Cold Approach in Grocery Store

[Divorced w 3]

+1
There's an ignore button for a reason. For some reason, people who sound like they are man hating feminists want to invade this board. The only men who shame other men for dating hotter younger woman are guys who feel they can't get them anymore for whatever reason.

I've also found that some black pill guys who have been burned by pua coaches lying to them that looks don't matter now sound like feminists talking about cold approach is degrading/predatory/sleazy ect. They are only saying this because it didn't work for them and want an excuse not to try anymore. I don't shame anyone for NOT wanting to do cold approach, but shaming people for doing cold approach is disgraceful and quite frankly mods should take action on a forum like this.

There's nothing degrading about giving someone a compliment and asking them out for coffee. This world has gone mad. Oh and if you wait for choosing signals, you'll miss out on potential dates. Plenty of infields of guys approaching women who didn't give an ioi and them getting the number. I've seen it myself in person. Women randomly walking by most of the time won't give an ioi even if they think you are attractive enough to date. You don't know till you ask.

Couldn’t have said it better. I will add, cold approaching done well is almost as if you’re letting life come to you.

Cold approaching successfully is one of the most gratifying experiences in a man’s social life.

he clearly enjoys seeing himself talk and I am sure had many experiences like the ones you envisioned. The only reason I haven’t ignored yet is because I enjoy and almost feel it a service to respond with facts and help disperse this unfortunate line of thinking.

 

[oldmanofthesea]

There's nothing degrading about giving someone a compliment and asking them out for coffee. This world has gone mad. Oh and if you wait for choosing signals, you'll miss out on potential dates. Plenty of infields of guys approaching women who didn't give an ioi and them getting the number. I've seen it myself in person. Women randomly walking by most of the time won't give an ioi even if they think you are attractive enough to date. You don't know till you ask.

Sums up my feelings exactly. I just find it funny how shocked some people are when I tell them, "You know, if you see a cute girl, you can...... go up to her and talk to her." They are often like, "Wait, really? You can DO that??" The world has truly gone mad - third wave feminism has really fvcked things up for male-female dynamics, but on the positive side, if you can do what most men won't, you'll have even greater success.

And you're right about IOIs. They are nice when you get them, but all they do is tell you a girl thinks you're hot. I have been eye-fvcked and even FOLLOWED by women who, when I stopped to talk to them, mumbled a one word response and kept walking. Ironically one example of this was in a grocery store. I was walking in the opposite direction of this super hot mid-20's girl in workout gear looking like she just came from the gym and we stared at each other as our paths crossed. I was in a hurry and kept walking, deciding not to approach her, but after about 7 seconds of walking I decided to look back and when I did she had stopped right where she passed me and had turned around 180 to stare at me. I kept going and turned left down an isle to get my toothpaste. 15 seconds later who comes walking by the area outside of the isle but her. She saw me and stopped, then turned down the isle and walked toward me. As she approached I said, "I'm all turned around since they re-arranged the store last week" and she mumbled something and just kept walking - not stopping to get anything in that isle. Just because she thinks you're hot doesn't mean she's available or willing to explore something with you - whether that's a one-night stand or traditional dating. On the other hand, there are girls who didn't happen to SEE me. Maybe they would have given me IOIs if they did, but they didn't get that chance. Just as you said, you leave a lot of opportunity on the table by only going for women giving IOIs and even women giving IOIs might reject you. I have dated and slept with women who gave me IOIs and also with women who didn't.

 

[Don of the north]

And usually a good vibe comes from not being attached to the outcome. When you're not attached to the outcome and you're just satisfied with the fact that you have approached, there is less resistance, less awkwardness, the process of approaching is more enjoyable.
For me, talking to attractive women is not only about getting the number and a date, it's acting according to what I believe is right in terms of beliefs, values, etc.

I agree. You need to think of it as a process with an end goal. You're building the foundation of the house. Don't obsess over it and take it one step at a time. You have to believe eventually a woman will like you no matter how many rejections you've had and will love the fact that you approached. The best-looking guys in the world will get rejected. You should never be upset about rejection. I get upset about NOT making the approach. You miss 100 percent of the shots you don't take. No guts, no glory.

Also, that being said when I was talking about vibe, no matter how good your mentality is, sean connery from james bond is going to have a "cooler" vibe than an average joe. You just have to do the best with what god gave you.

Sums up my feelings exactly. I just find it funny how shocked some people are when I tell them, "You know, if you see a cute girl, you can...... go up to her and talk to her." They are often like, "Wait, really? You can DO that??" The world has truly gone mad - third wave feminism has really fvcked things up for male-female dynamics, but on the positive side, if you can do what most men won't, you'll have even greater success.

And you're right about IOIs. They are nice when you get them, but all they do is tell you a girl thinks you're hot. I have been eye-fvcked and even FOLLOWED by women who, when I stopped to talk to them, mumbled a one word response and kept walking. Ironically one example of this was in a grocery store. I was walking in the opposite direction of this super hot mid-20's girl in workout gear looking like she just came from the gym and we stared at each other as our paths crossed. I was in a hurry and kept walking, deciding not to approach her, but after about 7 seconds of walking I decided to look back and when I did she had stopped right where she passed me and had turned around 180 to stare at me. I kept going and turned left down an isle to get my toothpaste. 15 seconds later who comes walking by the area outside of the isle but her. She saw me and stopped, then turned down the isle and walked toward me. As she approached I said, "I'm all turned around since they re-arranged the store last week" and she mumbled something and just kept walking - not stopping to get anything in that isle. Just because she thinks you're hot doesn't mean she's available or willing to explore something with you - whether that's a one-night stand or traditional dating. On the other hand, there are girls who didn't happen to SEE me. Maybe they would have given me IOIs if they did, but they didn't get that chance. Just as you said, you leave a lot of opportunity on the table by only going for women giving IOIs and even women giving IOIs might reject you. I have dated and slept with women who gave me IOIs and also with women who didn't.

Yeah agreed. IOIs can also be misread unless they completely over the top like her giving you a big smile and saying hello first, which is basically her doing a cold approach on YOU. Many times, a woman will make eye contact with you and look at you even if she has no interest. Most women are sneaky as hell to when they are actually checking you out. Unless you have a wing woman following behind you, you won't even notice.

Women aren't men and unless you are exceptionally attractive, true ioi's from strangers just walking around in your daily routine during the day are going to be exceptionally rare.

 

[Don of the north]

I think so! I mean it's a sad day when a man (or woman) can't say hi or pay someone (a stranger) a compliment without people thinking he's some sort of beta loser and the woman being approached (and responds nicely with a smile) is a hoe/skank.

Should we all just walk around stone-faced, keeping to ourselves and not interacting with anyone?

I don't get it.

I mentioned this before, but I myself (as a woman) enjoy talking to strangers (men and women), on line at the market, waiting for the train or on the train, etc. and although I won't interrupt a man while he's reading a book or the like, I will and have taken advantage of opportunities to have a conversation, wherever it leads.

Naturally, spontaneously, nothing forced or contrived.

And I'm a introvert!!

I am not seeing what the issue is.

If I looked like a male model and could get any woman I wanted, I would absolutely cold approach. The only difference is that I'd be more picky. If I saw some stunner walking by, you think I'm not going to say hello? Of course, I'm going to say hello! And saying hello is just a start. People are acting like this is a marriage proposal. It's just a quick conversation. You might decide you don't like her after talking to her for 5 minutes.

And anyone calling a woman a skank for saying yes to a coffee date from a guy who had the guts to say hello IRL is being ridiculous, On the other hand they think A woman getting it on tinder or from her "social circle"(facebook many times) is somehow totally ok when compared to cold approach? I don't get any of this. It's illogical. Even goody two shoes church girls back in the day would date a guy they met in a coffee shop or at the grocery store. That's how people used to meet all the time. So this is all b.s.

 

[patb]

I can understand how someone could get into that mindset, however, think about it like this: Are girls generally asking men out on dates? Do you just stand around and wait, actionless, for something to happen to you, like you are a passenger in life? Girls can express their interest in you in covert ways, yes, but it only happens so often, and even if they express interest in you, they aren't going to ask you out on a date - YOU still have to do that. So even if you meet a girl through your social circle, ultimately YOU the man has to put your cards down on the table and ask her out on a date, and YOU the man has to make the move for the first kiss, etc. You put yourself up for rejection by doing this (even if you are getting signals, it's not a guarantee because some women will put signals out just to get the attention but when you ask her out, she will say no) and I understand that for many people, this is uncomfortable and scary - so much so that some guys form fantasies that prevent them from facing those fears and they literally cannot see or hear genuine facts that run contrary to their protective fantasy. That's one way to go, but wouldn't it be more ideal if you could truly get yourself to a place of self-development where a girl rejecting you has no impact on your own self-esteem and sense of self worth? This would be ideal for more than just dating... it would apply in all aspects of life, work and social.

Since you have to make the first move with women in any scenario, cold approach is simply making the first move while also cutting down vast amounts of time and effort to find out who is interested in dating you and who isn't, and it gives you an endless pool of women to select from. You are not limited by the number of women in your social circle nor constrained by any social dynamics in the social circle.

I understand those who say it is like selling yourself - or cold calling, but I don't see it that way. If you watch some day-game guys on youtube, it can definitely look like that. Classic Mystery Method would be a good example of that and some guys do operate this way - as the entertainer and the panderer. That's not how it looks or feels when I do it. I am not trying to entertain her or "get her to like me". That's the wrong frame. The frame is: I am choosing to evaluate her and if she impresses me then I will give her the opportunity to get to know me better by going on a date. I see a girl, I think she is cute, I have a polite conversation with her, and IF I like talking to her and feel there is chemistry, I ask her out. If she says no, it could be for one of hundreds of reasons, but if the reason is that she is just not into me, that's ok - I can't be every woman's type. Just because this particular girl isn't into me doesn't mean I'm not desirable to vast amounts of beautiful women. The problem is - when some people first start cold approaching, they might not know or think they are desirable to vast amounts of beautiful women. This makes it harder for them to accept and believe that they are desirable while being rejected by the first handful of women they approach. But after sticking through that first rough patch and having success, it becomes a part of you forever and now you truly know it in your core. This is very powerful.



I too felt like this when I made the choice to start. But with the right mindset shift followed by a lot of success with women I used to only dream about when I was blue-pilled, things completely changed. Having a positive attitude and facing your fears head-on will bring you much more happiness in life in general, and in your romantic life.

Lastly, I hate the terms cold approach and day game. I don't see what I do as any kind of game or trick. I see it as completely normal to make conversation with strangers. Judging by the average reaction of people I start conversations with, they feel it is normal and enjoyable as well. I only use the cold approach label to have a way of quickly describing talking to women you don't know. And while you can go out with the sole purpose of approaching a bunch of women, and I have tried that myself, I have found that to be exhausting and not worth it. These days I simply do it as I go about my daily life, which is why grocery stores are so great because I'm there twice a week.

Yes, I’ve started to adopt more of an “evaluation” framework (vis a vis an entertainment one), and it’s been helpful in reducing resentment of the process. Traditional PUA advice reduces the man to a clown in a lot of ways.

 

[pipeman84]

Are girls generally asking men out on dates? Do you just stand around and wait, actionless, for something to happen to you, like you are a passenger in life? Girls can express their interest in you in covert ways, yes, but it only happens so often, and even if they express interest in you, they aren't going to ask you out on a date - YOU still have to do that. So even if you meet a girl through your social circle, ultimately YOU the man has to put your cards down on the table and ask her out on a date, and YOU the man has to make the move for the first kiss, etc.

Firstly, you're disingenuous comparing cold approaching to warm approaching...is like saying entering in a man's house because you tried the handle and found the door unlocked is the same as entering it when the door is wide open and a red carpet is laid in front of the door. Secondly a DJ doesn't ask out on dates, he makes invitations into his world...the girl can take it or leave it...and if he's calibrated enough, there's no such thing as rejected invitation or kiss.

it gives you an endless pool of women to select from.

it gives you an endless pool of unavailable women to select from. There, you missed the key word, I fixed it for you.

I am not trying to entertain her or "get her to like me". That's the wrong frame. The frame is: I am choosing to evaluate her and if she impresses me then I will give her the opportunity to get to know me better by going on a date. I see a girl, I think she is cute, I have a polite conversation with her, and IF I like talking to her and feel there is chemistry, I ask her out. If she says no, it could be for one of hundreds of reasons, but if the reason is that she is just not into me, that's ok - I can't be every woman's type.

This sounds logical on first read but has holes big enough to sink the Titanic. You just walked fast after her to catch up with her and deliver the line: "Excuse me, I just noticed you walking past, and I thought you looked really nice'. Or you went up to her in the grocery store although she's seen you but hasn't acknowledged you exist with an eye-contact for instance.

And you give a compliment or start the conversation with a phony opener. Either way you paid unsolicited attention to her. What's the currency in the male-female exchange? Attention. You paid it, you can't take it back. So you put her high on a pedestal and now you're standing there awaiting her verdict, hoping that if she shoots you down, she'll make it a quick painless one, not hit the kneecaps. And you have the naiveté to claim that YOU are the one who evaluates her? C'mon man.

 

[Don of the north]

If I may ask, why do you think you need to look like a male model? If you feel comfortable in your own skin, if you enjoy talking and interacting with people, there is nothing bad or wrong about taking advantage of opportunities to do just that, naturally and spontaneously.

I totally 100 percent agree, but You missed my point.

You said "it's a sad day when a man (or woman) can't say hi or pay someone (a stranger) a compliment without people thinking he's some sort of beta loser "

I was simply agreeing with you and stating cold approaching is not some low value beta thing. If I was the best-looking guy in the world I would STILL approach.

 

[pipeman84]

And anyone calling a woman a skank for saying yes to a coffee date from a guy who had the guts to say hello IRL is being ridiculous, On the other hand they think A woman getting it on tinder or from her "social circle"(facebook many times) is somehow totally ok when compared to cold approach? I don't get any of this. It's illogical.

No one calls a woman a skank for saying yes to a coffee date...I and many others call her a skank if she jumps on the guy's dyck after 2-3 such dates, irrespective if the guy's from Tinder or local grocery store.

Two concepts that make a big difference between the cold approach and social circle: the warm up and play it safe. In other words, the girl is already warmed up to you, she's seen you, had time to think about you. Only just that and she feels safer if she agrees to meet you, as opposed to a total stranger she's never seen in her life and with whom she interacted for 4 min.

 

[We_ArE_VeNOM]

Anyway, one of his typical openers was "Excuse me, I just noticed you walking past, and I thought you looked really nice'.

This was on the street obviously but the line could work anywhere with some tweeking depending on where a man approached, like a grocery store, dept store, wherever.

Anyway, I thought it was a great opener and I've had guys approach saying similar- they liked my look or style, and it gave me a smile no matter if I were interested and available or not.

That may seem like a nice line for an opener..but I can see outside the box.

This is chess, not checkers, and you have to be more strategic in your approach (in my opinion).

Lets break down the line..

Man: Excuse me, I just noticed you walking past, and I thought you looked really nice'.

Now sure, on the surface, that line seems nice, polite, gentlemanly, and innocent.

But the problem is; suppose she is happily married?

So basically, you just handed her a free compliment which isn't going to get you ANYWHERE.

However, if you ask her if she is single FIRST (as I do), and if she is single, THEN hit her with the..

"That's what's up. I noticed you walking past and thought you look really nice. Mind if I got your number and maybe we can do dinner & a movie".

Or you can hit her with the "Dang, you cute" FIRST, which isn't anything but a shortened version of "Excuse me, I just noticed you walking past, and I thought you looked really nice'."

It is the same message, isn't it?

3 words compared to 15.

Ill take the 3.

Anyway, I also know women who would have completely shut him down in a very harsh way.

When you pray for rain you gotta deal with the mud, too.

There's no wrong or right imo, whatever works for you.

I agree. If it is getting you laid or providing you meaningful relationships, do what works for you.

But, if it isn't..

That goes for whether a man like @pipeman84 refuses to cold approach, or the man who opens with a silly joke or chooses to have a brief chat OR a man like @We_ArE_VeNOM who prefers to cut to the chase and omit all the "yakking" (his word).

Just do whatever the hell works for you and allow others the same without all the judgments.

Sorry guys, I know some of you believe I don't belong here, but come on, live and let live for chrissakes.

It's never black and white or one "right" way.

Everyone has their own style.

$.02

I gave my insight/experiences on cold approaching and got jumped on.

So uh...

 

[We_ArE_VeNOM]

You are wasting your time on this INCEL. I can't decide whether he is an INCEL, a professional internet troll, or both. A key identifier of a troll is someone who presents criticisms and points for debate but deliberately makes clear errors in logic and reasoning. They do this to draw you in. A troll isn't looking to win a debate, so facts and sound logic don't matter; their goal is to push buttons and get your engagement, and by using flawed logic, they know you won't be able to resist responding. The second key indicator of a troll is that when you do jump in and prove them wrong (repeatedly), they ignore that and instead they either circle back to a claim they made 10 posts ago that you already proved wrong, or they come up with a new claim that also has logical errors. The cycle continues so long as you keep engaging them.

I mean look at the crap this guy says. He comes to a forum about DJing, says he knows best how to succeed with women and we don't, then says that his sexual history is of no relevance and won't divulge any of his LOL. Seriously, no real person is that stupid. This is troll playbook 101. If you say you know best, you had better prove your method works by sharing your results. On the other hand, I have been a wide open book about my sexual history - about my successes and my failures - both during my blue pill days when I was married and didn't know how to set boundaries or properly lead a woman, and in my red pill days after my divorce where I have enjoyed ups and downs, learned a lot, and have enjoyed abundance with many hot women half my age as well as many LTRs with them. The only reason he isn't sharing his sexual history is because he doesn't have a sexual history to share. Based on his numerous admissions of autistic behaviors like not understanding how to have a basic conversation with a stranger and his refusal to share anything about his sexual history, he has exposed himself as a 38yo virgin who has concocted a defense mechanism that he uses to protect his fragile ego. He thinks that by trying to promote his "strategy" here, he will receive confirmation that his defense mechanism is valid and that his failure with women is not actually a failure, but a working strategy. His claimed "strategy" is that very few women are worthy of him and one day, the right EXTREMELY high-value woman who fits his expectations will find him (possibly through his social circle) and chase him and until that happens, he will simply sit down and wait, sexless, womanless, lacking experience, and he has been waiting a long, long time. And clearly out of all the men a woman could choose from, a high-value woman is going to be interested in..... this guy.... and chase him LOL. Any day now. Meanwhile he grows older and older, still a virgin, while we are out there experiencing abundance with attractive women half our age and enjoying relationships with them if we so choose to, by using the very methods he claims won't work.

The one redeeming thing about this guy is his brutal honesty about his non-existent sexual history. At least he isn't making something up (yet).

He has opened his mouth and been shut down enough that I am no longer worried about new visitors to this forum mistaking anything he says for sound advice, and the only way to deal with a troll is to stop feeding them.

Interesting. Very interesting indeed.

 

[oldmanofthesea]

I personally feel that immediately asking if a woman is single is putting the cart before the horse. You are a complete stranger to a woman in a cold approach and I feel you have to be very mindful of this. When you ask if they are single, it almost conveys that you are saying, "I want to fvck you" or "I want to make you my Girlfriend" and unlike men, most women generally aren't ready to agree to either of those things based on appearance alone without at least talking to you a bit in order to assess your value and their initial impression of you. I understand that you aren't asking her to agree to those things, but by answering you with a "yes I am single", there is an implied agreement of interest to move in that direction which is a lot to ask of a girl before you've said anything else.

What I think a lot of women would do in that situation is say they aren't single even if they are. But the same woman, if you talked to her a bit first, could agree to go on a date with you if she ends up being your type and you end up being hers.

As for her being married, I'm fine with handing a woman a free compliment. I'm strongly against simping, but a single polite compliment costs you nothing. At the same time, I get where guys are coming from who feel that women should NEVER be complimented for free, especially given how many simps are out there in the world today blowing up women's egos and fvcking things up for all men in the process. But my position is that one compliment to a girl isn't putting out bad energy into the world and causing harm. If someone disagrees with me on this, I totally respect that position.

I'm not saying it won't or can't work (especially since I have never tried it), and my hunch is that it may work well in some cultures but not in others. But as others have said, if it works for you and gets you the results you want, I think it's great and props to you for pulling the trigger. The proof is always in the results. You get results, then it works. And there is no arguing with that.

 

[We_ArE_VeNOM]

So apparently you are suggesting the very first words a man should say to me (a stranger) when he approaches me are "hi, are you single?" I'm sorry Venom that just sounds really awkward, not to mention intrusive. Even if I were available, I would not respond to that, I would just think he's weird.

First off, that is NOT what I said.

I dont know what it is with you and this selective quoting sh!t, but please, stop it..because you are coming across as disingenuous when you do so.

It is funny, because in the very next paragraph below, you address what I actually say as it pertains to the "very first thing a man should say"...which is completely different than what you are accusing me of saying above.

Jmo of course but the difference between "dang, you cute" and "Excuse me miss, I just noticed you walking past, and I thought you looked really nice" is the first sounds thirsty and bit ghetto (which some women might find sexy, I personally don't) and the second was delivered with finesse and class. It's a subtle difference but there is a distinction nevertheless (imo anyway).

You find "dang, you cute" to be ghetto and thirsty.

But guess what, I find..

"Excuse me, miss, I just noticed you walking past, and thought you look really nice"..

Not only do I find that^ line to be cheesy and borderline beta, but I cringe just typing out the words.

It does not fit my style at all.

I am direct and straight to the point.

If I tell a woman she is cute, then it is OBVIOUS I noticed her and thought she look nice.

It is almost 2023 so we can leave those cheesy Clark Gable lines in the 1950s where they belong.

I wouldn't respond to "dang you cute," or "damn you're hot!" (which I experienced on line but not IRL) but the second yes I would very much respond to that. And have, or similar as I said.

You are splitting hairs, here.

You can be the exception, but more often than not, if the woman finds the guy attractive then a small compliment of "Dang, you cute" should not be a deal breaker.

What my guy friend said (who by the way pulled A LOT of women), was a good opener, later in this thread, I even suggested adding "miss" to it as in "excuse me miss...." that is just so endearing! And cute and as I mentioned earlier, women love cute.

Yeah and little did he know, none of those women got with him based on what he said lol.

He could of said less (like I do) and got the same thing.

Alpha combined with polite and cute can be a winning combo for some women. Boyish and charmingly endearing which I personally LOVE.

Too much validation for the woman, and that is part of the problem.

And what's wrong with giving a woman a compliment regardless of whether it leads to a lay or a date or whatever? Or if she's got a boyfriend or married? If it turns out she is married or does have a boyfriend, you gave it a shot, you put a smile on her face. I don't understand your mindset about that.

No FREE validation.

You simply wish her well and be on your way.

I have no problem with that, after I get closure.

I mean no offense and I might be way off (and forgive me if I am), but it sounds like you are averse to bringing joy to a woman unless there is something in it for YOU (as in getting the lay). Even as something as simple as a compliment.

No FREE validation.

Like why bother saying 10 words instead of 3? Is it really a bother Venom? If so, why not just forget the whole thing? Seriously.

.

Simple. No need to go beyond what is required to get the job done.

I dunno, women tend to sense that energy and may turn some women off.

For the 50th time (not to you, but in general), even my rejections have been polite and I've even been complimented.

Anyway, I think the moral of this story is that certain approaches work for certain women and some don't.

If the right man approached you my way, it would work on you too.

You will attract women who are a good fit for you (even if for only one night) and other men with a different approach will attract women who are a good fit for them, again even if for only one night.

I agree.

But still..

 

[We_ArE_VeNOM]

I personally feel that immediately asking if a woman is single is putting the cart before the horse.

Cart before the horse? What??

Bro, if the bytch is married, wouldn't it be nice to know that part EARLY so no more of your time can be wasted??

You are a complete stranger to a woman in a cold approach and I feel you have to be very mindful of this. When you ask if they are single, it almost conveys that you are saying, "I want to fvck you"

Umm, what if I actually want to fuk her?

or "I want to make you my Girlfriend"

No. What it is saying is..

"You are cute and I am interested in you".

You are jumping to a lot of conclusions, aren't you?

and unlike men, most women generally aren't ready to agree to either of those things based on appearance alone without at least talking to you a bit in order to assess your value and their initial impression of you. I understand that you aren't asking her to agree to those things, but by answering you with a "yes I am single", there is an implied agreement of interest to move in that direction which is a lot to ask of a girl before you've said anything else.

With all due respect, that's bullsh!t.

What I think a lot of women would do in that situation is say they aren't single even if they are.

If she lies, then that is an indicator that she is not interested in you.

So you handle it like you do any other rejection; you move on.

But the same woman, if you talked to her a bit first, could agree to go on a date with you if she ends up being your type and you end up being hers.

*Sighs*

I'm not saying it won't or can't work (especially since I have never tried it), and my hunch is that it may work well in some cultures but not in others. But as others have said, if it works for you and gets you the results you want, I think it's great and props to you for pulling the trigger. The proof is always in the results. You get results, then it works. And there is no arguing with that.

Ok, I guess.

 

[pipeman84]

And you're right about IOIs. They are nice when you get them, but all they do is tell you a girl thinks you're hot. I have been eye-fvcked and even FOLLOWED by women who, when I stopped to talk to them, mumbled a one word response and kept walking. Ironically one example of this was in a grocery store. I was walking in the opposite direction of this super hot mid-20's girl in workout gear looking like she just came from the gym and we stared at each other as our paths crossed. I was in a hurry and kept walking, deciding not to approach her, but after about 7 seconds of walking I decided to look back and when I did she had stopped right where she passed me and had turned around 180 to stare at me. I kept going and turned left down an isle to get my toothpaste. 15 seconds later who comes walking by the area outside of the isle but her. She saw me and stopped, then turned down the isle and walked toward me. As she approached I said, "I'm all turned around since they re-arranged the store last week" and she mumbled something and just kept walking - not stopping to get anything in that isle.

Firstly, one has to know to read IOIs...I'm getting the distinct impression you might be confusing a woman looking at you as she passes you with an IOI and if she looks twice in your direction you take it as an eye-fvck.

Secondly, in your example you play the role of the little boy lost in the grocery store and you assign a random woman the role of the mom....please mommy, help me find the aisle where the sweets are....that's what you basically conveyed to her. But in your imagination you're this bold macho guy (unlike that pipeman84 wimp who's afraid of cold approaching ) who received plenty IOIs that didn't materialize into anything concrete. The reality is she didn't even acknowledged your existence as a man, yet in your imagination, this happened VV

I am not trying to entertain her or "get her to like me". That's the wrong frame. The frame is: I am choosing to evaluate her and if she impresses me then I will give her the opportunity to get to know me better by going on a date.

 

[SW15]

1. Day game
2. Night game
3. Online dating
4. Cold approaching
5. Social circle

Which of these games will give you the best ROI (return on investment), in your opinion?

You are one of those social circle guys, correct?

Number 4 (cold approaching) is done as a part of day game and night game. I'm not sure why this is listed separately.

If the ROI choice is between approaching strangers in non-bar settings, approaching strangers in bars/nightclubs, online dating (both swipe apps and DMing), and social circle, the best ROI will come from social circle if the circle is already built and if the circle isn't pissed at you for previous short term failed relationships.

If your social circle isn't viable, approaching strangers is a better ROI option than swipe apps. It is likely a better ROI option than sending DMs on Instagram, unless there's something great about your Instagram. On Instagram, you'd need more Followers than Following and your Follower count needs to be somewhere in the thousands. A lot of men aren't going a good enough Instagram to actually get results with DMs.

The reality is that for the introverted, sober cold approach is taxing and unenjoyable....day game in particular resembles cold calling or even panhandling. There's something fundamentally degrading about the process, whether many of you want to admit it or not.

That said, at this point in life, I'm about out of cards to play. The quality I get from OLD and bars is mostly unacceptable. So I intend to try it anyway.

You're not wrong about approaching strangers in non-bar settings. It's not fun to not be able to get attention. When you actually do get attention, it's not fun to have most conversations fizzle out prior to getting someone to agree to a future interaction and give you her number.

It would be interesting to find out why you're having issues in bar approaching. I hope you've already deleted the swipe apps.

Since you have to make the first move with women in any scenario, cold approach is simply making the first move while also cutting down vast amounts of time and effort to find out who is interested in dating you and who isn't, and it gives you an endless pool of women to select from. You are not limited by the number of women in your social circle nor constrained by any social dynamics in the social circle.

it gives you an endless pool of unavailable women to select from. There, you missed the key word, I fixed it for you.

99/100 20-30yo women will have a polite conversation with you if you are socially calibrated and don't look like a fvcking freak.

The most difficult thing in approaching women in non-bar settings is getting their attention. I think it is valid to say that a large part of this has to do with unavailability, though few women flat out say that they are unavailable. The most common ways that women express unavailability in non-bar settings is wearing earbuds (more common in gyms, parks, and paths than grocery stores) or being essentially uncommunicative and contributing to a conversation fizzling out in 30-60 seconds.

A 60 second or less polite conversation without a result is still not a fun outcome. I get way more soft nexts/conversations that go nowhere vs. harsh blowouts.

I'm fine with handing a woman a free compliment. I'm strongly against simping, but a single polite compliment costs you nothing. At the same time, I get where guys are coming from who feel that women should NEVER be complimented for free, especially given how many simps are out there in the world today blowing up women's egos and fvcking things up for all men in the process. But my position is that one compliment to a girl isn't putting out bad energy into the world and causing harm. If someone disagrees with me on this, I totally respect that position.

A free compliment in a non-bar setting approach is very mild on the scale of simping. Simping is sending money on OnlyFans without getting sex. Simping is constantly validating on Instagram.

The woman from the thread below has an army of simps in her life.

Post wall average 39 year old woman making 500K a year on OnlyFans for mild content...sad state of men

So disgraceful dudes are that thirsty these days they would pay to see mild content from an average looking post wall 39 year old woman... What the hell is wrong with these dudes? https://news.yahoo.com/meet-family-behind-texas-thighs-083012479.html

www.sosuave.net

you're right about IOIs. They are nice when you get them, but all they do is tell you a girl thinks you're hot. I have been eye-fvcked and even FOLLOWED by women who, when I stopped to talk to them, mumbled a one word response and kept walking.

I've had the false IOI symptom before. It's rare, but it's happened. It is quite annoying when it has happened.

 

[We_ArE_VeNOM]

Number 4 (cold approaching) is done as a part of day game and night game. I'm not sure why this is listed separately.

.

You are correct, sir.

I fuked that up lol.

If the ROI choice is between approaching strangers in non-bar settings, approaching strangers in bars/nightclubs, online dating (both swipe apps and DMing), and social circle, the best ROI will come from social circle if the circle is already built and if the circle isn't pissed at you for previous short term failed relationships.

Social circles are limited. Only a small pot.

If anything, you have to utilize ALL those tools (settings), but cold approaching gives you a larger playing field and will give you the best results as far as the amount of fish in the sea.

Since it is a numbers game anyway, the larger the number is, the greater your chances are.

If your social circle isn't viable, approaching strangers is a better ROI option than swipe apps.

I agree.

 

[SW15]

one of his typical openers was "Excuse me, I just noticed you walking past, and I thought you looked really nice'.

I have used this exact sentence, and many variations of it hundreds of times. I use it when the girl and I aren't sharing any mutual experience that I can talk to her about and especially if I have to actually stop a girl who is walking. In those situations, being direct is best. Somewhere between 97 and 99% of women are flattered.

@oldmanofthesea and PUAs such as A.G. Hayden and Austen Summers use this line.

I think there is a difference between outdoor game (parks, paths, the street) vs. retail game (including grocery stores). Outdoors, it seems to be advantageous to go more direct like the line being discussed above. With indoor retail game, going more indirect about her outfit, a book she's holding (bookstore), or something in her grocery basket/some grocery item in the store (grocery store) is probably the stronger approach.

It is well-known red-pill 101 that a man's SMV peaks in his mid 40's. There are gigabytes worth of posts here on SS over the years demonstrating how older men routinely meet, sleep with, and get into relationships with much younger women. You choose to ignore that and make excuses instead.

I have seen the famous SMV chart over time where Rollo Tomassi illustrates male SMV peak around late 30s. There are various red pill influencers who place peak male SMV somewhere between 35-45.

The problem with the idea that peak male SMV falls somewhere between 35-45 is that it is only applicable for a small subset of men. Before I go on, I will acknowledge that there are some men 35-45 who can date women 10+ years younger. Let's think about the actual experience in the mating marketplace for a 35-45 year old man. The typical man in the 35-45 range is a pusssy beggar who ends up settling for some mediocre or subpar woman close to his own age (at most 3-4 years younger). He's usually swiping profusely through every woman in his area in order to get that mediocre match. That doesn't seem like a peak SMV experience to me.

In general, it's better to be 24-28 and get women close to your own age, like 22-27.

Women don't ideally want to meet a man on a dating app or at a night club - they would rather meet him by accident - at a park, on an airplane, in the grocery store or at garden store.

I think this is true. However, from the perspective of an approacher, it's super difficult to do a lot of those non-bar setting approaches. The main advantage of doing approaches in bars/nightclubs or running swipe app game is that it is known that the woman is seeking new penis. With approaching strangers in non-bar settings, chances are that a man is approaching a woman who isn't looking for a new penis. Women both in relationships and women looking for new penis are in parks, on paths, on airplanes, and in the grocery store.

I think it is easy for men to get discouraged in failing to capture attention in non-bar settings. Part of this problem is related to the fact that the women out in non-bar settings often aren't in the market for new penis. That leads to a lot of short conversations that go nowhere and even an inability to approach, such as earbuds in the parks, on the paths, and on the general gym floors. I was even seeing earbuds in the grocery store in the late 2010s, something I haven't seen since indoor masking became a thing at the onset of the pandemic. I think women were starting to wear earbuds in the grocery store in my area as a means to actively discourage grocery store approaching. While few men actually have the guts to grocery store approach, there are enough men out there who will do it and will probably not do it well, leading to some women getting annoyed and deciding to use earbuds. I do think that bougie/yuppie Millennial women being more socially inept is also a factor in why I saw this.

I got into approaching in non-bar settings simply because I didn't want to stay up late and drink alcohol to meet women. I had interest in doing so as early as 22 when I first heard about guys meeting women in yoga classes, but didn't start doing it until my late 20s when I read Roosh's "Day Bang" when it first came out.

I have had women text me after the fact that they enjoyed meeting me in an unexpected way after a non-bar approach when I got their number. This has happened in instances where I was doing a planned outdoor approach session.

I met my ex wife at a veterinarians office. We were both there with our dogs so I asked her a question about her dog and we got to talking about dogs and that got us talking about hiking and that got us talking about where we like to hike and that we like to camp and that we like to listen to music while we camp and that we like to listen to the same type of music. She was 23 when we met. I was 33. After my appointment was over I told her we should meet up and take the dogs for a hike soon and she immediately handed me a piece of paper with her phone number already written down on it - in hopes that I would ask her.

That's solid non-bar approaching. Women do like this, as evidenced by what I said about women texting me after I set a date/got their numbers through a non-bar approach.

It'd be impossible to plan out an attractive 23 year old being at a veterinarian's office at the same time that you are there. It's impossible to linger in a vet's office, unlike indoor retail game or doing outdoor approach sessions. You saw an opportunity, demonstrated at least adequate social skills, and set a date leading to an extended relationship. Even though you were a blue pilled beta male at that time, you still could recognize opportunity, demonstrate social skill, and have enough courage to initiate. Fewer and fewer men seem to be able to do this now as even compared to 15 years ago.

Man, I found the book online, read the grocery store chapter and had a good laugh followed by an exclamation of Jesus Christ! No wonder the guy went insane....I mean, the whole behaviour of lingering in the grocery store, stalking girls and examining their shopping carts reeks. And to use those lines with a serious face would take a pretty low self esteem/retarded guy to begin with. He was 32 when the book was published...I don't know, maybe a clueless teen early 20s guy might be excused if he falls for it, tries it a bit and realizes the absurdity.
But to advocate 40+ yrs old guys do this shyt is basically trolling.

The incident that caused Roosh's emotional breakdown was when his sister died of breast cancer at age 31. I believe Roosh was 38 (nearly 39) when that happened. You're correct that Roosh published "Day Bang" at age 32 in 2011.

That advice was written for men of all ages, but likely men 22-35 were the ones buying his book in the 2011-2016 era.

I will say that multiple hours lingering in grocery stores is quite challenging. My own personal practice in grocery store was to cap my grocery store time at one hour. I would do something like 1 hour in one grocery store on a Saturday, and then 1 hour on Sunday/a weeknight in the same week. In my experience, it is impossible to approach enough volume of women in grocery stores and other retail venues (malls, bookstores) without some amount of lingering for an extended period.

Asking out what's in someone's grocery basket and using the GALNUC framework is a decent approach to grocery store game. GALNUC is a good framework for early stage-intermediate level approachers. Some of the best approachers can move beyond GALNUC in sequencing an indoor retail conversation, but it would take years of approaching to be able to strongly free style an approach.

 

[pipeman84]

If the ROI choice is between approaching strangers in non-bar settings, approaching strangers in bars/nightclubs, online dating (both swipe apps and DMing), and social circle, the best ROI will come from social circle if the circle is already built and if the circle isn't pissed at you for previous short term failed relationships.

I propose a paradigm shift: how about strangers (females) approaching YOU? BAM. Ever thought of that one?
There's this beggar vibe combined with FOMO flowing throughout this thread...approach with this line, no, this one it's more macho, let's play the bumbling guy role at the fruit counter or the lost little boy in the middle of aisle no.3. That's feminine energy....women are supposed to be asking silly questions in order to attract attention from a man, not the other way around.

If no woman approaches you (meaning IOIs or chit chat) then probably it's YOU...either your looks/vibe or you're not exposed for long enough time to available women. Either seek to indentify and fix the real issues or use brute force cold approaching. I'll let the reader decide which option is more manly and desirable.

 

[oldmanofthesea]

@We_ArE_VeNOM - We are both advocates of talking to women we don't know and we both have great success doing it. My comments were not meant as a criticism of the differences between the way you do it and the way I do it; I was simply breaking down why I do some specific things differently than you - exactly the same way you did when you explained why you don't like saying what I sometimes say, "Excuse me miss, I just noticed you walking past, and I thought you looked really nice" and instead you prefer asking, "Are you single?"

So you feel it's ok for you to explain how you do things differently and why, but if I do the same in response, you get defensive and angry? If you can't have a friendly discussion about the specific nuances of what we both agree is an overall working technique, then there is no point in discussion at all so I will leave you alone to say whatever you want as the final and official word.

A 60 second or less polite conversation without a result is still not a fun outcome.

That is a mindset thing. If you reframe things in your mind to see interacting with strangers as enjoyable, then it's fun. When you talk to a guy you don't know, you are doing it to make conversation and you enjoy that so the same can be true for conversations with women. If you view a 60 second conversation with a woman who ultimately doesn't give you sex as a failure, then you are being outcome dependent. I understand the default-nature of people will be to want something specific and if they don't get it they become disappointed, but it comes back to the whole power of positive thinking.

The typical man in the 35-45 range is a pusssy beggar who ends up settling for some mediocre or subpar woman close to his own age (at most 3-4 years younger). He's usually swiping profusely through every woman in his area in order to get that mediocre match. That doesn't seem like a peak SMV experience to me.

In general, it's better to be 24-28 and get women close to your own age, like 22-27.

No argument from me on ay of that. But any 35-45yo man who is on this forum has the information they need to step out of that category and enjoy success. It doesn't matter if he won't do as well as a 25yo guy because it's not a competition. If a 45yo guy can still have regular success with women in their 20's then it's a win.

The main advantage of doing approaches in bars/nightclubs or running swipe app game is that it is known that the woman is seeking new penis.

I'm going to disagree with you on this because I have seen first-hand that many women in bars and on swipe apps are not looking for new penis at all. Many women on swipe apps are looking only for attention and a recent survey even showed that something like 70% of women on swipe apps say they aren't serious about meeting someone and are just there out of boredom and want attention/validation. Women go to bars for many different reasons. I've approached many women in bars only to find they aren't single. They are out with friends. I find the single/taken rate to be the same in bars as on the street or in the grocery store, personally. Plus I quit drinking a while ago so I just can't stand being in bars.

I have had women text me after the fact that they enjoyed meeting me in an unexpected way after a non-bar approach when I got their number. This has happened in instances where I was doing a planned outdoor approach session.

Yes same here and this is just proof that women enjoy being approached and meeting strangers. I once met a girl while waiting for the train. Super skinny little red head - probably about 22. She was reading a book so I asked her what it was about. I expanded the conversation out from the book to how it related to her real life, where she worked, what she liked about it, what she ultimately wanted to do in life, etc. This conversation continued to the train coming, our sitting next to each other on the train talking for the duration of the 30 minute trip, and my asking for her contact info so we could "go walk our dogs sometime." She gave it to me and without my reaching out to her, she reached out to me to say, "It was great talking to you. Thanks for saying hi, it made my morning!"

It'd be impossible to plan out an attractive 23 year old being at a veterinarian's office at the same time that you are there. It's impossible to linger in a vet's office, unlike indoor retail game or doing outdoor approach sessions. You saw an opportunity, demonstrated at least adequate social skills, and set a date leading to an extended relationship. Even though you were a blue pilled beta male at that time, you still could recognize opportunity, demonstrate social skill, and have enough courage to initiate. Fewer and fewer men seem to be able to do this now as even compared to 15 years ago.

Yeah man, it's pretty funny because even today I have NO idea what gave me the courage to do that while I was blue pilled. I had almost never talked to a hot stranger prior to that. In the moment I saw her, I was in awe. She was seriously among the cutest girls I'd ever seen. Totally my type. Teeny tiny with incredible legs and azz. Something just came over me in the moment and told me, "Nothing is ever going to happen if you just sit and wait for it. What do you have to lose?" So I talked to her and the rest is history. I never got the courage to do that again after my divorce until I found red pill and spent some years learning and working on myself.

I will say that multiple hours lingering in grocery stores is quite challenging. My own personal practice in grocery store was to cap my grocery store time at one hour. I would do something like 1 hour in one grocery store on a Saturday, and then 1 hour on Sunday/a weeknight in the same week. In my experience, it is impossible to approach enough volume of women in grocery stores and other retail venues (malls, bookstores) without some amount of lingering for an extended period.

That's why I never go out with the specific intention of approaching anymore. I tried it and the juice isn't worth the squeeze, for me anyway. If in a busy city with tons of slender hot women walking around, like NYC for example, I have, and would linger somewhere to meet women and it has paid off in spades. That is how I met the 23yo ballerina I ended up dating. But it's not good enough where I live so I just do it as I go about my daily life.

 

[SW15]

I will say that multiple hours lingering in grocery stores is quite challenging. In my experience, it is impossible to approach enough volume of women in grocery stores and other retail venues (malls, bookstores) without some amount of lingering for an extended period.

That's why I never go out with the specific intention of approaching anymore. I tried it and the juice isn't worth the squeeze, for me anyway. If in a busy city with tons of slender hot women walking around, like NYC for example, I have, and would linger somewhere to meet women and it has paid off in spades.

@DreamAgain had a good post about meeting women organically in Dallas below.

Pregnancy Announcements Everywhere! Life When Your Blue Pill Social Circle Starts Having Babies

Wait till they start trying to set you up when you’re invited over - Hank Moody’s the character is always getting setup but all the chicks were hot, not quite the case in real life…it’s often someone’s sister that’s thoroughly unbangable. The 5 recent social circle pregnancies I've mentioned...

www.sosuave.net

In order to do non-bar venue approaching in Dallas, lingering/dedicated approach sessions is a must. Because Dallas isn't very good for organic meetings as @DreamAgain pointed out, lingering becomes necessary in non-bar approaching to make something happen.

I like your feedback that the juice isn't worth the squeeze on dedicated approach sessions/lingering.

The main advantage of doing approaches in bars/nightclubs or running swipe app game is that it is known that the woman is seeking new penis. With approaching strangers in non-bar settings, chances are that a man is approaching a woman who isn't looking for a new penis.

I'm going to disagree with you on this because I have seen first-hand that many women in bars and on swipe apps are not looking for new penis at all. Many women on swipe apps are looking only for attention and a recent survey even showed that something like 70% of women on swipe apps say they aren't serious about meeting someone and are just there out of boredom and want attention/validation. Women go to bars for many different reasons. I've approached many women in bars only to find they aren't single. They are out with friends. I find the single/taken rate to be the same in bars as on the street or in the grocery store, personally. Plus I quit drinking a while ago so I just can't stand being in bars.

My original quote above was likely too theoretical. I don’t run swipe app game anymore and you’re right that a lot of women are doing swipe apps more for the validation than anything else.
You’re also right that bars aren’t exclusively single women either. There have been times over the years I got frustrated at a bar when a woman was there and wasn’t single and wasn’t looking for new penis. She was taking up space that could have been occupied by a woman seeking new penis.

YouTube content creator Wheat Waffles (mainly black pill) put together a good list of why women go to bars/nightclubs. I’ve linked the list below. In a lot of ways, it is a time waster.

Why do you think the single/taken rate in bars is similar to outdoors (park/path/street) and grocery stores?