What would you estimate your rejection rate is?

[GoodMan32]

Then it'd behoove you to get past that fear, isn't it? You've mentioned you weren't satisfied with your most recent shrink: Find yourself another one, preferably one who's been trained in the empirically validated approaches(I.E. Cognitive Behavioral Therapy in all of it's formulations)and who doesn't hesitate to be brutally honest with his(or her) clients. Also, read some books on the subject, take notes, and practice everything you've learned on a regular basis


"That's why I prefer older (which comes with its own challenges, as a lot of older broads will immediately disqualify me solely based on my age)"

The primary challenge being that most heterosexual women find men decades younger than themselves less appealing than The IDF and Hamas find the thought of spending the day together at Disneyland right now. All the more incentive for you to get off this fever dream, and start rolling with reality, by pursing women your own age and younger


"Unreal. I'm 33; not 20. I shouldn't face ageism for being "too young" anymore"

And I, as a darker skinned man who's descended from immigrants, SHOULDN'T encounter racial/ethnic prejudice occasionally. Alas, everyone is entitled to their own beliefs, and there's little I can do to "fix" a restaurateur who ignores me when I walk through the door, yet greets every pale face with a smile. Thus, I leave and patronize establishments run by less ignorant and philistine operators

Older women don't typically find you/younger gents more generally attractive, because they want a leader they feel comfortable submitting to, instead of another child to look after? Start pursuing women who are more amenable to guys in your age bracket

Here at SS, we have more than a couple of regulars who are older yet successfully snagged 19 year olds... There's no credible excuse for you, a young guy who's apparently fairly attractive, NOT succeeding

No amount of therapy will change the fact I'd seriously end my existence over a pregnancy.

That's what it all boils down to: My phobia of pregnancy is more intense than the vast majority of men because the stakes are a lot higher for me. The typical man who doesn't want kids would simply be displeased (but ultimately get over it) if he impregnated a broad.

Calling me "decades" younger than my preferred age cohort is a major exaggeration on your part (and I've explained this to you before). While I'm willing to go as high as 60s (which really is decades older than me), I'm only a decade and change younger than a 45 year old (the cutoff of where my preference starts)

To put it into perspective: A few months from now, there will be 80s babies turning 45. I'm an early 90s baby. The gap between myself and a 45 year old broad is rapidly narrowing.

To address your racism example, all races face racism. I have a pale complexion. I look like the type of man you'd find in one of those memes that glorifies the 1950s. The immigrants in my family were from my great, 2nd great, and 3rd great-grandparent generations (in other words, my family has been here for ages). Yet not only have I faced racism/disrespect for the color of my skin; I've even been in positions where I could have died for the color of my skin.

A woman wanting a leader made sense a few generations ago (because back then, a woman was extremely limited in terms of earning a living). With all the careerist broads in 2024, on the other hand, a woman no longer requires a leader. There's a reason the cougar thing, basically nonexistent in 1924, exists in 2024 (even if not as common as I'd like)

As for older men on here banging 19 year olds, @SW15 is probably very interested in hearing their techniques. I, on the other hand, have no interest in banging a 19 year old. There's a decent chance even a 19 year old's mom is younger than I'd prefer.

 

[GoodMan32]

You can be dramatic about that, but for humanity that would be two flies with one stone, especially if your progeny is properly aborted after your demise.

In all seriousness, I agree my progeny would be better off aborted. My genes aren't worthy of getting passed on.

 

[BaronOfHair]

No amount of therapy will change the fact I'd seriously end my existence over a pregnancy.

That's what it all boils down to: My phobia of pregnancy is more intense than the vast majority of men because the stakes are a lot higher for me. The typical man who doesn't want kids would simply be displeased (but ultimately get over it) if he impregnated a broad.

Calling me "decades" younger than my preferred age cohort is a major exaggeration on your part (and I've explained this to you before). While I'm willing to go as high as 60s (which really is decades older than me), I'm only a decade and change younger than a 45 year old (the cutoff of where my preference starts)

To put it into perspective: A few months from now, there will be 80s babies turning 45. I'm an early 90s baby. The gap between myself and a 45 year old broad is rapidly narrowing.

To address your racism example, all races face racism. I have a pale complexion. I look like the type of man you'd find in one of those memes that glorifies the 1950s. The immigrants in my family were from my great, 2nd great, and 3rd great-grandparent generations (in other words, my family has been here for ages). Yet not only have I faced racism/disrespect for the color of my skin; I've even been in positions where I could have died for the color of my skin.

A woman wanting a leader made sense a few generations ago (because back then, a woman was extremely limited in terms of earning a living). With all the careerist broads in 2024, on the other hand, a woman no longer requires a leader. There's a reason the cougar thing, basically nonexistent in 1924, exists in 2024 (even if not as common as I'd like)

As for older men on here banging 19 year olds, @SW15 is probably very interested in hearing their techniques. I, on the other hand, have no interest in banging a 19 year old. There's a decent chance even a 19 year old's mom is younger than I'd prefer.

At least one woman in your "preferred age bracket"* has recently expressed to you that gals in this demographic generally have no desire for much younger men. Persisting with this fantasy is more absurd than continuously flapping one's arms then being disappointed that you're not becoming airborne


*As you say, it's not even that you have a fetish for modern day Betty White equivalents, so much as you've manufactured this exagerrated fantasy of impregnating a gal, even if you're wearing a rubber and she's on The Pill, and our now desperately clinging to it. This isn't even a problem unique to autists, hoss... Several million Americans engage in this sort of nonsense(Manufacturing a doomsday fantasy, and refusing to get the fu-k off it, that is) after each and every Presidential election

You all make a choice to be miserable

 

[GoodMan32]

At least one woman in your "preferred age bracket"* has recently expressed to you that gals in this demographic generally have no desire for much younger men. Persisting with this fantasy is more absurd than continuously flapping one's arms then being disappointed that you're not becoming airborne

Umm, she said she personally prefers a guy closer in age to her. But she also gave me the pointer to hide my age from an older woman (the idea being: if I allow an older woman to develop an attraction to my looks/inner qualities, and then the older broad finds out my age, the older broad is more likely to let my age slide)

What she said was a lot of older broads would immediately disqualify me if they knew my age right off the bat.

If she thought the whole thing was futile, she wouldn't have given me critiques of how to make my business card as appealing as possible to an older woman.

 

[BaronOfHair]

What she said was a lot of older broads would immediately disqualify me if they knew my age right off the bat

Yeah, women in this age bracket have birthed and sometimes raised kids already, and have no desire to do so again. Signs of youth, innocence, and fertility aren't what draw women to men. If this were so, there'd be millions of female counterparts to George Clooney, Brad Pitt, Idris Elba, Denzel Washington, Antonio Banderas, and Sean Connery

But there are 0. Demi Moore getting naked in The Substance didn't yield her anything more than a few journalists remarking "She looks great, FOR HER AGE, even though her acting remains as stilted as ever"

 

[SW15]

As for older men on here banging 19 year olds, @SW15 is probably very interested in hearing their techniques.

I would be interested in banging a 19 year old right now. It's not easy for a late 30s/early 40 guy to bang an 18-22 year old.

she also gave me the pointer to hide my age from an older woman (the idea being: if I allow an older woman to develop an attraction to my looks/inner qualities, and then the older broad finds out my age, the older broad is more likely to let my age slide)

What she said was a lot of older broads would immediately disqualify me if they knew my age right off the bat.

You have to realize that the older women who want to bang younger guys aren't looking for a man in their early to mid 30s either.

They are typically looking for a man under 30 and often under 25.

Like younger women, they are looking for a "hot guy". That's often defined as 6'0"+, fit/muscular guy. They might also go for a slightly above average guy if they can't get a top tier 'Chad' type.

You are going to get more women interested in you by seeking women 27-33 right now than 45+. Women 45+ are looking for men 45+ in most cases and maybe an exciting short tryst with a man under 30. You're not want those women want in any way.

A woman wanting a leader made sense a few generations ago (because back then, a woman was extremely limited in terms of earning a living). With all the careerist broads in 2024, on the other hand, a woman no longer requires a leader. There's a reason the cougar thing, basically nonexistent in 1924, exists in 2024 (even if not as common as I'd like)

The problem is that you're thinking about this like a man. 100 years of cultural change is not going to change thousands of years of biology. You're still going to need to display some masculine leadership traits.

A few months from now, there will be 80s babies turning 45. I'm an early 90s baby. The gap between myself and a 45 year old broad is rapidly narrowing.

A woman born in 1980 turns 45 in 2025.

The typical woman born in 1980 is going to have way more in common with a man born between 1975-1980 than a man born between 1990-1994.

I have more in common with women born in 1980 than you do. I'm not interested in dating women born in 1980.

45 year old women will be most interested in dating you when you are 45. If you really want to date 45 year old women, wait until you are 45-55 and you'll have 45 year old woman options.

 

[BaronOfHair]

I would be interested in banging a 19 year old right now. It's not easy for a late 30s/early 40 guy to bang an 18-22 year old.



You have to realize that the older women who want to bang younger guys aren't looking for a man in their early to mid 30s either.

They are typically looking for a man under 30 and often under 25.

Like younger women, they are looking for a "hot guy". That's often defined as 6'0"+, fit/muscular guy. They might also go for a slightly above average guy if they can't get a top tier 'Chad' type.

You are going to get more women interested in you by seeking women 27-33 right now than 45+. Women 45+ are looking for men 45+ in most cases and maybe an exciting short tryst with a man under 30. You're not want those women want in any way.



The problem is that you're thinking about this like a man. 100 years of cultural change is not going to change thousands of years of biology. You're still going to need to display some masculine leadership traits.



A woman born in 1980 turns 45 in 2025.

The typical woman born in 1980 is going to have way more in common with a man born between 1975-1980 than a man born between 1990-1994.

I have more in common with women born in 1980 than you do. I'm not interested in dating women born in 1980.

45 year old women will be most interested in dating you when you are 45. If you really want to date 45 year old women, wait until you are 45-55 and you'll have 45 year old woman options.

GM really needs to get a skillful shrink, at least pretend to be interested in what the shrink says, and be willing to do the sometimes uncomfortable work of investigating one's own thoughts and beliefs/modifying one's behaviors

He's not in a place to hear it right now though, and this is frankly reflective of a larger ailment in our civilization today... A sizeable chunk of The English Speaking World are in the market for someone who's "not going to invalidate their lived experience", Aka. Someone who's never going to so much as imply that the story they've been telling themselves for eons now may not be The Gospel Truth

 

[GoodMan32]

I would be interested in banging a 19 year old right now. It's not easy for a late 30s/early 40 guy to bang an 18-22 year old.



You have to realize that the older women who want to bang younger guys aren't looking for a man in their early to mid 30s either.

They are typically looking for a man under 30 and often under 25.

Like younger women, they are looking for a "hot guy". That's often defined as 6'0"+, fit/muscular guy. They might also go for a slightly above average guy if they can't get a top tier 'Chad' type.

You are going to get more women interested in you by seeking women 27-33 right now than 45+. Women 45+ are looking for men 45+ in most cases and maybe an exciting short tryst with a man under 30. You're not want those women want in any way.



The problem is that you're thinking about this like a man. 100 years of cultural change is not going to change thousands of years of biology. You're still going to need to display some masculine leadership traits.



A woman born in 1980 turns 45 in 2025.

The typical woman born in 1980 is going to have way more in common with a man born between 1975-1980 than a man born between 1990-1994.

I have more in common with women born in 1980 than you do. I'm not interested in dating women born in 1980.

45 year old women will be most interested in dating you when you are 45. If you really want to date 45 year old women, wait until you are 45-55 and you'll have 45 year old woman options.

How interesting that we both struggle to get the age cohort we really want, only for different reasons (in your case, your preferred 18-22 age cohort largely thinks you're too old; in my case, my preferred age cohort largely thinks I'm too young)

I know it's been said before on this forum that if an older woman goes to the hassle of getting with a younger guy, she's going to want an early 20s boytoy (not a 33 year old man). As a matter of fact, even though I didn't ask my next door neighbor, I've asked a few 45+ broads about the topic. Without mentioning this forum, I essentially said "Some other men I know told me if a 45+ woman goes for a younger guy, she'd prefer an early 20-something over a man my age. Do you think that's that true?"

The answer I got the few times I asked that question was always to the effect of "While I wouldn't prefer either, I'd pick the 33 year old if I had to pick. An early 20-something is way too young; I have kids that age"

I understand there's still a sizable gap with a woman born in 1980. My point is the gap is at least narrowing. The married woman I had the affair with back when I was 23 was born in 1969. I have way more in common with a 1980 woman than a 1969 woman.

On that note, 23 year old me was an example of an older woman settling for a merely above-average younger guy because she couldn't get a Chad.

A poster on here suggested I maybe lie about my age (and claim to be 40), as an attempt to more easily get with my preferred age bracket. In all seriousness, I'm pretty sure I could pull off 40. But I ultimately declined the idea, as the truth would come out eventually (plus, my pop culture references would give away that I wasn't born in 83/84)

 

[SW15]

GM really needs to get a skillful shrink, at least pretend to be interested in what the shrink says, and be willing to do the sometimes uncomfortable work of investigating one's own thoughts and beliefs/modifying one's behaviors

I agree with this assessment.

I find that a lot of psychologists aren't as good at helping single men, especially single men with dating problems.

Many psychologists/psychiatrists/counselors are either beta males or heterosexual females. Neither is well equipped to handle a male with dating problems.

It is difficult to find a good psychotherapist to work with.

Psychotherapy is limited in what it can do to fix dating problems. Many dating problems are more sales/marketing type problems than psychotherapy problems. Psychotherapy will rarely make someone a better cold approacher in real life or an app swiper.

Psychotherapy tends to make a difference later on in interactions. Someone could make an argument that they might help with conversion % of first date to second dates, but I would somewhat doubt that myself.

How interesting that we both struggle to get the age cohort we really want, only for different reasons (in your case, your preferred 18-22 age cohort largely thinks you're too old; in my case, my preferred age cohort largely thinks I'm too young)

In general, 18-22 year olds would think I'm too old. I rarely interact with 18-22 year olds. I probably need more interactions with that group. I see some 21-22 year olds at bars. The youngest women I tend to interact with lately are 25-29 year olds.

I find 30 something women often physically attractive but they are post peak. The typical 35 year old woman doesn't compete well with a 25 year old.

A poster on here suggested I maybe lie about my age (and claim to be 40), as an attempt to more easily get with my preferred age bracket. In all seriousness, I'm pretty sure I could pull off 40. But I ultimately declined the idea, as the truth would come out eventually (plus, my pop culture references would give away that I wasn't born in 83/84)

Pretending you are 40 might work. The problem is that older women are rarely down for same night sex from a bar. Women who are 33+ tend to have higher levels of ASD (Anti-Slut Defense). A 35 year old woman who might have been down for a one night stand when she was 25 and intoxicated at a bar is going to be less likely to be down for a one night stand. 35-39 year old women will typically make 35-39 year old men work more to get their pussie. They are going to be more relationship oriented with men close to their own age.

If you were pretending to be 40, I doubt you could keep up the act long enough to complete the slower seduction that a 40 something would require.

Pop culture references are so overrated. I don't think similarity in pop culture experiences has made any difference in who I have had sex with. I have tended to have sex with women near my own age but I've had more interactions with women close to my own age. Additionally, when I used swipe apps/dating websites in the past, women who swiped right on me swiped right probably because of our similarity in ages. I never did lie about my age on apps/websites.

I think it is best to embrace being 33 and focus on sex with 25-32 year olds.

 

[SW15]

We've gotten too far away from the topic of rejection rate.

Most in-person stranger approachers are going to have elevated rejection rates. Rejection rates of 90%+ are not uncommon.

App swipers typically have match rates that are less than 1% if they are middle of the bell curve men. In order to have an acceptable match rate on right swipes, a man typically needs to be 90th percentile +. 6'0"+ and fit/muscular is a minimum. 6'0"+, fit/muscular, and displaying status symbol possessions is even better for getting good match rates on right swipes.

If a man wants to reduce his rejection rate, developing a social circle and getting social circle introductions is the way to go. Daygaming in tight knit circles can help. Approaching strangers in general has a high rejection rate. Having a 'Chad' tier physique is the best way to reduce rejection rate when approaching strangers.

 

[GoodMan32]

I agree with this assessment.

I find that a lot of psychologists aren't as good at helping single men, especially single men with dating problems.

Many psychologists/psychiatrists/counselors are either beta males or heterosexual females. Neither is well equipped to handle a male with dating problems.

It is difficult to find a good psychotherapist to work with.

Psychotherapy is limited in what it can do to fix dating problems. Many dating problems are more sales/marketing type problems than psychotherapy problems. Psychotherapy will rarely make someone a better cold approacher in real life or an app swiper.

Psychotherapy tends to make a difference later on in interactions. Someone could make an argument that they might help with conversion % of first date to second dates, but I would somewhat doubt that myself.



In general, 18-22 year olds would think I'm too old. I rarely interact with 18-22 year olds. I probably need more interactions with that group. I see some 21-22 year olds at bars. The youngest women I tend to interact with lately are 25-29 year olds.

I find 30 something women often physically attractive but they are post peak. The typical 35 year old woman doesn't compete well with a 25 year old.



Pretending you are 40 might work. The problem is that older women are rarely down for same night sex from a bar. Women who are 33+ tend to have higher levels of ASD (Anti-Slut Defense). A 35 year old woman who might have been down for a one night stand when she was 25 and intoxicated at a bar is going to be less likely to be down for a one night stand. 35-39 year old women will typically make 35-39 year old men work more to get their pussie. They are going to be more relationship oriented with men close to their own age.

If you were pretending to be 40, I doubt you could keep up the act long enough to complete the slower seduction that a 40 something would require.

Pop culture references are so overrated. I don't think similarity in pop culture experiences has made any difference in who I have had sex with. I have tended to have sex with women near my own age but I've had more interactions with women close to my own age. Additionally, when I used swipe apps/dating websites in the past, women who swiped right on me swiped right probably because of our similarity in ages. I never did lie about my age on apps/websites.

I think it is best to embrace being 33 and focus on sex with 25-32 year olds.

A dating coach like @AmsterdamAssassin would likely be better than a traditional counselor at solving dating issues. Unfortunately, per his own admission, my niche is something he doesn't specialize in (younger man going for older woman)

Interstingly, I recall Amsterdam recently saying the total opposite of what you said. He said older broads are at the stage where they no longer give a damn if they get viewed as slutty.

What's interesting is you admit you'd like sex with 18-22 year olds (broads approximately 20 years younger than you), yet you say my preferred age cohort (which starts a mere 12 years older than me) is too big of a gap.

It might have not been you, but I remember some posters (I forget who) telling me pop culture references are one reason I'd struggle with my preferred age bracket.

The idea that I pretend to be 40 reminds me of a TV show called Younger. The protagonist was in the opposite position: A 40 year old passing herself off as 26. She had to study pop culture extensively (for example, I was X age in X year when X movie came out) to keep all her lies straight.

 

[BaronOfHair]

We've gotten too far away from the topic of rejection rate.

Most in-person stranger approachers are going to have elevated rejection rates. Rejection rates of 90%+ are not uncommon.

App swipers typically have match rates that are less than 1% if they are middle of the bell curve men. In order to have an acceptable match rate on right swipes, a man typically needs to be 90th percentile +. 6'0"+ and fit/muscular is a minimum. 6'0"+, fit/muscular, and displaying status symbol possessions is even better for getting good match rates on right swipes.

If a man wants to reduce his rejection rate, developing a social circle and getting social circle introductions is the way to go. Daygaming in tight knit circles can help. Approaching strangers in general has a high rejection rate. Having a 'Chad' tier physique is the best way to reduce rejection rate when approaching strangers.

When a man stops being overly attached to outcomes, and just starts being playful and fun in his interactions with women, his rates of success have an odd way of going up

 

[GoodMan32]

We've gotten too far away from the topic of rejection rate.

Most in-person stranger approachers are going to have elevated rejection rates. Rejection rates of 90%+ are not uncommon.

App swipers typically have match rates that are less than 1% if they are middle of the bell curve men. In order to have an acceptable match rate on right swipes, a man typically needs to be 90th percentile +. 6'0"+ and fit/muscular is a minimum. 6'0"+, fit/muscular, and displaying status symbol possessions is even better for getting good match rates on right swipes.

If a man wants to reduce his rejection rate, developing a social circle and getting social circle introductions is the way to go. Daygaming in tight knit circles can help. Approaching strangers in general has a high rejection rate. Having a 'Chad' tier physique is the best way to reduce rejection rate when approaching strangers.

Ehh, I'd say discussion of the OP's chances with his preferred demographic ties in with the topic of rejection rates.

Still, I appreciate this post. What's interesting is: I recall some swipe apps never even asking for my height (I guess what I'm saying is the broad won't necessarily know your height when deciding whether to swipe right or left)

 

[GoodMan32]

When a man stops being overly attached to outcomes, and just starts being playful and fun in his interactions with women, his rates of success have an odd way of going up

I'm not overly attached to outcome (as I have a backup plan for getting cooch). Yet look where my lack of attachment to outcome has gotten me.

 

[BaronOfHair]

I'm not overly attached to outcome...

That you're devastated by the mere thought of rejection indicates otherwise

 

[GoodMan32]

That you're devastated by the mere thought of rejection indicates otherwise

Maybe I should elaborate.

When I was in college, I was an absolute dog when it came to sex. Extremely desperate. Because I had no backup plan.

Once I developed my backup plan, I'm no longer the pathetic animal I was 12 years ago (I know I'm not supposed to discuss my backup plan on here. So I won't name my backup plan. But we all know what my backup plan for getting laid is)

As an example: In 2012, I begged and begged a one night stand (who I wasn't even attracted to) to give me a 2nd chance.

Another example from 2012: Some broad was having a long, drawn out text discussion with me. I basically told her "Just stfu and come over already. You could have been here by now."

No way would I go to those levels of desperation/thirst today.

 

[SW15]

When I was in college, I was an absolute dog when it came to sex. Extremely desperate. Because I had no backup plan.

This is a common experience. A lot of men don't have a backup plan.

The backup plan becomes porn & masturbation. That's not healthy. The porn & masturbation plan has become easier since the growth of high speed internet.

Specific to college, all the dorms at my university had high speed internet by the time I arrived on campus in 2001. Even in 2001-2002 (my freshman year), it was easy to get free porn online and develop an unhealthy habit.

A lot of rejection can turn a man to porn/masturbation.

Some men can persevere through the rejection and eventually get something out of it. That is often some sort of girlfriend and she might be mediocre.

 

[GoodMan32]

This is a common experience. A lot of men don't have a backup plan.

The backup plan becomes porn & masturbation. That's not healthy. The porn & masturbation plan has become easier since the growth of high speed internet.

Specific to college, all the dorms at my university had high speed internet by the time I arrived on campus in 2001. Even in 2001-2002 (my freshman year), it was easy to get free porn online and develop an unhealthy habit.

A lot of rejection can turn a man to porn/masturbation.

Some men can persevere through the rejection and eventually get something out of it. That is often some sort of girlfriend and she might be mediocre.

I certainly utilized porn and masturbation in college. But neither of those were as good as the real thing (which is why I went to the desperate measures I did to get/try to get laid)

The fact my sex drive was at its peak back then certainly didn't help. Even though a lot of men would probably love to be 20/21 again, I'd have to be paid a massive sum of money to go back to being 20/21. Those were dark times for me.

Your college was ahead of its time. When I graduated high school in 09, my high school didn't even have high speed internet yet.

Your last sentence explains why a lot of dudes in college don't bother persevering (because in many cases, the only light at the end of the tunnel is a mediocre girlfriend)

 

[GoodMan32]

I usually ask her out when I’m pretty sure she’ll say ‘yes’. So my rejection rate is low.

I have a problem where the more convinced I am a woman is into me, the less likely I am to make a move on her

(The reverse is also true. The less convinced I am a woman is into me, the more likely I am to make a move on her)