Is divorce really as big of a risk as the statistics say?

[Manure Spherian]

No matter how long a relationship lasts, the shelf life of goodness is usually not more than 5 years.

What do you measure goodness by in a relationship involving children, a family?

The women in these recent generations with no jobs or low paying jobs are far more likely to not get married and have kids with men out of wedlock.

Correct. Considering my career, I have rubbed elbows with all socioeconomic classes. In the lower classes, marriage is rare, and the women usually go for high-status scum. Welfare take care of the rest.

Things that can help but easier said than done.

I believe what my friends and I call "professional girlfriends" can be sniffed out quickly. I might have a keen sense for them because I grew up with several.

 

[Aristippus]

Original Poster,

One thing no one mentioned yet. Women are on their best behavior while dating and their behavior deteriorates once they think they have you. They reveal their true selves. There's the possibility that you might get tired of her crap and initiate the divorce.

If you choose to pursue marriage don't ignore red flags and end the relationship if the red flags are too big or too many. (One or 2 huge red flags can be enough or lots of small ones.)

 

[Divorced w 3]

The idea of marriage is wonderful. The institution under the law is horrible. I filed, and I got raked over the coals. I knew it was going to happen but it still burnt like a mother.

 

[itouchyou]

Original Poster,

One thing no one mentioned yet. Women are on their best behavior while dating and their behavior deteriorates once they think they have you. They reveal their true selves. There's the possibility that you might get tired of her crap and initiate the divorce.

If you choose to pursue marriage don't ignore red flags and end the relationship if the red flags are too big or too many. (One or 2 huge red flags can be enough or lots of small ones.)

How realistic is it to convince a woman that there will be no marriage, and to just live together and have kids without signing any paperwork, while avoiding common law marriage states? Are many women open to that?

The idea of marriage is wonderful. The institution under the law is horrible. I filed, and I got raked over the coals. I knew it was going to happen but it still burnt like a mother.

If you don't mind, can you share what the financial split looked like on your end?










Also to everyone else - do you think that the internet is generally biased towards being against marriage, since usually people who are happy won't be out there posting about how great marriage is?

 

[SW15]

No matter how long a relationship lasts, the shelf life of goodness is usually not more than 5 years.

What do you measure goodness by in a relationship involving children, a family?

I would measure by...

1. Frequency of sex
2. Quality of sex
3. Happiness and other satisfaction perceptions

The typical married man with children under 13 and a relationship of 5+ years isn't having much sex.

Married sex declines a lot after children and definitely after the total relationship time (pre-marriage and marriage) is more than 5 years.

 

[itouchyou]

I would measure by...

1. Frequency of sex
2. Quality of sex
3. Happiness and other satisfaction perceptions

The typical married man with children under 13 and a relationship of 5+ years isn't having much sex.

Married sex declines a lot after children and definitely after the total relationship time (pre-marriage and marriage) is more than 5 years.

If the majority of man's happiness in a relationship is derived from sex, and this is a common line of thinking, current divorce rates do not surprise me. You'd be better off seeing escorts.

 

[SW15]

If the majority of man's happiness in a relationship is derived from sex, and this is a common line of thinking, current divorce rates do not surprise me. You'd be better off seeing escorts.

Men need sex to feel good about their relationships.

 

[Divorced w 3]

How realistic is it to convince a woman that there will be no marriage, and to just live together and have kids without signing any paperwork, while avoiding common law marriage states? Are many women open to that?



If you don't mind, can you share what the financial split looked like on your end?










Also to everyone else - do you think that the internet is generally biased towards being against marriage, since usually people who are happy won't be out there posting about how great marriage is?

50/50 equitable eaten significantly by fees to counsel. Not quantifiable is the damage done to family members who got used and milked for info and pitted against each other in the process, the stress on the kids, the reputational fall out in the community, as she is smearing your name and you can’t really prove it so you can’t stop it - and the years after where you just start piecing your life back together. Mental health counseling. Maybe a diagnosis. Maybe a creditor sues you. And then you have to continue to talk to this person or you get a letter from counsel or maybe a motion is filed for lack of parenting. So you begin to keep notes and copies of texts and emails. You check in periodically with your lawyer. I spent 18k last year to counsel and I’m formally divorced. It’s beyond any comprehension.

 

[Divorced w 3]

If I absolutely had to get married, is the best way to mitigate the risk of being destroyed financially in a divorce, the following?

1) Marrying a girl who comes from a rich family


Divorce wouldn't bother me, but losing my assets and being forced to pay alimony and child support would.

I married a woman from a rich family. If she didn’t have that backing my divorce would have been a lot swifter. Time is not the friend of the man in divorce, and money buys it.

 

[itouchyou]

I married a woman from a rich family. If she didn’t have that backing my divorce would have been a lot swifter. Time is not the friend of the man in divorce, and money buys it.

If she was rich, why did you end up getting financially ruined?

 

[Divorced w 3]

If she was rich, why did you end up getting financially ruined?

Premarital vs marital, and what’s in her parents name or in trust that isn’t distributing income isn’t touchable

 

[Manure Spherian]

I would measure by...

1. Frequency of sex
2. Quality of sex
3. Happiness and other satisfaction perceptions

The typical married man with children under 13 and a relationship of 5+ years isn't having much sex.

Married sex declines a lot after children and definitely after the total relationship time (pre-marriage and marriage) is more than 5 years.

Am I wrong in thinking you have conveyed goodness is mostly from sex front and center even though you wrote item 3? That, with all the rigors of child raising. If all relationships truly should end after five years, children would be utter fooking basketcases from parents going through one relationship after the other? How would people even parent at all!

With that said, I would be seeking divorce or at least checking out if I were denied sex in my marriage. I don’t know why men tolerate that.

 

[The_Sea_Wolf]

You do not need marriage to have kids.

Getting married is like taping a shotgun to your neck and putting the trigger in her hand. She can pull it any time you like and you can't put the bullet back in the gun.

If you need to have kids, negotiate with her, set up a parenting plan before the children are conceived, put metrics in there coupled to a burden of performance, having a legally binding agreement written up by an attorney will solve any issues you may have with family court because if she does file and try to take the kids from you, you already have an agreement.

Things I would include are that your children will always live in your home, if she is living in your home, you will be the only man in her life, if she decides to leave she will not bring other men around your children.

You have to take the upper hand.

 

[plumber]

You do not need marriage to have kids.

Getting married is like taping a shotgun to your neck and putting the trigger in her hand. She can pull it any time you like and you can't put the bullet back in the gun.

If you need to have kids, negotiate with her, set up a parenting plan before the children are conceived, put metrics in there coupled to a burden of performance, having a legally binding agreement written up by an attorney will solve any issues you may have with family court because if she does file and try to take the kids from you, you already have an agreement.

Things I would include are that your children will always live in your home, if she is living in your home, you will be the only man in her life, if she decides to leave she will not bring other men around your children.

You have to take the upper hand.

Do you suggest a real notarized contract with these conditions? If yes this would setup a civil case, not a criminal case.

 

[The_Sea_Wolf]

Do you suggest a real notarized contract with these conditions? If yes this would setup a civil case, not a criminal case.

It is always a civil case either way unless you actually do something illegal, or she tries to make it up.

A good lawyer will also have a provision for standards of conduct in there, meaning if she tries to file false charges on you, you automatically get custody, and she agrees to pay your court costs if she challenges it.

This is the sort of thing you need to speak to an attorney about because every state is different.

Also you need to be aware of common law marriages, she may try to use this to circumvent the process.

 

[itouchyou]

You do not need marriage to have kids.

Getting married is like taping a shotgun to your neck and putting the trigger in her hand. She can pull it any time you like and you can't put the bullet back in the gun.

If you need to have kids, negotiate with her, set up a parenting plan before the children are conceived, put metrics in there coupled to a burden of performance, having a legally binding agreement written up by an attorney will solve any issues you may have with family court because if she does file and try to take the kids from you, you already have an agreement.

Things I would include are that your children will always live in your home, if she is living in your home, you will be the only man in her life, if she decides to leave she will not bring other men around your children.

You have to take the upper hand.

This sounds great, but why would any woman agree to give you all the leverage? Presumably that's what your post sounds like.

 

[Divorced w 3]

This sounds great, but why would any woman agree to give you all the leverage? Presumably that's what your post sounds like.

Marriage shouldn’t be leverage. Two mature adults should be able to define their future on their own terms. You can have the ceremony and let everyone think you signed the paper.

 

[Manure Spherian]

This sounds great, but why would any woman agree to give you all the leverage? Presumably that's what your post sounds like.

Most will not. However some will do that and put up with a whole lot for high-status men.

 

[itouchyou]

Marriage shouldn’t be leverage. Two mature adults should be able to define their future on their own terms. You can have the ceremony and let everyone think you signed the paper.

So if hypothetically you do a prenup like this, and you have your ceremony without signing anything, and you aren't in a common law state, you're telling me that you can avoid this hassle altogether?

I think I could convince a woman of that because that sounds reasonable.

 

[Divorced w 3]

So if hypothetically you do a prenup like this, and you have your ceremony without signing anything, and you aren't in a common law state, you're telling me that you can avoid this hassle altogether?

I think I could convince a woman of that because that sounds reasonable.

Yup. James Sexton’s idea, not mine. Genius in my opinion. I know a couple that had kids that didn’t know for 15 years that they weren’t married.