacrifice and about putting another person ahead of themselves over time. Yes in time the parent can (and should) re-prioritize themselves while always considering the child's needs and mentoring the child. But this process helps parents become more circumspect and less self-centric than non-parents. It grows people up to have children in many ways.

I am glad I had children. And I also was the breadwinner and became a millionaire while pregnant, having and raising them. My husband stayed home 10+ years because we both felt it extremely important that we raise them without daycare. My kids were never a single day in daycare, and the grandparents didn't help us either. I spent on organic food and bottled water in glass instead of buying new cars or fancy vacations. I did private schools and bought investment real estate instead of blowing money on the most expensive family residence. We had to make choices. I think looking back it worked out Ok.

My son is married and they are expecting. He plans to do as I did, and I think he will.

Contrast that with a 61 year old ex pro hockey player I know. He studiously avoided getting married and/or having children. After hockey he built a business and became a multimillionaire. He is ruggedly handsome & has always had access to beautiful women & a playboy lifestyle. He is deeply lonely now. He sees ex teammates surrounded by children and grandchildren and love; a tribe where they are content in the kingdom they created.

But he couldn't appreciate the value in family because he was doing as he pleased and being selfish (his words). Now he feels too old and that he missed the boat. He doesn't want to be 80 with a teen or die on his children too soon.

His life does not have the meaning he sees in the lives of his friends with families. He has no tribe. He is a lion without a pride.

Some food for thought gentlemen; food for thought.

 

[BaronOfHair]

Advice from the old lady:

Having children or not is a deeply personal choice to be made for deeply personal reasons. I have 3 as many of you know. I expected one day I'd have children & I married my first husband who was also unequivocal in his desire for children.

Children are expensive, no doubt. They also require a maturity and perspective you simply CAN NOT have without them. They are your blood. They are initially entirely helpless and dependent 24/7/365.

That means their needs come FIRST in the early years, ahead of the parent's needs. That teaches parents about sacrifice and about putting another person ahead of themselves over time. Yes in time the parent can (and should) re-prioritize themselves while always considering the child's needs and mentoring the child. But this process helps parents become more circumspect and less self-centric than non-parents. It grows people up to have children in many ways.

I am glad I had children. And I also was the breadwinner and became a millionaire while pregnant, having and raising them. My husband stayed home 10+ years because we both felt it extremely important that we raise them without daycare. My kids were never a single day in daycare, and the grandparents didn't help us either. I spent on organic food and bottled water in glass instead of buying new cars or fancy vacations. I did private schools and bought investment real estate instead of blowing money on the most expensive family residence. We had to make choices. I think looking back it worked out Ok.

My son is married and they are expecting. He plans to do as I did, and I think he will.

Contrast that with a 61 year old ex pro hockey player I know. He studiously avoided getting married and/or having children. After hockey he built a business and became a multimillionaire. He is ruggedly handsome & has always had access to beautiful women & a playboy lifestyle. He is deeply lonely now. He sees ex teammates surrounded by children and grandchildren and love; a tribe where they are content in the kingdom they created.

But he couldn't appreciate the value in family because he was doing as he pleased and being selfish (his words). Now he feels too old and that he missed the boat. He doesn't want to be 80 with a teen or die on his children too soon.

His life does not have the meaning he sees in the lives of his friends with families. He has no tribe. He is a lion without a pride.

Some food for thought gentlemen; food for thought.

Unless a fella is planning to be a near-hermit, what was said here back in '86 https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/052813...1-XfIR7uCp.OdSN8XQITyZ8alMXMVZgBQ.uAf29CZLzKE remains just as true today. Our fantasies of the future are often aren't consistent with our fates

Michelle Tractenberg almost certainly didn't begin this week thinking: "The next three days will be my last on Earth. I'll leave the planet, never having borne offspring, and with my last memorable roles over a decade in the past"

 

[Travel memoir21]

You can always adopt first and welcome a Decent woman into your world later.

Having adopted first would bring a sense of meaning into your life that your looking first so it seems. Having Children is also a Spiritual not just physical and biological.

 

[Vanderdonck]

Advice from the old lady:

Having children or not is a deeply personal choice to be made for deeply personal reasons. I have 3 as many of you know. I expected one day I'd have children & I married my first husband who was also unequivocal in his desire for children.

Children are expensive, no doubt. They also require a maturity and perspective you simply CAN NOT have without them. They are your blood. They are initially entirely helpless and dependent 24/7/365.

That means their needs come FIRST in the early years, ahead of the parent's needs. That teaches parents about sacrifice and about putting another person ahead of themselves over time. Yes in time the parent can (and should) re-prioritize themselves while always considering the child's needs and mentoring the child. But this process helps parents become more circumspect and less self-centric than non-parents. It grows people up to have children in many ways.

I am glad I had children. And I also was the breadwinner and became a millionaire while pregnant, having and raising them. My husband stayed home 10+ years because we both felt it extremely important that we raise them without daycare. My kids were never a single day in daycare, and the grandparents didn't help us either. I spent on organic food and bottled water in glass instead of buying new cars or fancy vacations. I did private schools and bought investment real estate instead of blowing money on the most expensive family residence. We had to make choices. I think looking back it worked out Ok.

My son is married and they are expecting. He plans to do as I did, and I think he will.

Contrast that with a 61 year old ex pro hockey player I know. He studiously avoided getting married and/or having children. After hockey he built a business and became a multimillionaire. He is ruggedly handsome & has always had access to beautiful women & a playboy lifestyle. He is deeply lonely now. He sees ex teammates surrounded by children and grandchildren and love; a tribe where they are content in the kingdom they created.

But he couldn't appreciate the value in family because he was doing as he pleased and being selfish (his words). Now he feels too old and that he missed the boat. He doesn't want to be 80 with a teen or die on his children too soon.

His life does not have the meaning he sees in the lives of his friends with families. He has no tribe. He is a lion without a pride.

Some food for thought gentlemen; food for thought.

I think the only reason to have children is because you want to have them. There are myriad reasons not to have them.

Fear of loneliness later in life IMO is not on its own a great reason to bring children into the world. Either your hockey player friend was being true to his younger self or he wasn't - only he really knows. Can't put your hand on the plow and look back.

 

[BaronOfHair]

Obviously, the biggest fear is that i grow to love my kid(s) and then she uses the courts to take them from me. When i was in my 20s, i couldn't comprehend men that killed themselves after a divorce. I can see it now

For whatever it's worth, what you describe is no longer a problem for men exclusively: Gay couples with kids who are divorcing(many of whom are lesbians)are also encountering the flaws of family court. If we're serious about reducing these flaws*, it's prudent for us all to start getting active in grass roots action to make shared parenting legislation the law of the land, and to stop speaking of such things as if they're "men's rights issues"

Clearly, they're American problems, which invite the attention and energies of us all




*Yeah, you're reading that correctly: REDUCING these difficulties is all that's humanly possible. There will never be a day where a divorce settlement or custody agreement not panning out exactly as we'd prefer isn't something of a risk. Why? Our courts are run by flawed, fallible humans, who aren't always especially rational or fair-minded. This is life, not just for men, but EVERYONE

 

[BaronOfHair]

My close Korean friend once said, “we were having kids while being bombed. You white guys are whining sissies.” I agree with him.

Loads of whining out there amongst all kinds of men these days. Some of it is justified

As serious as the problems we face here in The Post-Industrial West are, they're nuisances, compared to

Humans who were sufficiently motivated still mated, DESPITE everything detailed in that video