Boundaries and women with guy friends, what's the deal?

[jnMissouri]

It seems SOOOOOO many women, especially women who have a lot of guy or nothing but guy friends claim you are controlling when you say you have boundaries, not hanging out with other men under the guise that "he's just a friend". I'm sure in some cases they just are, but from my perspective they are just beta orbiters waiting for a moment of weakness, an argument where she comes spilling the beans and he comforts her and she's like "you understand me".

The girls will say that I'm controlling and crazy because I think it's inappropriate for a girl in a relationship to go to bars or hang out with male friends. I'm not so naive and don't believe their little stories. I'm also not so naive to think that you can be in a relationship and do whatever you want. Is this some kind of attempt by the girls to **** test or see if you will be their little at home provider while they have a good time?

I've had relationships with normal/stable women where because of their past/maturity they agreed to boundaries that went both ways, agreed that men and women couldn't be friends (except MAYBE when gay).

 

[Kotaix]

Well is there a declared monogamous relationship in play here? Women will sh!t test your resolve in your principles and judge you based on your actions. If you're consistent and will put your principles over her then I don't see a problem. She can call you controlling, but that's just her flapping her lips and making noise. If she abides by the boundaries then she's saying by her actions that she wants to be with you. Women usually WANT their man to be in control so they don't have to be, but they have to trust that your control is rational and not emotional (aka, not like theirs), hence the sh!t testing.

 

[StillSearching]

Women who seek attention, will get it.
My boundaries are hard and firm.
Guys and girls cannot be friends. Someone on one side or the other, is wanting to sex up the other.
Only a Beta Blue Piller believes that nonsense.

 

[jnMissouri]

Well is there a declared monogamous relationship in play here? Women will sh!t test your resolve in your principles and judge you based on your actions. If you're consistent and will put your principles over her then I don't see a problem. She can call you controlling, but that's just her flapping her lips and making noise. If she abides by the boundaries then she's saying by her actions that she wants to be with you. Women usually WANT their man to be in control so they don't have to be, but they have to trust that your control is rational and not emotional (aka, not like theirs), hence the sh!t testing.

Yes, in both the three cases I'm thinking of from my own past relationships, some of them yeeeeaaaars and others months. One relationship we were on the same page entirely. I also find it funny that one of my most recent relationships she actually told me she loved the controlling hussey things I do (she was calm, we were talking about why we loved each other). She would agree to boundaries then try to go back sometimes and we'd fight and she'd call me controlling. I didn't give in. We'd break up, get back together and repeat the cycle. This one specifically had a problem with authority her sister told me, same reason she couldn't hold down a job for more than a few weeks...

I'm just thinking, men and women cannot be friends and if a girl doesn't agree with that and isn't submissive or has a ton of large number of male friends that are more important to her than her man, then it's just not worth it.

 

[jnMissouri]

Women who seek attention, will get it.
My boundaries are hard and firm.
Guys and girls cannot be friends. Someone on one side or the other, is wanting to sex up the other.
Only a Beta Blue Piller believes that nonsense.

Exactly!!! I think women trying to claim they can have guy friends are lying hoes. Even if they don't sleep with them during the relationship they are their back up options.

 

[Alvafe]

Yes, in both the three cases I'm thinking of from my own past relationships, some of them yeeeeaaaars and others months. One relationship we were on the same page entirely. I also find it funny that one of my most recent relationships she actually told me she loved the controlling hussey things I do (she was calm, we were talking about why we loved each other). She would agree to boundaries then try to go back sometimes and we'd fight and she'd call me controlling. I didn't give in. We'd break up, get back together and repeat the cycle. This one specifically had a problem with authority her sister told me, same reason she couldn't hold down a job for more than a few weeks...

I'm just thinking, men and women cannot be friends and if a girl doesn't agree with that and isn't submissive or has a ton of large number of male friends that are more important to her than her man, then it's just not worth it.

just ask her if she would like you going out with your other girlfriends to bars and such, chances are she will not like,

or better yet, don't waste time with girls who do this, they know very well its not nice or ok doing so, and if you need to explain the basic of expected in a LTR better find a smater woman

 

[jnMissouri]

just ask her if she would like you going out with your other girlfriends to bars and such, chances are she will not like,

or better yet, don't waste time with girls who do this, they know very well its not nice or ok doing so, and if you need to explain the basic of expected in a LTR better find a smater woman

Yeah I did this with one, she still didn't get it. The other one would say she wouldn't but then change to I hardly ever go and I don't go alone...I go with my girlfriends. My Dr. recently told me he is going to see a female friend in Europe, staying with her. I asked him if he was single, he said he just got married....I asked him how his wife feels about it, he said she isn't a fan of it but but but...

I wonder how he would like it if his wife went and stayed with another man on another continent...separate rooms or not, it. is. weiiiiird....

As far as smarter women, they are all already taken. And note every single one of these girls I've had this issue with was an abject loser at life. Low income if they worked at all, leeching off family, uneducated and just plain retarded. Hot but dumb as ****.

 

[Robert28]

Think of it this way. Why would she willingly give up MULTIPLE orbiters that would do ANYTHING for her at the drop of a hat over one single guy (you)? Orbiters are EXTREMELY important to women, that’s why they’re constantly selling the bs of “sure men and women can be just friends”. It’s also why they shame men that don’t believe in that type of friendship or get tired of it and walk away.

 

[Medina]

I've been in this situation. There really isn't a lot you can do about it

The more you press her, the more she will resist

You can either play it cool and hope a "mistake" doesn't happen

Or you can walk

Voicing your opinion only makes you look needy in her eyes

 

[lamath]

I dont think being direct about her guy friend is gonna do anything good.


I just do nothing, usualy they lose them over a few month. I dont see many men as a threat to **** my women i like to think.most are below me, and if i have a i doubt that she is doing something she should not be doing, idgaf NEXT got lots of choice, so i see it as an opportunity.

 

[Toddz]

If she's the tomboy type that has interests in mostly male activities I wouldn't see it as an issue if you're a secure person. The type of woman that is into fishing, four wheeling, mountain biking, etc... is going to have a social circle with mostly males in it.

If she's not and simply using these dudes as validation then I wouldn't want anything to do with her.

 

[In2theGame]

Guy "Friends" is a No from me. Hanging out with male friends is not okay and the true intentions of the guy is to fvck whether she knows it or not. If she is putting up a "fight" about this, What's happening is that she wants her cake and eat it to. Attention from all these male "friends" and have her boyfriend/fiance/husband as well. A Woman who truly respects you and knows that it's nothing but potential problems will remove herself from such situations.

The "You're controlling" or "Possessive" etc. is a shaming tactic to have you allow it. You stand firm on the fact that you do not like it. If it's that much of an issue, You simple tell her "I Have no problem you keeping all your guy friends, it's perfectly fine but I'm gone" Period.

 

[AJ84]

Exactly!!! I think women trying to claim they can have guy friends are lying hoes. Even if they don't sleep with them during the relationship they are their back up options.

Back up. Aren’t you ACTIVELY cheating on your LIVE IN girlfriend? That’s a nice high horse you got there lol.

 

[jnMissouri]

Think of it this way. Why would she willingly give up MULTIPLE orbiters that would do ANYTHING for her at the drop of a hat over one single guy (you)? Orbiters are EXTREMELY important to women, that’s why they’re constantly selling the bs of “sure men and women can be just friends”. It’s also why they shame men that don’t believe in that type of friendship or get tired of it and walk away.

Very true. Women spew this BS for their own agenda. These are women to be aware of. EVERY woman I was with that had this belief and resisted boundaries did end up pushing inappropriate and disrespectful. The ones that didn't have an issue with it were usually on the opposite end of this with the guy claiming "she's just my friend". Those girls turned out to be the sane, good ones that took care of their man and I took them for granted... :-(

 

[jnMissouri]

Guy "Friends" is a No from me. Hanging out with male friends is not okay and the true intentions of the guy is to fvck whether she knows it or not. If she is putting up a "fight" about this, What's happening is that she wants her cake and eat it to. Attention from all these male "friends" and have her boyfriend/fiance/husband as well. A Woman who truly respects you and knows that it's nothing but potential problems will remove herself from such situations.

The "You're controlling" or "Possessive" etc. is a shaming tactic to have you allow it. You stand firm on the fact that you do not like it. If it's that much of an issue, You simple tell her "I Have no problem you keeping all your guy friends, it's perfectly fine but I'm gone" Period.

Exactly my take in my OP, but you worded it even better. The "controlling" and "possessive" is BS manipulation technique. Yes, a woman that VALUES you above them will agree to this. And I agree, I was just coming to post this but you already said it: I thought about it and some of the posts above where it was said the more you press her the more she will resist...so you don't even press it. You just say you have a lot of male friends and based on my past experience and being a guy, men and women can't be friends, one or the other and in ALL cases the man will be trying to bang the chic at least slowly over time so I'm breaking up. She will either say she will get rid of them or she will say goodbye. End of story, time to move on, but avoid the heartache AND RECOGNIZE THE CONTROLLING AND POSSESSIVE is a manipulation tactic.

I was just coming here to post this to the group and see if I'm being too "controlling" or if this is exactly what I think it is...in the two recent cases the girls were BOTH nuts as **** and said the exact same things in general, same patterns and when it came to this it was always "controlling or possessive". Not initially but eventually they'd try to get their male friends back...complete utter loser male friends at that...

In one case the guy did appear to legit be a friend, I tested it. He even tried to get us back together and assured me she would never cheat, etc. But it was strange to me the circumstances that raised my red flags and constantly being drawn back to him when he ditched her constantly...

Good to know that I didn't fall for their BS and walked.

 

[jnMissouri]

Fwiw I disagree that men and women can't be friends, sometimes they have common interests. If not, yes it's often a backup orbiter situation.

What a good woman with guy friends will do is push away the guy friend if she develops the feels.

So I originally thought about posting this on a forum that has a better balance of men and women rather than mostly men. I will do that as well just to see what the women say. I have researched this a lot recently and have found a lot of threads and comments all over the web where people are split on this. Half say men and women can be friends (including men even...) and others say they cannot, giving the examples of multiple friends they had that got divorced because their spouse fell for a friend or was sleeping with a friend...

A buddy of mine has a girl he is trying to bang by buying her stuff to the tune of 20K PLUS in 6 months....and she has a boyfriend who is a bartender. My buddy is overweight...She told her bf that she was going to hang out with him even if he wasn't ok with it and he gave his OK just to save face apparently according to her. She hasn't touched his **** but he sticks his fingers in her a little bit here and there with her clothes on and they occasionally make out. That's the male "friend" even as a beta orbiter...

 

[jnMissouri]

To balance out the conversation, at what point is it just overbearing or out of line jealousy? I've never been jealous without cause. GF's of mine go out with their gf's but it's all girls for DINNER, not to a club or a bar...and I've met the girls they go out with.

I think forcing a girl to look down and never speak is an example of too much and out of line. But I think a girl who makes eye contact and is friendly with other men in front of you especially when they hit on her or express interest by lingering too long (waiters) and focusing too much on her and not me, yeah that's out of line and will not be tolerated. If she does that in front of you I can only imagine what she does when you're not there.

The reason I'm asking is because these two hoes tried to make it out like it was OK to act like that and we argued for months or even a year and I walked several times, then for good when they kept defaulting to that after time. I'm just trying to make sure I'm NOT actually being jealous, controlling or possessive. I figured that this was a manipulation tactic of women so they can keep their beta orbiters around either to ****, for validation or backup options. Super glad I didn't cave and stood my ground.

 

[metalwater]

To balance out the conversation, at what point is it just overbearing or out of line jealousy? I've never been jealous without cause. GF's of mine go out with their gf's but it's all girls for DINNER, not to a club or a bar...and I've met the girls they go out with.

I think forcing a girl to look down and never speak is an example of too much and out of line. But I think a girl who makes eye contact and is friendly with other men in front of you especially when they hit on her or express interest by lingering too long (waiters) and focusing too much on her and not me, yeah that's out of line and will not be tolerated. If she does that in front of you I can only imagine what she does when you're not there.

The reason I'm asking is because these two hoes tried to make it out like it was OK to act like that and we argued for months or even a year and I walked several times, then for good when they kept defaulting to that after time. I'm just trying to make sure I'm NOT actually being jealous, controlling or possessive. I figured that this was a manipulation tactic of women so they can keep their beta orbiters around either to ****, for validation or backup options. Super glad I didn't cave and stood my ground.

thanks for the report. it is relevant to me right now.
do you always have to force them to behave, or do some girls do it by there own choice?

 

[jnMissouri]

What about contact with their ex's?? Personally 1) I don't date women with kids, the one recently that had kids lied about it on her profile, and it turned out she lost custody and they lived with her parents or father of the kids in one case (she lost custody separately) but the point is that unless they have kids together there is no reason to have contact. One girl I was in a relationship with for 3 months (well dating part of that) was still married to her ex after 6 YEARS of being separated...I didn't say anything but showed my disapproval non verbally and she went and got him to file for divorce. He kept delaying it...

So with women who have no kids if they are not willing to get rid of their ex's completely that's a red flag. I don't usually date women with kids based on experience from my 20's but the one that I did recently date lied about them and the ex drama became too much. It wasn't even her kid of his, he was her step son that she took with her daughter when she left him...as if to hang on to that ex. She claimed it was to give the kid a better life. He ended up molesting her 10 year old daughter, raping her for 2 years and is on trial now...

 

[jnMissouri]

thanks for the report. it is relevant to me right now.
do you always have to force them to behave, or do some girls do it by there own choice?

Some girls do it by their own choice. My loooong time gf had a husband that cheated on her repeatedly. She too then had an affair then got pregnant and had an abortion at the end of the marriage, like last year of it or something...She is VERY submissive and agreed to my boundaries and has NEVER been an issue. If she is going to her nephews birthday party without me and I tell her the pants she is wearing are inappropriate (waaay too sexy) she goes and changes them without another word said. No argument ever. But I think she is very submissive and respects boundaries due to her past....

The others said they would but always defaulted back to the same behavior. My rule moving forward is depending on how bad, if they much up once or twice and cause problems and don't listen, walk. It's hard to do but YOU MUST COME WITH AN ABUNDANCE MINDSET!!!!

One survey I read said that 70+% of men would rather be alone than to be disrespected. Be that guy even if you don't have other options. I had one at home, another one for a year that as soon as it ended I picked up DAYS later and banged, turned into a gf but it ended yesterday by my choice because she first accepted the boundaries then minutes later said no, controlling, possessive, etc. She considered it domestic abuse that I told her I'm not cool with her going out to bars when in a relationship with me so she could either have bars or me. I don't think she would have done anything BUT it's disrespectful and you shouldn't put your self in temptation. EVERYWHERE WE WENT SHE GOT HIT ON. GAS STATIONS, EVERYWHEREEEEEEEE...AND WOMEN WILL LIE, CHEAT AND STEAL IF THE GUY IS HOT ENOUGH, RICH ENOUGH OR HAS ENOUGH GAME. THEY WILL RATIONALIZE "OH WELL WE HAVEN'T BEEN TOGETHER THAT LONG SO WHY NOT, PLUS HE WILL JUST CLING TO ME AND STAY WITH ME EVEN IF HE DOES FIND OUT.

YOU MUST BE DOMINANT AND STRONG. DO NOT CAVE BROTHER!!!! IT'S NOT JUST WHETHER A GIRL IS HOT. **** THOSE AND TOSS THEM IF THEY ARE NOT SUBMISSIVE. IF THE GIRL IS HOT AND SUBMISSIVE AND TAKES CARE OF YOU, THEN SHE IS GF MATERIAL AND NEVER EVER GET MARRIED. YOU ARE AUTOMATIC BETA PROVIDER. I HEAR THE STORIES FROM MY COLLEAGUES EVERY SINGLE DAY. THEY ARE THE BETA ORBITERS WHILE THEIR WIVES GOES OUT AND DOES DRUGS AND DOESN'T COME HOME ALL WEEKEND....MEN ARE EITHER LOVERS OR PROVIDERS. HUSBANDS ARE PROVIDERS. THE LOVER IS THE GUY SHE BANGS AT A CLUB OR BAR OR AT WORK...PURE ATTRACTION, NOT PROVIDER...

And yes, I cheated. I wasn't always like this. But I was forced to by my environment after dealing with so many shady women. And at the end of the day, alpha males cheat....beta's stay at home like little puppies then find out their wife, gf, etc. was getting passed around at parties for threesomes with his friends while he stayed home and watched the kids or worked to provide for her.