Sosuave Poll Scenario: Which girl would you choose to date

[pipeman84]

It's extremely rare to meet a women over 27-28 who both looks and acts as feminine as a young woman

This 100%
Don't forget the OP stated:

Parameters: You cannot dump or divorce this girl

That means that if you want an easy, as drama free as possible life, you have to get a girl young enough that you can mold. Good luck doing that with a 34yrs old woman.

 

[Plinco]

Scenario: Picture the exact same girl in three different versions and imagine her being your dream girl or something…She’s a 10/10
Parameters: You cannot dump or divorce this girl

Scenario A- The girl is 18 and a peak 10/10, but she is a single mom to some deadbeat Kevin that drives a Mustang and hangs out with high schoolers

Scenario B- The same girl at age 21, but she is fat. There is a 30% chance that she will lose this weight permanently

Scenario C- She is 34, and attractive, that’s it.

Which one do you choose?

None of the above

 

[SW15]

Almost all childless women at 34 are career women.

This is a good point and I would to provide more details on it. I'm going to go through women in some occupations.

Think about dental hygienists and paralegals. These two professions pay reasonably well, have reasonable hours, and are not excessively demanding. Women who work these jobs can live comfortably in a decent one bedroom apartment or get a roommate and live in a nicer, 2 bedroom place. They don't make enough to have a luxurious lifestyle, but they do make enough for a decent one. Neither occupation is an occupation with women with advanced level degrees. Both occupations have trade certifications and neither requires even a bachelor's degree. It's a common path for paralegals to have a bachelor's degree though. An associate level degree is more common than a bachelor's degree for dental hygienists.

Because neither dental hygienists nor paralegals are major career women, most are desirable.

I would say that the majority of 34 year old dental hygienists and paralegals have a child by 34. They are either married moms or single moms by 34.

Other medical assistants are a lot like dental hygienists and have a child by 34.

Most 34 year old elementary school teachers have a child by 34. Elementary school teachers are not career women with advanced degrees. They are typically women with elementary education bachelor's degrees.

Most 34 year old retail worker females or 34 year old bartenders have a child. Most 34 year old waitresses at restaurants like Denny's or Applebee's have less than a college degree and have a child.

Who are 34 year old childless women?

These are university professors, lawyers, doctors/dentists, psychologists, and higher level individual contributor/middle manager business women. All of these women have at least a bachelor's degree and many of them have advanced level degrees.

I think Option C is going to be what jives with most of the men here including myself.

We are discussing this in a vacuum of course where all other things are the same -- but let's be honest, that isn't realistic. This single 34 year old with no kids probably has loads of bad LTR experience, probably is also Cluster B, etc. She is going to be scarred and you are going to pay for it. Given that, I would be tempted to go option A and take a chance, but 18 is awfully young to have a relationship with. I at least need to be able to walk into a bar with an LTR.

You make a good point about the typical childless 34 year old woman, who might have one of the occupations I listed above. She definitely has had bad experiences in the sexual marketplace. She might even have a childless divorce to her name. If never married, she might have ridden the penis carousel, lived in a boyfriend and it didn't work, etc.

I'm not tempted to go with the 18 year old because she already has a child. The ability to walk into a bar with an LTR is a good thing. It's been a very long time since my last date with someone under age 21.

 

[Robert28]

D. **** that, I’ll beat my own meat

 

[BMX]

D. DMT.

 

[Michael Chief]

I don't want kids either but no eggs = not feminine

It's extremely rare to meet a women over 27-28 who both looks and acts as feminine as a young woman

If C was genuinely as feminine as the 21 year old then I'd definitely pick her but this is kind of a pointless exercise because if their personality is the same then their age doesn't matter.

Bro do you not know how to use behavioral shaping techniques? You can bring out the most feminine personality of any woman no matter her age. As for looks, those fade inevitably anyway, though there are plenty of technologies that can help with that these days.

 

[FlexpertHamilton]

This is a good point and I would to provide more details on it. I'm going to go through women in some occupations.

Think about dental hygienists and paralegals. These two professions pay reasonably well, have reasonable hours, and are not excessively demanding. Women who work these jobs can live comfortably in a decent one bedroom apartment or get a roommate and live in a nicer, 2 bedroom place. They don't make enough to have a luxurious lifestyle, but they do make enough for a decent one. Neither occupation is an occupation with women with advanced level degrees. Both occupations have trade certifications and neither requires even a bachelor's degree. It's a common path for paralegals to have a bachelor's degree though. An associate level degree is more common than a bachelor's degree for dental hygienists.

Because neither dental hygienists nor paralegals are major career women, most are desirable.

I agree, both of those jobs are examples of green flags. Any job that requires advanced education/career is a major red flag.

Bro do you not know how to use behavioral shaping techniques? You can bring out the most feminine personality of any woman no matter her age. As for looks, those fade inevitably anyway, though there are plenty of technologies that can help with that these days.

I'm not into that, I want a girl who's innately feminine without being told. I don't have the patience to train a dog let alone train a girl. I also think it's a huge turn off when women do things out of comformity/social pressure rather than their own volition because it shows they don't have their own thoughts. Eg a girl wearing those retarded flared stripey pants, it's the female equivalent of pretending to like IPAs.

On another note I am not convinced you can truly "train" femininity, you can certainly bend a hardened career women into a submissive housewife type if you're truly a top tier man but why bother? If you're a top tier man why wouldn't you just go for youthful feminine women?

 

[Macadellic]

(D) none of the above

I think for myself.

 

[FlirtLife]

Scenario: Picture the exact same girl in three different versions and imagine her being your dream girl or something…She’s a 10/10
Parameters: You cannot dump or divorce this girl

Scenario A- The girl is 18 and a peak 10/10, but she is a single mom to some deadbeat Kevin that drives a Mustang and hangs out with high schoolers

Scenario B- The same girl at age 21, but she is fat. There is a 30% chance that she will lose this weight permanently

Scenario C- She is 34, and attractive, that’s it.

For A, "single mom" is enough baggage without the deadbeat ex

For B, fat girls aren't a 10/10, so what have her looks become? I guess this is meant as a dice roll, 70% fat / 30% thin... but does anyone think that way?

For C, the girl was a 10/10 at age 18, so she's "attractive" meaning stunning at age 34? Not specifying her looks makes this ambiguous, and I suspect many people kept her near a 10/10 in looks (age adjusted).

You also might not have considered that age 34 looks different to different men. A guy at age 22 probably doesn't want to date someone +50% older than him. Another guy at age 54 might be fine dating 20 years younger.

 

[Michael Chief]

I'm not into that, I want a girl who's innately feminine without being told. I don't have the patience to train a dog let alone train a girl. I also think it's a huge turn off when women do things out of comformity/social pressure rather than their own volition because it shows they don't have their own thoughts. Eg a girl wearing those retarded flared stripey pants, it's the female equivalent of pretending to like IPAs.

On another note I am not convinced you can truly "train" femininity, you can certainly bend a hardened career women into a submissive housewife type if you're truly a top tier man but why bother? If you're a top tier man why wouldn't you just go for youthful feminine women?

It's less about training and more about eliciting innately feminine traits, and it's not as hard as you seem to be thinking. Every woman has a sweet feminine side that she will show to specific people. All you really need to do is implement a bit of the Pygmalion effect while triggering gender polarity by holding a masculine frame. That's just PUA nerd talk for encouraging her innate femininity while being dominant, the latter of which you should be doing all the time anyway. Training a dog is much harder.

You can't train a fish to climb a tree, but you can sure as hell make it swim by putting it in some water.

You don't like IPAs?

 

[Divorced w 3]

I am with option C in real life, there are things I just choose not to ask and that’s fine with me. Great person, amazing in the sack, loves me to death and loves kids. If that situation changes I will report back.

 

[SW15]

Think about dental hygienists and paralegals. These two professions pay reasonably well, have reasonable hours, and are not excessively demanding. Women who work these jobs can live comfortably in a decent one bedroom apartment or get a roommate and live in a nicer, 2 bedroom place. They don't make enough to have a luxurious lifestyle, but they do make enough for a decent one. Neither occupation is an occupation with women with advanced level degrees. Both occupations have trade certifications and neither requires even a bachelor's degree. It's a common path for paralegals to have a bachelor's degree though. An associate level degree is more common than a bachelor's degree for dental hygienists.

Because neither dental hygienists nor paralegals are major career women, most are desirable.

I would say that the majority of 34 year old dental hygienists and paralegals have a child by 34. They are either married moms or single moms by 34.

I agree, both of those jobs are examples of green flags. Any job that requires advanced education/career is a major red flag.

Dental hygienist and paralegal are examples are green flag jobs but not all dental hygienists and paralegals will be worth dating.

Most men, including the blue pill beta males, realize that the most desirable women aren't career women. One's job is such a crucial part of their identity and a big part of dating/lifestyle. Since dental hygienists and paralegals are not burdened by excessive career demands, many men see them as relationship worthy. The more overweight hygienists and paralegals will struggle more, but if a hygienist/paralegal is under 35 and at least average looking, she'll have a lot of options and men will value her in terms of longer term relationships. This is why most hygienists and paralegals have a child by 34-35. Men recognize their value and want to commit to a woman without a demanding career longer term. Most of these women get snapped up by their mid to late 20s. With hygienists and paralegals under 30, they are rarely single for long when a non-marital relationship fails, regardless of whether or not they use swipe apps or not. Hygienists and paralegals don't have to work hard to find good quality approaches from the real world or they might have a social circle. If neither of those options work, they have their social media DMs if they are social media active. The swipe apps would be the 4th possible option for them if the first three fail. Most hygienists and paralegals will be able to find a boyfriend through their social circle or getting approached in-person though within 2-3 months of being single.

There are some high notch count hygienists and paralegals too. These women find LTRs in part due to the green flag nature of their jobs and also in part due to the male thirst environment. These are the hygienists and paralegals that are more likely to eventually become single moms.

A typical unattached male without a good social circle only interacts with dental hygienists when he sees his own dentist. His own hygienist could be married woman and/or a women who is 45-65. If a man's dental office has a hygienist who is under 35 and unmarried, she is likely to already have a stable boyfriend and not be looking for new penis. If a man's dental office has a hygienist who is under 35, unmarried, and not in a relationship/seeking new penis, he's also not likely to be able to arrange a date while sitting in the dental chair. Hygienists are like retail store workers, waitresses, bartenders, breastaurant workers, and strippers. The best way to get a date with a hygienist is to somehow meet them while they are off the job and participating in some sort of leisure time activity. This could happen in a conventional daygame setting, at a nightlife venue, or in something like a co-ed sports league or dance class.

A typical unattached male without a good social circle may meet a dental hygienist while swiping on an app as well or sliding into her DMs, but that's an even more difficult way to try to meet a dental hygienist. Some hygienists may mention in their swipe app profiles or Instagram bios that they are hygienists. A man is far more likely to meet a woman with some sort of business role (may be a red flag career woman if she's middle management or higher) or definite red flag careerist woman like a lawyer or other woman with a career requiring an advanced degree.

A typical unattached male without a good social circle is even less likely to meet a paralegal in his day-to-day life than a dental hygienist. While a typical male goes to the dentist 1-3 times a year for routine care, a typical male isn't likely to need the services of a lawyer with a paralegal in a given year. If a man happens to need the services of a lawyer, he's unlikely to be able to get a date with his lawyer's paralegal in the midst of needing legal services. Paralegals are like hygienists and other women who work with the public like the examples I gave above. It is best to meet them while off the job. What I said about meeting hygienists on the apps or via social media DM also applies to paralegals.

 

[Giovanni SouthSide]

I agree, both of those jobs are examples of green flags. Any job that requires advanced education/career is a major red flag.



I'm not into that, I want a girl who's innately feminine without being told. I don't have the patience to train a dog let alone train a girl. I also think it's a huge turn off when women do things out of comformity/social pressure rather than their own volition because it shows they don't have their own thoughts. Eg a girl wearing those retarded flared stripey pants, it's the female equivalent of pretending to like IPAs.

On another note I am not convinced you can truly "train" femininity, you can certainly bend a hardened career women into a submissive housewife type if you're truly a top tier man but why bother? If you're a top tier man why wouldn't you just go for youthful feminine women?

“ It’s easier to train a loyal dog than to train a masculine feminist girl” there I fixed it

 

[Murk]

B, easily. I just need 2 years with her and she will be slim, healthy, working out with me, 10/10 and only 23.

You guys can have the 36 year old with a triple digit bodycount, who is 10/10 but couldn’t secure a man in 16 years? Good luck.

 

[LTG71]

A brings too much drama and baggage. You’ll have to deal with her baby daddy and the kid is not yours.

B but 30% is pretty low. My kids went through elementary and middle school with a girl that was chunky. When the pandemic ended and they went back to school, holy sh!t this chunky chic transformed. She was like a caterpillar that turned into a butterfly. Now she is one of the hottest girls in their class. Now all the boys that ignored her are like, “duhhhhh, what happened?” She is unobtainable now with power to choose any boy she wants. If the same could happen to this 21 year old then maybe. Gotta see what her mom looks like. This usually is a good way to see the future. If her mom is a fat little troll then odds are not in your favor.

C probably has issues because she hasn’t been snatched up yet. I know two women that lost their minds at 30 trying to find a man. One went on E-harmony and filled out a long questionnaire and actually matched her with a guy that became her husband now for 10 years running. Woman number two is in LTR but not married but has more issues than Readers Digest.

 

[EyeBRollin]

C

No project women. No single moms.

 

[EyeBRollin]

B, easily. I just need 2 years with her and she will be slim, healthy, working out with me, 10/10 and only 23.

You’re dreaming my friend. She’s not gonna lose the weight.

 

[Murk]

You’re dreaming my friend. She’s not gonna lose the weight.

I’ll gastric band her myself if I have to.

All most people need is guidance, authority and some fear, that’s what gets results.

C definitely has herpes.

 

[SW15]

This was solid analysis by @LTG71 .

A brings too much drama and baggage. You’ll have to deal with her baby daddy and the kid is not yours.

Agree that A has too much drama and baggage. Even at 28, a single mom is not an appealing proposition. The fact that she's a single mom at 18 shows that she has questionable judgment. If a woman were 28 with one kid born when she was 25-26, her judgment would be less questionable.

There was one time at the bars in my early 20s when I met a 23 year old with a 3 year old child. I was not impressed that she was already a single mom at 23. If I were at a bar today and met a 33 year old with a 3 year with a 3 year old child, I would be a little bit more understanding. The 33 year old with a 3 year old child was likely more prepared for motherhood when she had her child at 29-30 than the 23 year old with 3 year old having a child at 19-20. From a biological perspective, a woman is more fertile at 19-20 than she is at 29-30, though most 29-30 year old women are not going to have difficulty conceiving and she's still years away from geriatric pregnancy with a higher potential for pregnancy complications.

I would not date either woman from the previous paragraph.

In this situation, the woman is attractive and is still only 18, so she's plenty fertile. A man could easily have another 1-2 kids with her by 30.

There are plenty of men who meet women under age 35 who are single moms of 1-2 children. They commit to these women and then have 1-2 children of their own with her.

From the perspective of a 30 year old man, a 25-29 year old average looking woman without kids is a better mate option than a highly attractive 18 year old who already has a kid.

B but 30% is pretty low. My kids went through elementary and middle school with a girl that was chunky. When the pandemic ended and they went back to school, holy sh!t this chunky chic transformed. She was like a caterpillar that turned into a butterfly. Now she is one of the hottest girls in their class. Now all the boys that ignored her are like, “duhhhhh, what happened?” She is unobtainable now with power to choose any boy she wants. If the same could happen to this 21 year old then maybe. Gotta see what her mom looks like. This usually is a good way to see the future. If her mom is a fat little troll then odds are not in your favor.

Situation B is bad. She's 21, overweight, and a single mom. If she's able to fix the overweight part, she's still a single mom and everything that I described in Situation A still applies.

C probably has issues because she hasn’t been snatched up yet. I know two women that lost their minds at 30 trying to find a man. One went on E-harmony and filled out a long questionnaire and actually matched her with a guy that became her husband now for 10 years running. Woman number two is in LTR but not married but has more issues than Readers Digest.

C is overall the best option because it's the only childless option. Her age is not that exciting to a lot of men. A 25 year old man is not excited about a long term relationship with a 34 year old woman, though many 25 year old men will have a shorter term casual sex relationship with a 34 year old woman. A 35-50 year old man will often find a childless 34 year old woman to be an acceptable prospect, especially childless 35-50 year old men.

I have some comments about the two women you mentioned.

Let's start with the first woman and her use of eHarmony.

eHarmony has been around a long time (since 2000 according to Wikipedia below). I haven't heard as much about eHarmony in the years since swipe apps became popular. Hinge and Bumble have probably taken a lot of their market share, as Hinge and Bumble are more relationship oriented than Tinder. Tinder has likely had minimal effect on eHarmony. eHarmony has always been a bit of a niche dating website. It is the most relationship focused dating website. Before dating apps, when dating websites were a thing, OkCupid and Plenty of Fish were more casually oriented and Match and eHarmony were more longer term relationship focused.

eHarmony - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

If she got married 10 years ago (2013), she likely met her now-husband on eHarmony around 2010-2011. 2010-2011 was before the launch of swipe apps and dating websites were more relevant. In 2010-2011, it wouldn't have been too unusual for a ~30 year old woman to go on eHarmony and find a man. It is likely this man is a beta male with a blue pill relationship ideology. Even back in 2010-2011, it would have been unusual for a more red pill oriented man to use eHarmony. As we've discussed in other threads, longevity of a relationship is no indication of quality. So a 12-13 year long relationship formed on eHarmony isn't an indication of much. I am guessing that it is likely to be is an aging woman who settled in her early 30s and a blue pill man who was mainly ignored by women for the 10-15 years prior to meeting a woman settling for whatever woman he could get. There might have been some good compatibility factors with that but the whole thing reeks of 2 people settling.

I only know of one couple formed from eHarmony. It was 2 people around age 30 when the relationship began. They later married and had children. The relationship started around the early 2010s, prior to swipe apps.

The second woman is in an LTR and likely has no problems dating despite having more issues than Readers Digest. Childless women in their 30s and early 40s still can generate a lot of interest. The amount of interest they generate increases if they use some sort of tech-based dating method.

 

[LTG71]

I am guessing that it is likely to be is an aging woman who settled in her early 30s and a blue pill man who was mainly ignored by women for the 10-15 years prior to meeting a woman settling for whatever woman he could get. There might have been some good compatibility factors with that but the whole thing reeks of 2 people settling.


The second woman is in an LTR and likely has no problems dating despite having more issues than Readers Digest.

You hit the nail on the head with this one. The guy is a complete beta and was living with his mom at the time.

The 2nd woman has been dumped several times after the men find out she is a covert narcissist and most likely BPD. On the surface she should be up to her eyeballs in men but once they figure out she is nuts, they all run.