Is divorce really as big of a risk as the statistics say?

[itouchyou]

It's really been weighing on me as a guy who's ready to settle down. I'm seeing someone right now and don't know if I actually ever want to get married.

The statistics say that the divorce rate is around 50-56%, and 80% of the time it's the woman who initiates the divorce. So considering I would likely never pursue divorce myself, if there are 100 marriages and half of them result in divorces that's 50 divorces. 40 of those divorces are initiated by women. So I would wager the probability of me getting divorced is 40% if I ignore all the individual factors of my marriage.

The thing I notice is the following which I believe contributes greatly to this statistic:

1) A lot of guys getting married aren't top tier men, physically. Out of shape, balding, unattractive face, etc.
2) A lot of guys getting married are marrying women with no jobs, or low paying jobs, resulting in financial problems for the family. This incentivizes women to divorce because they get a payout, whereas a woman who makes good money wouldn't be as willing to throw it all away just for a bit more.
3) A lot of guys getting married simply don't understand female nature. They have no game and are basically nice guys. This kills attraction.
4) The women that these guys are marrying are predatory women who slept around in their 20s and started getting desperate as they got older. They settled so they could have the wedding and the kids but didn't think things through long term.

So all that being said; can that 40% number be mitigated by the following, to the point that divorce is almost a non issue?

1) Be in the top 10% of men physically.
2) Make good money and marry a women who makes similar or even more money.
3) Understand female nature and don't be a simp.
4) Vet the woman carefully. Make sure she's not the type that slept around in her youth and tries to settle later on.
5) Stay close to her family.

I look at celebrities who have gone through divorce and it doesn't make the situation appear any better. Guys that are rich, famous, and extremely good looking are facing the same fate. Only thing I can think of is that the women they picked are trash, or that they themselves relied on being rich/famous/attractive to carry their relationship, but never developed any game.

What's the solution?

 

[Bible_Belt]

Don't have kids.

 

[RickTheToad]

Depends

 

[BaronOfHair]

Damned near everything in life is a risk. There's a strong case for making shared parenting legislation the law of the land, in the event of divorce, nonetheless there will always be some risk of the settlement in court not going exactly the way we'd prefer. This is life

 

[itouchyou]

If I absolutely had to get married, is the best way to mitigate the risk of being destroyed financially in a divorce, the following?

1) Marrying a girl who comes from a rich family
2) Has her own high income job?

Divorce wouldn't bother me, but losing my assets and being forced to pay alimony and child support would.

 

[FlirtLife]

It's not just the greater than 50% divorce rate, it's also how many of those remaining marriages are happy. Marriage has rather slim odds for long-term happiness. Consider getting a prenup, so you don't have a 50% chance to lose 50% of your assets.

If you're interested in the intersection between red pill and divorce, maybe you should watch Rollo Tomassi ("The Rational Male") interviewing divorce lawyer James Sexton.

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

What's the solution?

Go in with your eyes open.

Accept that happy relationships are very possible but take a lot of work to maintain.

Be willing to do the work yourself and choose somebody who is also willing to do the work.

Make sure her social reference group and her family values working on relationships rather than ditching them.

Plenty of people are happily married.

It's not automatic but it's certainly possible.

 

[DJ Novice]

It’s always a risk. Don’t do it without a prenup.

 

[Scaramouche]

Hi itouchyou,
Rollo was on the money when he advised,never marry unless you want Children.

 

[New_Journey]

"Hey guys, I'm playing Russian Roulette, 3 out of 6 bullets are loaded in the gun, I have 50% chance of being alive, I like those odds, I got this."

 

[SW15]

If you're interested in the intersection between red pill and divorce, maybe you should watch Rollo Tomassi ("The Rational Male") interviewing divorce lawyer James Sexton.

That's a great video. I've seen most of it. James Sexton has read Rollo's "The Rational Male" book.

The statistics say that the divorce rate is around 50-56%, and 80% of the time it's the woman who initiates the divorce.

The thing I notice is the following which I believe contributes greatly to this statistic:

If you get married for the first time, the odds are against you for that marriage reaching the 20 year mark.

I'll go through some of the things below.

1) A lot of guys getting married aren't top tier men, physically. Out of shape, balding, unattractive face, etc.

This is true. Where were these men in terms of looks when they started dating the woman who became their wife? Some of them weren't that impressive before the wedding either.

Some might be marrying their looks match, but that's become rarer. Rollo Tomassi has acknowledged many times that average tier women today aren't interested in average tier men.

The best hope for average tier men is a social circle. A social circle makes it easier for average tier men to get into LTRs that might result in marriages. Social circles are accounting for fewer relationships, a trend that has its origins in the 1990s and has accelerated throughout the 21st Century.

2) A lot of guys getting married are marrying women with no jobs, or low paying jobs, resulting in financial problems for the family. This incentivizes women to divorce because they get a payout, whereas a woman who makes good money wouldn't be as willing to throw it all away just for a bit more.

This is less of an issue that you think that it is.

This was more of an issue in the generations preceding Gen Y/Millennials.

With Gen Y/Millennials and now moving into Gen Z, middle class + women have been preparing to have careers since childhood.

The women in these recent generations with no jobs or low paying jobs are far more likely to not get married and have kids with men out of wedlock.

Middle class + women with bachelor's degrees or higher and decent white collar jobs are willing to destroy marriages and families because they lack "all the feels".

3) A lot of guys getting married simply don't understand female nature. They have no game and are basically nice guys. This kills attraction.
4) The women that these guys are marrying are predatory women who slept around in their 20s and started getting desperate as they got older. They settled so they could have the wedding and the kids but didn't think things through long term.

The typical mid-tier guy on looks also has a blue pill ideology on relationships. This is very true in the USA of middle class + White guys. Being a "nice guy" kills attraction. A lot of those "nice guys" even struggle to get through the earlier stages of dating, let alone get married.

Item #4 is a common occurrence in the Gen Y/Millennial generation, though it was a thing in Gen X. Boomer women tended to get married too young for this to happen in large numbers decades ago.

A lot of times, a "nice guy"/beta/Average Frustrated Chump (AFC) will end up with a woman who was pumped and dumped by plenty of top tier guys (aka Chads) in her 20s. As she gets to her late 20s/early 30s, she ends up settling with some AFC to get the wedding and her 1-2 "Last Call" babies because she couldn't get a top tier man to commit to her.

So all that being said; can that 40% number be mitigated by the following, to the point that divorce is almost a non issue?

Not really. See below.

1) Be in the top 10% of men physically.

This always helps because looks are the #1 factor in both attraction & retention.

A lot of Top 10% men physically are able to have sex with many women. There's less incentive for them to commit to one. A Top 10% male physically can end up with a Top 10% physically woman.

2) Make good money and marry a women who makes similar or even more money.

This is your faultiest argument. There's a lot of research that supports the idea that women despise making more money than their boyfriends or husbands. This kills attraction.

This is also why there are many careerist women who are childless cat ladies. They are usually never married. Women with big careers like doctors, lawyers, and higher level business professionals are usually not attractive to men in the sexual marketplace.

Men who make more money than their girlfriends/wives are better positioned for better relationship outcomes.

3) Understand female nature and don't be a simp.

This can help. There's an argument that a man who truly understands female nature doesn't get married at all.

In my 13,000+ posts on this forum, the idea that I am most well known for is the idea that most relationships have a shelf life of goodness. No matter how long a relationship lasts, the shelf life of goodness is usually not more than 5 years.

Based on my shelf life of goodness idea, that's not an incentive to marry. I have never married.

4) Vet the woman carefully. Make sure she's not the type that slept around in her youth and tries to settle later on.
5) Stay close to her family.

Things that can help but easier said than done.

 

[pipeman84]

4) Vet the woman carefully. Make sure she's not the type that slept around in her youth and tries to settle later on.

That's half of it. The other half is making sure she's not the type that goes from one relationship to another. If you meet her at 28yrs old and during the last 10yrs she's been in 3 relationships, and you think: wow, what a catch, she hasn't slept around, then that's a big mistake. Her history almost guarantees that she can't last more than a few years in a relationship (her justifications as to why those 3 ended don't matter, facts are facts) and if you marry her then your future will most probably be a mix of dead bedroom and staying together for the kids.

 

[Manure Spherian]

1) Be in the top 10% of men physically.

I’m not sure. Let’s ask Will Smith, Tom Cruise, Kevin Costner, Johnny Depp, Tom Brady, and Ben Affleck, some of the most desirable men on earth who were punked by their women.

Also ask military men falsely accused or had their pensions garnished.

 

[itouchyou]

I’m not sure. Let’s ask Will Smith, Tom Cruise, Kevin Costner, Johnny Depp, Tom Brady, and Ben Affleck, some of the most desirable men on earth who were punked by their women.

Also ask military men falsely accused or had their pensions garnished.

I'd be willing to bet all the women they married were **** tier women from a morality perspective. Every one of those women strikes me up as an IG influencer type

 

[Manure Spherian]

I'd be willing to bet all the women they married were **** tier women from a morality perspective.

Correct. However, ultra-high SMV are not immune. As individuals, these men will likely be or are doing fine. Their children’s well-being is a different story that none here know about.

Ordinary middle-aged divorced men can and have had much more grim stories.

There are manospherian madmen who actually are delusional enough to think they could’ve maintained such women by running marriage game, as if they have more pull than them! Fooking lulz!

Divorce these days can result in:
1) Confiscation of property/home (some men have been driven to literal homelessness).
2) Garnished wages.
3) Bank-account raiding.
4) Suspension of driver’s, recreational (eg, fishing, hunting), and professional licenses.
5) Trial without due process.
6) Kidnapping of children.

Women initiate 70% of divorces, most in which there is no fault on the man’s part, and 90% (!) that involve children.

 

[itouchyou]

Correct. However, ultra-high SMV are not immune. As individuals, these men will likely be or are doing fine. Their children’s well-being is a different story that none here know about.

Ordinary middle-aged divorced men can and have had much more grim stories.

There are manospherian madmen who actually are delusional enough to think they could’ve maintained such women by running marriage game, as if they have more pull than them! Fooking lulz!

Divorce these days can result in:
1) Confiscation of property/home (some men have been driven to literal homelessness).
2) Garnished wages.
3) Bank-account raiding.
4) Suspension of driver’s, recreational (eg, fishing, hunting), and professional licenses.
5) Trial without due process.
6) Kidnapping of children.

Women initiate 70% of divorces, most in which there is no fault on the man’s part, and 90% (!) that involve children.

So how does a man protect himself against losing everything? I thought the courts had to be equitable to both parties, it's surprising that a man can lose the home completely and get all his assets taken away.

Girl I'm dating now makes the same amount as me and has more assets than I do so if there's ever a divorce, odd that I'd get screwed over.

 

[DJ Novice]

One of the biggest things I experienced in my own ex-marriage was loss of attraction for my wife due to weight gain and age. Many women’s body shape post childbirth never returns to what it used to be and age also takes a toll.

This sounds shallow but physical attraction is a key ingredient in LTRs and once this is gone it’s hard to continue looking at them in the same way you used to.

 

[pipeman84]

One of the biggest things I experienced in my own ex-marriage was loss of attraction for my wife due to weight gain and age. Many women’s body shape post childbirth never returns to what it used to be and age also takes a toll.

This sounds shallow but physical attraction is a key ingredient in LTRs and once this is gone it’s hard to continue looking at them in the same way you used to.

That's a good point which strengthens the case for thoroughly vetting the woman and only marry if there's something unique about her and your bond is very strong.
It's also why marrying a woman who is +10yrs younger comes in handy.

 

[Manure Spherian]

I thought the courts had to be equitable to both parties

No offense here; I am saying this respectfully. If you believe this, you are extremely ignorant about the divorce industry.

Not all divorces result in disaster, but the divorce industry destroys men far more than it does women. You might get divorced and be fine considering your situation.

Girl I'm dating now makes the same amount as me and has more assets than I do so if there's ever a divorce, odd that I'd get screwed over.

In some cases, the person to file divorce first and who has significantly more money comes out on top, depending on his or her, judges' and lawyers' motives.

There's a reason divorce law is the riskiest form of law to practice. To wit, some men have had their lives destroyed and their kids and property taken from them. Again, with no due process--no fault proven!

https://www.americanbar.org/groups/bar-leadership/publications/bar_leader/2012_13/may_june/matter_life_death_bar_associations_respond_recent_attacks_lawyers_judges/

If you seriously are interested in the topic of divorce, I suggest you look into the works of Dr. Stephen Baskerville and Dr. Daniel Amneus. I don't know of others who have gone down the rabbit hole deeper than they have.

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[Manure Spherian]

Amazon.com

See link to his book here.