I had my first date in ages. Here's the good and the bad.

[I_have_BDE]

This past Saturday, I had my first date in ages.

Everything was going well. We chatted quite a bit on Sunday, Monday, and Tuesday (She reached out to me first on all 3 of those days). On Monday, she even asked me about getting dinner again this coming weekend (I said yeah). Then on Tuesday, she mentioned the topic again (she was wondering where exactly I wanted to go for dinner).

Yesterday, everything changed. She acted more and more annoyed as the day I went on. So around 6:30 pm, I finally told her "Maybe getting to know each other was a bad idea. I say this because it feels like we're not getting along as well today."

There was some back and forth afterwards (I can elaborate if anyone wants to know). Long story short, she wants nothing to do with me anymore.

This goes to show why I've relied mainly on escorts for the past 8 years. With escorts, there's no drama, nor is there any guesswork of whether you'll get laid (and no, I never even so much as kissed the woman this thread is about).

Was this from old? Sounds like a typical old date.

Also never do dinner for a first date. Something simple and cheap. If you click then schedule a real date.

 

[SW15]

Too much chatting, chatting should be done in person, cellphones are for logistics only.

Use chat/text to set logistics only.

Doesn’t work in 2023. You better learn to text often or you’ll get ghosted fast. That’s outdated **** from 2008.

Technological devices have always been hurdles for men. Plenty of men were struggling to manage landline phones in their interactions with women back in the 1980s-1990s.

Use of text messaging needs to be limited to logistics only, both in the early stages of dating and as interactions progress. Setting that precedent would be a part of Iron Rule of Tomassi #1 in establishing a frame.

Phone calls are a very different animal these days. Phone calls have been de-emphasized since text messaging became easier about 15 years ago. In some ways, phone calls are under-utilized. They can be a useful option once the relationship has escalated to a sexual level. Pre-sex, there are fewer use situations for phone calls. Additionally, Millennials have a reputation for being difficult to get on phone calls. I can't imagine that Gen Z is any better at using the phone for voice communication.

Was this from old? Sounds like a typical old date.

Also never do dinner for a first date. Something simple and cheap. If you click then schedule a real date.

Swipe apps are a great way to arrange low quality dates that are most likely to result in a ghosting/flaking and bad feelings. They create so many "one date, no sex, no second date" type interactions. If a man wants to avoid those types of interactions, it's best he chooses to arrange dates in another way.

There's a lot of content out there about why men need to avoid dinner dates in restaurants prior to sex. I stopped doing dinner dates prior to sex once I discovered the Manosphere and red pill content. I have enjoyed that. I'm amazed that there are men who still do early stage dinner dates in 2023. I keep thinking most men have heard about how awful early stage dinner dates are. It's even worse if men are doing dinner dates for first dates arranged from a swipe app.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Use chat/text to set logistics only.

Cannot believe this nonsense is still bandied about in 2023.

Do this if you want to get flaked on 90% of the time.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

Doesn’t work in 2023. You better learn to text often or you’ll get ghosted fast. That’s outdated **** from 2008.

I'm a professional writer, I know how to chat, probably better than you do. But when you're still in the dating phase, chatting too much will dry up the desire to meet. Anything a woman wants to know apart from logistics she will learn on the date, not through text messaging.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

Cannot believe this nonsense is still bandied about in 2023.

Do this if you want to get flaked on 90% of the time.

Never got flaked on setting logistics only. Must be an American problem.

 

[GoodMan32]

You may be seeking too deep of a connection too quickly. Less talking is probably better.

I hear ya. Typically I'd take this advice.

In her case, she was mostly the one to reach out to me for the short time we've known each other. So I followed her lead (I wasn't going to ignore her)

 

[BillyPilgrim]

I hear ya. Typically I'd take this advice.

In her case, she was mostly the one to reach out to me for the short time we've known each other. So I followed her lead (I wasn't going to ignore her)

Where was the first date OP, and how did you meet her?

 

[GoodMan32]

Too much chatting, chatting should be done in person, cellphones are for logistics only.


Pretty much she made plans, she invited you, she was the man, you didn't even suggested anyhting different, she held the frame of the interaction, maybe she was super interested in you, but, dinner is the most boring and unoriginal date there is, also it should be a reward for good behavior.

You should have done a fun date where drinks are involved, where you can touch her, tease her, play with her and escalate. How are you gonna escalate during dinner? touch her hand awkwardly while she's sitting on the other side? Giving her a kiss at the end of the night walking to her car?


She was just reflecting the lack of masculinity from your part onto you, bro. Too much talking, boring date, I'm assuming no escalation from your part, no putting you balls on the chopping block to try to kiss her, just more chatting.


Does this sound like a confident guy? You pretty much said, "Hey I'm sorry your highness for your emotions, but you getting annoyed is killing me inside, please forgive me for taking you on a dinner date, I shouldn't have done that, I should've known better that I'm out of your league"


No need, it continued like something like this: Hey, its not you, you're very nice, its just I'm going through $hit right now or my ex is stalking me, making my life a living hell, or my family is going through hard stuff, or I need to get my life in order, or I'm going through a hard stage in my life, but it was really nice meeting you, I'm not in a place of having a relationship right now, but we can still be friends.

If she reaches out to me (whether through call or text), what am I supposed to do? Ignore her? I chatted a lot with her because she kept reaching out to me.

I was planning on picking an exact venue this weekend (for dinner). On Tuesday, I had no idea what I'd be in the mood for this weekend. As for escalation, wherever we'd go was going to be within walking distance (we live in the downtown of a big city; tons of options). And just about every place around here serves drinks. There's a high chance we would have ended up in my place (or hers) at the end of the date.

 

[Robert28]

I'm a professional writer, I know how to chat, probably better than you do. But when you're still in the dating phase, chatting too much will dry up the desire to meet. Anything a woman wants to know apart from logistics she will learn on the date, not through text messaging.

The only way to combat texting for days is to set up the meeting after 2 days of getting her number. If you get the number Monday, by Tuesday you should be asking her to meet up with you on Wednesday or Thursday. That way you dint spend a whole week chatting over nothing.

 

[GoodMan32]

How did you meet her? What's her age?

I met her when her dog came up to me in public. I wasn't even looking for a date. Next thing I knew, we were going out to dinner.

She is in her mid to late 30s (for privacy, I don't want to say her exact age)

 

[MtmVaott]

I like that I'm not the only guy who get's these kind of reactions
I got that kind of reaction with women who were insecure and
where I either was not interested in her as a person but didn't admit it to myself since she was physically attractive and she was attracted by me
OR where there was a serious obstacle, for example a boyfriend, or me being attracted to her a LOT and being extremely nervous and behaving out of order.

I still get into these kind of situations, but these days I leave them earlier. The keyword here is "self respect".
Silver lining for me is to eject situations when I don't feel the "flow": not single yet willing to cheat but insecure about it -> bye. Hot and attracted to me but I can't stand her -> bye. Hot and attracted to me and I like her but she behaved desperately -> maybe we'll meet again, bye. Hot but condescending -> bye.
In every minute spent with such a woman you could have met a woman you enjoy your time with.

 

[pipeman84]

I met her when her dog came up to me in public. I wasn't even looking for a date. Next thing I knew, we were going out to dinner.
She is in her mid to late 30s (for privacy, I don't want to say her exact age)

Oh, so she drugged you and when you woke up, you were at a restaurant.
I see it like this: you made it formal (dinner date) too soon, without having time to vet her, see if she warrants that kind of attention from you. A mid to late 30s woman, most probably full of baggage, will only waste your time and give you headaches. If you want to explore new territory, then you should date quality prospects, otherwise stick to escorts where the deal is simple and straightforward.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

The only way to combat texting for days is to set up the meeting after 2 days of getting her number. If you get the number Monday, by Tuesday you should be asking her to meet up with you on Wednesday or Thursday. That way you dint spend a whole week chatting over nothing.

Uh, I didn't ask for a texting manual, but 'thanks', I guess.

 

[All_Kindz_Of_Gainz]

If she reaches out to me (whether through call or text), what am I supposed to do? Ignore her? I chatted a lot with her because she kept reaching out to me.

Yeah that's the typical thinking of the AFC, black or white, nothing in between.

Example of a convo when she reached out:

Her: Hey
You: Hey what's up how are you?
Her: I'm good, (writes whatever nonsense) and you how are you, wyd?
You: Good, just a little busy working on some projects here around the house. (Cause I imagine if you have a job, you should be busy and not using your phone)
Her: oh nice, what things are you doing?
You: Just a few home improvements. Don't forget to put on something sexy to impress me (insert day of the date). Talk to you later.

Done, 3 messages from you and got off the phone. But you didn't wanna cut it short because you wanted to keep talking to her, don't come with that bs bro.

 

[member162951]

you made it formal (dinner date) too soon, without having time to vet her.

I believe OP posted SHE initiated the dinner date.

On Monday, she even asked me about getting dinner again this coming weekend (I said yeah).

That said and assuming it's what you meant, OP could have suggested something more casual instead. Like drinks at a pub with cool music or something. Sit at the bar next to each other where the opportunity for escalating like kissing and touching is easier (don't tell her that lol) . Maybe share some apps.

Point is OP you need to control the frame, not her.

I agree with others, too much texting gets old and boring. But you should still text to schedule the date and once more prior to touch base, let her know you're still alive and thinking about her. Women really dig that in my experience. If she ends up doing it all, she'll come to resent it which I think is what happened here. And it all went downhill from there including your reaction.

If she texts you, keep it short. Tell her you're looking forward to your date. Remember YOU control the frame.

Not too much, not too little. Keep her wondering while indicating interest. Find the right balance and you're golden!

 

[Robert28]

Uh, I didn't ask for a texting manual, but 'thanks', I guess.

I didn’t ask for your resume earlier either but you gave it to me anyways. Being a professional writer dries up more women than texting too much does. But you’ll learn that eventually. Or not. I don’t care either way. Your attitude is your biggest problem.

 

[GoodMan32]

Yeah she was annoyed but not for the reason you think. She was annoyed by your apparent lack of interest, lack of escalation and her doing all the heavy lifting. All the reaching out and initiating all the dates, including the dinner date.



This was the final nail in the coffin. Confirming her suspicion that you lack the masculine frame she desires and needs to remain interested and attracted or you don't give a crap.

It was an emotional reaction. Learn the difference between that and a reaction based on non-interest.

Sorry man.

She ended up telling me she's dealing with a lot of work-related stuff (and her being upset had nothing to do with me).

Then when I attempted to backpeddle (and propose we continue our pursual of each other), it was too late. She took me up on the initial offer to stop speaking.

 

[GoodMan32]

If you go out with a woman you should know when it's over if you want to see her again. She gave you a few days of conversation to make plans and even tried to make them for you but, you for whatever reason, flaked on her and then acted weird.

If I go out with a woman and ask her out for another date anything other than a clear and definitive acceptance of my offer means they get nexted as there's no clearer sign of low interest.

I didn't flake on her. I told her I'm interested in getting dinner this coming weekend. I gave her a list of places (to make sure she likes all of my choices), then I told her I'd make a final decision on GameDay.

Give me a break; I have no idea on Tuesday what type of food I'm going to be in the mood for the coming weekend.

 

[GoodMan32]

Why do people need to get a long? Conflict is not the end of the world

Conflict isn't the end of the world, true. However, when you appear to no longer be getting along after less than a week of knowing each other, that's alarming (in a dating context at least)

 

[Robert28]

She ended up telling me she's dealing with a lot of work-related stuff (and her being upset had nothing to do with me).

Then when I attempted to backpeddle (and propose we continue our pursual of each other), it was too late. She took me up on the initial offer to stop speaking.

She had low interest this whole time. No high interest woman changes her mind about you that fast. The busy with work related stuff was an excuse, she was just too chicken**** to tell you she wasn’t interested in you as much as you were in her.