Why Have So Many Well Known Pickup Artists Had Major Personal Issues?

[MatureDJ]

... Strauss was a Gen X'er and inceldom didn't become big until the Millennial generation became more prominent.

I am a Gen-Xer, and I can say that the dark cloud of inceldom started to make itself known in the mid-90s.

 

[MatureDJ]

They cracked the code back in the day, but today much more nuance is required. Never before has an IDGAF attitude been so important. Most men today broadcast that they are beggars. It’s on them like body odor. It permeates the air around them.

The bottom line though (and most men are blind to this), chasing the P is an exercise in dissipation on so many different levels. It diminishes men and completely destroys women. The most intimate act between a man and a woman has become such a cheap commodity that real relationships are all but impossible. There will be no reversal.

I find that the only solution for me not to be in beg-mode is to EscortMax.

 

[MatureDJ]

Now granted, some PUAs are genuinely psycho and do not need to be out there. Sasha was a buffoon who set the game community back years by harassing women on the streets. That one Pakistani guy in Scotland that got arrested was an idiot.

Do you have links to the stories about these PUAs?

 

[SW15]

I am a Gen-Xer, and I can say that the dark cloud of inceldom started to make itself known in the mid-90s.

It's possible it had beginnings then. That's why Strauss was a unique case as a 1969 birth. Strauss was a 1990s incel before getting immersed in the whole pickup culture. Part of the reason that Strauss was a 1990s incel was his height. Strauss is only 5'6". Most men below 5'8" are incel or experience sexual scarcity for extended periods of time. This is especially true for White men, who are generally taller than Hispanic men. Hispanic men can get away with being shorter since Hispanics in general are shorter.

Rates of male sexlessness didn't increase substantially until the high speed internet era of the 2000s and smartphone/app era of the 2010s. That's when incels and men experiencing long sexual droughts became more mainstream. Additionally, biological sex ratios started to become more unfavorable to men in the 2000s.

In the 21st Century, we're seeing more married men getting less sex than they were in the past too, which is a dangerous trend. After a certain point in a marriage, marital sex becomes infrequent. To an actual incel, married men in 3-5+ year long marriages only having sex 1-2 times a month doesn't sound too bad, but it is a lousy deal for the married man. The married men has to put up with a bunch of marital bullshiit for limited sex, whereas single men getting little to no sex have complete freedom over their lives.

A lot of men who become interested in PUA content have substandard sex lives and are looking to improve.

 

[HaleyBaron]

It's possible it had beginnings then. That's why Strauss was a unique case as a 1969 birth. Strauss was a 1990s incel before getting immersed in the whole pickup culture. Part of the reason that Strauss was a 1990s incel was his height. Strauss is only 5'6". Most men below 5'8" are incel or experience sexual scarcity for extended periods of time. This is especially true for White men, who are generally taller than Hispanic men. Hispanic men can get away with being shorter since Hispanics in general are shorter.

Rates of male sexlessness didn't increase substantially until the high speed internet era of the 2000s and smartphone/app era of the 2010s. That's when incels and men experiencing long sexual droughts became more mainstream. Additionally, biological sex ratios started to become more unfavorable to men in the 2000s.

In the 21st Century, we're seeing more married men getting less sex than they were in the past too, which is a dangerous trend. After a certain point in a marriage, marital sex becomes infrequent. To an actual incel, married men in 3-5+ year long marriages only having sex 1-2 times a month doesn't sound too bad, but it is a lousy deal for the married man. The married men has to put up with a bunch of marital bullshiit for limited sex, whereas single men getting little to no sex have complete freedom over their lives.

A lot of men who become interested in PUA content have substandard sex lives and are looking to improve.

The reason isn't because of the internet. Kids in general are growing up less social and men more effeminate, while girls are becoming more autistic in their social calibration despite women supposedly being the stronger social gender. People say it's video games, but it's mostly just the safe space nature of schools and laws that are making boys be less of boys with discouragement of causing ruckus and girls are being taught to be "empowered" something no girl biologically or mentally wants to do. It's reverse world and it's f*cking everything up.

 

[SW15]

The reason isn't because of the internet. Kids in general are growing up less social and men more effeminate, while girls are becoming more autistic in their social calibration despite women supposedly being the stronger social gender. People say it's video games, but it's mostly just the safe space nature of schools and laws that are making boys be less of boys with discouragement of causing ruckus and girls are being taught to be "empowered" something no girl biologically or mentally wants to do. It's reverse world and it's f*cking everything up.

I didn't say it was the internet though the rise of the internet occurred at the same time as the rise of inceldom.

I agree that women are getting more autistic in their socialization. In general, women still have stronger social skills than men. In some of my social spheres, I've seen socially inept, educated White women. My best friend's wife claimed a few years ago that she'd never been approached in a grocery store. That seemed false to me. She was probably about 30-31 when she made that claim and in her early to mid 20s, she was borderline cute-hot. It had to have happened, she was just too socially autistic to realize it. Some other White women who ran in the same circle as the woman I just mentioned are comparable in their social ineptitude, but all have found long term boyfriends and husbands.

I perceive that male effemininity is more pronounced in White men than non-White men.

Culture has not socialized boys effectively since at least the onset of the 1990s, when the Millennials were small children. There are now 35-40 year Millennial males who never learned how to be men through traditional social means. A lot of men lacked good father figures and were raised by single moms to be docile beta males. Schools didn't effectively handle bullying.

Video games and internet porn didn't help either.

I have seen PUA as a good thing. I have seen the PUA movemnt help men that didn't get socialized properly. However, PUA was more of a Gen X thing than a Gen Y/Millennial thing. Most of the PUA leaders were Gen X'ers like Torero, Strauss, Mystery, and Roosh. Rollo Tomassi is also a Gen X'er. It's more difficult to name a major PUA or Manosphere voice coming out of the Millennial cohort.

 

[HaleyBaron]

I will admit porn really, really shook things up.

 

[SW15]

I will admit porn really, really shook things up.

Internet porn via high speed internet really shook things up. Porn had been around for a long time before high speed internet became more prevalent. Playboy had been around going back to the 1950s. VHS porn started around the late 1970s.

Men turn to porn after taking multiple rejections from women in real life in most cases.

Porn is a coping mechanism. It can be used as a numbing agent. It is dangerous to dopamine and to being good at approaching and seducing. Some PUAs/Manosphere types discuss this, others do not.

 

[HaleyBaron]

Internet porn via high speed internet really shook things up. Porn had been around for a long time before high speed internet became more prevalent. Playboy had been around going back to the 1950s. VHS porn started around the late 1970s.

Men turn to porn after taking multiple rejections from women in real life in most cases.

Porn is a coping mechanism. It can be used as a numbing agent. It is dangerous to dopamine and to being good at approaching and seducing. Some PUAs/Manosphere types discuss this, others do not.

Let's be honest: if hookers were legal, it would be a whole different ballgame here in the USA. It's still a shamed practice, too, so not many men who cant get regular sex can even go somewhere legal to get their frustration out. So men have to go to shady places and it just hurts them in the long run. If it was not illegal, a lot of incel problems would be solved. It would also put women on notice that they now have actual competition.

 

[BillyPilgrim]

There is no benefit to chasing more and more of the same thing. It doesn't matter what it is, be it pvssy, business deals, money, gambling, drugs, etc. If you chase it too much, if you do it for the thrill and become addicted, you will eventually burn out and be miserable.

You always need to have a stopping point in mind.

I think there is a "wall" aspect to this, similar to professional athletes. You get addicted to the high of conquest/cheering fans and when that's no longer accessible (at least not at the same level, in the case of the pua), there is a withdrawal effect in addition to the burnout effect. In the pua's case, you have the factors of age in addtion to the declining SMP. It's analogous to an athlete aging out of his sport at the same time the sport itself is dwindling in popularity.

 

[MatureDJ]

Internet porn via high speed internet really shook things up. Porn had been around for a long time before high speed internet became more prevalent. Playboy had been around going back to the 1950s. VHS porn started around the late 1970s.

Men turn to porn after taking multiple rejections from women in real life in most cases.

Porn is a symptom of the wasteland, not a cause of it.

 

[eli77]

Interesting that you bring up age. A lot of the well known pickup artists were Gen X'ers (1965-1980/1981 birth years)

• Roosh (born 1979)
• Mystery (born 1971)
• David DeAngelo (born 1971)
• Neil Strauss (born 1969)

Tom Torero, Caleb Jones (Blackdragon), and even Tucker Max were all born in the Gen X years.

There are many fewer big name Millennial (1981/82-1996) pickup artists. I think Austen Summers is one. Millennials are appearing to be more black pill, into porn/mbating on tube sites, or peddling NFTs than practicing attraction and seduction.

Cigarettes and video games as well

 

[eli77]

Neil and mystery seem to be pretty well off when you compare them to traditional Don Juan's and sex addicts Neil has his own podcast and is in a whole different field he has reinvented himself which is a good thing if you ever read The art of seduction or any other book by Robert Greene.

 

[Gamisch]

Let's be honest: if hookers were legal, it would be a whole different ballgame here in the USA. It's still a shamed practice, too, so not many men who cant get regular sex can even go somewhere legal to get their frustration out. So men have to go to shady places and it just hurts them in the long run. If it was not illegal, a lot of incel problems would be solved. It would also put women on notice that they now have actual competition.

Nope. One could argue the IN becomes VOLcel( voluntary) but its doesnt work that way. In my region prostitution is legal but you are still dealing with a " real woman". A incel at some point becomes scared of women. He forgets what pvssy feels like and designs his life so that pvssy isnt even a necessity anymore. It also a expensive thing to do in the long run. Plus the stigma , a mans self esteem might still take hit after hit.

But most importantly; it wont fix issues with game. So let's take a regular visitor for example. He is a self proclaimed sex addict, and doesn't have to work on game now. This guy in the States would at very least do what's necessary (hit the gym, make money approach) now he can just visit a hooker and is done with it. You actually gotta be redpilled to do this consistently. Then it's a lotta fun. A blue piller will die in shame and self pity over here.

Women do offer a GFE tho( gf experience), but it will cost you a 100 bucks for 30 minutes.

 

[HaleyBaron]

Nope. One could argue the IN becomes VOLcel( voluntary) but its doesnt work that way. In my region prostitution is legal but you are still dealing with a " real woman". A incel at some point becomes scared of women. He forgets what pvssy feels like and designs his life so that pvssy isnt even a necessity anymore. It also a expensive thing to do in the long run. Plus the stigma , a mans self esteem might still take hit after hit.

But most importantly; it wont fix issues with game. So let's take a regular visitor for example. He is a self proclaimed sex addict, and doesn't have to work on game now. This guy in the States would at very least do what's necessary (hit the gym, make money approach) now he can just visit a hooker and is done with it. You actually gotta be redpilled to do this consistently. Then it's a lotta fun. A blue piller will die in shame and self pity over here.

Women do offer a GFE tho( gf experience), but it will cost you a 100 bucks for 30 minutes.

They already do GFE in the form of sugar daddies and OnlyFans. So it's not like these guys aren't already use to spending the money.

 

[SW15]

What I have experienced is that you need to be a little bit crazy in order to be successful in life. Think about "game" for a second. You are voluntarily signing yourself up to be rejected by beautiful women and have your ego bruised and battered worse than Rihana when she dated Chris Brown.

I like how you categorize the abuse. Below is something I said recently on another thread. It's essentially the same thing as what you said....

I have been disrespected, humiliated, and emotionally abused via approaching strangers. The same thing has happened in swipe app dating. The treatment is unreal and inhumane. If I were a dog and I was treated as poorly as I have been in approaching, I would be in one of those ASPCA commercials.

Similarly with PUA, it is abnormal by the standard of society. You are to meet your future wife through church, through social circle, or through work. You are not supposed to meet your one night stand or lover through the day because that is not "normal". So often times the very people that push against the standards of society are abnormal and in many cases, do have "issues". It has been the case throughout history.

Yes, that's insightful. It's funny how swipe apps have replaced night game in a lot of ways as the non-social circle or non-work way to meet women. Non-bar approaching has always been a niche activity.

I have found over the years that the vast majority of successful men in any place to some degree have issues of some kind. The reason is that people who are "sane" are often happy and content with the mediocre. Most "normal" people are okay living a "normal" life. A "normal" life includes marry a very average girl, getting a house in the suburbs, and following life to the very script that you were supposed to. A lot of the people that break free from that mold to some degree are strange by the standard of society whether it is a famous musician, famous actor, famous writer, or even successful businesspeople.

That life script is not a good life script as I see it. I see my friends and acquaintances in my main social circle following that script. They have followed it without question or without an analysis of readily available points. Even if they know the points about the probability of failed marriages, they have conveniently ignored them or they believe that they can beat the odds.

 

[Travel memoir21]

I'll tell you why they've had a lot of personal issues.

This stuff is like a drug to a lot of Men. Validation is like a drug and when you get enough of it you're feeling great the first few moments or so. But when you don't, you feel like total crap because that was your main source of self esteem and high.

When it comes to this stuff you need to have something higher emotionally and spiritually that gives you a more sense of euphoria than women/pick up/ dating/ relationships etc. Or you will be a slave to it for life.

In other words, you've got to find more meaning in your life than getting approval and validation from people especially women.

 

[eli77]

During their time their stuff worked, however it was able to penetrate the matrix and various social hierarchies at that time. The people in those social hierarchies aren't going to let someone outside of their group having "pull", so they all closed the doors together. It's been "shut down" or at least there is a large drive to do that and keep it that way.

the smart guys nowadays read books by Jordan peterson and look to the classics for guidance that's what I did

 

[SW15]

I'll tell you why they've had a lot of personal issues.

This stuff is like a drug to a lot of Men. Validation is like a drug and when you get enough of it you're feeling great the first few moments or so. But when you don't, you feel like total crap because that was your main source of self esteem and high.

When it comes to this stuff you need to have something higher emotionally and spiritually that gives you a more sense of euphoria than women/pick up/ dating/ relationships etc. Or you will be a slave to it for life.

In other words, you've got to find more meaning in your life than getting approval and validation from people especially women.

Sex is a form of validation. It's a very powerful form of validation. Some guys can go too far with it.

 

[HaleyBaron]

Jordan peterson

Not anymore. Guy sold out hard.

"Get rid of anonymity so the bourgeois can go after you. Also, support israel."