my struggles with the ladies go way beyond mere social awkwardness

[Manure Spherian]

Your thinking is similar to Rollo Tomassi's thinking. Rollo Tomassi has had a marriage last 25+ years but he doesn't think most men in the USA or other Western cultures are in a good position to follow his path in a marriage.

The divorce industry is one or the most sinister things on earth!

However, marriage isn’t an “outdates technology,” though James Sexton has inspired the middle-age red-pill crowd to compulsively parrot that line. But that’s a topic for another thread I don’t think is worth having on here.

 

[SW15]

marriage isn’t an “outdates technology,” though James Sexton has inspired the middle-age red-pill crowd to compulsively parrot that line. But that’s a topic for another thread I don’t think is worth having on here.

I agree that would be a topic that would deserve its own thread.

Divorce attorney James Sexton is well known in red pill spaces. He did a great long live stream with Rollo Tomassi in 2023 and I watched that a while back. Sexton acknowledged that he did read Tomassi's 2013 "The Rational Male" book.

 

[GoodMan32]

Your interpretation of what I said is generally correct. If a tech worker is socially awkward, the he would need a lot of money to overcome that awkwardness. He would need to be near the top of his field. Look at Bill Gates during his days at Microsoft. He used his money and CEO status within Microsoft to get a mediocre looking careerist/feminist. That's the best he could do and that's what he did in a less competitive 1980s sexual marketplace.

A male working in a STEM field making $100,000 - $150,000 per year simply doesn't offer enough to offset the "feels" he's going to give to a higher tier, physically attractive woman by being socially awkward. The majority of guys in STEM occupations are socially awkward. Some might be able to mate if they drop their standards enough.

$100,000 - $150,000 per year isn't going to mean much to a woman with a bachelor's degree or higher who has enough skills to earn a living for herself. His presence at that salary level isn't going to significantly alter the course of her life. She's seeking a certain emotional response that a typical middle of the bell curve in looks but socially awkward STEM worker isn't going to offer her. With her likely level of abundance, she's not going to prioritize the type of guy you describe.

In this sexual marketplace, there are men in non-technical field such as sales, marketing, accounting, finance, or blue collar tradesmen who make $100,000 - $150,000 and many of them also struggle to attract and retain women.



Not necessarily. There are a lot of men out there who are neurotypical and have friends and still struggle in the marketplace.



That's not pleasant for a lot of men. Most men are not excited to cross paths with someone who rejected their in-person approach. A good portion of men can be cordial in that type of interaction but they won't enjoy it. I also don't think most men are excited to see a woman who they had a "one date, no sex, no second date" type interaction with either.



Your thinking is similar to Rollo Tomassi's thinking. Rollo Tomassi has had a marriage last 25+ years but he doesn't think most men in the USA or other Western cultures are in a good position to follow his path in a marriage.

You make a good point. Even with Bill Gates's money and status, he still couldn't get anything more than a Plain Jane. Speaks volumes of how social awkwardness holds a man back.

It just so happens I know a guy who makes decent money (although I don't know the exact amount) in the tech industry. He's an outlier. He has decent game (I've seen him in action), above average looks, and ended up getting a beautiful girlfriend. Once again, social awkwardness (or in his case, a surprising lack of social awkwardness in a techie) can make or break a man's success with the ladies.

I've crossed paths with "one date, no sex, no 2nd date" broads too. That's not enjoyable either. But it's way more bearable for me than crossing paths with a woman who flat out rejected me. At least the woman I had one date with thought I was worthy of giving a chance.

 

[Manure Spherian]

I agree that would be a topic that would deserve its own thread.

Divorce attorney James Sexton is well known in red pill spaces. He did a great long live stream with Rollo Tomassi in 2023 and I watched that a while back. Sexton acknowledged that he did read Tomassi's 2013 "The Rational Male" book.

I saw the second one.

Here is what I think is the most succinct article on why marriage carries huge risk these days.

https://www.toqonline.com/archives/v7n2/v7no2_Devlin.pdf

This is it in spoken word.

People who think body count ain’t no thing but a chicken wing as it pertains to marriage might reconsider after reading it.

 

[Manure Spherian]

I have met some men over the years that would be incel/borderline incel if not for their social circle connections getting them well positioned for some sort of LTR. Social circles matters, even if they are now accounting for fewer relationships than at some points in the past

This is how the vast majority of ordinary Gen Xers and boomers did it. And I believe the best way.

 

[SW15]

I've crossed paths with "one date, no sex, no 2nd date" broads too. That's not enjoyable either. But it's way more bearable for me than crossing paths with a woman who flat out rejected me. At least the woman I had one date with thought I was worthy of giving a chance.

It is near equally unpleasant to see someone from a failed in-person approach and to see someone from a failed first date. It is best if I can avoid both of those situations. I think seeing someone from a failed approach is slightly worse overall based on my own experiences. I had a failed approach in my primary gym many years ago where I had to see that person repeatedly for a while. I stopped seeing her over time but did eventually see her at the grocery store many years after the failed approach. The interactions were cordial but I would have preferred to have never seen her after the initial rejection.

I have met some men over the years that would be incel/borderline incel if not for their social circle connections getting them well positioned for some sort of LTR. Social circles matters, even if they are now accounting for fewer relationships than at some points in the past.

This is how the vast majority of ordinary Gen Xers and boomers did it. And I believe the best way.

Good point. For my generation (Gen Y/Millennials), there have been fewer social circle LTRs. With that said, there are enough Millennials who have done that. A good number of ordinary Millennials have done it and it has saved those more ordinary Millennials from being incel/near incel. I think that fewer social circle relationships forming is one reason why there's been an increase in sexlessness among Millennials. Gen Z has been even more sexless than the Millennials have been.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

I've posted about my next door neighbor (who I'd like to get with) on here before. Even if broads forget about some of the men they reject, rejecting the man who lives next door to her is something she's not going to forget. Which is why I haven't made a move (or at least one of the reasons why)

And I think I told you to look for women elsewhere.

You may have to venture a little further away, out of your comfort zone, but you'll get to a point where you won't care about being rejected, because it's normal to approach an attractive woman and just as normal for her not to automatically reciprocate your feelings.

 

[GoodMan32]

And I think I told you to look for women elsewhere.

You may have to venture a little further away, out of your comfort zone, but you'll get to a point where you won't care about being rejected, because it's normal to approach an attractive woman and just as normal for her not to automatically reciprocate your feelings.

Branching out further away (and going for a woman I'm highly unlikely to ever run into again) is one scenario where I'd be willing to get rejected.

It's just unfortunate because chances are I'd have better luck with a woman who knows me (vs a woman I'm cold-approaching). But since I can't take the risk of rejection from a woman who knows me (even if the risk is smaller), I guess I have no choice but to go for broads who don't know me.

Another option is to allow sex to just sort of happen with a woman who already knows me (without either of us really making the move). That option is how I got my last instance of free sex (way back in 2021...which goes to show how unreliable that method is)

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

It's just unfortunate because chances are I'd have better luck with a woman who knows me (vs a woman I'm cold-approaching). But since I can't take the risk of rejection from a woman who knows me (even if the risk is smaller), I guess I have no choice but to go for broads who don't know me.

Choose another neighbourhood and hunt only there. Frequent visits will show you the lay of the land and where the watering holes are.

 

[Grandma Penkitten]

10 pages in and I have some questions.
1. Do you have any hobbies? If so, what?
2. Do you have any friends to do stuff with?
3. Are you actively receiving any type of therapy?

 

[BPH]

Holy hell...I remember replying to this last week and I thought we were done. How does this have 10 pages?