No real motivation to meet/date girls anymore

[AmsterdamAssassin]

1970s-1980s rock isn't popular with women who are 18-27 right now. They weren't alive then.

I didn't start listening to bebop jazz until 1984. Most of my favourite musicians are long gone.
I've had several young girlfriends who are not only fans of older rock music, but they are often fascinated and more than a little jealous that I've been to live performances of these artists.

Plus I tend to influence women in their taste in music as well.
I noticed this most about my children - when they were young and impressionable, they enjoyed my music choices when we were driving around in the car. My son's favourite car music was Stanley Clarke's School Days; and Yessongs, a live double album by Yes, singing along to Your Move/All Good People. My daughter (now 13) is outright jealous that I've lived in 'her favourite decades' (1980-1990) and she loves Rammstein and Pink Floyd next to Lana del Rey.

I also found that Central/Eastern European women often grew up with the music I grew up with because the former soviet influence didn't allow for a lot of modern music to filter into their lives. A Czech girl that was 30 years younger than me could sing along with Pink Floyd; Led Zeppelin; Stevie Wonder; Marvin Gaye; Joy Division; and The Doors, because that was also the music she grew up with.

I guess your statement isn't based on extensive research. Many bands that are 'long gone' get fans that weren't alive when they were at their peak. Maybe it's someone's cultural background might inhibit getting to know the music, but I don't think people listen only to music made by their contemporaries.

 

[BergischerLöwe]

I didn't start listening to bebop jazz until 1984. Most of my favourite musicians are long gone.
I've had several young girlfriends who are not only fans of older rock music, but they are often fascinated and more than a little jealous that I've been to live performances of these artists.

Plus I tend to influence women in their taste in music as well.
I noticed this most about my children - when they were young and impressionable, they enjoyed my music choices when we were driving around in the car. My son's favourite car music was Stanley Clarke's School Days; and Yessongs, a live double album by Yes, singing along to Your Move/All Good People. My daughter (now 13) is outright jealous that I've lived in 'her favourite decades' (1980-1990) and she loves Rammstein and Pink Floyd next to Lana del Rey.

I also found that Central/Eastern European women often grew up with the music I grew up with because the former soviet influence didn't allow for a lot of modern music to filter into their lives. A Czech girl that was 30 years younger than me could sing along with Pink Floyd; Led Zeppelin; Stevie Wonder; Marvin Gaye; Joy Division; and The Doors, because that was also the music she grew up with.

I guess your statement isn't based on extensive research. Many bands that are 'long gone' get fans that weren't alive when they were at their peak. Maybe it's someone's cultural background might inhibit getting to know the music, but I don't think people listen only to music made by their contemporaries.

Rock n roll seems to be at least a bit more popular in central/eastern Europe and Scandinavia than it is in the states. Most of the people that are fans of my band and have actually bought our albums are in Europe. Granted my band's actual fanbase is pretty damn small, but in general most of the people who know about us are Europeans. In Germany a lot of the old men who would have been young in the 60s/70s still have long hair and walk around town dressed in floral shirts and brightly coloured corduroys. Idk how many women in their 20s over there listen to that kinda stuff but maybe it's slightly more than it is here. But like I said I haven't really met any women around my age in Germany or elsewhere in Europe so it's hard to tell.

Either way, like I was saying earlier I have this vague idea that European women might be better for me but if that's indeed true that adds a bunch more hoops for me to have to potentially jump thru to try and meet women. Here in the states my options are limited to using dating apps, and trying to meet European women would require me to travel thousands of miles and stay in Europe for months trying to swipe on apps and get a date. I'm not one of those guys that can meet and hook up with girls while traveling, and I never will be. I can't realistically expect to pull that off, ever. Any time I hear stories of guys doing that I get super jealous since I'd never be able to do that myself. In any case, "meeting women" for me requires months of swiping on apps only to get matches from mediocre women who don't even message back anyway. The problems I have meeting women in the states would certainly follow me to Europe. The only way I'd be able to find women to date over there would be to literally move to Germany and swipe away on apps hoping and praying to luck out one day. So it's not a very feasible thing.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

Here in the states my options are limited to using dating apps, and trying to meet European women would require me to travel thousands of miles and stay in Europe for months trying to swipe on apps and get a date.

You can try to become more world-wise and travel to see other cultures.
And if all you do is change locations to have other locations to swipe your dating apps, I can tell you that you wouldn't make much progress in Europe, where most people meet in real life and not on dating apps.

 

[BergischerLöwe]

You can try to become more world-wise and travel to see other cultures.
And if all you do is change locations to have other locations to swipe your dating apps, I can tell you that you wouldn't make much progress in Europe, where most people meet in real life and not on dating apps.

But that's the thing, I've never been able to meet women to date irl. If most people in Europe meet irl and off apps then I'm kinda screwed tbh. I've never pulled a girl that I've first met irl, hasn't ever happened like that in my entire life

 

[SW15]

I've never been able to meet women to date irl.

I would like to say that you are abnormal. However, given as though there are a lot of sexless males among late Millennials/Gen Z, you're not as abnormal as one might think.

 

[BergischerLöwe]

I would like to say that you are abnormal. However, given as though there are a lot of sexless males among late Millennials/Gen Z, you're not as abnormal as one might think.

I just never learned how to do that when I was supposed to have

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

But that's the thing, I've never been able to meet women to date irl. If most people in Europe meet irl and off apps then I'm kinda screwed tbh. I've never pulled a girl that I've first met irl, hasn't ever happened like that in my entire life

If you're unable to step out of your comfort zone, you will be a lonely wanker for the rest of your life.

 

[SW15]

I've never been able to meet women to date irl.

I just never learned how to do that when I was supposed to have

If you're unable to step out of your comfort zone, you will be a lonely wanker for the rest of your life.

Prior to roughly the year 2000, almost all humans met a romantic partner through some real life method. @BergischerLöwe claims to be unable to do something that humans did for thousands of years prior to very recent history.

Approaching strangers has always been a difficult thing to do. When I think about the 1800s and the 1900s, there were some social orders that reduced the burden of approaching strangers. There were introductions through family members, co-workers, and friends. People dated neighbors in their parents' neighborhood as teenagers, or possibly in apartment complexes or single family houses as adults. There were church groups. Social networks really did a fantastic job of reducing the burden of approaching strangers in large quantities. All of these methods of forming romantic relationships have been in decline since at least the 1980s, if not as early as the 1950s.

Another way in which people met in the 1800s and 1900s was high school and college, and this still happens in the 21st Century. Approaching a classmate in a high school or college class can be nervewracking. I've been there. It is an easier approach than a mall, a grocery store, or even a bar. The college formed relationship has been in decline since roughly 2000, when the earliest Millennials started to reach college campus, a reversal of a 1970s-1990s trend in which increased college enrollments led to increases in college-formed romantic relationships that had a decent amount of longevity. In more recent times, most college-formed relationships fail within 2-5 years of graduation. Most people are not marrying their college girlfriends. Even if they are marrying their college girlfriends, there's a good chance that marriage will fail.

Right now, a lot of the later Millennials (1990-1996 births) and the emerging Gen Z adults (1997-2004 born adults) are struggling to form romantic relationships of meaning in real life. Many can't do real life approaching and the reality of tech-based interactions falls way short of the promise of them. For the majority men, tech-based interactions mean more sexlessness (involuntary celibacy - incel). For women, there's an increase in the ability to have sex with better looking men but a lack of ability to get commitments on a longer term basis (involuntary solitude - insol). A small percentage of men (the 8.5+s) are able to have commitment free sex from whichever set of women that they desire and they don't experience sexlessness or loneliness.

Where was @BergischerLöwe 's father in teaching him how to approach women in real life? What about brothers or male cousins? @BergischerLöwe needed to be sounding the alarm bells on this long ago and if no one could have taught him in-person, he needed to go to the internet and read something like "Bang" or "Mystery Method". If reading was too much work, there have been many seduction YouTube videos, from creators like Playing with Fire, etc.

 

[BergischerLöwe]

Where was @BergischerLöwe 's father in teaching him how to approach women in real life? What about brothers or male cousins?

Well with my dad it's a very long story. My parents split up shortly after I started first grade back in 2002, and a bitter custody battle ensued that lasted until 2009. Additionally my mom remarried and my stepfather was an emotionally abusive, alcohol addicted redneck who was constantly angry at me and quite possibly had some sort of undiagnosed cluster b disorder like narcissistic personality disorder. As I kid my ADHD was pretty bad and since he didn't even believe that my condition was real he just tried to beat those traits out of me. On top of all this my mom and my stepfather turned my sister and myself against my real dad during the custody battle and basically brainwashed us into thinking he was the bad guy in all of this. At the time I was too young to understand I was being manipulated.

Middle school was particularly rough for me because I hated school and struggled to fit in there, and at home I had no refuge either because my stepfather was always mad at me for the dumbest reasons. I was treated like such a bad kid even though the worst thing I did back then was frequently not turn my homework in on time because I had trouble keeping track of those kinda things. The treatment I received back then really negatively impacted my sense of self worth. Until I was about 14 or 15 I literally had no self esteem, and I believed all the horrible things my stepfather used to tell me about me. Fortunately my mom left my stepfather in late 2010 when I was 14 because his alcohol addiction had gotten to a point where he was a danger to us. After that everything was more chill and I started coming into my own socially around that time and was able to have a largely enjoyable high school experience. However the damage had been done by this point. As a teenager, when I needed a father figure the most, I never really had one. Although my stepfather had been ousted I wasn't in contact with my real dad because I had been brainwashed against him. My stepfather later died in 2014 because of his alcohol and pill addiction.

Since then I've tried to repair relations with my dad. I talk to him via text sometimes but I haven't actually seen him more than once in the past five years even though I really should. I visited him back in 2018 once and around the same time he helped me get my German passport so I could study in Austria visa-free. However to this day I keep putting off seeing him again because of all the weird psychological hangups stemming from when I was a kid. It's a shame because he did nothing wrong and I was turned against him unfairly when I was a kid and had no idea what was actually going on. I need to see him again and a lot of people have also told me that, and I feel awful for putting that off so much. Family friends always say how much I look and act like him and he's probably more similar to me than any other person on this earth. Yet I still have all these weird mental blocks about seeing him. Also I find it really regrettable how my evil stepfather was the most visible father figure I had during most of my childhood when he had no business ever filling that role. That guy really adversely impacted the course of my life in a number of ways.

As for brothers I have none, and the only male cousins I have are 10+ years younger than I am. All my older cousins are female and live in Germany. Now that I think about it I didn't have as many positive male role models in my life growing up. I think all of this is one reason I never learned to interact with girls irl as a teenager, at the age when I was supposed to. In my teenage years I never had anybody to talk to about how to interact with women so that part of my development was stunted. During high school I did everything else socially one would expect normal teenagers to do; I played sports, I had a decent sized group of friends, I went to parties and drank and smoked weed and wandered around the neighborhood aimlessly at night with my friends, but girls were always something that eluded me. Even though high school was a decade ago now I find the fact that I managed to do absolutely nothing with girls back then to be highly regrettable. I don't think he lack of a legit father figure during all of that time was the only reason why this happened, but it's certainly a huge contributing factor. In any case, an important aspect of my social development was stunted during a critical period.

 

[BergischerLöwe]

@BergischerLöwe needed to be sounding the alarm bells on this long ago and if no one could have taught him in-person, he needed to go to the internet and read something like "Bang" or "Mystery Method". If reading was too much work, there have been many seduction YouTube videos, from creators like Playing with Fire, etc.

I've read a few books about how to get girls. I believe I read Bang at one point, I've read Models by Marc Manson, and also The Book of Pook. The latter was one that really resonated with me but I struggle to apply its concepts to real life, Bang came across to me as kinda sleazy and didn't seem to have anything somebody with my sort of personality could use in earnest, and Models didn't really have anything useful for me even though there are some who swear by it. The traditional cold approach model that a lot of the seduction community writes about and touts as the solution isn't something that would work for me, but also any real life alternative such as warm approach or social circle is also very likely to fail. There may be many thick books out there about how to approach women, but I feel like their contents don't really apply to me and thus any advice given by those seems to be written with a different audience in mind than someone in my situation.

 

[SW15]

Bang came across to me as kinda sleazy and didn't seem to have anything somebody with my sort of personality could use in earnest

I thought Bang was a great book. It had a great standard opener for nightlife venue game.

I found Day Bang to be more useful than Bang. The principles of Day Bang became the foundation for my transformation in the early 2010s from a primarily nightlife venue guy to a primarily daygame guy. The London Daygame Model from Krauser-Torero also is a valuable daygame model.

The stuff the seduction community writes about won't work for you because you have a bad attitude about it. As you think, you shall become. Pook said something like that.

my dad...my stepfather.....As for brothers I have none, and the only male cousins I have are 10+ years younger than I am.

There's been a long crisis in fatherhood. Baby Boomer and Gen X fathers did a mostly crap job with raising their Millennial and Gen Z sons. It didn't really matter if the parents stayed together or not. I've seen Baby Boomer fathers who had lasting marriages with Millennial sons who've had lousy outcomes in the mating market. Maybe not incel level lousy, but crap divorces and/or many bad breakups.

It's not surprising there were issues with both your dad and your stepdad. Stepdads are total crap. Blended families suck too.

Based on some of my uncomfortable and traumatic family experiences including divorces, re-marriage, and family blending, I do empathize with the lousy home life described by @BergischerLöwe .

You really did have no male help from the family. I don't think it is fair for your male friends to be helpers for you either.

I can see why you've had some of the problems that you have had with that messy home life.

 

[BergischerLöwe]

I thought Bang was a great book. It had a great standard opener for nightlife venue game.

I found Day Bang to be more useful than Bang. The principles of Day Bang became the foundation for my transformation in the early 2010s from a primarily nightlife venue guy to a primarily daygame guy. The London Daygame Model from Krauser-Torero also is a valuable daygame model.

The stuff the seduction community writes about won't work for you because you have a bad attitude about it. As you think, you shall become. Pook said something like that.

I'm aware of that quote from Pook, there was a point where I could recite all of Pook's 15 Rules from memory. I'm not trying to have a bad attitude about the stuff the community writes about, it's just geared towards a different audience than me. Cold approach and the like seems to be geared more to the sort of guy who can already meet women irl easily and get laid on a fairly consistent basis, but wants to get girls a tier or two higher than what he's used to. Think about all the really socially awkward guys who struggle to get a date at all, try to learn cold approach since it's marketed heavily as a solution, then spend a bunch of money attending bootcamps and trying to approach only for them to be in the same situation as before. That kinda stuff wasn't written with them in mind, and thus they can't apply it to their own situation, so they fail with it and become more blackpilled and discouraged. Now I myself am not severely socially awkward, and I've always had friends in my life and I've had a girlfriend in the past and hookups from apps, but still as I said before part of my social development was stunted due to upbringing and life circumstances growing up that I couldn't control. Me reading something like Bang and attempting to apply its principles wouldn't do me much good, I don't really think I'm the intended audience for that and there's other issues going on with me

 

[corrector]

I'm aware of that quote from Pook, there was a point where I could recite all of Pook's 15 Rules from memory. I'm not trying to have a bad attitude about the stuff the community writes about, it's just geared towards a different audience than me. Cold approach and the like seems to be geared more to the sort of guy who can already meet women irl easily and get laid on a fairly consistent basis, but wants to get girls a tier or two higher than what he's used to. Think about all the really socially awkward guys who struggle to get a date at all, try to learn cold approach since it's marketed heavily as a solution, then spend a bunch of money attending bootcamps and trying to approach only for them to be in the same situation as before. That kinda stuff wasn't written with them in mind, and thus they can't apply it to their own situation, so they fail with it and become more blackpilled and discouraged. Now I myself am not severely socially awkward, and I've always had friends in my life and I've had a girlfriend in the past and hookups from apps, but still as I said before part of my social development was stunted due to upbringing and life circumstances growing up that I couldn't control. Me reading something like Bang and attempting to apply its principles wouldn't do me much good, I don't really think I'm the intended audience for that and there's other issues going on with me

Sounds like the extension of the complaints from PUA-hate. That, if you are an incel-level sub-5 guy, then these books are not helpful. You sound a tier or two above that and it's still not helpful because the modern dating market is too grossly inequitable that more guys are caught in the net where these books are unhelpful.

 

[BergischerLöwe]

There's been a long crisis in fatherhood. Baby Boomer and Gen X fathers did a mostly crap job with raising their Millennial and Gen Z sons. It didn't really matter if the parents stayed together or not. I've seen Baby Boomer fathers who had lasting marriages with Millennial sons who've had lousy outcomes in the mating market. Maybe not incel level lousy, but crap divorces and/or many bad breakups.

It's not surprising there were issues with both your dad and your stepdad. Stepdads are total crap. Blended families suck too.

Based on some of my uncomfortable and traumatic family experiences including divorces, re-marriage, and family blending, I do empathize with the lousy home life described by @BergischerLöwe .

You really did have no male help from the family. I don't think it is fair for your male friends to be helpers for you either.

I can see why you've had some of the problems that you have had with that messy home life.

Yeah man it adversely affected me in a number of ways and when it was going on in my life I was too young to understand the ramifications of what was actually happening. When I was like 10 or 11 I thought the sort of treatment I got from my stepfather was normal for parents to do, for example. For a long time I didn't realize that what was happening was actually pretty bad. Then when I was a teenager and my stepfather was finally gone I was picking up the pieces from all of that. In high school I really wanted a girlfriend and all the experiences associated with that, but I really had nobody to talk to about achieving that goal. With the right guidance I could have pulled it off. I was decent looking, semi popular, and played in a band and people respected me because of that, so there was potential there. I'm sure there were girls who would have gone out with me back then but I didn't think there were any. I had no confidence as far as dating/women were concerned and nobody to really guide me. Another thing in those days that frustrated me to no end is that because of my inaction all the girls I liked ended up going out with guys that were nerdier or less attractive than me. Which to me meant that I could have gone out with those girls but because I didn't try they went out with guys I deemed as "lesser" than me. I tried to talk to my friends about how to get girls sometimes but they just gave me generic canned advice that made no difference. Also back then I genuinely believed I was an incel even though I never really was

 

[SpartanWarrior77]

I mean I'm pretty introverted and I'm not really that relatable to most people so that always hampers my ability to meet women. I'm not unattractive but I got more of a niche look if that makes any sense. I've been told by a fair amount of people that I look kinda like Blake from workaholics if that makes sense. Either way I've never had a way of consistently meeting women, just swiping and hoping.

With your latter point idk where such an environment would be

Now that I think about it, I wonder if you'd do better with going to Bali or the Phillipines. Asian women like white dudes and care less about their intellect and cultural background than Eastern European women. If you're looking for a more simple minded woman who can love u simply, go to Asia. I have some friends that are kicking arse and taking names in Laos right now and all the guy does is be tall, white and teach english. They love him out there. Plus he has a gay nerdy voice. You'll never find what you're looking for in the US, ur only hope here would be to find a chubby alternative chick who's weirdly introverted. She'd be tall, have a big head, her only redeeming quality would be her skin being smooth and the fact that she doesn't like to argue in public. She'll barely wear make-up and when she does, it would look ridiculous on her. Your parents will like her but your dad won't be impressed although he'll be happy you're finally with someone cuz he secretly feels bad for you. The highlight of your sex life will be the one time u do anal on a 6 day cruise.

 

[BergischerLöwe]

Now that I think about it, I wonder if you'd do better with going to Bali or the Phillipines. Asian women like white dudes and care less about their intellect and cultural background than Eastern European women. If you're looking for a more simple minded woman who can love u simply, go to Asia. I have some friends that are kicking arse and taking names in Laos right now and all the guy does is be tall, white and teach english. They love him out there. Plus he has a gay nerdy voice.

I've gotten that suggestion before but honestly I'm not really attracted to Asian women. I'm German myself and am very well versed in European culture and have lived in Europe before, so European women would be more relatable in that sense. Furthermore I refuse to perpetuate the "introverted white guy with an Asian girl" stereotype. Furthermore I feel like these Asian women go for white guys mainly for their money. If I tried that I wouldn't be able to shake that feeling

 

[SpartanWarrior77]

I've gotten that suggestion before but honestly I'm not really attracted to Asian women. I'm German myself and am very well versed in European culture and have lived in Europe before, so European women would be more relatable in that sense. Furthermore I refuse to perpetuate the "introverted white guy with an Asian girl" stereotype

Lmao about the stereotype, I also updated my last post OP

 

[BergischerLöwe]

You'll never find what you're looking for in the US, ur only hope here would be to find a chubby alternative chick who's weirdly introverted.

This probably describes most of the women who'd be attracted to me here in the states, and exactly the kind of mid women from dating apps I'm fed up with

 

[SpartanWarrior77]

This probably describes most of the women who'd be attracted to me here in the states, and exactly the kind of mid women from dating apps I'm fed up with

Of course OP! How could it be any other way?

Also ur best bet in Europe might then be to find a chubby Polish woman with blonde hair and big teeters. She won't have a shapely bum but if she manages to lose weight (only through consistent prodding on your part + leading by example) she will drop around 33 Ibs. However her booty will still be sort of overly wide and clumpy looking (nothing dim lighting and correct positioning in the bedroom cant fix). You're gonna want one that isn't ambitious or driven. Preferably a secretary at a hospital with a local associates degree in dentistry assistance. Her secret ambition must be to simply be a stay at home wife due to how much she hates her job. The trust fund and the occasional side gig will be more than enough to live in Europe.

 

[BergischerLöwe]

Also ur best bet in Europe might then be to find a chubby Polish woman with blonde hair and big teeters. She won't have a shapely bum but if she manages to lose weight (only through consistent prodding on your part + leading by example) she will drop around 33 Ibs. However her booty will still be sort of overly wide. You're gonna want one that isn't ambitious or driven. Preferably a secretary at a hospital with a local associates degree in dentistry assistance. Her secret ambition must be to simply be a mother due to how much she hates her job. The trust fund and the occasional side gig will be more than enough to live in Europe.

Yeah honestly I do think central european women would be more what I'm looking for, I just haven't had the opportunity to meet any I could date. People in Czechosolvakia/Hungary seem to have a certain respect for German culture for what it's worth, so maybe the fact that I'm German myself would go over well there