Boundaries and women with guy friends, what's the deal?

[AJ84]

So I originally thought about posting this on a forum that has a better balance of men and women rather than mostly men. I will do that as well just to see what the women say. I have researched this a lot recently and have found a lot of threads and comments all over the web where people are split on this. Half say men and women can be friends (including men even...) and others say they cannot, giving the examples of multiple friends they had that got divorced because their spouse fell for a friend or was sleeping with a friend...

A buddy of mine has a girl he is trying to bang by buying her stuff to the tune of 20K PLUS in 6 months....and she has a boyfriend who is a bartender. My buddy is overweight...She told her bf that she was going to hang out with him even if he wasn't ok with it and he gave his OK just to save face apparently according to her. She hasn't touched his **** but he sticks his fingers in her a little bit here and there with her clothes on and they occasionally make out. That's the male "friend" even as a beta orbiter...

First of all, your friend needs a reality slap. He is totally being used by her and what’s worse, he’s letting it happen. If you have to pay for a girls affection, you’re just a walking atm to her and probably one of many she is rolling. You mean nothing to her.

Secondly, i don’t think a woman should give up male friends that she had before meeting a guy BUT she should have some respect and not hang out with them on her own without including the boyfriend. That’s just my opinion. Why not just introduce the boyfriend to her male friends and open the social circle? It’s disrespectful to even put a boyfriend in a position where he has to say he’s not comfortable or pretend he is, she should just assume that it’s not kosher to hang with the buds without including him.

Now, if she invites him to hang with her male friends and wants to include him and he doesn’t want to, I think it would be petty on his end to not want her to go. I mean if she is inviting him to go with her and all.

For plates, they don’t owe the guy anything, he’s not a boyfriend and he’s not invested in a relationship with her so that’s totally different.

In your case, honestly these girls you are playing really don’t owe you anything and I know you know that. I mean you are cheating on your live in gf them lol. Like come on now. Do as I say don’t do as I do?

 

[AJ84]

Some girls do it by their own choice. My loooong time gf had a husband that cheated on her repeatedly. She too then had an affair then got pregnant and had an abortion at the end of the marriage, like last year of it or something...She is VERY submissive and agreed to my boundaries and has NEVER been an issue. If she is going to her nephews birthday party without me and I tell her the pants she is wearing are inappropriate (waaay too sexy) she goes and changes them without another word said. No argument ever. But I think she is very submissive and respects boundaries due to her past....

The others said they would but always defaulted back to the same behavior. My rule moving forward is depending on how bad, if they much up once or twice and cause problems and don't listen, walk. It's hard to do but YOU MUST COME WITH AN ABUNDANCE MINDSET!!!!

One survey I read said that 70+% of men would rather be alone than to be disrespected. Be that guy even if you don't have other options. I had one at home, another one for a year that as soon as it ended I picked up DAYS later and banged, turned into a gf but it ended yesterday by my choice because she first accepted the boundaries then minutes later said no, controlling, possessive, etc. She considered it domestic abuse that I told her I'm not cool with her going out to bars when in a relationship with me so she could either have bars or me. I don't think she would have done anything BUT it's disrespectful and you shouldn't put your self in temptation. EVERYWHERE WE WENT SHE GOT HIT ON. GAS STATIONS, EVERYWHEREEEEEEEE...AND WOMEN WILL LIE, CHEAT AND STEAL IF THE GUY IS HOT ENOUGH, RICH ENOUGH OR HAS ENOUGH GAME. THEY WILL RATIONALIZE "OH WELL WE HAVEN'T BEEN TOGETHER THAT LONG SO WHY NOT, PLUS HE WILL JUST CLING TO ME AND STAY WITH ME EVEN IF HE DOES FIND OUT.

YOU MUST BE DOMINANT AND STRONG. DO NOT CAVE BROTHER!!!! IT'S NOT JUST WHETHER A GIRL IS HOT. **** THOSE AND TOSS THEM IF THEY ARE NOT SUBMISSIVE. IF THE GIRL IS HOT AND SUBMISSIVE AND TAKES CARE OF YOU, THEN SHE IS GF MATERIAL AND NEVER EVER GET MARRIED. YOU ARE AUTOMATIC BETA PROVIDER. I HEAR THE STORIES FROM MY COLLEAGUES EVERY SINGLE DAY. THEY ARE THE BETA ORBITERS WHILE THEIR WIVES GOES OUT AND DOES DRUGS AND DOESN'T COME HOME ALL WEEKEND....MEN ARE EITHER LOVERS OR PROVIDERS. HUSBANDS ARE PROVIDERS. THE LOVER IS THE GUY SHE BANGS AT A CLUB OR BAR OR AT WORK...PURE ATTRACTION, NOT PROVIDER...

And yes, I cheated. I wasn't always like this. But I was forced to by my environment after dealing with so many shady women. And at the end of the day, alpha males cheat....beta's stay at home like little puppies then find out their wife, gf, etc. was getting passed around at parties for threesomes with his friends while he stayed home and watched the kids or worked to provide for her.

Omg! Forced to by your environment! I’m sorry I can even right now lol. Do you know how many times guys here lament about women taking no accountability for their bad behaviour and here you are, a self proclaimed alpha male, doing the exact same thing that men criticize women for.

I’m sorry but this is exactly why the mainstream thinks the red pill is a f**king joke.

 

[jnMissouri]

First of all, your friend needs a reality slap. He is totally being used by her and what’s worse, he’s letting it happen. If you have to pay for a girls affection, you’re just a walking atm to her and probably one of many she is rolling. You mean nothing to her.

Secondly, i don’t think a woman should give up male friends that she had before meeting a guy BUT she should have some respect and not hang out with them on her own without including the boyfriend. That’s just my opinion. Why not just introduce the boyfriend to her male friends and open the social circle? It’s disrespectful to even put a boyfriend in a position where he has to say he’s not comfortable or pretend he is, she should just assume that it’s not kosher to hang with the buds without including him.

Now, if she invites him to hang with her male friends and wants to include him and he doesn’t want to, I think it would be petty on his end to not want her to go. I mean if she is inviting him to go with her and all.

For plates, they don’t owe the guy anything, he’s not a boyfriend and he’s not invested in a relationship with her so that’s totally different.

In your case, honestly these girls you are playing really don’t owe you anything and I know you know that. I mean you are cheating on your live in gf them lol. Like come on now. Do as I say don’t do as I do?

I could see myself agreeing with your first paragraph, you are a female if I remember correctly. I can to an extent see your view on the second, but if the relationship comes first (not dating, relationships, the three I'm talking about were relationships). Yes, for plates they don't owe a guy anything, you are not a couple....obviously...

In my case the girls KNEW I had someone else from the beginning. You don't have to be the worlds greatest detective to figure out that I never hang out more than a couple hours, sex in bathrooms, cars, parks and hotels and never talk on the phone after work and never hang out on the weekends. The girl who I was in a relationship with for a year told me she knew from the beginning. She kept pushing so I confessed after a few months because she told me she didn't care, she knew anyways and wasn't going to leave, it was important for her that I tell her, she didn't care what I did in a relationship as long as I didn't lie. SO I told her. She stayed. She even tested me the first month we were dating, asking me if I could get away for a night...I told her I would see what I could do. She knew...

She even told me she knew the entire time. She CHOSE to still become my gf after the fact. The other one that ended yesterday, she knew too. My girl at home also knows, she keeps telling me she knows I'm banging others. BUT, I will say, after the last two, I think I'm done. Either that or I need to realize that I've spotted a pattern of crazy women and the signs, the last two were IDENTICAL IN TATTOOS, HAIR, BEHAVIOR, EASY TO LAY, ETC. IMPULSIVE, YOU NAME IT. THEY HID THEIR CRAZY WELL THE FIRST 3 MONTHS THEN BAM!! SLOWLY INTRODUCED IT. THE YEAR LONG ONE WAS AN EX METH COOK AND DEALER FOR A YEAR. THE KIDS FATHER WAS A 6 TIME FELON AND NOT IN THEIR LIVES, NO CHILD SUPPORT. SHE WAS DIVORCED FOUR TIMES. LOST CUSTODY OF KIDS. I SLOWLY LEARNED THIS THROUGH THE RELATIONSHIP. SHE LEFT HER EX WHO CHEATED ON HER, HOOKED UP WITH A GUY FRIEND THAT SHE MET WHEN PREVIOUSLY MARRIED LONG AGO, MOVED IN, THEN LEFT HIM TO GO BACK TO HER EX. THEN LEFT THE EX AFTER TWO WEEKS AND TRIED TO GO BACK TO THE OTHER GUY BUT HE WOULDN'T EVEN BE FRIENDS WITH HER ANYMORE...SHE EVENTUALLY WENT BACK TO THE EX, GOT MARRIED, THEN LEFT 10 MORE TIMES. THE GIRL WAS IMPULSIVE AND UNSTABLE. COULDN'T HOLD A JOB FOR MORE THAN A FEW WEEKS HER SISTER TOLD ME. A COLLEAGUE TOLD ME HIS WIFE HAS THE SAME BEHAVIOR, SAID IT'S BORDERLINE PERSONALITY DISORDER. LOOKED IT UP. LITERALLY EVERY SINGLE SIGN AND SYMPTOM WAS THERE LIKE A GIANT BILLBOARD. I DUMPED HER IN THE END. EVERY TWO WEEKS IT WAS NEW DRAMA. I LEARNED TO RECOGNIZE THE SIGNS NOW....

AND MY LIFE IN IS NO ANGEL. SHE CHEATED ON HER HUSBAND AND GOT PREGNANT. A TIGER DOESN'T CHANGE IT'S STRIPES MY DAD SAYS...AND I'VE ASKED HER TO LEAVE FOR YEARS, SHE REFUSES...SO SHE ACCEPTS WHAT I DO, HAS ACCESS TO MY STUFF, BUT REFUSES TO LOOK ANYMORE (DID BEFORE I STRAYED). SHE KNOWS I DON'T DELETE THINGS AND SHE DOESN'T WANT TO KNOW....BUT YES I'M GOING TO TREAT HER BETTER.

 

[jnMissouri]

Omg! Forced to by your environment! I’m sorry I can even right now lol. Do you know how many times guys here lament about women taking no accountability for their bad behaviour and here you are, a self proclaimed alpha male, doing the exact same thing that men criticize women for.

I’m sorry but this is exactly why the mainstream thinks the red pill is a f**king joke.

One of the recent girls told me her ex was cheated on by all his past gf's so he cheated on her. She agreed that he was a product of his environment. Most of us are. You eventually realize that women cheat even if just once, if the guy is hot enough, they have chemistry, rich enough. You've never cheated? BE HONEST....

 

[jnMissouri]

And yes, I gave my friend a reality slap dozens of times, he won't listen. I outright told him he is being used and that he is a beta. He was a beta to his wife, out of his league, didn't work, he paid the bills. She was cheating on him for YEARS then left him for one....and now he is trying to buy another womans affection. One that at 30 has slept with over 300 men....botox, boob jobs, you name it. And although they have not slept together, she is cheating with him. The guy is totally beta, so is her BF. He was ok with her hanging out with him. Clueless....

 

[Robert28]

So I originally thought about posting this on a forum that has a better balance of men and women rather than mostly men. I will do that as well just to see what the women say. I have researched this a lot recently and have found a lot of threads and comments all over the web where people are split on this. Half say men and women can be friends (including men even...) and others say they cannot, giving the examples of multiple friends they had that got divorced because their spouse fell for a friend or was sleeping with a friend...

A buddy of mine has a girl he is trying to bang by buying her stuff to the tune of 20K PLUS in 6 months....and she has a boyfriend who is a bartender. My buddy is overweight...She told her bf that she was going to hang out with him even if he wasn't ok with it and he gave his OK just to save face apparently according to her. She hasn't touched his **** but he sticks his fingers in her a little bit here and there with her clothes on and they occasionally make out. That's the male "friend" even as a beta orbiter...

20k for a finger bang and some kissing every now and then? Good God this country is shot out. No wonder the gays are taking off lately.

 

[Robert28]

And yes, I gave my friend a reality slap dozens of times, he won't listen. I outright told him he is being used and that he is a beta. He was a beta to his wife, out of his league, didn't work, he paid the bills. She was cheating on him for YEARS then left him for one....and now he is trying to buy another womans affection. One that at 30 has slept with over 300 men....botox, boob jobs, you name it. And although they have not slept together, she is cheating with him. The guy is totally beta, so is her BF. He was ok with her hanging out with him. Clueless....

If she’s 30 and dating a bartender she’s got more issues than Carter had liver pills.

 

[ubercat]

No Biggie. Denote to plate and get busy. If it's early dating she can do what/who she likes and so can u. A gf should have girl or couple friends. No exceptions.

 

[AJ84]

One of the recent girls told me her ex was cheated on by all his past gf's so he cheated on her. She agreed that he was a product of his environment. Most of us are. You eventually realize that women cheat even if just once, if the guy is hot enough, they have chemistry, rich enough. You've never cheated? BE HONEST....

Yes, and I make no excuses for it. The environment, or past relationship experiences didn’t make me do it. I was just dumb and selfish and I regretted it. Also had it happen to me in a relationship that followed so felt I got my just desserts there, karma and all.

Learned from it, and choose to hold myself to a higher standard for my own self respect.
Yeah sure I could of just cheated again because I got cheated on. But why do something crappy because someone did the same thing to you. That’s a toxic circle right there don’t you think? If we all acted on that principle no one would have any real connections, or friends for that matter lol.

Sounds like you are picking girls who have lower standards for guys and also for their own behaviour.

And dollars to donuts if your live in gf knows and is sticking around, chances are, someone is sticking around her too if you catch my drift. No girl is that submissive and loyal when she knows the guy is cheating, don’t be naive .

 

[AJ84]

I could see myself agreeing with your first paragraph, you are a female if I remember correctly. I can to an extent see your view on the second, but if the relationship comes first (not dating, relationships, the three I'm talking about were relationships). Yes, for plates they don't owe a guy anything, you are not a couple....obviously...

In my case the girls KNEW I had someone else from the beginning. You don't have to be the worlds greatest detective to figure out that I never hang out more than a couple hours, sex in bathrooms, cars, parks and hotels and never talk on the phone after work and never hang out on the weekends. The girl who I was in a relationship with for a year told me she knew from the beginning. She kept pushing so I confessed after a few months because she told me she didn't care, she knew anyways and wasn't going to leave, it was important for her that I tell her, she didn't care what I did in a relationship as long as I didn't lie. SO I told her. She stayed. She even tested me the first month we were dating, asking me if I could get away for a night...I told her I would see what I could do. She knew...

She even told me she knew the entire time. She CHOSE to still become my gf after the fact. The other one that ended yesterday, she knew too. My girl at home also knows, she keeps telling me she knows I'm banging others. BUT, I will say, after the last two, I think I'm done. Either that or I need to realize that I've spotted a pattern of crazy women and the signs, the last two were IDENTICAL IN TATTOOS, HAIR, BEHAVIOR, EASY TO LAY, ETC. IMPULSIVE, YOU NAME IT. THEY HID THEIR CRAZY WELL THE FIRST 3 MONTHS THEN BAM!! SLOWLY INTRODUCED IT. THE YEAR LONG ONE WAS AN EX METH COOK AND DEALER FOR A YEAR. THE KIDS FATHER WAS A 6 TIME FELON AND NOT IN THEIR LIVES, NO CHILD SUPPORT. SHE WAS DIVORCED FOUR TIMES. LOST CUSTODY OF KIDS. I SLOWLY LEARNED THIS THROUGH THE RELATIONSHIP. SHE LEFT HER EX WHO CHEATED ON HER, HOOKED UP WITH A GUY FRIEND THAT SHE MET WHEN PREVIOUSLY MARRIED LONG AGO, MOVED IN, THEN LEFT HIM TO GO BACK TO HER EX. THEN LEFT THE EX AFTER TWO WEEKS AND TRIED TO GO BACK TO THE OTHER GUY BUT HE WOULDN'T EVEN BE FRIENDS WITH HER ANYMORE...SHE EVENTUALLY WENT BACK TO THE EX, GOT MARRIED, THEN LEFT 10 MORE TIMES. THE GIRL WAS IMPULSIVE AND UNSTABLE. COULDN'T HOLD A JOB FOR MORE THAN A FEW WEEKS HER SISTER TOLD ME. A COLLEAGUE TOLD ME HIS WIFE HAS THE SAME BEHAVIOR, SAID IT'S BORDERLINE PERSONALITY DISORDER. LOOKED IT UP. LITERALLY EVERY SINGLE SIGN AND SYMPTOM WAS THERE LIKE A GIANT BILLBOARD. I DUMPED HER IN THE END. EVERY TWO WEEKS IT WAS NEW DRAMA. I LEARNED TO RECOGNIZE THE SIGNS NOW....

AND MY LIFE IN IS NO ANGEL. SHE CHEATED ON HER HUSBAND AND GOT PREGNANT. A TIGER DOESN'T CHANGE IT'S STRIPES MY DAD SAYS...AND I'VE ASKED HER TO LEAVE FOR YEARS, SHE REFUSES...SO SHE ACCEPTS WHAT I DO, HAS ACCESS TO MY STUFF, BUT REFUSES TO LOOK ANYMORE (DID BEFORE I STRAYED). SHE KNOWS I DON'T DELETE THINGS AND SHE DOESN'T WANT TO KNOW....BUT YES I'M GOING TO TREAT HER BETTER.

Your live in gf won’t leave even though you asked her to? Where is her self respect that is messed up.

I think you need a harm reduction strategy transitioning to detox from this web you are stuck in. There are normal girls out there lol.

 

[Epic Days]

So I originally thought about posting this on a forum that has a better balance of men and women rather than mostly men. I will do that as well just to see what the women say.

Oh yeah. Good idea. Go for it. Hahaha

 

[Spaz]

There's no such thing as male and female platonic friendship.

Underneath it all is always a sexual lust.

 

[jnMissouri]

Yes, and I make no excuses for it. The environment, or past relationship experiences didn’t make me do it. I was just dumb and selfish and I regretted it. Also had it happen to me in a relationship that followed so felt I got my just desserts there, karma and all.

Learned from it, and choose to hold myself to a higher standard for my own self respect.
Yeah sure I could of just cheated again because I got cheated on. But why do something crappy because someone did the same thing to you. That’s a toxic circle right there don’t you think? If we all acted on that principle no one would have any real connections, or friends for that matter lol.

Sounds like you are picking girls who have lower standards for guys and also for their own behaviour.

And dollars to donuts if your live in gf knows and is sticking around, chances are, someone is sticking around her too if you catch my drift. No girl is that submissive and loyal when she knows the guy is cheating, don’t be naive .

Well I appreciate the honesty. You're real. At least in this moment.

Yes, we have a choice, but our experiences and environments are influences. You're more likely to go to go to Harvard in a family that is rich and supports that than one where your mother cooked,smoked and dealt meth for 8 years, in and out of jail, with a 6 time felon dad and two of the men your mother brought into your life raped you for YEARS...MY EX that ended 5 weeks ago....her DAUGHTER...she has no chance in life whether you realize it or not....

 

[jnMissouri]

20k for a finger bang and some kissing every now and then? Good God this country is shot out. No wonder the gays are taking off lately.

Yup. Beta orbiter. I had girls who's Male friends drove them to give me a bj in my car...

Girls who, the last two, one who drove 8 days round trip to screw me for a week though we were a couple and she lived here the first 3 months. The other drove 12 hours round trip to screw me in bathrooms, hotels, conference rooms at work ( weekends, we broke one table and put it back together) and parks....

I paid for a burger or gas here and there and so did they....

 

[jnMissouri]

20k for a finger bang and some kissing every now and then? Good God this country is shot out. No wonder the gays are taking off lately.

Oh, he bought her a 20k engagement ring from Tiffany's too, I was there. Told him not to. She rejected him and he returned it. He loves her lol.

 

[Jager]

There's no such thing as male and female platonic friendship.

Underneath it all is always a sexual lust.

Agreed. Why else would the two genders even exist? There was no other reason. Friendship with women is a pipe dream.

 

[jnMissouri]

To balance out the conversation, at what point is it just overbearing or out of line jealousy? I've never been jealous without cause. GF's of mine go out with their gf's but it's all girls for DINNER, not to a club or a bar...and I've met the girls they go out with.

I think forcing a girl to look down and never speak is an example of too much and out of line. But I think a girl who makes eye contact and is friendly with other men in front of you especially when they hit on her or express interest by lingering too long (waiters) and focusing too much on her and not me, yeah that's out of line and will not be tolerated. If she does that in front of you I can only imagine what she does when you're not there.

The reason I'm asking is because these two hoes tried to make it out like it was OK to act like that and we argued for months or even a year and I walked several times, then for good when they kept defaulting to that after time. I'm just trying to make sure I'm NOT actually being jealous, controlling or possessive. I figured that this was a manipulation tactic of women so they can keep their beta orbiters around either to ****, for validation or backup options. Super glad I didn't cave and stood my ground.

Follow up to this. We argued over hypothetical situations not actual ones though I had actual ones in the past...they brought up the hypotheticals
..

 

[John9999]

It seems SOOOOOO many women, especially women who have a lot of guy or nothing but guy friends claim you are controlling when you say you have boundaries, not hanging out with other men under the guise that "he's just a friend". I'm sure in some cases they just are, but from my perspective they are just beta orbiters waiting for a moment of weakness, an argument where she comes spilling the beans and he comforts her and she's like "you understand me".

The girls will say that I'm controlling and crazy because I think it's inappropriate for a girl in a relationship to go to bars or hang out with male friends. I'm not so naive and don't believe their little stories. I'm also not so naive to think that you can be in a relationship and do whatever you want. Is this some kind of attempt by the girls to **** test or see if you will be their little at home provider while they have a good time?

I've had relationships with normal/stable women where because of their past/maturity they agreed to boundaries that went both ways, agreed that men and women couldn't be friends (except MAYBE when gay).

No you’re not being controlling. Ask those women how they would feel if you had a bunch of women friends that you hung out with someone and got drinks and stuff.

I had just drop dead gorgeous girlfriend about eight years ago. She had literally hundreds of guys orbiting around her on Facebook. I put my foot down. She didn’t like that. She is the type of girl that changes her profile picture every day to get compliments from guys. I tried to explain to her that everyone of them wanted her for sex but of course she didn’t get that.

This is literally the entire reason that I broke up with her.

 

[jnMissouri]

No you’re not being controlling. Ask those women how they would feel if you had a bunch of women friends that you hung out with someone and got drinks and stuff.

I had just drop dead gorgeous girlfriend about eight years ago. She had literally hundreds of guys orbiting around her on Facebook. I put my foot down. She didn’t like that. She is the type of girl that changes her profile picture every day to get compliments from guys. I tried to explain to her that everyone of them wanted her for sex but of course she didn’t get that.

This is literally the entire reason that I broke up with her.

You did the right thing brother, saved yourself from inevitable heartache...One of my most recent exes is back on facebook and already has tons of guys from all over the country on there...

Oh, and by the way, she knew they wanted to have sex with her, they were her validation, back up options, toys to play with. She played dumb. Women know this stuff, or when a guy has sexual energy even as a friend. YOU DID THE RIGHT THING. KNOW THAT...

 

[Medina]

Imagine your grandma hanging out with 10+ dudes while grandpa is at home. It's shockingly bad

Men have to wake up. Girls are raised to be entitled, total freedom + no consequences

Forcing us into a position of "chump". Not good is it fellas

It's time to fight back

1) Acquire your own female orbiters
2) Eliminate oneitis completely
3) Lower your opinion of them to rock bottom
4) Always focus on yourself and your goals
5) Don't ever forgive them for thinking the way they did

I turned a feminist into a housewife. When we met it was "lol no way will I be like that"

She's currently washing the dishes as we speak