I had my first date in ages. Here's the good and the bad.

[corrector]

I won't even go out for dinner this weekend. No point of going out by myself. I'm going to eat in.

Suit yourself. In my mind, that would be exactly the point. If I was an escortceller with allot of money, I'd pay the escort to go out for dinner with me and then have fun afterwards. It's all guaranteed. I'm assuming you are on a budget with this? If I was on a budget, then I'd go out for dinner or do anything I would have planned to do with the lady, and do it by myself and bring a mobile device and headphones to zone-out if it was bothering me that much and then go there afterwards. After all, why would you care about what anyone things about you going by yourself to a dinner if you are going to visit an escort afterwards anyway? Doesn't that play with an escort afterwards more than make-up any awkwardness you might feel on a solo-date?

I wouldn't say using escorts has spoiled me. Using escorts has given me what every man deserves: Getting sex without having to play a woman's stupid games.

I mean in the sense of being less motivated to pursuing "civvies". We've just concluded that if a "civvie" plays games with you that you can visit an escort afterwards. If you have that much control over your sexual outcomes it won't matter if she plays games with you or not because you have a plan-B.

This was the 3rd date I've been on since discovering escorts 8 and a half years ago. Of the 3 dates, only one led to sex.

That's not frequent enough. Lets say you had 5 high-quality rejections from "civvies" per year, and times it by 8, then that should be 40. In that case I would not say there is spoilage because you are putting a reasonable effort. When you are saying just 3 times (I'm assuming 3 different women). That suggests spoilage in terms it's affecting your motivations. Don't you think an escort visit should be earned by having rejection points with "civvies"? It makes the visit more meaningful rather than spoiling your motivation.

There's a reason I didn't go straight to an escort after striking out last weekend. Even before she mentioned wanting another dinner date this weekend, the date went well enough I was pretty confident I'd end up having another date with her. I sincerely thought I'd get sex on the 2nd date.

You could have gone when she wavered on the text messaging. Rather than tell her its not working out or you are not getting along, you could have used that same text and messaged an escort. Whatever right? Then circle back to her afterwards and set up a date. You know if you didn't act up like that with her, you could have had it on the second?

Tell me if I'm getting this wrong?

Where escortceling comes in is: Once it becomes clear there will be no sex with a civvie.

Agreed.

And yeah, the fact I have escorts to fall back on makes me care less about striking out with a civvie.

Exactly. In the future don't write anything negative to a "civvie". Just text an escort and circle back and continue setting up the date rather than saying you are not getting along. That is the abundance mindset. Someone with abundance and paid options will not tell a "civvie" they are not getting along but will text an escort instead.

 

[GoodMan32]

Your mindset here is totally correct. You'll find that a good amount of stress and unhappiness men are experiencing originates from their relationships and interactions with women. Your interactions with women should be an overall enjoyable experience that adds some sort of value to your life. This is especially the case for when you are in the early dating phases of a relationship, going out on dates should be fun in my opinion.

Unfortunately, more often than not the majority of dating experiences men are experiencing today are the opposite. Disregarding how messed up the overall market in the dating world is and how excessively fussy/picky most women are, there are tons of other issues. First, many men are honestly going for very long periods of time without having even gone on a first date, let alone had one that lead to more than that. This is not a good thing for men because they often approach the dating environment a bit too intense and serious due to being on such a long drought. The blunt answer for this is because if this first date doesn't lead to anything more it could literally be months before you get another shot, anyone in a scenario like this would behave in a similar fashion.

Here is something else that I've noticed from the female side of things. Women are incredibly fussy and have an overabundance of options. A woman today may have more potential suitors in one month than a women prior to the advent of the internet may have had in an entire lifetime. This makes them far more selective with the men they even give a real chance to in the first place, whether this be actually going out on a date with them or even just messaging back and forth. To add to this, I've noticed that women often seem far to readily eager to immediately next men for honestly trivial reasons. It literally could be stupid **** like texting too much or too little, something I've seen actually quite a few times. It could be literally a million different things because they believe that they can find this perfect guy that in reality doesn't exist. They may want a guy that is 6'+, fit, sober and stable but she doesn't like the tone of one guy's voice or another guy's sense of humor or anything you can think of. At the end of it all, they end up serial dating, which actually just furthers this spiral, or they end up settling for something that seems passable when 30 starts approaching.

Side note to all of this. There is nothing wrong with seeing escorts but I believe that doing so on some sort of regular basis as your only means of sex is not a good thing for men. I think it warps your expectations of how fast things lead to sex or more serious interactions with women, which can lead to you becoming quite impatient and perhaps come across as needy or excessively pushy. This is going to be off putting to many women and they may quickly cut a guy off like this unless they are very desperate or needy themselves or highly attracted to you in the first place.

With all of this out of the way, this woman probably wasn't all that highly interested in the first place. I don't mean this as an insult but 90% of the time a man is confused about a woman or feeling the need to write a thread about one on a forum this default answer is the right one lol. Again, I don't say this as an insult, as I've been in the same spot and can relate with a lot of what you've mentioned on here.

I'm glad you agree I shouldn't tolerate stress with a woman.

You're 100% correct when you say a lot of guys know they could be in for a long drought if they don't impress a woman during the first date.

Then I totally agree when you say a woman will "next" a guy for the most trivial reasons. Your examples of texting too much (or too little) go to show: There's really no one size fits all. Some women might want minimal texting. Some might want lots of texting.

What works on one woman, might get you nexted by another woman.

Lastly, I'm going to address the escort thing. I'm not an escort addict like some guys are. I utilize escorts, at most, twice a month. Then it's not unheard of for me to go months without an escort.

I don't think my escort habit makes me impatient when it comes to sex. If anything, it has the opposite effect. Before I discovered escorts, I was super pushy/impatient when it came to sex (because I had no fallback options). Discovering escorts turned out to be a lifesaver. I no longer get as desperate/pushy/impatient when pursuing a non-paid woman, because I know I can always fall back on an escort if need be.

 

[GoodMan32]

This looks like she wanted you to lead more. You could've deflected her questions, tell her the dinner location would be a surprise et cetera. Giving her a list of restaurants you like means you are giving her a choice, which means she has to take action choosing the restaurant. If you're afraid she doesn't like the food, you can always ask her about food allergies.
Also, never tell a woman how you make decisions and why, when it's not absolutely necessary to motivate your decision.


Sounds like you went for the cliche (dinner) when that is usually a high investment date and rarely a first date. Better first date would be to tell her you can have drinks later (after 21.00 hours) and keep the date short so she has to work a bit more to get you invested.

The list of restaurants was pretty lengthy (I would estimate maybe 6 restaurants). I was still going to make the final choice the day of. All I wanted to know was whether any of the 6 or so restaurants were totally off limits.

Asking her about food allergies is beside the point. You can dislike a food even if you're not allergic to it. Surprising a woman with a restaurant you're not even sure if she'll like is risky. What if she ends up hating the food? You can kiss any chance at sex goodbye.

 

[sangheilios]

I'm glad you agree I shouldn't tolerate stress with a woman.

You're 100% correct when you say a lot of guys know they could be in for a long drought if they don't impress a woman during the first date.

Then I totally agree when you say a woman will "next" a guy for the most trivial reasons. Your examples of texting too much (or too little) go to show: There's really no one size fits all. Some women might want minimal texting. Some might want lots of texting.

What works on one woman, might get you nexted by another woman.

Lastly, I'm going to address the escort thing. I'm not an escort addict like some guys are. I utilize escorts, at most, twice a month. Then it's not unheard of for me to go months without an escort.

I don't think my escort habit makes me impatient when it comes to sex. If anything, it has the opposite effect. Before I discovered escorts, I was super pushy/impatient when it came to sex (because I had no fallback options). Discovering escorts turned out to be a lifesaver. I no longer get as desperate/pushy/impatient when pursuing a non-paid woman, because I know I can always fall back on an escort if need be.

I honestly wouldn't worry too much about this one particular woman and why things didn't pan out for you the way you were originally hoping for. What you are discussing here is the normal experience for the vast majority of men out there today. People are quick to blame the man but I personally believe that most of these pre date rejections with initial reactions that go well are almost entirely because of the woman and what is going on with her side. Maybe some other guy that was higher up on her list of interest hit her up that same given day? Maybe her dog got ran over by a car? Maybe she just didn't like the way you sent a particular text? The list goes on and on, you'll never get an actual answer and would be far better off just immediately moving on instead of trying to decipher what happened.

Again, what you are experiencing here is the normal experience for the vast majority of men out there. There is legitimately something wrong with most women today. Things become much simpler when you accept facts like this instead of chasing your own tail. Too many guys out there blame themselves when they simply are not aware of the realities of the modern dating market.

 

[sangheilios]

Cracks me up how people here try to find reason and logic for her behavior and blame OP for every minutiae, totally ignoring the other half of the equation - a mid to late 30s woman.
If she was a clinically sane woman in that age range she would've been busy with work/husband/home/children and not stop and talk to a random guy off the street and go to dinner with him.

This is a really good point lol. The reality is that he was still ultimately a stranger, no normal woman is going to seriously devote a ton of time into meeting up. She probably enjoyed the initial random interaction and agreed to swap contact information. However, over time she loses interest as she goes back about her daily life and at some point just decides meeting up is not really worth the effort. I've noticed that a lot of rejections men seem to have play out something similar to this, where they actually get contact information and have a back and forth only for it to not follow through. I believe that flat out rejections from women are pretty unusual to be honest, and this includes real world interactions and not just through online, dating apps, etc. I've approached women at the gym before and literally said "well it was nice to meet you" after being rejected but only for a woman to continue to go OUT of her way to interact with me lol.

 

[corrector]

I don't think my escort habit makes me impatient when it comes to sex. If anything, it has the opposite effect. Before I discovered escorts, I was super pushy/impatient when it came to sex (because I had no fallback options). Discovering escorts turned out to be a lifesaver. I no longer get as desperate/pushy/impatient when pursuing a non-paid woman, because I know I can always fall back on an escort if need be.

I disagree in the sense that you may not be getting as desperate/pushy/impatient because it's not enough to just avoid going to jail or making a nasty scene, but also not to shoot yourself on the foot when it comes to dating opportunities. You shoot yourself on the foot rather than having potential second date this weekend.

 

[GoodMan32]

Can you tell us you age, weight, height and what yo do for a living?

I am in my early 30s. My weight fluctuates (but has always been below 150). I am 5 foot 9.

I work in a small field (so I don't want to say). What I will say, however: I work in an office. I make less than 40k per year.

Plot twist: She just reached out to me.

 

[corrector]

I make less than 40k per year.

Okay, now I get why it's once or twice a month.

 

[member162951]

I have a very low tolerance for stress. The moment a woman starts adding stress to my life, I immediately look for an exit plan.

To me, the only purpose of a woman is to take away stress. That's why once this woman started to become more stress than she was worth, I made a bail attempt.

Good luck finding that unicorn who never causes anxiety, is 150% compliant, submissive, always around and agreeable, never leaves you hanging on a text for longer than 10 minutes as that is when your stress/anxiety is activated, etc etc etc.

Look mate, if you can't handle a little uncertainty when you first begin dating, you're gonna have A LOT of trouble dating. You'll be bailing prematurely, nothing is ever going to happen

Its not even the woman per se, it's the nature of dating especially during early stages. Uncertainty. It's a stage and it's a given man. We all go through it.

If you're seeking a guarantee that there will never be any uncertainty, anxiety or stress, then stick with the escorts. They're infinitely safer.

On the other hand, if you're seeking a relationship or even casually dating a woman with emotions and feelings whom you want to actually connect with, get help for your anxiety and stop bailing out and running away.

Once you're over the initial hump of early dating, the uncertainty and anxiety will lessen, you'll feel more secure and safe emotionally, less stress.

 

[BillyPilgrim]

Good luck finding that unicorn who never causes anxiety, is 150% compliant, submissive, always around and agreeable, never leaves you hanging on a text for longer than 10 minutes as that is when your stress/anxiety is activated, etc etc etc.

Look mate, if you can't handle a little uncertainty when you first begin dating, you're gonna have A LOT of trouble dating. You'll be bailing prematurely, nothing is ever going to happen

Its not even the woman per se, it's the nature of dating especially during early stages. Uncertainty. It's a stage and it's a given man. We all go through it.

If you're seeking a guarantee that there will never be any uncertainty, anxiety or stress, then stick with the escorts. They're infinitely safer.

On the other hand, if you're seeking a relationship or even casually dating a woman with emotions and feelings whom you want to actually connect with, get help for your anxiety and stop bailing out and running away.

Once you're over the initial hump of early dating, the uncertainty and anxiety will lessen, you'll feel more secure and safe emotionally, less stress.

Sir, screening for high interest is your friend.

 

[GoodMan32]

Cracks me up how people here try to find reason and logic for her behavior and blame OP for every minutiae, totally ignoring the other half of the equation - a mid to late 30s woman.
If she was a clinically sane woman in that age range she would've been busy with work/husband/home/children and not stop and talk to a random guy off the street and go to dinner with him.

Good point (which I hadn't even thought of). As glad as I am at how easy she was to grab dinner with last weekend, the fact a woman that age agreed to grab dinner right after meeting a guy should have been a red flag of mental illness.

 

[GoodMan32]

Good thing escorts and therapists exist

My comment sounded intense, I know.

That being said, I was:

-21 years old
-incredibly socially awkward
-I had been looking forward to the date (and really thought I'd get action)
-I had no idea where my next lay would come from (this was before I discovered escorts)
-then on top of all this, my sex drive was at its peak

Just like you become desperate when you don't know where your next meal or paycheck will come from, you also become desperate if you don't know where your next lay will come from.

Anyone would end up pretty angry if a possibility to get laid fell through under the circumstances mentioned above. And even then, it wasn't so much the fact the date fell through that set me off, but how rude she was about the whole thing when I reached out the day of to confirm whether we were still on.

Again, the fact I don't want to end up behind bars stopped me from really killing her. I still ended up teaching her a lesson, however.

 

[GoodMan32]

Suit yourself. In my mind, that would be exactly the point. If I was an escortceller with allot of money, I'd pay the escort to go out for dinner with me and then have fun afterwards. It's all guaranteed. I'm assuming you are on a budget with this? If I was on a budget, then I'd go out for dinner or do anything I would have planned to do with the lady, and do it by myself and bring a mobile device and headphones to zone-out if it was bothering me that much and then go there afterwards. After all, why would you care about what anyone things about you going by yourself to a dinner if you are going to visit an escort afterwards anyway? Doesn't that play with an escort afterwards more than make-up any awkwardness you might feel on a solo-date?




I mean in the sense of being less motivated to pursuing "civvies". We've just concluded that if a "civvie" plays games with you that you can visit an escort afterwards. If you have that much control over your sexual outcomes it won't matter if she plays games with you or not because you have a plan-B.



That's not frequent enough. Lets say you had 5 high-quality rejections from "civvies" per year, and times it by 8, then that should be 40. In that case I would not say there is spoilage because you are putting a reasonable effort. When you are saying just 3 times (I'm assuming 3 different women). That suggests spoilage in terms it's affecting your motivations. Don't you think an escort visit should be earned by having rejection points with "civvies"? It makes the visit more meaningful rather than spoiling your motivation.



You could have gone when she wavered on the text messaging. Rather than tell her its not working out or you are not getting along, you could have used that same text and messaged an escort. Whatever right? Then circle back to her afterwards and set up a date. You know if you didn't act up like that with her, you could have had it on the second?

Tell me if I'm getting this wrong?



Agreed.



Exactly. In the future don't write anything negative to a "civvie". Just text an escort and circle back and continue setting up the date rather than saying you are not getting along. That is the abundance mindset. Someone with abundance and paid options will not tell a "civvie" they are not getting along but will text an escort instead.

Yeah, I'm on a budget. Plus, to me, going out to dinner is a social thing. If I'm by myself, I don't see a point of going out to eat.

And yeah, I totally lose my motivation to pursue civvies. You're right, I can always see an escort if a civvie plays games. So I see where your logic is coming from (when you say I should pursue civvies anyway, as I at least have a plan B if nothing comes of the civvie). That being said, my success rate with civvies is too low to justify even bothering with civvies. That's why I've only been on 3 dates in the past 8 and a half years (and to answer your question, yeah, with 3 different women).

Furthermore, the amount of time I've put into civvie pursuals in the past simply isn't worth it when I know I can get a sure thing from an escort.

On the general topic of buying an escort to treat myself after striking out with a civvie, there was a time when I was 24 and I hired an escort after a dating service refused to let me join.

I guess it's too late to go back and change my behavior from Wednesday. One reason I didn't contact an escort on Wednesday, however: I really only have time for escorts on weekends.

On a prior post, I think I mentioned the woman the thread is about finally reached back out to me yesterday. The bad news, she came up with excuses when I proposed getting together this weekend. I'm done trying with her. I'm probably going to get an escort this weekend.

 

[GoodMan32]

I honestly wouldn't worry too much about this one particular woman and why things didn't pan out for you the way you were originally hoping for. What you are discussing here is the normal experience for the vast majority of men out there today. People are quick to blame the man but I personally believe that most of these pre date rejections with initial reactions that go well are almost entirely because of the woman and what is going on with her side. Maybe some other guy that was higher up on her list of interest hit her up that same given day? Maybe her dog got ran over by a car? Maybe she just didn't like the way you sent a particular text? The list goes on and on, you'll never get an actual answer and would be far better off just immediately moving on instead of trying to decipher what happened.

Again, what you are experiencing here is the normal experience for the vast majority of men out there. There is legitimately something wrong with most women today. Things become much simpler when you accept facts like this instead of chasing your own tail. Too many guys out there blame themselves when they simply are not aware of the realities of the modern dating market.

Another thing is the key difference between the wiring of men vs women.

If a man is into a woman, he looks for reasons to bang her. He'll be interested in banging her this weekend, next weekend, a month from now, 6 months from now, etc.

There's hardly anything a woman can do to make a man lose interest in banging her.

On the other hand, when a woman is into a man, no matter how much she's into him, he's constantly at risk of getting his contingent romp revoked for the slightest transgression.

Additionally, I have a theory that a lot of women have a "now or never" window (where you have to propose a lay with her right then or lose your chance forever)

 

[GoodMan32]

Good luck finding that unicorn who never causes anxiety, is 150% compliant, submissive, always around and agreeable, never leaves you hanging on a text for longer than 10 minutes as that is when your stress/anxiety is activated, etc etc etc.

Look mate, if you can't handle a little uncertainty when you first begin dating, you're gonna have A LOT of trouble dating. You'll be bailing prematurely, nothing is ever going to happen

Its not even the woman per se, it's the nature of dating especially during early stages. Uncertainty. It's a stage and it's a given man. We all go through it.

If you're seeking a guarantee that there will never be any uncertainty, anxiety or stress, then stick with the escorts. They're infinitely safer.

On the other hand, if you're seeking a relationship or even casually dating a woman with emotions and feelings whom you want to actually connect with, get help for your anxiety and stop bailing out and running away.

Once you're over the initial hump of early dating, the uncertainty and anxiety will lessen, you'll feel more secure and safe emotionally, less stress.

Good point, dating probably isn't for me. There's a reason I've only been on 3 dates in the past 8 and a half years.

My low tolerance for stress extends to other areas too. I've turned down several promotions at various jobs through the years. Why? Because of the stress that would come with the promotion.

Another area where my low tolerance for stress impacts me: If I get into an argument at night, I'm unable to fall asleep at all. I end up having a sleepless night. Even with the 2 sleeping pills I take every night.

I'd totally be down for a lay with a civvie if the lay basically falls into my lap (no pun intended). As for dating though, you're right, it's probably best I stick to escorts.

 

[corrector]

Yeah, I'm on a budget. Plus, to me, going out to dinner is a social thing. If I'm by myself, I don't see a point of going out to eat.

And yeah, I totally lose my motivation to pursue civvies. You're right, I can always see an escort if a civvie plays games. So I see where your logic is coming from (when you say I should pursue civvies anyway, as I at least have a plan B if nothing comes of the civvie). That being said, my success rate with civvies is too low to justify even bothering with civvies. That's why I've only been on 3 dates in the past 8 and a half years (and to answer your question, yeah, with 3 different women).

Furthermore, the amount of time I've put into civvie pursuals in the past simply isn't worth it when I know I can get a sure thing from an escort.

On the general topic of buying an escort to treat myself after striking out with a civvie, there was a time when I was 24 and I hired an escort after a dating service refused to let me join.

I guess it's too late to go back and change my behavior from Wednesday. One reason I didn't contact an escort on Wednesday, however: I really only have time for escorts on weekends.

On a prior post, I think I mentioned the woman the thread is about finally reached back out to me yesterday. The bad news, she came up with excuses when I proposed getting together this weekend. I'm done trying with her. I'm probably going to get an escort this weekend.

According to the logical scheme, do not worry if she comes with excuses, just keep the door open because you are planning to see an escort anyway. Once you get your fix then you will be in a better state of mind to deal with her bs and keep trying. Keep tryimg until you find a better civvie option. Its like a bad job. You dont quit it because you need to pay the bills until you secure a better job. Keep looking for more civvies but keep that lady open. Its not like you really need.her, but when she comes around then you will have a free lay for a change. I think its healthy to have at least a free lay here and there in the mix. Too feel desired by a woman who wants you to go inside of her because she likes you. Its worth keeping her in tow while you continue getting your base needs met.

You can also try escorts who are also on OF/OF girls or AI (have not tried it), to hold you over between escort visits. You just need more commection between sessions and OF looks like a good direction for fake gf connections to zone out civvie bs.

 

[corrector]

@GoodMan32 for the record how much carry over bliss are you getting from an average paid escort? With me it feels like a nuke will be set off somewhere in my life if I were to visit one, lol! Its possible I may be processing an ideal of this rather than how these things are with someone used to that.

 

[GoodMan32]

According to the logical scheme, do not worry if she comes with excuses, just keep the door open because you are planning to see an escort anyway. Once you get your fix then you will be in a better state of mind to deal with her bs and keep trying. Keep tryimg until you find a better civvie option. Its like a bad job. You dont quit it because you need to pay the bills until you secure a better job. Keep looking for more civvies but keep that lady open. Its not like you really need.her, but when she comes around then you will have a free lay for a change. I think its healthy to have at least a free lay here and there in the mix. Too feel desired by a woman who wants you to go inside of her because she likes you. Its worth keeping her in tow while you continue getting your base needs met.

You can also try escorts who are also on OF/OF girls or AI (have not tried it), to hold you over between escort visits. You just need more commection between sessions and OF looks like a good direction for fake gf connections to zone out civvie bs.

I'm totally open to a lay with the woman I met last weekend. However, it's up to her at this point to reach out to me/invite me to get together with her. I'm never inviting her anywhere again, nor am I ever making the initial contact with her again.

Since she turned down the 2 ideas I had (for getting together) this weekend, I don't want to make myself look desperate. Plus, it's important to read the social cue of when to back off.

You're right, feeling desired by a woman is a self-esteem booster. I'm still on somewhat of a high from the woman I had free sex with in 2021. Before then, it had been 6 years since the last time a woman had sex with me out of true desire.

As for the general topic of civvies, there have been female coworkers I've flirted with (being work, I have to make sure I flirt in a way that could be passed off as mere friendliness, so as to avoid a complaint if she's not digging me). Then there have been a few women in my personal life who have dropped hints of maybe being into me.

For some guys, your OF strategy is ideal. For me though? One reason I use escorts is so I don't have to talk to her in between lays.

 

[GoodMan32]

@GoodMan32 for the record how much carry over bliss are you getting from an average paid escort? With me it feels like a nuke will be set off somewhere in my life if I were to visit one, lol! Its possible I may be processing an ideal of this rather than how these things are with someone used to that.

I wouldn't say there's a whole lot of carryover bliss.

Carryover bliss isn't why I utilize escorts. I utilize escorts to prevent myself from getting overly thirsty.

 

[GoodMan32]

@GoodMan32 for the record how much carry over bliss are you getting from an average paid escort? With me it feels like a nuke will be set off somewhere in my life if I were to visit one, lol! Its possible I may be processing an ideal of this rather than how these things are with someone used to that.

On the topic of escorts, I just started cruising an escort website, looking for my weekend escort. I came across a first: An escort's ad that says she ONLY sees black men (I point this out because we've discussed before how a lot of escorts refuse to see black men)