I had my first date in ages. Here's the good and the bad.

[GoodMan32]

Why didn't you take her back to your place for sex? Talking after dinner -- good option for nightcap at your place.



You are going to get laid this weekend if you directly pay for sex. Your indirect payment for sex with a dinner didn't work out for you.

As for why I didn't invite her over.

1. I didn't want to look desperate.
2. Since I've mainly relied on escorts to get laid for 8 and a half years now, I've pretty much lost the ability to sense when a woman is dtf (and my sensing skills were never tremendously sharp to begin with).

Regarding the nightcap, I don't have any alcohol at home anyway. For me, consuming alcohol is more of a social thing I do when I'm out (we both had one drink during dinner).

You're right, I'm going to get laid if I directly pay for sex this weekend. The dinner date last weekend ended up costing me about 40 dollars. Even if the dinner date this weekend were still on (and it ended up costing me 40 dollars again), 80 dollars is still cheaper than escorts. That's why I was willing to go the sex-via-dinner route.

With escorts, however, even though they're more expensive, you get a sure thing. Sex-via-dinner is never guaranteed.

 

[All_Kindz_Of_Gainz]

Well-said. It really is amazing. Guys that would have been viewed as the lowest of the low 100 years ago (or even 50 years ago) are somehow viewed as the biggest catches today.

Can you tell us you age, weight, height and what yo do for a living?

 

[pipeman84]

Cracks me up how people here try to find reason and logic for her behavior and blame OP for every minutiae, totally ignoring the other half of the equation - a mid to late 30s woman.
If she was a clinically sane woman in that age range she would've been busy with work/husband/home/children and not stop and talk to a random guy off the street and go to dinner with him.

 

[CornbreadFed]

Cracks me up how people here try to find reason and logic for her behavior and blame OP for every minutiae, totally ignoring the other half of the equation - a mid to late 30s woman.
If she was a clinically sane woman in that age range she would've been busy with work/husband/home/children and not stop and talk to a random guy off the street and go to dinner with him.

crazy women exist at all ages

 

[Robert28]

Fascinating (the fact you think she wasn't as interested in me as I was in her). Some others on here have said I didn't show enough interest in her.

I'm willing to admit I'm not always right. In this case, however, there is absolutely nothing anyone can say or do to convince me she was always low interest. In addition to all the other clues she gave of being high interest, here's perhaps the biggest clue: The fact she chatted with me outside for 2 and a half hours after the first date. No low interest woman does that.

Yea they do actually. I’ve been on many dates where the woman wasn’t eager to go home and never got a second date. Women are masters at faking interest. I had to learn that the hard way.

 

[GoodMan32]

Do you watch a lot of pr0n? Do you work out? Usually after a lot of brain stimulation it comes to a point where watching people having sex is not enough and then the next step is escorts or so I read somewhere.

I guess another thing is this girl led the whole interaction from the second she spoke to you. She initiated the text conversations, the meet up, etc. As for you, you invited her to dinner. So the question here is what did you want from her? What did you want to do with her? What was the objective?

She seemed to be fair game but there was a lot of hesitation. She didn’t know if you wanted her as a friend or romantic interest. However, if you didn’t like her that it is fair too. You shouldn’t persue things you don’t want. But again, what did you want?

In my younger days, I watched a lot of porn. Not so much anymore. Once you've had as much sex as I've had, porn largely becomes boring/pointless. The real thing is better.

I've gone back and forth with working out. I don't currently work out.

As for why I utilize escorts: Mainly because it's guaranteed sex.

Another added bonus: Escorts are far more likely to indulge in my fetish (Pretty simple fetish, I like to watch a woman pee. However, I've had multiple non-paid women refuse to let me watch. I've only ever had one escort refuse to let me watch).

As for what I wanted, we never exactly discussed what either of us wanted. For all I know, maybe she was only looking for a friend (I say this because going to dinner with a guy you just met sounds like it could be a friend thing). I would have been fine with friendship if that was all she wanted.

Obviously I also would have taken sex.

Then while I'm not necessarily looking for a girlfriend, I'd be willing to try out a relationship with the right woman. I have certain quirks the vast majority of the female population would never tolerate. The woman this thread is about, however? I mentioned some of my quirks on the first date. She was fine with the quirks I mentioned. I saw dating potential in her. If the 2nd date were still on, I'm pretty sure I would have found out more on what exactly she's looking for.

 

[GoodMan32]

How did you meet her? If a woman want to go for dinner on the first date, it's usually a bad sign.

Her dog came up to me in public. That's seriously how we met. Sounds absurd, I know.

 

[LTG71]

I have a very low tolerance for stress. The moment a woman starts adding stress to my life, I immediately look for an exit plan.

To me, the only purpose of a woman is to take away stress. That's why once this woman started to become more stress than she was worth, I made a bail attempt.

We had a company party yesterday and an ex I never dated asked if I was going. I decided not to go because I seriously had work commitments that are due by the end of the month, but more that I didn’t care to listen to her drama. The older I get, the less I care to listen to people with negative energy. There are other women at work that are always smiling, laughing and pleasant to be around. That is the energy I want to be around. I’ve retired from being an emotional tampon for women that bring me no benefits.

 

[GoodMan32]

Yeah, you could have the dinner by yourself instead and do that later. Plan-B right?



Do you think that has spoiled you?



How many dates with "civvie"s have you been in during the past 8 years, or are you actually saying this is the first date with a "civvie" in 8 years of escortcelling?



Do you think the outcome would have been different if you used an escort after that date last week if she didn't come home with you and you didn't seal the deal with her? I mean you got the blue-balls and instead of planning another dinner date, or have it come apart like that, isn't that where escortcelling would come in and actually have a constructive purpose?

While I'm not into it because I'm a Christian and there are other spiritual issues that would spook me out, I can see someone like you doing that as a band-aid for failed dates. Like if you can't get it from a "civvie" then that is like your Plan-B. But if you use that Plan-B, then it spoils you and it's unhealthy in the long-run because you don't have it in you to really fight for what you want in the dating market. In other words, this doesn't seem to co-exist as a dating back-up plan, or a reward back-up if the date doesn't go anywhere, but you reward yourself for trying. Don't you think that using a carrot like that should be better utilized for not caring as much about outcomes with "civvies' since you have the sure thing anyway?

I won't even go out for dinner this weekend. No point of going out by myself. I'm going to eat in.

I wouldn't say using escorts has spoiled me. Using escorts has given me what every man deserves: Getting sex without having to play a woman's stupid games.

This was the 3rd date I've been on since discovering escorts 8 and a half years ago. Of the 3 dates, only one led to sex.

There's a reason I didn't go straight to an escort after striking out last weekend. Even before she mentioned wanting another dinner date this weekend, the date went well enough I was pretty confident I'd end up having another date with her. I sincerely thought I'd get sex on the 2nd date.

Where escortceling comes in is: Once it becomes clear there will be no sex with a civvie.

And yeah, the fact I have escorts to fall back on makes me care less about striking out with a civvie. Back when I was in my early 20s (and hadn't discovered escorts yet), my reaction when I struck out with a civvie wasn't pretty. My sex drive was at its peak back then (and I had no backup plan). I went totally ballistic.

I even recall one particular strike-out when I was 21 where I was so angry, I wanted to track down and kill the broad. If it weren't for the fact I don't want to end up behind bars, I really think I would have done it.

Don't get me wrong, ever since becoming an escortcel, I still am upset when I blow it with a civvie (especially when I really thought I was going to get laid, like with the woman this thread is about). But not nearly as upset as I got in my early 20s.

 

[GoodMan32]

Sounds like half of the story.

A chick that blows up your phone and wants to see you and suddenly changes behavior it's because you fuc1ked up.

Probably over-pursuing you have not shared, and acting needy and weak. Typical behavior if you have not dated for ages.

Time to step up your game.

With all due respect, you contradict yourself.

You pointed out how she blew up my phone (which she did). Yet then you insinuate I over-pursued?

If anything, wasn't she the over-pursuer?

Not only did she blow up my phone (and pretty much beg me to go to dinner with her again); she also talked about gifts she wanted to give me. She offered me rides to various places, some of which are way out of her way (she knows I don't own a car).

Yet then within 4 days of meeting her, she wanted nothing to do with me. The whole thing doesn't make one iota of sense.

 

[Dr.Suave]

I even recall one particular strike-out when I was 21 where I was so angry, I wanted to track down and kill the broad.

Good thing escorts and therapists exist

 

[corrector]

I won't even go out for dinner this weekend. No point of going out by myself. I'm going to eat in.

Suit yourself. In my mind, that would be exactly the point. If I was an escortceller with allot of money, I'd pay the escort to go out for dinner with me and then have fun afterwards. It's all guaranteed. I'm assuming you are on a budget with this? If I was on a budget, then I'd go out for dinner or do anything I would have planned to do with the lady, and do it by myself and bring a mobile device and headphones to zone-out if it was bothering me that much and then go there afterwards. After all, why would you care about what anyone things about you going by yourself to a dinner if you are going to visit an escort afterwards anyway? Doesn't that play with an escort afterwards more than make-up any awkwardness you might feel on a solo-date?

I wouldn't say using escorts has spoiled me. Using escorts has given me what every man deserves: Getting sex without having to play a woman's stupid games.

I mean in the sense of being less motivated to pursuing "civvies". We've just concluded that if a "civvie" plays games with you that you can visit an escort afterwards. If you have that much control over your sexual outcomes it won't matter if she plays games with you or not because you have a plan-B.

This was the 3rd date I've been on since discovering escorts 8 and a half years ago. Of the 3 dates, only one led to sex.

That's not frequent enough. Lets say you had 5 high-quality rejections from "civvies" per year, and times it by 8, then that should be 40. In that case I would not say there is spoilage because you are putting a reasonable effort. When you are saying just 3 times (I'm assuming 3 different women). That suggests spoilage in terms it's affecting your motivations. Don't you think an escort visit should be earned by having rejection points with "civvies"? It makes the visit more meaningful rather than spoiling your motivation.

There's a reason I didn't go straight to an escort after striking out last weekend. Even before she mentioned wanting another dinner date this weekend, the date went well enough I was pretty confident I'd end up having another date with her. I sincerely thought I'd get sex on the 2nd date.

You could have gone when she wavered on the text messaging. Rather than tell her its not working out or you are not getting along, you could have used that same text and messaged an escort. Whatever right? Then circle back to her afterwards and set up a date. You know if you didn't act up like that with her, you could have had it on the second?

Tell me if I'm getting this wrong?

Where escortceling comes in is: Once it becomes clear there will be no sex with a civvie.

Agreed.

And yeah, the fact I have escorts to fall back on makes me care less about striking out with a civvie.

Exactly. In the future don't write anything negative to a "civvie". Just text an escort and circle back and continue setting up the date rather than saying you are not getting along. That is the abundance mindset. Someone with abundance and paid options will not tell a "civvie" they are not getting along but will text an escort instead.

 

[GoodMan32]

Your mindset here is totally correct. You'll find that a good amount of stress and unhappiness men are experiencing originates from their relationships and interactions with women. Your interactions with women should be an overall enjoyable experience that adds some sort of value to your life. This is especially the case for when you are in the early dating phases of a relationship, going out on dates should be fun in my opinion.

Unfortunately, more often than not the majority of dating experiences men are experiencing today are the opposite. Disregarding how messed up the overall market in the dating world is and how excessively fussy/picky most women are, there are tons of other issues. First, many men are honestly going for very long periods of time without having even gone on a first date, let alone had one that lead to more than that. This is not a good thing for men because they often approach the dating environment a bit too intense and serious due to being on such a long drought. The blunt answer for this is because if this first date doesn't lead to anything more it could literally be months before you get another shot, anyone in a scenario like this would behave in a similar fashion.

Here is something else that I've noticed from the female side of things. Women are incredibly fussy and have an overabundance of options. A woman today may have more potential suitors in one month than a women prior to the advent of the internet may have had in an entire lifetime. This makes them far more selective with the men they even give a real chance to in the first place, whether this be actually going out on a date with them or even just messaging back and forth. To add to this, I've noticed that women often seem far to readily eager to immediately next men for honestly trivial reasons. It literally could be stupid **** like texting too much or too little, something I've seen actually quite a few times. It could be literally a million different things because they believe that they can find this perfect guy that in reality doesn't exist. They may want a guy that is 6'+, fit, sober and stable but she doesn't like the tone of one guy's voice or another guy's sense of humor or anything you can think of. At the end of it all, they end up serial dating, which actually just furthers this spiral, or they end up settling for something that seems passable when 30 starts approaching.

Side note to all of this. There is nothing wrong with seeing escorts but I believe that doing so on some sort of regular basis as your only means of sex is not a good thing for men. I think it warps your expectations of how fast things lead to sex or more serious interactions with women, which can lead to you becoming quite impatient and perhaps come across as needy or excessively pushy. This is going to be off putting to many women and they may quickly cut a guy off like this unless they are very desperate or needy themselves or highly attracted to you in the first place.

With all of this out of the way, this woman probably wasn't all that highly interested in the first place. I don't mean this as an insult but 90% of the time a man is confused about a woman or feeling the need to write a thread about one on a forum this default answer is the right one lol. Again, I don't say this as an insult, as I've been in the same spot and can relate with a lot of what you've mentioned on here.

I'm glad you agree I shouldn't tolerate stress with a woman.

You're 100% correct when you say a lot of guys know they could be in for a long drought if they don't impress a woman during the first date.

Then I totally agree when you say a woman will "next" a guy for the most trivial reasons. Your examples of texting too much (or too little) go to show: There's really no one size fits all. Some women might want minimal texting. Some might want lots of texting.

What works on one woman, might get you nexted by another woman.

Lastly, I'm going to address the escort thing. I'm not an escort addict like some guys are. I utilize escorts, at most, twice a month. Then it's not unheard of for me to go months without an escort.

I don't think my escort habit makes me impatient when it comes to sex. If anything, it has the opposite effect. Before I discovered escorts, I was super pushy/impatient when it came to sex (because I had no fallback options). Discovering escorts turned out to be a lifesaver. I no longer get as desperate/pushy/impatient when pursuing a non-paid woman, because I know I can always fall back on an escort if need be.

 

[GoodMan32]

This looks like she wanted you to lead more. You could've deflected her questions, tell her the dinner location would be a surprise et cetera. Giving her a list of restaurants you like means you are giving her a choice, which means she has to take action choosing the restaurant. If you're afraid she doesn't like the food, you can always ask her about food allergies.
Also, never tell a woman how you make decisions and why, when it's not absolutely necessary to motivate your decision.


Sounds like you went for the cliche (dinner) when that is usually a high investment date and rarely a first date. Better first date would be to tell her you can have drinks later (after 21.00 hours) and keep the date short so she has to work a bit more to get you invested.

The list of restaurants was pretty lengthy (I would estimate maybe 6 restaurants). I was still going to make the final choice the day of. All I wanted to know was whether any of the 6 or so restaurants were totally off limits.

Asking her about food allergies is beside the point. You can dislike a food even if you're not allergic to it. Surprising a woman with a restaurant you're not even sure if she'll like is risky. What if she ends up hating the food? You can kiss any chance at sex goodbye.

 

[sangheilios]

I'm glad you agree I shouldn't tolerate stress with a woman.

You're 100% correct when you say a lot of guys know they could be in for a long drought if they don't impress a woman during the first date.

Then I totally agree when you say a woman will "next" a guy for the most trivial reasons. Your examples of texting too much (or too little) go to show: There's really no one size fits all. Some women might want minimal texting. Some might want lots of texting.

What works on one woman, might get you nexted by another woman.

Lastly, I'm going to address the escort thing. I'm not an escort addict like some guys are. I utilize escorts, at most, twice a month. Then it's not unheard of for me to go months without an escort.

I don't think my escort habit makes me impatient when it comes to sex. If anything, it has the opposite effect. Before I discovered escorts, I was super pushy/impatient when it came to sex (because I had no fallback options). Discovering escorts turned out to be a lifesaver. I no longer get as desperate/pushy/impatient when pursuing a non-paid woman, because I know I can always fall back on an escort if need be.

I honestly wouldn't worry too much about this one particular woman and why things didn't pan out for you the way you were originally hoping for. What you are discussing here is the normal experience for the vast majority of men out there today. People are quick to blame the man but I personally believe that most of these pre date rejections with initial reactions that go well are almost entirely because of the woman and what is going on with her side. Maybe some other guy that was higher up on her list of interest hit her up that same given day? Maybe her dog got ran over by a car? Maybe she just didn't like the way you sent a particular text? The list goes on and on, you'll never get an actual answer and would be far better off just immediately moving on instead of trying to decipher what happened.

Again, what you are experiencing here is the normal experience for the vast majority of men out there. There is legitimately something wrong with most women today. Things become much simpler when you accept facts like this instead of chasing your own tail. Too many guys out there blame themselves when they simply are not aware of the realities of the modern dating market.

 

[sangheilios]

Cracks me up how people here try to find reason and logic for her behavior and blame OP for every minutiae, totally ignoring the other half of the equation - a mid to late 30s woman.
If she was a clinically sane woman in that age range she would've been busy with work/husband/home/children and not stop and talk to a random guy off the street and go to dinner with him.

This is a really good point lol. The reality is that he was still ultimately a stranger, no normal woman is going to seriously devote a ton of time into meeting up. She probably enjoyed the initial random interaction and agreed to swap contact information. However, over time she loses interest as she goes back about her daily life and at some point just decides meeting up is not really worth the effort. I've noticed that a lot of rejections men seem to have play out something similar to this, where they actually get contact information and have a back and forth only for it to not follow through. I believe that flat out rejections from women are pretty unusual to be honest, and this includes real world interactions and not just through online, dating apps, etc. I've approached women at the gym before and literally said "well it was nice to meet you" after being rejected but only for a woman to continue to go OUT of her way to interact with me lol.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

I feel like I have to spell this out to you, GoodMan32, because it's not the words, it's the tone that makes the music.

Asking her about food allergies is beside the point. You can dislike a food even if you're not allergic to it.

You start asking her about food allergies, then turn the conversation to food likes and dislikes.

Surprising a woman with a restaurant you're not even sure if she'll like is risky.

Not if you date adventurous women.
I make it a staple to take women places I haven't been before. And there are no guarantees: I took one of my kittens out for an evening walk in Amsterdam, we shared a poke bowl (she's not a big eater), and we ended up drinking at a Cafe-Restaurant.
My kitten reads the menu and she turns to me and says, 'Can we have dinner here next weekend?' I turn to the friendly waitress and reserve a table for two the next Friday evening.
Next Friday we arrive on time at the Cafe-Restaurant and a different waitress takes us to the absolute ****tiest table in the restaurant. I tell the waitress the table is unacceptable. She shrugs. I turn to my kitten and say, 'Let's go'. We walk out and my kitten says, 'What the hell do these people think you reserved a table for? Screw this place, I'll post a horrible review online.'

What if she ends up hating the food? You can kiss any chance at sex goodbye.

You didn't prep the food, so how can you be blamed for the quality?
Read the above: did my kitten blame me in any way for the fiasco? No, she didn't. She knew I had never dined at the place. We had both been impressed with their snacks and the menu looked good, but we didn't have a chance at tasting it because their staff were not doing them a good service (I tipped them well for the drinks and snacks the Saturday before).
We didn't let it spoil our evening, though. Amsterdam is full of restaurants, so we found a good Thai place to enjoy.

Sh!t happens and especially when you don't count on it. Even if the restaurant turns out to be horrible, that doesn't make it your fault. You may pick the restaurant, but many restaurants are pretty intense workplaces (ask any bartender / waiter in a popular spot), so there is a high changeover in personnel nowadays and the service and quality suffers. To my kitten, my refusal to be treated like a walk-in only showed her that I have standards and that I won't accept inferior service. I didn't make a fuss or a scene, I just showed them that I'd be spending my money in a place that deserves my patronage.

 

[corrector]

I don't think my escort habit makes me impatient when it comes to sex. If anything, it has the opposite effect. Before I discovered escorts, I was super pushy/impatient when it came to sex (because I had no fallback options). Discovering escorts turned out to be a lifesaver. I no longer get as desperate/pushy/impatient when pursuing a non-paid woman, because I know I can always fall back on an escort if need be.

I disagree in the sense that you may not be getting as desperate/pushy/impatient because it's not enough to just avoid going to jail or making a nasty scene, but also not to shoot yourself on the foot when it comes to dating opportunities. You shoot yourself on the foot rather than having potential second date this weekend.

 

[GoodMan32]

Can you tell us you age, weight, height and what yo do for a living?

I am in my early 30s. My weight fluctuates (but has always been below 150). I am 5 foot 9.

I work in a small field (so I don't want to say). What I will say, however: I work in an office. I make less than 40k per year.

Plot twist: She just reached out to me.

 

[corrector]

I make less than 40k per year.

Okay, now I get why it's once or twice a month.