I'm 40, I want kids

[jhonny9546]

that is what I will teach my girl as well

I'm very curious to know how you'd do it!

 

[BaronOfHair]

The thing about having kids in your 20s is yeah, you're not ready, financially or otherwise. But if you wait until you're ready, you'll probably never have kids. You're never ready, or so I hear. There are a lot of government programs set up to help people with kids, so that helps defray the costs somewhat

It's not a made of "being ready", so much it is a matter of being more suited for fatherhood at some stages than others. Very few, if any, modern men have the cash for kids in their 2nd decade of life. Those government programs you mentioned have fueled a decades long epidemic of single mothers with multiple kids by multiple thugs in our ghettoes and trailer parks for an unforgiveably long time. None of that s-it ever benefited men, and still doesn't today

In any event, OP is sweating things which are already past, and which are thus no longer amendable. Far more astute to work on the future he wants to have... Most young women STILL desire motherhood https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/...hildren-eggs-freeze-hitched-KARA-KENNEDY.html , so if OP wants to be a father, and he has the trappings of a solid provider, all he needs to do is start pursuing fertile women

Ain't complicated

 

[BaronOfHair]

I like kids and think it would give meaning to my life


Obviously, the biggest fear is that i grow to love my kid(s) and then she uses the courts to take them from me. When i was in my 20s, i couldn't comprehend men that killed themselves after a divorce. I can see it now

You can get meaning in your life by joining up with a father's rights organization-or several-and agitating, politically and legislatively, to make shared parenting in the event of the divorce the law of the land. Losing things we love(kids included)through a wide variety of ways(end of the marriage, estrangement, car bombs, etc etc)will ALWAYS be a risk: No amount of protesting will ever change that

 

[zekko]

Those government programs you mentioned have fueled a decades long epidemic of single mothers with multiple kids by multiple thugs in our ghettoes and trailer parks for an unforgiveably long time. None of that s-it ever benefited men, and still doesn't today

Oh, absolutely agree. Arguably, if it weren't for government interference/activity, the cost of living and having children would be far more affordable. But that's a whole separate rabbit hole to go down.

 

[SW15]

It's interesting that the average age of a woman having a first child has increased from 21.5 in 1970 to 27.5 today. Of course more women back then still thought about making mother and housewife a career.

1970 is when the oldest Boomers (1946-1949 births) were starting to get married and possibly have babies. Most of the early 1970s births were to pre-Boomers (Silent Generation).

1970 was a different time for young adults.

The 21-22 year olds in 1970 having children were lower class Boomers who weren't going to college. College attendance rates in 1970 were lower. These were high school and trade school grads doing things differently than they've been done in more recent times.

The Boomers who went to college were marrying later and having babies later. Though "later" by Boomer standards would still be earlier by Gen Y/Millennial standards and what's likely to happen when more of Gen Z ages. In 2025, Millennials are 29-44.

1970 was in the middle of The Sexual Revolution. The Sexual Revolution started in the 1960s and then became more cemented in USA/Western culture during the 1970s.

I've seen the 1960s-1980s as a bit of a transitional time in the sexual marketplace.

In the 2000s-2020s, births have been delayed. More women go to college and multiple decades of birth control has prevented a lot of the younger births. Millennials and Gen Z have also been having less sex as the majority of men are ignored as women chase sex from the top men. Births can't happen when a good portion of Millennial/Gen Z men aren't even having sex.

When both men and women go to college (as has been more common in recent decades), it creates a new set of issues to delay family formation. College tuition costs a lot of money. A lot of college seniors don't want to be tied down by a significant other in their first job search coming out of college (also common in some graduate level programs too). Relationships might end due to relocation for the first post-college or post-grad school job. When you're spending a lot of money on college (often in the form of future debt), it changes how you approach life. It also forces a person to turn inward and become more self-centered.

College tuitions have increased by a lot since 1990. When I was in college in the early to mid 2000s, this was discussed a lot even then. In the last 20 years, this has gotten even worse.

For the Millennial generation (my generation), we have had more college graduates. We've been trying to get our money's worth on college tuition. This makes us more work focused and less focused on raising children.

Millennial college graduates typically aren't having children until after age 30. It's common for Millennial college graduates to have their 1-2 "Last Call" babies in their 30s. My "Pregnancy Announcements Everywhere" thread covers this in my primary social circle.

And even though I believe men can date much younger, the vast majority of relationships are still within 3-5 years of each other.

Most men in their 30s and beyond can't date much younger. Even getting a girlfriend 5 years younger is a bit of an achievement.

The 40 year old guy wanting a 25 year old girlfriend isn't likely to get it. He'll end up settling for some 37-38 year old woman in most cases and be happy he's at least in a relationship and getting some level of sex vs. being a total incel.

Women have an abundance of choice and aren't going to go substantially older without a major incentive. They are the gatekeepers to sex.

I am by no means recommending having a kid in your 20s, or ever, really. But:

The thing about having kids in your 20s is yeah, you're not ready, financially or otherwise. But if you wait until you're ready, you'll probably never have kids. You're never ready, or so I hear. There are a lot of government programs set up to help people with kids, so that helps defray the costs somewhat. Also, when you are young, you are likely to have one or two of your parents still around, who can help you out - with babysitting, if nothing else.

All true.

 

[Manure Spherian]

You don't have kids in wartime (yes, we're in a war).

My close Korean friend once said, “we were having kids while being bombed. You white guys are whining sissies.” I agree with him.

Loads of whining out there amongst all kinds of men these days. Some of it is justified. If a man who isn’t a hunchback he can take a risk and impregnate who appears to be a woman who isn’t nuts relatively quickly. And no, that doesn’t involve legal marriage, as we know.

I am not high status and not gorgeous and I believe if I were single at my mid-40’s age, I’d be able to form a family in a two-year time frame, going from dating around, finding one woman, and impregnating her.

OP, if you want it, go do it!

 

[zekko]

1970 is when the oldest Boomers (1946-1949 births) were starting to get married and possibly have babies. Most of the early 1970s births were to pre-Boomers (Silent Generation).

1970 was a different time for young adults.

The 21-22 year olds in 1970 having children were lower class Boomers who weren't going to college. College attendance rates in 1970 were lower. These were high school and trade school grads doing things differently than they've been done in more recent times.

The Boomers who went to college were marrying later and having babies later. Though "later" by Boomer standards would still be earlier by Gen Y/Millennial standards and what's likely to happen when more of Gen Z ages. In 2025, Millennials are 29-44.

1970 was in the middle of The Sexual Revolution. The Sexual Revolution started in the 1960s and then became more cemented in USA/Western culture during the 1970s.

I've seen the 1960s-1980s as a bit of a transitional time in the sexual marketplace

Ya ain't gotta tell me, I was there! But it's good for some of the younger posters to get a history lesson.

Most men in their 30s and beyond can't date much younger. Even getting a girlfriend 5 years younger is a bit of an achievement.

I don't know if it's an achievement or not, but I've done it several times. I would have done it a lot more times, except my preference for LTRs tend to take up a lot of time. And I don't consider myself to be a stud, Chad, or player by any means.

 

[SW15]

Ya ain't gotta tell me, I was there! But it's good for some of the younger posters to get a history lesson.

That's cool that you were there. Almost all of that stuff I described in that quote happened before I was born.

Some realities of the sexual marketplace of the 1990s and early 2000s is becoming increasingly less relevant.

I entered the sexual marketplace at the tail end of the 1990s in high school. I was the typical age for an undergraduate when I was an undergraduate from 2001-2005.

It's difficult to imagine that it is about 20 years since I finished undergrad.

I don't know if it's an achievement or not, but I've done it several times.

It is an achievement.

I would have done it a lot more times, except my preference for LTRs tend to take up a lot of time. And I don't consider myself to be a stud, Chad, or player by any means.

As a Boomer, when you've dated younger, you've either dated the tail end of Boomers (1960-1964 births) or Generation X'ers.

Gen Y/Millennial women are a more difficult group to deal with in the sexual marketplace.

 

[BaronOfHair]

Most men in their 30s and beyond can't date much younger. Even getting a girlfriend 5 years younger is a bit of an achievement.

One has to go outside + Be conscientious of his appearance, gait, and language(I.E. Easy on the slang and jargon. Be it Intersectionalist lingo or Manosphere gobbledygook)for such things to be possible, and more and more men-even those making decent money-are choosing to spend their off hours glued to The X Box and binge watching

And I bless these men for doing so. This makes the hunt far less competitive for the few of us who are willing to make the effort

 

[BaronOfHair]

My close Korean friend once said, “we were having kids while being bombed. You white guys are whining sissies.” I agree with him.

Yep. The standard explanation one hears out of The Manosphere for all of this ("They didn't have strong fathers in the house...", "Feminism/Gynocentrism/Hypergamy", "MeToo", "Covid")don't hold up when one recognizes:

The so-called Crisis Of The American Male isn't remotely new ( Arthur Schlesinger first started ringing the alarm bells back in '57. Note the date on this article https://reason.com/1994/07/01/man-troubles/ And this is just for starters ), yet men CONTINUED to successfully mate throughout these decades. They did so even in the midst of war, automation wiping out the manufacturing sector, the worst crime wave in US history(The 70s-mid 90s), mass incarceration locking up men at unprecedented rate, several diasterous recessions, etc etc.

The explanation for why men today aren't having as much sex as we were even in the early 10s is likely far more prosiac: Netflix and chilling is APPEARS easy and painless, therefore that's what most folks do

 

[jhonny9546]

My close Korean friend once said, “we were having kids while being bombed. You white guys are whining sissies.” I agree with him.

I don't. Today having a children with the wrong woman can just broke your life.

@SW15 @BaronOfHair
Personally I found to attract younger women, due to my genetics, usually in the range of 10to5 years younger

 

[Manure Spherian]

I don't. Today having a children with the wrong woman can just broke your life.

Yup. However as I said, legal marriage can be avoided. And a man can choose the right woman. I’m convinced some men DON’T want the right woman.

 

[BaronOfHair]

I’m convinced some men DON’T want the right woman.

Our relations with women are, and have for sometime been, similar to our relations with money... We SAY we want more of both, yet excel at concocting rationalizations for not either ridding ourselves of, or altering the behaviors and mindsets which prevent us from achieving our desires

The resurgence of Democratic Socialism on one end of the sociocultural continuum, and MGTOW being thrust into the limelight on the other, conned several million Americans in the mid to late 10s into believing: "The Evil System needs to collapse... Only then will we make moves of our own"

 

[BaronOfHair]

I don't. Today having a children with the wrong woman can just broke your life.

All the more incentive for us to


-Start agitating politically for shared parenting legislation: In the not too distant past, folks like James Cook had been immensely successful on this front https://www.npr.org/2009/03/12/101833696/remembering-the-father-of-joint-custody We stopped doing what was effective, and we've seen only reversals since

-Rid ourselves of the delusions that any of this is "solvable" so much as it is REDUCABLE to varying degrees. There will NEVER be a day where a divorce or custody settlement not going exactly the way we preferred isn't a risk

 

[Manure Spherian]

MGTOW

Men who supposedly went their own way yet spend nearly all waking hours thinking and talking about women.

I have two kids and am open to a third (we don’t use protection). I don’t give a flying f— about the state of the US regarding my own family. If I had little money, I’d do what others do for offspring: use welfare.

 

[Sophisticator]

I like kids and think it would give meaning to my life. I know you can find meaning anywhere and i'm no stranger to it. Nor am i afraid of being alone.

Why do you feel you need to become a parent to give meaning to your life? There's no meaning to your life now?

But recently i was thinking why not just throw a fetus in a woman? Lol

Why not? Maybe because that's where all the single mommies come from? Getting it on with a guy who thinks it's laughing out loud funny to 'throw a fetus into a woman'?

I think that's what i'm getting at: children light a fire under your ass; they force you to be more productive.

There are a lot of ways to light a fire under your ass without a 25-year commitment.

 

[jhonny9546]

@BaronOfHair Do you have kids?

I’d do what others do for offspring: use welfare.

I've heard this from a friend, He don't care too

 

[Manure Spherian]

@BaronOfHair Do you have kids?

I've heard this from a friend, He don't care too

There’s no need to play fairly or by honor when others aren’t.

 

[Sophisticator]

There’s no need to play fairly or by honor when others aren’t.

There's no need to play at all with those people.

Find better people to play with.

 

[BaronOfHair]

Men who supposedly went their own way yet spend nearly all waking hours thinking and talking about women

Most MGTOWs themselves are married or continue to date. They're male equivalents to "A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle"-style Feminists, who themselves continue to enjoy vibrant sex lives with multiple partners(Gloria Steinem, during her 15 minutes of fame in The 1970s)or, as was the case with Andrea Dworkin, even married