Women Don't Want a Semi-Successful Man

[Solomon]

Exactly. While I do agree men who are in what I call the gray-middle are pretty lost in the dating market, a lot of it has to do with mentality. The man at the bottom has nothing to lose and acts like it. Total bravado. The man at the top has safety and security. Total bravado. The man in the gray-middle is scared to death. Scared they don't have enough looksmoneystatus yadda yadda ya. This mentality oozes through every pore and turns the man into a simp. They're ****ed before they even open their mouth because the gray-middle man is looking for validation from a woman. They're looking to qualify themselves as enough. Loser mindset.

What's more valuable than looksmoneystatus? It's something that's more precious than gold. Good emotions. You can't buy it. Bench pressing won't give it to you. A chiseled jaw won't help. You can't even really fake it. You literally have to get your head on straight, learn to get in the moment, overcome your own issues, and become a 5 year old again where only the present moment exists. Women secretly like FUN more than looksmoneystatus. If you know how to give them that, then you win.

Also, instead of gray-middle men faking that they have money, try going the other way. Fake that you're a starving artist/bohemian/garbage man and don't give a ****. Take on that mentality. Try it out for the date. Your results will probably be better than bragging about some bull**** corporate cubicle job

Yup I was watching a video by this big youtuber who found out his ex-girlfriend was dating a broke guy after him and he couldn't fathom it. YOu have to understand the youtuber is a millionaire but out of shape and he wonders why his girlfriend would cheat on him with a broke athlete

 

[SW15]

Exactly. While I do agree men who are in what I call the gray-middle are pretty lost in the dating market, a lot of it has to do with mentality. The man at the bottom has nothing to lose and acts like it. Total bravado. The man at the top has safety and security. Total bravado. The man in the gray-middle is scared to death. Scared they don't have enough looksmoneystatus yadda yadda ya.

In the 2020s, the gray middle market is a tough place to be.

Making $75,000 - $125,000 in 2024 will get an unattached man a decent 1 bedroom apartment in a lot of bigger USA cities. In the most expensive Northeast and West Coast cities, that might mean a 2 bedroom apartment with a roommate.

In a lot of bigger USA cities, men reach that $75,000 - $125,000 salary range at age 30 or later. When men are in their 30s-40s, money becomes more important in the SMV equation.

A mid-tier salary man like the $75,000 - $125,000 earning man is doing well enough to have a decent life but he's not earning enough to base his SMV completely on money. Some men in this salary range will take on some level of debt to get impressive possession to use as a means of seducing women.

It's also a challenging place to be because a job loss in this salary range will cause financial pain. It could take 6-12 month to replace this salary range in the white collar space. If a man has debt, that won't be good. Even paying the rent could be challenging for the single man.

 

[ThisIsSparta]

In the 2020s, the gray middle market is a tough place to be.

Making $75,000 - $125,000 in 2024 will get an unattached man a decent 1 bedroom apartment in a lot of bigger USA cities. In the most expensive Northeast and West Coast cities, that might mean a 2 bedroom apartment with a roommate.

In a lot of bigger USA cities, men reach that $75,000 - $125,000 salary range at age 30 or later. When men are in their 30s-40s, money becomes more important in the SMV equation.

A mid-tier salary man like the $75,000 - $125,000 earning man is doing well enough to have a decent life but he's not earning enough to base his SMV completely on money. Some men in this salary range will take on some level of debt to get impressive possession to use as a means of seducing women.

It's also a challenging place to be because a job loss in this salary range will cause financial pain. It could take 6-12 month to replace this salary range in the white collar space. If a man has debt, that won't be good. Even paying the rent could be challenging for the single man.

Things become ridiculous and men should just stop playing and walk away from shyt like that.

When the system is rigged against you, operate outside the system.

At some point in the near future the passport bro's will be making fun of the cvcked simps at home that are working their azz off to get the last open spot in a poly-relationship.

Western men need to realize there is a war led against them and nothing but slavery will be acceptable for the powers at work.

 

[SW15]

Things become ridiculous and men should just stop playing and walk away from shyt like that.

When the system is rigged against you, operate outside the system.

At some point in the near future the passport bro's will be making fun of the cvcked simps at home that are working their azz off to get the last open spot in a poly-relationship.

Western men need to realize there is a war led against them and nothing but slavery will be acceptable for the powers at work.

I have long said that Game (seduction & retention) is a combination of looks, money, status, and personality. I have long believed that looks and money are the most important variables there.

This thread is mostly about money and its role in initial seduction and retention in longer term relationships.

A $75,000 - $125,000 salary in 2023-2024 puts a man in a higher percentile among all income earners. Men typically don't reach this salary range until after age 30. After age 30 is when money starts to become more of a relevant variable in a man's SMV.

The mid-tier provider male hasn't been doing as well in recent decades. I'm 41 and I can't recall a time in the last 20 years when provider males were considered something that women desired. Most women earn enough money to not value a provider male with a slightly above average income.

I don't talk as much about Passport Bros as others. Most men simply don't have what it takes to leave a Western nation and search for women in non-Western nations. I can understand why Western men opt out of dating and chose to relocate.

It would stink to be a higher earning man in an expensive city like San Francisco and be in a poly relationship. A lot of San Francisco men are doing that now.

 

[jhonny9546]

C'era un motivo per cui nostro nonno li teneva a piedi nudi, incinte e dietro i fornelli

That's why women had more than 10 sons back in time...
You get a realtionship of 30 years in this way.

So until then its only fun and games that a man should offer.

This. You can be that man, but not a good father.

 

[jhonny9546]

So until then its only fun and games that a man should offer.

This. You can be that man, but not a good father.

I don't care what women want. I take note of what they respond to, that's all I need to know.

For me, I saw big changes in women (doing IOI's) for:
- my Kindness
- my Muscles
- my Intelligence
- my Creative/Humoristic side

Thanks for this comment. This made me understand I could note those quality somewhere.

Part of the challenge has to do with adjusting to the generational gap brought by the Internet. Their desires are the same, but there's a lot of new ideas that's been affecting their minds, from feminism and the shows they watch, to dating apps and Instagram. From there stems a lot of false conviction that is really just confusion, and I guess part of that is where we come in - we clarify so they understand the world better (not so much as it becomes pedantic and ineffective). We lead and they follow, right?

You can do it, and yet remember her everytime, but sometimes, you may still not being understood.
Sometimes, there's no room to change/adapt (specifically for BPD women)

 

[SW15]

Things become ridiculous and men should just stop playing and walk away from shyt like that.

When the system is rigged against you, operate outside the system.

This is nice to say in theory. It doesn't always work out that way in the real world.

There are more and more men following the MGTOW path. I don't comment about MGTOW stuff too much because I don't think it's very realistic for a lot of men. Most men have too much testosterone to walk away completely on their own. However, in the USA, many women will reject men and turn them into involuntary celibates (incels). There are similarities between incels and MGTOWs.

Some men operate outside of the system by paying directly for sex. These are men who struggle to get laid in conventional dating (indirectly paid sex) but are getting laid from directly paid sex.

There are many men who are in the income range of semi-successful men who are ignored by women in the conventional sexual marketplace.

At some point in the near future the passport bro's will be making fun of the cvcked simps at home that are working their azz off to get the last open spot in a poly-relationship.

This is already happening in places like San Francisco, Seattle, and Portland, OR. Women in these cities are able to get penis in poly relationships from many men despite being subpar to mediocre looking.

 

[BaronOfHair]

This is nice to say in theory. It doesn't always work out that way in the real world.

There are more and more men following the MGTOW path. I don't comment about MGTOW stuff too much because I don't think it's very realistic for a lot of men. Most men have too much testosterone to walk away completely on their own

When 2 nd Wave Feminism's "A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle" ethos had flamed out by the early 80s https://www.nytimes.com/1982/10/17/magazine/voices-from-the-post-feminist-generation.html , one has to wonder: What leads MGTOW's to believe that what they're proposing will be any more sustainable for men?

 

[SW15]

When 2 nd Wave Feminism's "A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle" ethos had flamed out by the early 80s https://www.nytimes.com/1982/10/17/magazine/voices-from-the-post-feminist-generation.html

This article was a very good find.

What leads MGTOW's to believe that what they're proposing will be any more sustainable for men?

MGTOW is not sustainable for men. Men do not arrive at MGTOW magically. When a man decides to pursue MGTOW, it is after being ignored and rejected by women.

 

[BaronOfHair]

When a man decides to pursue MGTOW, it is after being ignored and rejected by women.

And conning himself into believing that his lot in life is MOSTLY the fault of not only the women he desired not wanting him, but also the result of

-Gynocentrism
-The New World World Order
-The Globalist Elites
-The CIA
-The Lizard People

And the other 5,000,000 or so folks he believes are lurking around the corner, eager to pull the rug out from underneath his feet. Loudly and frequently as these fellas doth bewail the narcissism of women, their own core beliefs("I'm special enough to warrant The Evil Overlords who secretly control the planet's undivided attention")are drenched in garrish self-importantce

 

[BaronOfHair]

This article was a very good find.

Quote that article: "My feelings about feminism are at least par-tially a reaction to my mother,'' she explained. ''Betty Friedan is right; they're losing the second generation because of this incredible bitterness.'' She went on: ''My abandonment of feminism was a process of intellect. It was also a process of observation. Look around and you'll see some happy women, and then you'll see these bitter, bitter women. The unhappy women are all feminists. You'll find very few happy, enthusiastic, relaxed people who are ardent supporters of feminism. Feminists are really tortured people.''

One can easily and aptly replace "Feminists" with "MGTOWs" and, for that matter, "Men's Rights Activists". And just as everyone in that article gives Feminists credit for things that ambitious, resourceful women have been doing since the beginning of time https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pro...a concept that,often subsumed into "feminism". (Note: As early as '72, Joan Didion was denouncing The Women's Movement of the period as Stalinsque, and Pauline Kael had equally scathing words for Feminists of the decade), it would be inaccurate to give contemporary Red Pillers much credit for things which were already being discussed here on this very website https://www.sosuave.net/forum/threads/effects-of-sex-and-the-city.59983/#post-530032 , back in the early 2000s

Creating ersatz religions like Feminism and The Red Pill has just complicated things unduly

 

[SW15]

The unhappy women are all feminists. You'll find very few happy, enthusiastic, relaxed people who are ardent supporters of feminism. Feminists are really tortured people.''

That was true in 1982 when it was written and true in current times as well (2010s-2020s).

'' She went on: ''My abandonment of feminism was a process of intellect. It was also a process of observation. Look around and you'll see some happy women, and then you'll see these bitter, bitter women.

Good for her for having that self-awareness. Not many women do. One current day example of a woman with self-awareness is Courtney Ryan. Courtney Ryan likely had sex with numerous alpha/sigma type males in her teens - mid 20s, then settled with wealthy dweeb Teddy Baldassarre around age 24. She's only with Teddy Baldassarre for his money and she realized earlier in life than a lot of money that she was going to be unable to secure a long term commitment out of the alpha/sigma type that she truly desired.

Is Courtney Ryan a Fish Trying to Teach Men How to Catch Fish?

https://www.youtube.com/c/CourtneyRyan I can't figure out who is the target market for a woman being a men's issue specialist/leader.

www.sosuave.net

Creating The Red Pill has just complicated things unduly

I don't think the red pill is a bad thing. The red pill has been a reaction to changes in the sexual marketplace in recent decades. In the GI Generation (1910s-early 1920s births), Silent Generation (late 1920s-1945 births), and Baby Boomers (1946-1964 births), Western men could attract women by having decent jobs and not being overweight. That hasn't been reality for Millennial men (1981-1996) and this thread was started by a Millennial man. Right now, there is a generation of Millennial men in their 30s-early 40s who were encouraged by their Boomer parents to go to college and get a solid paying job because that advice worked for the Boomers. Millennial men are seeing that their slightly above average paying white collar jobs aren't getting them laid. The blue collar Millennial tradesmen are also struggling to get laid in a lot cases. Being a decent salaryman isn't much in attracting women.

 

[BaronOfHair]

I don't think the red pill is a bad thing. The red pill has been a reaction to changes in the sexual marketplace in recent decades. In the GI Generation (1910s-early 1920s births), Silent Generation (late 1920s-1945 births), and Baby Boomers (1946-1964 births), Western men could attract women by having decent jobs and not being overweight. That hasn't been reality for Millennial men (1981-1996) and this thread was started by a Millennial man. Right now, there is a generation of Millennial men in their 30s-early 40s who were encouraged by their Boomer parents to go to college and get a solid paying job because that advice worked for the Boomers. Millennial men are seeing that their slightly above average paying white collar jobs aren't getting them laid. The blue collar Millennial tradesmen are also struggling to get laid in a lot cases. Being a decent salaryman isn't much in attracting women.

In regards to whether or not The Red Pill is "a good thing".... As said elsewhere, life was much simpler when we weren't emulating The Woke Left, by speaking and writing of these things in paragraphs overflowing with jargon and buzzwords. It wasn't all that long ago that we were doing so both here at SS https://www.sosuave.com/ubb/Forum6/HTML/000265.html and in The MSM https://www.sosuave.net/forum/threads/rationale-male-players-handbook.282121/#post-3116512



"The red pill has been a reaction to changes in the sexual marketplace in recent decades. In the GI Generation (1910s-early 1920s births), Silent Generation (late 1920s-1945 births), and Baby Boomers (1946-1964 births), Western men could attract women by having decent jobs and not being overweight. That hasn't been reality for Millennial men (1981-1996) and this thread was started by a Millennial man. Right now, there is a generation of Millennial men in their 30s-early 40s who were encouraged by their Boomer parents to go to college and get a solid paying job because that advice worked for the Boomers. Millennial men are seeing that their slightly above average paying white collar jobs aren't getting them laid. The blue collar Millennial tradesmen are also struggling to get laid in a lot cases. Being a decent salaryman isn't much in attracting women"


Where's your evidence for all this, aside from canards that are rampant in The Manosphere?

 

[BaronOfHair]

One current day example of a woman with self-awareness is Courtney Ryan. Courtney Ryan likely had sex with numerous alpha/sigma type males in her teens - mid 20s, then settled with wealthy dweeb Teddy Baldassarre around age 24. She's only with Teddy Baldassarre for his money and she realized earlier in life than a lot of money that she was going to be unable to secure a long term commitment out of the alpha/sigma type that she truly

I don't put anything past anyone, nonetheless what evidence are you basing all of this on?

 

[SW15]

I don't put anything past anyone, nonetheless what evidence are you basing all of this on?

Why else would Courtney be with a dweebish looking guy?

Where's your evidence for all this, aside from canards that are rampant in The Manosphere?

There are plenty of data points around increasing sexlessness among men, women rating 80% of men below average, women only swiping right on 4.5% of men while men swipe right on around 50% of women, less sex within marriages now compared to the pre-internet era.

 

[BaronOfHair]

Why else would Courtney be with a dweebish looking guy?

With great respect to CR, she's a solid 6 at her most glorious. It would actually be very odd to see her with a dude who looks like Henry Cavill or MB Jordan

 

[SW15]

With great respect to CR, she's a solid 6 at her most glorious. It would actually be very odd to see her with a dude who looks like Henry Cavill or MB Jordan

6 is a defensible rating for Courtney Ryan. She's a "cute" range female, which would be around a 6 to low 7 depending on who is doing the rating.

There are plenty of female 6s with men who are 8+ and even 8.5+ on looks. It's usually something shorter term. A lot of female 6's get attention on swipe apps and in the DMs on social men from elite looking men. They don't usually get commitment from these men but they'll get pursued by them and sometimes shorter term sex will happen.
T
When Courtney Ryan was younger, it is likely she got attention from some elite looking men. If she went to spring break in Florida, she had some hot, tall, muscular men going for her.

She attended a public university in Ohio and has lived in Cleveland for multiple years after college. She hasn't been in the most exciting type cities in the USA. There are enough "hot guys" in Ohio that she got her taste of elite guys.

Part of why she settled for Beta Bux dweeb Teddy in her mid-20s is because she had enough self-awareness to realize fairly early that she wasn't going to get a commitment from a top tier, "hot guy" who she truly wanted. She probably wanted the spring break foam cannon party guy that Rollo and Rich Cooper mention all the time. There are plenty of females in exciting type cities like New York, Los Angeles, Miami, and Dallas seeking alpha/sigma type elite guys and these women ride the penis carousels well into their 30s and possibly beyond.

 

[Solomon]

6 is a defensible rating for Courtney Ryan. She's a "cute" range female, which would be around a 6 to low 7 depending on who is doing the rating.

There are plenty of female 6s with men who are 8+ and even 8.5+ on looks. It's usually something shorter term. A lot of female 6's get attention on swipe apps and in the DMs on social men from elite looking men. They don't usually get commitment from these men but they'll get pursued by them and sometimes shorter term sex will happen.
T
When Courtney Ryan was younger, it is likely she got attention from some elite looking men. If she went to spring break in Florida, she had some hot, tall, muscular men going for her.

She attended a public university in Ohio and has lived in Cleveland for multiple years after college. She hasn't been in the most exciting type cities in the USA. There are enough "hot guys" in Ohio that she got her taste of elite guys.

Part of why she settled for Beta Bux dweeb Teddy in her mid-20s is because she had enough self-awareness to realize fairly early that she wasn't going to get a commitment from a top tier, "hot guy" who she truly wanted. She probably wanted the spring break foam cannon party guy that Rollo and Rich Cooper mention all the time. There are plenty of females in exciting type cities like New York, Los Angeles, Miami, and Dallas seeking alpha/sigma type elite guys and these women ride the penis carousels well into their 30s and possibly beyond.

Not here simping but Courtney Ryan would be easily an "8" in Wisconsin some of you guys gotta realize there are some fat/ugly women in smaller US states those ratings easily bump up

Not saying you're wrong cause In Miami Courtney would just be another white girl, her husband does look like a dork, not hard to date if you making 250K plus any white guy should be able to get a "Courtney" in that salary range

 

[BaronOfHair]

This article was a very good find.



MGTOW is not sustainable for men. Men do not arrive at MGTOW magically. When a man decides to pursue MGTOW, it is after being ignored and rejected by women.

No one who has overlapping areas of agreement with MGTOW has penned a searing examination of the entire subculture, similar to Didion's takedown of The Women's Movement https://www.nytimes.com/1972/07/30/archives/the-womens-movement-women.html

And modern men are worse off for it

 

[SW15]

In Miami Courtney would just be another white girl

This is true. It's essentially true in Dallas as well.

Not here simping but Courtney Ryan would be easily an "8" in Wisconsin some of you guys gotta realize there are some fat/ugly women in smaller US states those ratings easily bump up

Courtney would be more positively perceived in Ohio or Wisconsin than Florida or Texas. She went to college in small town Ohio and appears to have lived in Cleveland since then. Cleveland is a bigger city but not quite as known for attractive women as Miami, Dallas, New York, or Los Angeles.

her husband does look like a dork

Yes, he does. I maintain that she settled for him because she couldn't get the commitment she desired out of a 6'0"+ fit guy she would have seen on Spring Break in Florida or in the Cleveland bars. She arrived at this realization in her mid-20s. Many other women are still seeking commitment from alphas well into their 30s or even 40s and end up putting up higher notch count as penis carousel riders.