Vaccines got full FDA approval

lost_blackbird

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I don't like the term anti-vaxxer. I really don't care what anybody else has pumped into them, if that's
what they want to do then by all means, knock yourself out. If you and I are friends and you are vaxxed
and I'm not then sincerely, good luck to you. We'll only have a problem if you start trying to lecture me
into doing what you chose to do. I won't tell you I don't believe you should have done that nor will I
condemn your choice. What you put in your body is your business, it's really up to you. I have waved
goodbye to a couple with whom I was really close friends ( I was best man at their wedding) over
this exact point, they felt it was their place to hector me constantly for not doing the same thing they
did because I was living in their house. It wasn't and it isn't. They were however quite happy to take a
total of £8000 in rent from me over my stay there though. So they can go and kick rocks now after
a 10 year friendship. I don't need friends who don't respect my choices. I've never even had a covid test.
 

bcude

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There have already been surveys of highly educated people (eg. PhDs etc.) saying that they are avoiding it
That's interesting to me since the area where i live - considered the richest, most educated part of the country - is also the area with the most vaccinated people, whereas the poorer areas show the exact opposite and it's not even close.
I think that anti-vaxxers tend to eagerly show a (any) doctor who shares their worldview to give their arguments more credibility. Higher education seem to correlate with more vaccinations and these are not the people who "conform easily", rather the opposite. They're educated, rich and successful and not because they're followers. They think for themselves and always choose options with probability on their side. Success is not a coincidence.
 

corrector

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If jews run the world, why is israel the most vaccinated country in the world?

The virus was created by the Chinese not the Jews, the Jews in israel are suffering like the rest of us.
To be the devil's advocate, I think what he's talking about is a particular class of atheistic and godless Jews, who have formed a secret society and have subtly taken over financial and other cultural institutions in America and other first world countries for their own nefarious purposes. They will disown or not care about their own country since they are an elitist class and aren't even religious Jews. He's not talking about the everyday type of Jew that we all know, love and defend. Dishonest right-wing agents may try and paint all Jews with the same brush. This is so wrong because every society could have an elitist class of people that gets a disproportionate amount of benefits at the expense of the many. Nowhere is immune from that pyramid.

Either way, he just spouts out conspiracy theories. I have seen many posters on this thread and site, who were initially hesitant to getting vaccinated, eventually get vaccinated when the government start getting mandates for employment, gym, and other functions of life despite what he has been saying.
The irony is, if people really took him seriously, they would more likely be freaking-out and resisting the vaccine precisely because of the vaccine mandates.

I'm in that group too. I probably would eventually get vaccinated if there was a strong enough mandate. However, just restricting me from places I barely visited once in a blue moon before the pandemic is not going to convince me to run to get a shot. Only those who are strongly convicted against the vaccine will hold out to the end despite the mandates or being threatened with going to jail if they don't get jabbed.
 
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HaleyBaron

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If jews run the world, why is israel the most vaccinated country in the world?

The virus was created by the Chinese not the Jews, the Jews in israel are suffering like the rest of us.
If I chose to believe in covid, I'd say that it was created by both. The jewish medical industry has been working in Wuhan since the 1900s.

Since I believe covid is a myth, my position stands that it's a media plow by the masters of industry who control the news, the government, the social media, and the medical industry. It's all power. Nothing to do with health. If they cared about health, they would be focusing on heart disease, cancer causing ingredients being put into store products (which btw, most of these individuals have stock in the companies in, including terrible stuff like McDonalds and Pepsi), and taking care of the pollution that plagues all cities, especially in China and India. Influenza has its origins btw in heavy pollution, something that still affects major cities today. There is more to this entire thing than this merely being based off some virus that hasn't even been proven to exist yet.
 

corrector

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I don't like the term anti-vaxxer. I really don't care what anybody else has pumped into them, if that's
what they want to do then by all means, knock yourself out. If you and I are friends and you are vaxxed
and I'm not then sincerely, good luck to you. We'll only have a problem if you start trying to lecture me
into doing what you chose to do. I won't tell you I don't believe you should have done that nor will I
condemn your choice. What you put in your body is your business, it's really up to you. I have waved
goodbye to a couple with whom I was really close friends ( I was best man at their wedding) over
this exact point, they felt it was their place to hector me constantly for not doing the same thing they
did because I was living in their house. It wasn't and it isn't. They were however quite happy to take a
total of £8000 in rent from me over my stay there though. So they can go and kick rocks now after
a 10 year friendship. I don't need friends who don't respect my choices. I've never even had a covid test.
I've been trying to convince myself to take this vaccine since May, lecturing myself, arguing with myself, making up threads, making even pro-vax arguments. At least your ex-friends are external. If I can't convince myself to get vaccinated, then I don't know who can. I'm probably worst than your ex-friends are on myself.
 

EyeBRollin

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Since I believe covid is a myth, my position stands that it's a media plow by the masters of industry who control the news, the government, the social media, and the medical industry. It's all power.
Here on planet earth, thousands are dying every day of COVID-19. In wealthier countries, it is those that refuse to get vaccinated.
 

HaleyBaron

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Here on planet earth, thousands are dying every day of COVID-19. In wealthier countries, it is those that refuse to get vaccinated.
This is false. Thousands are dying for far other reasons than some general wash of a covid ailment. People were dying before 2020. The only reasons are down is because there were less people going out, so less accidents and less idiots doing idiotic things. The truth of the matter is that people die more to heart disease and cancer causing agents from the shampoo and such you use than from any lung-based disease. Btw, smoking and vaping still cause more lung problems than any kind of virus. I'm sure you haven't forgotten the "scientists prove cigarettes are good for you" campaigns. They were led by experts, too.
 

EyeBRollin

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This is false.
No sir it’s not.

Thousands are dying for far other reasons than some general wash of a covid ailment. People were dying before 2020. The only reasons are down is because there were less people going out, so less accidents and less idiots doing idiotic things. The truth of the matter is that people die more to heart disease and cancer causing agents from the shampoo and such you use than from any lung-based disease. Btw, smoking and vaping still cause more lung problems than any kind of virus. I'm sure you haven't forgotten the "scientists prove cigarettes are good for you" campaigns. They were led by experts, too.
Look at this deflection. He can’t handle the reality.
 

HaleyBaron

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No sir it’s not.

Look at this deflection. He can’t handle the reality.
It's kinda sad that you're afraid to have a little knowledge to what is perhaps one of the most obvious marketing campaigns. You're on SS. Here, we help our fellow men out in seeing the lies and untruths of this world. I just gave you one of the most crucial tips concerning feminine society, and your response is as I expected female-like. If you cannot trust your brethren, then you are still part of the female world. Take it as an insult if you want to, but it is what it is.
 

EyeBRollin

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It's kinda sad that you're afraid to have a little knowledge to what is perhaps one of the most obvious marketing campaigns. You're on SS. Here, we help our fellow men out in seeing the lies and untruths of this world. I just gave you one of the most crucial tips concerning feminine society, and your response is as I expected female-like. If you cannot trust your brethren, then you are still part of the female world. Take it as an insult if you want to, but it is what it is.
I speak in empirical terms. Data, facts, and statistics. All you’ve put forth are conspiracy theories. Those of us here on planet earth have witnessed COVID-19.
 

lost_blackbird

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Actually no. Your choice to willingly carry COVID-19 affects me. Your mentality is killing a lot of people, including children.
I doubt it does given we live in different countries. Also, won't somebody think about the children (who almost
never die of covid...) eyeroll.gif.
Just so you're clear, I really feel zero guilt about my choice to avid their sh1tty vaccine like the (actual) plague
and no amount of your feminine shaming talk will convince me of anything, other than what a bell end you are.
 

EyeBRollin

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I doubt it does given we live in different countries. Also, won't somebody think about the children (who almost
never die of covid...) eyeroll.gif.
Just so you're clear, I really feel zero guilt about my choice to avid their sh1tty vaccine like the (actual) plague
and no amount of your feminine shaming talk will convince me of anything, other than what a bell end you are.
Darwinism will prevail.
 

HaleyBaron

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I speak in empirical terms. Data, facts, and statistics. All you’ve put forth are conspiracy theories. Those of us here on planet earth have witnessed COVID-19.
You speak in nerd-who-gets-beat-up-in-school terms.

[pushes up glasses] "ACKTUALLY, THE DATA SAYS....!"

Me: "The data says my **** is bigger than yours. Btw, that girl you been secretly crushing on sucked me off hard last night and swallowed. But keep following your books and not living life, you might **** a used 30 year old with five kids one day. And she might let you sleep next to her."
 

Morpheus

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That's interesting to me since the area where i live - considered the richest, most educated part of the country - is also the area with the most vaccinated people, whereas the poorer areas show the exact opposite and it's not even close.
I think that anti-vaxxers tend to eagerly show a (any) doctor who shares their worldview to give their arguments more credibility. Higher education seem to correlate with more vaccinations and these are not the people who "conform easily", rather the opposite. They're educated, rich and successful and not because they're followers. They think for themselves and always choose options with probability on their side. Success is not a coincidence.
This seems to be the study or survey, that I'd heard about (not that I'd looked at it):

Researchers Identify Groups Hesitant about COVID-19 Vaccine [cmu.edu]

Mejia and King analyzed the data by race, education, US region and
Trump support in the 2020 election.

The largest decrease in hesitancy between January and May by education
group was in those with a high school education or less. Hesitancy
held constant in the most educated group (those with a PhD); by May
PhD’s were the most hesitant group.
I can't say that I'm really impressed by it. Perhaps they are right but PhDs are an odd group, which is considerably narrower than the tertiary educated, so I don't know that one can read too much into it. I find the hesitancy amongst medical professionals much more interesting, presumably because they are at the interface of both the response to covid and the medical industrial complex (eg. big pharma).

The researchers themselves don't seem to understand the vaccines:

“I remain concerned about reaching the most hesitant subgroup of
Americans,” said Mejia. “The only way to end this pandemic for real is
to get enough people vaccinated that we can reduce the speed of new
variants spreading.”
 

Morpheus

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If you simply paste the link, it will preview in your post (but don't embed the link in text as you've done). I tested it with one of yours and it previewed per usual.
Thankyou Sam for this. I didn't get around to thanking you earlier because I had to address other very pressing matters in very short
order at the time.

In particular, I had to choose between which poison (vaccine) I was going to have to take, if I was going to be forced to do so by a
vaccine mandate, and, subsequently, manage a change of place of employment, when this emerged as the most straight forward way to avoid this mandate. Unfortunately, like many parts of the world currently, Australia has become increasingly overrun by both medical tyranny and nihilism. God bless America, particularly your independent physicans, who have held out a beacon of hope for the rest of the world.

For the 'medical nihilism,' alas characterising much of the western world, see:

 

BillyPilgrim

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This seems to be the study or survey, that I'd heard about (not that I'd looked at it):

Researchers Identify Groups Hesitant about COVID-19 Vaccine [cmu.edu]



I can't say that I'm really impressed by it. Perhaps they are right but PhDs are an odd group, which is considerably narrower than the tertiary educated, so I don't know that one can read too much into it. I find the hesitancy amongst medical professionals much more interesting, presumably because they are at the interface of both the response to covid and the medical industrial complex (eg. big pharma).

The researchers themselves don't seem to understand the vaccines:
I think the PhD thing is legit. While they are a narrow group in the survey, there were over 5 million respondents.

People with high school educations don't understand advanced concepts easily and tend rely on common sense and instinct, people with bachelor's understand advanced concepts but typically aren't smart enough to see if they're bullsh1t or not, while people with doctorates both understand advanced concepts and see though them if they are bullsh1t.

So what you have in terms of vax hesitancy (and the same thing can be loosely said for Trump supporters) is a coalition between the low-educated common sensors and the high-educated bullsh1t detectors, with the somewhat-educated people who are in the middle belonging to the other side. And a big source of the somewhat-educated group's cohesion is a common disdain of the low-education group for ego purposes, while being blind to the higher-educated group above them.

I found some interesting comments in the source publication reflecting this. Naturally there are a bunch of reflexive and watery dismissals of the data that claim the survey respondents are lying about having PhD's, which may be true to an extent, but the dismissals generally don't attempt to consider why this (vax hesitancy by PhD's) may be true. Reflexive, rather than reflective, reactions for the most part.




"The PhD finding is not surprising. Given how most PhDs live their lives the difference in getting the vaccine vs not getting it may be viewed as negligible. That pro vaccine "arguments" broadly fall into one of three logical fallacies there is reasonable skepticism as to the motivation behind them. The three basic fallacies used are: appeals to authority, appeals to sentiment and ad hominem attacks.

Additionally, those with PhDs are hopefully trained to not be fooled by logical fallacies and those that have no university "education" have not been brain washed to mindlessly find them compelling (at least that's what 10 years enlisted in the military showed me).

Those with PhDs in the sciences are more likely to understand that science is a process and cannot "say" anything and is only "followed" by fools. This is similar to David Hume's idea that "you cannot derive an ought from an is". How the world operates tells us nothing about what we ought to do in any situation including whether any particular individual "ought" to get vaccinated, or wear a mask.

Those with PhDs in non STEM related fields are in my opinion, as one with a PhD in the physical sciences, much more likely to see science as a social instrument and probably support vaccine promotion and even coercion. Unfortunately, too many people, in general, ignorantly see science as an instrument with which they can bludgeon their political adversaries. This is willful ignorance that results in people being treated as means towards an end and not as thinking people with their own ends in mind.

I not only have a PhD, but I left Academia and have worked as a Registered Nurse for over 15 years. As to whether I personally believe in vaccines is of no importance because the disagreement is actually not over vaccines, or masks, but over the millenia old tension between individual autonomy and the collective "good". I fall squarely on the side of individual autonomy and against arguing by logical fallacies regardless of any view on whether I ought to get a vaccine. That I, on occasion, actually take care of COVID positive ICU patients is not a factor most people need to consider."



"Well i would say when you have low education you have more instinct and self preservation, you know when someone is trying to invade your territory and restrain your liberties and impose things on you. While when you get education, you have to get into the norm, the less you stand out, the best you are to succeed. You have to learn to agree with the consensus. But when you do a PhD you are more aware of how "science" works, that it is very "humane" corruption and high stakes may make people rush tjings. You also known how the consensus is made. You must also be more prone to contradict the consensus and make discoveries that may go against your expectations."


"I mean its pretty straight forward - A) They are the group which should be least likely to fall for the propaganda B) Should be the group most likely to know about repurposed drugs to help avoid the vaccine. C) Knows the risk by covid is very low and if you already had it then you shouldn't get the vaccine, since it provide only risk and no reward then."
 
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