Women Don't Want a Semi-Successful Man

[SW15]

I know a buddy who is 6'2, 300 pounds(big arms and a bit of a belly), with 2 kids by 2 different women, drives an average car, lives in a 2 bedroom apartment, and bangs some of the hottest women in the city, how? he's a bouncer at the hottest bar in the city. His social proof reigns supreme. Could he get the same type of women that he gets at the bar from Dating apps? He would tell you himself "Heck No"

Being a nightlife venue bouncer or a strip club bouncer confers status. Great social proof! That guy would have significantly worse outcomes on a dating app and sending DMs on Instagram.

One of the biggest Issue modern men face is access (along with various other things) to the women that they want. This is why the Redpill has such an obsession with "High value Men" the truth is you can be that 6'5 Chad but if you don't have access to the women that you want or women period then what? How many times have we seen this on this forum or other venues a guy who finally got his shyt together thinking now women would flock to his jock and he is still lonely?

Access is a big deal. This is why the college campus environment is hyped up so much for college students. College students with the college campus environment have a major access advantage over post-college guys who are reliant on some combination of daygame and nightgame. The combination of general daygame and nightgame (even in a big city) doesn't measure up to a college campus, especially the campus of a large, public university.

 

[Anom]

Might as well slip this in. We're both taking your advice on the whole traveling/teaching job thing. I mean this next part with full sincerity, sorry about the stuff I said before, I didn't mean that, and that came from a dark place that I put behind me. I don't know what your take is on second chances. I hope you and your wife are doing well.

Believe me, I rank you the coolest dude on this site. Next to Foe and Serenity.

Actually, I kind of regret saying this because it won't change anything. Ugh. I hate this "you can only edit your posts within a time limit" garbage. Can a mod delete that part of my part post that I'm quoting, or do I have to report my own post?

Alright, back on topic. Something I see a lot here is this whole "women only want the top 10-20%" thing. Is that about women that are also in/near that bracket themselves? Or just attractive women in general? Because there are a few threads I've come across where the meaning sways around.

 

[SW15]

Something I see a lot here is this whole "women only want the top 10-20%" thing. Is that about women that are also in/near that bracket themselves? Or just attractive women in general? Because there are a few threads I've come across where the meaning sways around.

This idea refers to the Top 80% of women only wanting the Top 10-20% of men.

Most men don't think it is an issue when a woman who rates 8-9 on the SMV scale seeks a man who rates 8-9 on SMV scale. When these men and women get together, these are equals getting together. There can be some successful pairings in this range, even longer term pairings. If a man who rates 8-9 ever decides to commit to one woman, he's likely to commit to a woman in his equivalent range. A man who rates at a 9 can easily get sex from women in the 5.5 - 7.9 range, while also getting sex from women who are 8-9s. He has abundance.
What frustrates a lot of men is when very average women (4.5 - 6.4 SMV scale) only demand top tier men (8.5+). It's very common in recent times to see women who rates around the 6 level believe that they are entitled to men who rate around the 9 level. These women demand nothing less than a 9 due to the fact that they have gotten some attention from top guys mainly on social media and dating apps, with possibly some instances of same night sex from the bar as well.

The problem becomes when a woman in the 5-6 level range rejects all men close to her own level. This has been happening more and more. Social media, smartphones, and dating app increased the amount of options all women have, including from men far above their own SMV rating. Women are inclined to only seek the best options from their abundance. While these best options will give them short term sex, they won't commit to them longer term. When this happens, a woman increases her notch count and decreases her long term pair bonding ability. This is called riding the penis carousel / cocck carousel in the red pill/black pill space.

Rollo Tomassi has frequently said that the average rated woman today wants nothing to do with the average rated man today.

At the same time, a lot of decent men in the 5 - 7 range suffer when women in the same range ignore them and seek the Top 10-20%. In the past, when women had less abundance of options, they soon realized that it would be good for them to find a good man who was close to their SMV range. This isn't happening today. These men either need to date someone a 2+ SMV points lower or go without.

What's happening today is that men in the 8-10 range are getting a larger share of the women in the 5+ range, leaving men who rate below an 8 either without partners or struggling a lot to get partners who are often beneath their own SMV level. All of these unmatcched men have to do something in life. A lot of them are turning to OnlyFans, porno tube websites, AI girlfriends, traveling to non-Western countries, or other mechanisms in addressing this imbalance.

 

[BoomToTheMoonAlice]

Actually, I kind of regret saying this because it won't change anything. Ugh. I hate this "you can only edit your posts within a time limit" garbage. Can a mod delete that part of my part post that I'm quoting, or do I have to report my own post?

Alright, back on topic. Something I see a lot here is this whole "women only want the top 10-20%" thing. Is that about women that are also in/near that bracket themselves? Or just attractive women in general? Because there are a few threads I've come across where the meaning sways around.

Whatever you put on the internet is forever, even deleted posts. If you want it erased, you'll need to head down to 33 Thomas Street in NY and ask nicely.

 

[BoomToTheMoonAlice]

This idea refers to the Top 80% of women only wanting the Top 10-20% of men.

Most men don't think it is an issue when a woman who rates 8-9 on the SMV scale seeks a man who rates 8-9 on SMV scale. When these men and women get together, these are equals getting together. There can be some successful pairings in this range, even longer term pairings. If a man who rates 8-9 ever decides to commit to one woman, he's likely to commit to a woman in his equivalent range. A man who rates at a 9 can easily get sex from women in the 5.5 - 7.9 range, while also getting sex from women who are 8-9s. He has abundance.
What frustrates a lot of men is when very average women (4.5 - 6.4 SMV scale) only demand top tier men (8.5+). It's very common in recent times to see women who rates around the 6 level believe that they are entitled to men who rate around the 9 level. These women demand nothing less than a 9 due to the fact that they have gotten some attention from top guys mainly on social media and dating apps, with possibly some instances of same night sex from the bar as well.

The problem becomes when a woman in the 5-6 level range rejects all men close to her own level. This has been happening more and more. Social media, smartphones, and dating app increased the amount of options all women have, including from men far above their own SMV rating. Women are inclined to only seek the best options from their abundance. While these best options will give them short term sex, they won't commit to them longer term. When this happens, a woman increases her notch count and decreases her long term pair bonding ability. This is called riding the penis carousel / cocck carousel in the red pill/black pill space.

Rollo Tomassi has frequently said that the average rated woman today wants nothing to do with the average rated man today.

At the same time, a lot of decent men in the 5 - 7 range suffer when women in the same range ignore them and seek the Top 10-20%. In the past, when women had less abundance of options, they soon realized that it would be good for them to find a good man who was close to their SMV range. This isn't happening today. These men either need to date someone a 2+ SMV points lower or go without.

What's happening today is that men in the 8-10 range are getting a larger share of the women in the 5+ range, leaving men who rate below an 8 either without partners or struggling a lot to get partners who are often beneath their own SMV level. All of these unmatcched men have to do something in life. A lot of them are turning to OnlyFans, porno tube websites, AI girlfriends, traveling to non-Western countries, or other mechanisms in addressing this imbalance.

Those un-matched men typically don't have the stuff to travel abroad. The average guy isn't capable of being a passport bro. The average dude is an obese/semi-obese man with a waifu pillow, a roll of TP beside the mouse and a permanent porn folder on his computer. He's a pathetic loser who will spend his life hiding from society with Anime RPG videogames, those miniature girl-chan models and Yu Gi Oh cards... or he drowns himself in beer and fentanyl and takes sabaticals into the forest with his dog. These hermit folk are in every era, there is just more of them in this one. If you want to see what were working with you only need attend a D&D meetup and try to convince the people there to try becoming real warriors or learning skills on their character sheets. If you haven't attended some form of nerdcon, you have NO idea the depths of patheticism these men are capable of. Think the Simpsons comic book guy crossed with a Weebo furry.

If you've fvcked a woman of ANY kind, you are part of the top 10%

There are presently 30 MILLION men in China who will NOT be getting any kind of woman if they don't act now and go abroad. I would suspect there are an equally large number of pathetic men in the West who are incapable of overcoming their own social insecurities. They turn to MJ / Booze / Games / Furry / Asian cartoon culture (?) or whatever makes them feel safe and comfortable. I've been to Japan and seen the hikikomori, I've seen the same types of dudes in Mexico, Brazil and China... they're everywhere. They are the guys who dream of being warriors but are too lazy to do anything about their situation. We have to accept that there will always be a loser segment of the population and nothing you can do will help them... shy of maybe interstellar war.

 

[SW15]

Those un-matched men typically don't have the stuff to travel abroad. The average guy isn't capable of being a passport bro. The average dude is an obese/semi-obese man with a waifu pillow, a roll of TP beside the mouse and a permanent porn folder on his computer. He's a pathetic loser who will spend his life hiding from society with Anime RPG videogames, those miniature girl-chan models and Yu Gi Oh cards... or he drowns himself in beer and fentanyl and takes sabaticals into the forest with his dog. These hermit folk are in every era, there is just more of them in this one.

I agree with your general point.

Leaving a Western nation to go to Asia, Eastern Europe, or Latin America will always be a bit of a niche activity. Western men today are flooding swipe apps in Western nations instead of relocating. The niche might grow a little bit due to the "Passport Bros" hype, but it has a limit as to how much it can grow. There are likely already reports of men traveling to the areas I mentioned and failing.

A lot of the overweight/Sub 5 men you mention are men in Western nations who are OnlyFans pay pigs and porn tube watchers.

It's more common for the unmatched men to remain on swipe apps and contribute to the bad ratios out there.

What you're describing are men who are Sub 5's. This thread was originally intended to describe men who make $75,000 - $125,000/year who at least have a healthier BMI and don't have any unusual habits like the ones you describe. Many of these men are also struggling in hypercompetitive markets in the West.

 

[BoomToTheMoonAlice]

I agree with your general point.

Leaving a Western nation to go to Asia, Eastern Europe, or Latin America will always be a bit of a niche activity. Western men today are flooding swipe apps in Western nations instead of relocating. The niche might grow a little bit due to the "Passport Bros" hype, but it has a limit as to how much it can grow. There are likely already reports of men traveling to the areas I mentioned and failing.

A lot of the overweight/Sub 5 men you mention are men in Western nations who are OnlyFans pay pigs and porn tube watchers.

It's more common for the unmatched men to remain on swipe apps and contribute to the bad ratios out there.

What you're describing are men who are Sub 5's. This thread was originally intended to describe men who make $75,000 - $125,000/year who at least have a healthier BMI and don't have any unusual habits like the ones you describe. Many of these men are also struggling in hypercompetitive markets in the West.

I think a lot of those Sub 5's you describe are also the ones pulling down 75k/year salaries. I know a bunch of them. Nerds typically become computer programmers or sys-admins so they can hide in a server room with their holographic waifu. I'd wager that most of the guys on this forum belong to that group. For some reason, 99% of left-wing males fall into this category. I know a bodybuilder who looks like the Hulk and Godzilla had a kid. He is extremely educated in martial arts and makes the low end of six figs. Never had a gf, never even spoke to a girl outside of this one old fat single mom who CONTROLS him but has no sexual interest in him. I think it's time we have a sub6 category to put these other 'successful losers' into. My cousin who pulls 80k, owns, 2 houses, car, motorbike, just came out of a 15-year self-imposed nerd isolation, went abroad for 2 weeks, and met a trash heap from the Philippines because he wanted to dabble in passport brodom. He's another one of these dudes who will end up divorced after she gets her greenie. You can't have it both ways, you can't hide under your bed, while also getting a decent woman, the real world is not a Dungeons and Dragons adventure and epic level women do not tolerate being discarded like used tissues.

These sub5's and 6's will all eventually go abroad for the least amount of time they can manage and pick up the trash of the 3rd world and loudly proclaim they've found a treasure. This is how 90 day fiance happens and there is certainly a HUGE subset of the passport bro culture that ties to this. If you don't relocate out of the West for at least a year, you have no frame of reference for what a quality chick is.

It's not the money that makes you attractive to women, it's the person you become on the adventure to get it. If your adventure consists of a degree and a 9 to 5, you can expect to pull the same. If you want a real amazon princess, you have to be a real action hero.

 

[SW15]

There are presently 30 MILLION men in China who will NOT be getting any kind of woman if they don't act now and go abroad.

The unmatched men in China is something not talked about on this forum enough.

I think a lot of those Sub 5's you describe are also the ones pulling down 75k/year salaries. I know a bunch of them. Nerds typically become computer programmers or sys-admins so they can hide in a server room with their holographic waifu. I'd wager that most of the guys on this forum belong to that group. For some reason, 99% of left-wing males fall into this category.

I agree with you that these men exist. There are plenty of overweight men with subpar facial aesthetics working in STEM type jobs and not getting laid. If you re-read the first post of this thread, the original poster wanted to focus on more normie range men and not odd guys like Dungeons & Dragons players, Weebos, or other nerd core guys. We both agree these men exist and aren't getting laid conventionally. However, there are also mainstream guys with above average salary ranges ($75,000 - $125,000) who are also not getting laid. These are the men with at least average social skills and non-STEM white collar jobs or even a few blue collar tradesmen. When so many men are unmatched, there are bound to be a lot of normie range guys not getting laid.

I know a bodybuilder who looks like the Hulk and Godzilla had a kid. He is extremely educated in martial arts and makes the low end of six figs. Never had a gf, never even spoke to a girl outside of this one old fat single mom who CONTROLS him but has no sexual interest in him.

He has muscles and money. With those two things going on, one would think he wouldn't have to do much to attract someone, even a basic 5 or 6.

I think it's time we have a sub6 category to put these other 'successful losers' into. My cousin who pulls 80k, owns, 2 houses, car, motorbike, just came out of a 15-year self-imposed nerd isolation, went abroad for 2 weeks, and met a trash heap from the Philippines because he wanted to dabble in passport brodom. He's another one of these dudes who will end up divorced after she gets her greenie. You can't have it both ways, you can't hide under your bed, while also getting a decent woman, the real world is not a Dungeons and Dragons adventure and epic level women do not tolerate being discarded like used tissues.

These sub5's and 6's will all eventually go abroad for the least amount of time they can manage and pick up the trash of the 3rd world and loudly proclaim they've found a treasure. This is how 90 day fiance happens and there is certainly a HUGE subset of the passport bro culture that ties to this.

All of this makes sense to me.

If you don't relocate out of the West for at least a year, you have no frame of reference for what a quality chick is.

I've spent nearly 25 years in the United States' mating environment. It's all I know. It explains some of my viewpoints.

It's not the money that makes you attractive to women, it's the person you become on the adventure to get it. If your adventure consists of a degree and a 9 to 5, you can expect to pull the same. If you want a real amazon princess, you have to be a real action hero.

Having a high salary can be enough to get a woman conventionally. Bill Gates during his time at Microsoft was an example of this. It was the combination of his money and CEO status that enabled him to attract and seduce a mediocre career woman with an MBA working at Microsoft. If a man is going to use his salary as the primary way he attracts women, that salary is going to need to be a salary higher than the low six figures.

 

[patb]

I know a buddy who is 6'2, 300 pounds(big arms and a bit of a belly), with 2 kids by 2 different women, drives an average car, lives in a 2 bedroom apartment, and bangs some of the hottest women in the city, how? he's a bouncer at the hottest bar in the city. His social proof reigns supreme. Could he get the same type of women that he gets at the bar from Dating apps? He would tell you himself "Heck No"

One of the biggest Issue modern men face is access (along with various other things) to the women that they want. This is why the Redpill has such an obsession with "High value Men" the truth is you can be that 6'5 Chad but if you don't have access to the women that you want or women period then what? How many times have we seen this on this forum or other venues a guy who finally got his shyt together thinking now women would flock to his jock and he is still lonely?



Bingo money can't "Unlame" a "Lame" once again it goes to the point of dudes who think that money will resolve all their problems with women. I remember a buddy of mine becoming a millionaire in 2021 and he told me "Solo most women don't give a shyt if you are rich or not" let me add more context unless you're dealing with a golddigger money only matters to women in regards to the lifestyle that they want, if she really likes you for you a woman has no problem smashing you on a mattress in the traphouse with roaches on the wall.

The access thing is extremely under appreciated. Probably because you have limited control over it and is very clearly not the fictional meritocracy everyone seems to want to fantasize about.

 

[patb]

Being a nightlife venue bouncer or a strip club bouncer confers status. Great social proof! That guy would have significantly worse outcomes on a dating app and sending DMs on Instagram.



Access is a big deal. This is why the college campus environment is hyped up so much for college students. College students with the college campus environment have a major access advantage over post-college guys who are reliant on some combination of daygame and nightgame. The combination of general daygame and nightgame (even in a big city) doesn't measure up to a college campus, especially the campus of a large, public university.

The fact that being a bouncer confers greater status than just about anything else is itself all the indictment anyone should need of this disgusting and retarded society.

 

[Anom]

Whatever you put on the internet is forever, even deleted posts. If you want it erased, you'll need to head down to 33 Thomas Street in NY and ask nicely.

Like I would be stupid enough to fall for that a third time.

Rollo Tomassi has frequently said that the average rated woman today wants nothing to do with the average rated man today.

I keep seeing these articles all over the place from either this year or last, with headlines such as "Study Shows an Increase in Men Being Single". And I can never tell if that's just one of those generic articles that takes a simplistic piece of data and stretches it out to a dry and boring article, or if it's related to what this thread is about.

 

[patb]

I think a lot of those Sub 5's you describe are also the ones pulling down 75k/year salaries. I know a bunch of them. Nerds typically become computer programmers or sys-admins so they can hide in a server room with their holographic waifu. I'd wager that most of the guys on this forum belong to that group. For some reason, 99% of left-wing males fall into this category. I know a bodybuilder who looks like the Hulk and Godzilla had a kid. He is extremely educated in martial arts and makes the low end of six figs. Never had a gf, never even spoke to a girl outside of this one old fat single mom who CONTROLS him but has no sexual interest in him. I think it's time we have a sub6 category to put these other 'successful losers' into. My cousin who pulls 80k, owns, 2 houses, car, motorbike, just came out of a 15-year self-imposed nerd isolation, went abroad for 2 weeks, and met a trash heap from the Philippines because he wanted to dabble in passport brodom. He's another one of these dudes who will end up divorced after she gets her greenie. You can't have it both ways, you can't hide under your bed, while also getting a decent woman, the real world is not a Dungeons and Dragons adventure and epic level women do not tolerate being discarded like used tissues.

These sub5's and 6's will all eventually go abroad for the least amount of time they can manage and pick up the trash of the 3rd world and loudly proclaim they've found a treasure. This is how 90 day fiance happens and there is certainly a HUGE subset of the passport bro culture that ties to this. If you don't relocate out of the West for at least a year, you have no frame of reference for what a quality chick is.

It's not the money that makes you attractive to women, it's the person you become on the adventure to get it. If your adventure consists of a degree and a 9 to 5, you can expect to pull the same. If you want a real amazon princess, you have to be a real action hero.

tl;dr: if you’re not a “neurotypical” extrovert, all the “self improvement” in the world won’t matter here. I wouldn’t be too keen to throw stones over exaggerated conquests in these parts, personally. Nobody here is a “real action hero” (and if he were, women wouldn’t care — they’d just **** the “cool” normie with the “hot” tats who works at a bar).

 

[patb]

Those un-matched men typically don't have the stuff to travel abroad. The average guy isn't capable of being a passport bro. The average dude is an obese/semi-obese man with a waifu pillow, a roll of TP beside the mouse and a permanent porn folder on his computer. He's a pathetic loser who will spend his life hiding from society with Anime RPG videogames, those miniature girl-chan models and Yu Gi Oh cards... or he drowns himself in beer and fentanyl and takes sabaticals into the forest with his dog. These hermit folk are in every era, there is just more of them in this one. If you want to see what were working with you only need attend a D&D meetup and try to convince the people there to try becoming real warriors or learning skills on their character sheets. If you haven't attended some form of nerdcon, you have NO idea the depths of patheticism these men are capable of. Think the Simpsons comic book guy crossed with a Weebo furry.

If you've fvcked a woman of ANY kind, you are part of the top 10%

There are presently 30 MILLION men in China who will NOT be getting any kind of woman if they don't act now and go abroad. I would suspect there are an equally large number of pathetic men in the West who are incapable of overcoming their own social insecurities. They turn to MJ / Booze / Games / Furry / Asian cartoon culture (?) or whatever makes them feel safe and comfortable. I've been to Japan and seen the hikikomori, I've seen the same types of dudes in Mexico, Brazil and China... they're everywhere. They are the guys who dream of being warriors but are too lazy to do anything about their situation. We have to accept that there will always be a loser segment of the population and nothing you can do will help them... shy of maybe interstellar war.

All of that, and yet still less pathetic than a PUA

 

[BoomToTheMoonAlice]

tl;dr: if you’re not a “neurotypical” extrovert, all the “self improvement” in the world won’t matter here. I wouldn’t be too keen to throw stones over exaggerated conquests in these parts, personally. Nobody here is a “real action hero” (and if he were, women wouldn’t care — they’d just **** the “cool” normie with the “hot” tats who works at a bar).

Tell me you're a sub 5 without telling me you're a sub 5.

'Neurotypical'

'TLDR'

How would you know? You already stated they don't exist in your world. Why don't you ask instead of tell?

 

[patb]

Tell me you're a sub 5 without telling me you're a sub 5.

'Neurotypical'

'TLDR'

How would you know? You already stated they don't exist in your world. Why don't you ask instead of tell?

As we all know, the real Winners and Dominant Alpha Males sling around terms like “sub-5” on the internets.

 

[BoomToTheMoonAlice]

As we all know, the real Winners and Dominant Alpha Males sling around terms like “sub-5” on the internets.

Does being a neurotypical chirpy western know it all, get those women? I don't really understand Gen Z culture enough to make a judgement call here.

 

[SW15]

The fact that being a bouncer confers greater status than just about anything else is itself all the indictment anyone should need of this disgusting and retarded society.

Bouncers protect attractive bartenders and attractive strippers while on the job. Women are attracted to men who can provide protection for them. This is why a bouncer is perceived as an attractive male due to his status. Bouncers also have access to attractive women that a lot of white and blue collar workers do not have. Go find a construction worker that has access to women like a bouncer has.

 

[BoomToTheMoonAlice]

Bouncers protect attractive bartenders and attractive strippers while on the job. Women are attracted to men who can provide protection for them. This is why a bouncer is perceived as an attractive male due to his status. Bouncers also have access to attractive women that a lot of white and blue collar workers do not have. Go find a construction worker that has access to women like a bouncer has.

Second this, my friend who operates the downtown dive gets women chucking numbers at him nightly. Both bartenders and chicks in line. He gets laid so much, he had to start bringing them to work. I would add that a bouncer is more likely to take up opportunities to be an action hero, they operate in that culture. My friend has bowling balls for arms and I've seen him take down people effortlessly. I would trust him to take care of me over some comic book loser or gym bro faggit. He's a shorter dude too... probably 5'6. He's pushing 300 lbs though, mostly muscle.

 

[patb]

Does being a neurotypical chirpy western know it all, get those women? I don't really understand Gen Z culture enough to make a judgement call here.

Another boomer with delusions of grandeur. This pace is turning into a nursing home where every tenant is that crazy guy who thinks he’s the reincarnation of Napoleon

 

[SW15]

Second this, my friend who operates the downtown dive gets women chucking numbers at him nightly. Both bartenders and chicks in line. He gets laid so much, he had to start bringing them to work. I would add that a bouncer is more likely to take up opportunities to be an action hero, they operate in that culture. My friend has bowling balls for arms and I've seen him take down people effortlessly. I would trust him to take care of me over some comic book loser or gym bro faggit. He's a shorter dude too... probably 5'6. He's pushing 300 lbs though, mostly muscle.

Bouncer salary is not $75,000+/annual. Yet bouncers have an advantage over men in that $75,000 - $125,000 range who are white collar or blue collar workers. They are considered exciting, protector men. Imagine being a bouncer who is 6'0"+ and 200 lbs + of mainly muscle. That's going to impress a lot of women. A bouncer of that height and weight with a motorcycle will have abundance and it is abundance of stripper and barmaid vagina.

It would take a lot of money for a 5'9"-5'11" white collar worker in a non-STEM field, in decent shape, and with average social skills to replicate what a bouncer has. That might take a white collar salary of $250,000+ to achieve that sort of abundance with attractive women.