BeExcellent: "Nothing short of marriage is exclusive to be perfectly honest"

[BeExcellent]

I've noticed that the women with the highest self-esteem are the least worried about titles; they know their worth, they've met other high value men & they're realistic about what it takes to land a high value man.

@fastlife I agree with you. I do. Women with high self esteem do know their worth. They are less concerned about titles. But try to get one to have illegitimate children with you out of wedlock and you'll find in 95% of the cases with these women, it will require a ring and a wedding. There are still social circles where children out of wedlock are disgraceful to the family and high self esteem women respect the family and are not going to cause disgrace within their social environs.

I find this whole thread rather interesting. I simply mentioned a very commonly held belief from the female locker room and so many are having a Holy Cow. That would be like women gasping and swooning that men are sometimes only after sex and otherwise may not care about the woman he just was intimate with at all. I mean seriously. Stop the Press.

As for me @Augustus_McCrae I'm not just some AF/BB person. You've insinuated things about me personally that are not true (and I realize that you are simply lumping me in with AWALT). If I wanted a BB guy I've got two multimillionaires who would be more than happy to marry me. So the whole argument for hypergamy is moot, at least with me. I have someone I'm seeing who I deeply respect as a man, and who loves me. Someone who I think might be able to lead me and someone who my own life experience can support and nurture in his own endeavors. I don't have the girlfriend title per say, but his actions tell me on no uncertain terms he cares and things are progressing as we get to know each other better. We haven't discussed exclusivity but I am a believer that as intimacy builds, interest in others naturally falls away. I don't have a marriage agenda anymore as I'm done having children.

Relationships become more complex and more nuanced once one enters into the post children & divorce landscape. That's simply a fact. This is why I prefer to date a man who is already a father. He understands the issues surrounding children, for example, because he already has his own.

This idea that women do not understand anything about men and dating is ridiculous. Absolutely laughable. If that were true then logic would say you guys don't know the first thing about women (how could you...you AREN'T women), and lord knows nobody here is going to accept that premise. I am a woman who dates men. Men are easy to predict and understand in many/most instances if you as a woman understand how men operate. Just as women are easy to understand if you know how women operate. It's not rocket science and its not supposed to be adversarial at all. Men and women are different but complimentary. I love men and adore them. I understand a fair bit about them in a general sense, just as fastlife, Guru, deesade and others understand (and enjoy) women.

I hold the belief that for nuclear families and child rearing marriage is a sacrament worth doing. It can also have the very real benefit of lifelong partner and confidante and so on. I got married for the long haul just like Augustus did, and just like many do. Can you predict how your partner will grow and change? Nope. You can only master yourself in marriage and in life. I still know many MANY very successfully and happily married couples. I do not assume that because my marriage dissolved that therefore there cannot exist any happy marriages. That is false and that is ego talking. I'm happy for my happily married friends. They value and treasure the marriage and the journey they have with one another, their children, and their families. They rejoice in the great times and they cling together in the painful times. It's pretty damn cool.

When I see men going on that no marriages could be happy or some such I know the man speaking is disdaining what he does not have, for to accept that happy marriages exist would be an insult to his ego and also to acknowledge that said man does not have one (that he would otherwise desire - and this makes him feel inadequate in some way.) Happily married men treasure their marriages, their wives, and their families. My client's medical director is such a man, my real estate broker is such a man, one of my property managers is such a man, all my bankers are such men, I could go on and on and on.

Forget marriage for the moment. The success of a relationship of any sort is dependent upon the quality of the two people in the relationship and whether or not the goals, needs, and desires of those two people line up. It's way beyond attraction. You can be attracted to people who are a horrible match for you (and many here have the tales to tell along those lines)...so I really don't get the vitriol at all, besides an ointment for a few egos.

 

[Tenacity]

@fastlife I agree with you. I do. Women with high self esteem do know their worth. They are less concerned about titles. But try to get one to have illegitimate children with you out of wedlock and you'll find in 95% of the cases with these women, it will require a ring and a wedding. There are still social circles where children out of wedlock are disgraceful to the family and high self esteem women respect the family and are not going to cause disgrace within their social environs.

I find this whole thread rather interesting. I simply mentioned a very commonly held belief from the female locker room and so many are having a Holy Cow. That would be like women gasping and swooning that men are sometimes only after sex and otherwise may not care about the woman he just was intimate with at all. I mean seriously. Stop the Press.

As for me @Augustus_McCrae I'm not just some AF/BB person. You've insinuated things about me personally that are not true (and I realize that you are simply lumping me in with AWALT). If I wanted a BB guy I've got two multimillionaires who would be more than happy to marry me. So the whole argument for hypergamy is moot, at least with me. I have someone I'm seeing who I deeply respect as a man, and who loves me. Someone who I think might be able to lead me and someone who my own life experience can support and nurture in his own endeavors. I don't have the girlfriend title per say, but his actions tell me on no uncertain terms he cares and things are progressing as we get to know each other better. We haven't discussed exclusivity but I am a believer that as intimacy builds, interest in others naturally falls away. I don't have a marriage agenda anymore as I'm done having children.

Relationships become more complex and more nuanced once one enters into the post children & divorce landscape. That's simply a fact. This is why I prefer to date a man who is already a father. He understands the issues surrounding children, for example, because he already has his own.

This idea that women do not understand anything about men and dating is ridiculous. Absolutely laughable. If that were true then logic would say you guys don't know the first thing about women (how could you...you AREN'T women), and lord knows nobody here is going to accept that premise. I am a woman who dates men. Men are easy to predict and understand in many/most instances if you as a woman understand how men operate. Just as women are easy to understand if you know how women operate. It's not rocket science and its not supposed to be adversarial at all. Men and women are different but complimentary. I love men and adore them. I understand a fair bit about them in a general sense, just as fastlife, Guru, deesade and others understand (and enjoy) women.

I hold the belief that for nuclear families and child rearing marriage is a sacrament worth doing. It can also have the very real benefit of lifelong partner and confidante and so on. I got married for the long haul just like Augustus did, and just like many do. Can you predict how your partner will grow and change? Nope. You can only master yourself in marriage and in life. I still know many MANY very successfully and happily married couples. I do not assume that because my marriage dissolved that therefore there cannot exist any happy marriages. That is false and that is ego talking. I'm happy for my happily married friends. They value and treasure the marriage and the journey they have with one another, their children, and their families. They rejoice in the great times and they cling together in the painful times. It's pretty damn cool.

When I see men going on that no marriages could be happy or some such I know the man speaking is disdaining what he does not have, for to accept that happy marriages exist would be an insult to his ego and also to acknowledge that said man does not have one (that he would otherwise desire - and this makes him feel inadequate in some way.) Happily married men treasure their marriages, their wives, and their families. My client's medical director is such a man, my real estate broker is such a man, one of my property managers is such a man, all my bankers are such men, I could go on and on and on.

Forget marriage for the moment. The success of a relationship of any sort is dependent upon the quality of the two people in the relationship and whether or not the goals, needs, and desires of those two people line up. It's way beyond attraction. You can be attracted to people who are a horrible match for you (and many here have the tales to tell along those lines)...so I really don't get the vitriol at all, besides an ointment for a few egos.

At the end of the day, folks on this forum can discuss/debate until the cows come home (literally).....but we are all GROWN ADULTS on this forum and as a grown adult, everyone here is going to have to take the information and customize it to their life.

What I think is great about these discussions, is the fact that it puts different viewpoints, sides, and information out there. But what I try to NOT do in these legal relationship debates, is actually "tell" a guy what he "ought to do".

A legal relationship with a woman (including marriage, cohabitation, and making kids) is just way too risky, has too many nuisances, and can literally (I mean literally) destroy a man's life FOREVER....for me to tell him what he "ought" to be doing in relation to it.

This has to be a personal decision. This has to be an individual decision. And whatever decision that man makes........society, women, other men, etc, should not be "shaming" him, or "bashing him", or doing anything of the sort in relation to it.

Just like women want to have a RIGHT to what goes on with their bodies, men want to have a RIGHT as to what goes on with their lives and if a man decides he does NOT want to sacrifice his life in some form or fashion.....for a woman, a kid, kids, etc....that ought to be his respected right. Unfortunately, even on a "Men's Development Forum", I'm just not seeing that. I'm seeing the SAME shaming tactics of trying to SHAME men into entering legal contracts with women that society, the church, and others do all of the time.

 

[guru1000]

Tenacity, I don’t think others’ intent is to shame men into marrying, as much as it is to unshame those men who are open to it.

Marriage is an individual choice, with myriad circumstances and exceptions to the rule (more than the several you outlined in the Marriage thread). I purposefully did not delineate all the particular circumstances where marriage makes sense As to leave the idea open and to the sole discretion of the reader should that reader approach a unique situation not thought about/discussed here.

Regardless, in any contract you enter, understand the direct and implicit consequences and conditions fully, and negotiate that contract as best as you can in your favor (without crossing the line of unconscionability to the other party). In the context of this discussion, this means absolute focus and time investments into the prenup, asset protection, and securing an attorney who has specialized experience litigating for and against prenups.

 

[Tenacity]

Tenacity, I don’t think others’ intent is to shame men into marrying, as much as it is to unshame those men who are open to it.

But where in society are Men who are open to marriage shamed? I can't name one place, even The Manosphere/Sosuave. If a guy jumped up here and said he wanted to get married.....I have never seen anybody on this forum (any credible poster I should say) begin roasting and shaming that guy.

I have seen Men in society and on this board, state they don't want to get married nor have kids, who get shamed out of the park. Men on this board call those guys selfish, bitter, scared to take risks, etc.

Marriage is an individual choice, with myriad circumstances and exceptions to the rule (more than the several you outlined in the Marriage thread). I purposefully did not delineate all the particular circumstances where marriage makes sense As to leave the idea open and to the sole discretion of the reader should that reader approach a unique situation not thought about/discussed here.

Agreed.

Regardless, in any contract you enter, understand the direct and implicit consequences and conditions fully, and negotiate that contract as best as you can in your favor (without crossing the line of unconscionability to the other party). In the context of this discussion, this means absolute focus and time investments into the prenup, asset protection, and securing an attorney who has specialized experience litigating for and against prenups.

But see here is where I would argue, that negotiating the marriage contract in your "favor" as a Man, would be to find a way to be with a decent girl without marrying her at all. That's the best thing in your favor as a man. Even the concept of having kids, you can still have kids with someone and not marry them, even live with a woman and not marry her, as long as you aren't in a Palimony State.

Your argument might be that the Man would be on the hook for Child Support....but the thing is, Child Support ends when the kid is 18 - 20 and the formula is based on care specifically to the Child.....that's a much better deal than Child Support AND Divorce Costs AND Alimony.

 

[guru1000]

Let’s just say I’ve been around the Manosphere block for a while. Men have been shamed not to get married overall. This has been the overriding theme.

All I did is crush this binary outline, and leave exceptions for a more balanced perspective.

 

[Tenacity]

Let’s just say I’ve been around the Manosphere block for a while. Men have been shamed not to get married overall. This has been the overriding theme.

All I did is crush this binary outline, and leave exceptions for a more balanced perspective.

Tell you what.....let's just go with the notion that let's say 75% of the Manosphere is against a man marrying. The reality is that 90% of society is in favor of a man marrying. Plus about how many men are on the Manosphere, out of the 150 million men in America? Less than 0.1%? Plus, most men don't stay on the Manosphere that long either.

 

[guru1000]

I’m not soliciting society, only the men here.

I want the men here to be their best, and part of that is to expand their thinking beyond the binary to do what serves their overall interests best. In many cases, this could be not marrying. But now they have a choice.

You’d be surprised how much impact what we say here can have on the younger minds reading.

 

[Tenacity]

All I did is crush this binary outline, and leave exceptions for a more balanced perspective.

I think what you did well in that debate......was paint the option of marriage under a near PERFECT situation lol.

I mean you listed out the perfect unicorn, with the perfect unicorn attitude, from the perfect unicorn family, in the perfect unicorn situation, who is willing to sign a prenup that's tied to all sorts of complicated legal structures that would make Perry Mason confused lol.

It was a pure, perfect, situation....which is honestly unrealistic for the vast majority of the 150 million men in America. Guru I can tell you, with the decent black women I run across, NONE of them are willing to sign a Prenup lol. Most women in general won't sign it.

 

[BeExcellent]

My intent, for the record gentlemen is not to shame anybody.

It is simply to point out dynamics and goals that women of childbearing age are likely to have if they envision a nuclear family one day. Those dynamics and goals affect their choices.

I mean hell...I didn't even start the thread...but I did make the (utterly blunt) comment that Inspired it so I did think it sensible to elaborate.

As I've said repeatedly if what you are doing works for you...Brilliant & carry on!

I'm just explaining a dynamic and illustrating it's rationale from a perspective that is common among women of childbearing age. Might as well know what you are dealing with potentially.

And yes marriage must be considered on the merits in the context of the woman in question. Just like any legal arrangement. Who the other party happens to be is of paramount importance.

 

[guru1000]

Guru I can tell you, with the decent black women I run across, NONE of them are willing to sign a Prenup lol. Most women in general won't sign it.

Perfect reason never to marry them. Their declination serves you.

I’m 3 for 3 for their willingness to sign a prenup (despite my success), though I never followed through.

 

[ImTheDoubleGreatest!]

Plus about how many men are on the Manosphere, out of the 150 million men in America? Less than 0.1%? Plus, most men don't stay on the Manosphere that long either.

Actually, you’d be surprised. More guys are waking up now. Maybe not older people, but college-aged and recently graduated men are much more aware. Especially in the liberal schools. I myself am shocked tbh, but stuff is definitely changing. With such an extreme mainstream culture, there will have to be another equally extreme counterculture, as there always is. Such is the way of Newton’s Third Law.

 

[wifehunter]

 

[skinnyguy]

Tell you what.....let's just go with the notion that let's say 75% of the Manosphere is against a man marrying. The reality is that 90% of society is in favor of a man marrying. Plus about how many men are on the Manosphere, out of the 150 million men in America? Less than 0.1%? Plus, most men don't stay on the Manosphere that long either.

True. A large majority of men are not in the manosphere. Most men get married between the age of 25 and 30 and never learn about stuff like RSD.

My intent, for the record gentlemen is not to shame anybody.

It is simply to point out dynamics and goals that women of childbearing age are likely to have if they envision a nuclear family one day. Those dynamics and goals affect their choices.

I mean hell...I didn't even start the thread...but I did make the (utterly blunt) comment that Inspired it so I did think it sensible to elaborate.

As I've said repeatedly if what you are doing works for you...Brilliant & carry on!

I'm just explaining a dynamic and illustrating it's rationale from a perspective that is common among women of childbearing age. Might as well know what you are dealing with potentially.

And yes marriage must be considered on the merits in the context of the woman in question. Just like any legal arrangement. Who the other party happens to be is of paramount importance.

Marriage usually isn't exclusive. If marriage were so successful, there would not be a 50% divorce rate. Expect that statistic to get worse now that women and men have more options to get laid online.

 

[ImTheDoubleGreatest!]

In fact, thinking about it, I never disagreed more with someone on this forum. And I put that simply down to gender differences. That's what it should be.

I myself have never been too fond of her either. It’s not so much her ideals that I disagree with, because maybe they do hold true in her world (although they aren’t in mine) so I do have to somewhat respect part of her opinion. However, there is very eloquent wordplay that sidesteps questions, pushes her pretentious ego in a humblebrag fashion, and portrays a passively snobbish attitude; lots of that goes unnoticed by many of the more idealistic posters as well as some older fellas. I don’t like how she can push opposing viewpoints onto others. This is exactly how the gradual process of whithering a man away until he is no longer said man.

Oftentimes in the beginning of a relationship, the man is strong and leading. But over time, his woman chips away at him in slight ways so that gradually he becomes lesser and lesser. She is doing the same thing here at SoSuave. If left unchecked, she may eventually convert this whole place into a gay men’s club. And I am astonished that so many cannot see it. They are so mesmerized by her words that they can’t see what they actually mean. They forget the basic concept of actions of words. ‘Wow, very great statement BE!’ Yet they fail to realize that she is saying that in order for men to get women to sleep with them, they must marry them.

And here we are, with a 7 paged thread dedicated to bibble-babble. So much for educated discussion.

It’s all good though because you you still have buffoons on the complete opposite end of the spectrum like Tenacity who will counteract everything she says. Isn’t the ignore button wonderful?

 

[ImTheDoubleGreatest!]

you mean to tell me that women are AWARE, that evenutally they will have to stop banging an alpha and find a guy thats gonna happily commit to her if said alpha cant be "fixed" up into marriage material? YOU DONT SAY!?




so NAWALT.got it.



oohhh so you openly admit to having beta orbiters?



heheheh no kidding?



sure doesnt look that way to me.in fact you just tooted your own horn again about having orbiters while still being caught up in the wiles of a more alpha man who isnt commited to you lol (remember fellas,women rather share a valuable mate than have the undivided attentions of a faithful loser)



oh my, is this the natural progression of relationships?



actually, those of us in the know are constantly telling guys that women are natural PUAs. they are already game savvy and red pill. they are students of the game from childhood as social dynamics is a womans default prerogative.



well thats kinda why this website exists and why men spend hundreds of dollars in pua seminars and products.because a mans default prerogative IS NOT social dynamics



on this we agree.the genders are meant to be complimentary, not adversarial. but yet feminism constantly seeks to masculinize women (career women and you go grrrlll approach to life) and feminize men WHILE STILL HOLDING MEN ACCOUNTABLE for their traditional gender role characteristics.



the nuclear family unit hasnt quite gone the way of the dinosaurs...... yet. it also stands to reason that you are more likely to see these family units among your age group and in more traditional minded families. but exceptions prove the rule



i dont recall ever seeing men here or anywhere else claiming that no marriage can be fulfilling and happy. you are confusing men lamenting the direction marriage has gone with a sour grapes cynicism



chick speak for absolving women of their duplicitous sexual strategy. if by vitriol,(cruel and bitter criticsm) you mean a bare bones deconstruction of the default bio/psycho mechanisms that drive a womans behavior.....then yea,the truth is often painful.

ahh the good ol' "sensitive male ego" convention.

always be wary of a womans advice gentleman. no matter how well meaning and understanding it may seem. a trout will never teach you how to catch him and his buddies.

the intent of "red pill women" is to change the game from the inside. game and the red pill evolved as the natural push back against radical feminism and they cant stop it head on. the solution is poison the well.
agree with the tenets of game that benefits them while trying to hold us responsible for the creation of better betas that will suit the feminine imperative nicely.

some of us will tell you that its ok to hold off on commitment and be non exlusive with as many women as you want or that you can find a girl you want to marry and thats ok.

red pill women want to convince you that positive masculinity is ok as long as you have the intention of being a more noble alpha

If I was president, I would award you the Medal of Honor.

 

[ChristopherColumbus]

I am currently dating, à women who is westernized and quite christian (extreme) and is in first expériences of dating although she's an adult.

Gotta say, I am happy with her.

Last night, we had à deep serious talk almost an argument... about sex and marriage.

For her marriage is : 1) access to sex 2) access to living together 3) promise to god etc...

She was raised that even kissing was prohibited before mariage.

As we date (7months soon) she's physically more open to me... but nothing sexual other than kissing. (yes she submitted to me on that)

Last night, it was me basically telling her i am going crazy, my testostérone is ****ing my brain.

Yes marriage is quite à commitment, but it doesnt guarante 1) happines 2) that we can live together....

Its truth: look at divorce raté (even after 50 years marriage), or LTR that fails when people moving in together.

Its one Damn big leap of faith with no knowledge and full of questions. She goes on about we will make it, divorce is not an option, that why we dating to screen, look at all the christian who date for 5years without sex etc...

Everyone here knows: you are guaranted nothing other than results of your actions.

I've told her: you are àt your first.. it's normal its the most important and marking one.. so normal you wait.. like a teen girl with her first boyfriend.. however, i've been around... and sex is part of GF/BF life and making its REAL... to know that passions ain't blinding us in fairy tale Land and than after mariage we are: "that's it?"

She even told me how woman find their "husband" after marriage différent from the man they married. (red flag for expérience DJ).

Anyway, waiting this long and still waiting made me know: I am in for her personality, brain, inner beauty, faith.. but that sex is also important but not the driver.

People are marrying for love now, not duty or ressources. Choices are endless... and I told her: it's possible for me to find à girl like you that would accept sex... but I am here with you.

You are in or not, I need to feel its réal.

Physically, she keep barriers still and no touch rules.. that hurts me all the time. I know where she's coming from but there is Damn limits.

In the end: only issue is we are not married.. but why marry someone you don't know intimately... and how you know someone intimately? By being intimate and in their zone (like under the same roof)

We all know that, we all lived the: being together 5 years at 2 times à week, but didnt survive the moving in.

She feel i pressured her alot, indeed sex talk been pretty présent and needy from me in our dating. I've keep frame, but kept pushing and talking about it (cause it bothers me).... it might give good or bad results.. but it also tells me she's in for me. (and not some hitting the wall)

She does sort stuff differently, but she never tasted anything outside of it (pure and innocence) but she has expectations... expectations needs filling otherwise.. ouch and here come frame battles.

I read à part of the bible in the corinthian section about pleasure of the body and marriage: they were mentionning how people were promiscious (sleeping around)

Heck my gf even said: there is no proof Mary mother of god was virgin because engaged Jews have sex before mariage.

Still, they mentionned how living your passions should be in married life but married man should be single/alone once in a while. Etc..

This marriage and sex talk remind me of this movie scène (dont know the movie or scene) about à elderly man in a Ball (dance bal for the rich) ask this young lady for a dance, than he hits on her.. the young lady says: my lord, I am married.

The answer of the old man: "It's a unfornate circumstance but, let me tell you, how marriage for woman of the past was the gateway to sexual liberty"

End of my rant lol.

As an egoist you will put your own 'needs' first. As a moral being, you will do the right thing for the both of you. So you need to decide whether to get engaged or leave her alone. If you seduce her against all her convictions, you will regret it because you will feel guilty.... all that for a moment of pleasure is simply not worth it. Glad to see you have found a good woman... forget 'plates' for a moment, can you step up to the plate?

 

[BeExcellent]

Oh for fvck's sake guys...

@deesade you are now making stuff up and assigning it to some "frame issue" that I am somehow trying to get men to submit too? Are you mad? You are assigning all sorts of things to me that I have never said (I don't care how fast you sleep with women - I am not like the women in your family - I make no judgement whether they are quality girls or not because you know them personally whereas I do not...) You are projecting a whole bunch of nonsense on me once again. Nothing personal but that is what is going on here. And for the record nobody taught me the female social dynamics until college. So no, I didn't grow up with all that. My biggest influence growing up was my father, my grandmother and my grandfather. My mother was never a social person so I myself had LOTS to learn about women but I've always understood men exceptionally well due to the way I was raised. I'm pleased to say that I now have many friends of both genders...and @MidnightCity I don't invite and encourage beta orbiters...but hot women always have admirers just as high value men have female attention constantly.

I could care less who gets married here and who doesn't. I could care less who you date and how fast you sleep together. I do think that "quality women", which much of the board defines as relatively chaste if not virgin, from good family, etc., etc., is something much of the board values and I do think women with stronger moral fiber behave differently than women with less moral fiber. None of that is my sole opinion. Desdinova has a whole theory based on those "quality" arguments, the High Score Theory. I simply made a comment about how many women think and WHY. You're not going to marry and that's fine. And I could care less. Do what makes you happy. That is what I say to you every time you start up this frame pushing delusion. You understand the game well enough that you know better but you think you've got to be the spin factory. Do you really think everyone else here is that dum and I'm that smart? You give me far too much credit. My views are actually pretty consistent, as is my posting style and the things I relate. It's all on here if people care to browse around and read. My posts stand just fine on their own.

If you don't like my content ignore me. Easy. All good.

How is it that a 48 year old chick has so much power that you guys feel compelled to pick what I say in this thread for example apart? Think about that. THAT is what is the REAL head scratcher here. As though all the other men running around this site have mush for brains, can't think for themselves, and might fall under my influence. Oh Dear.

I'm truly flattered @ImTheDoubleGreatest! and @MidnightCity that I'm so important...and it's always a good sparring match from time to time deesade, but I think the men here are plenty smart enough to figure things out all by themselves. They can read and they aren't stupid. @Augustus_McCrae asked a simple question and asked for a rationale. I gave the rationale which is a commonly held notion amongst women and people flipped out.

There are times when I give some of the toughest buckle your seatbelt advice on here. Sometimes things that some of the guys shy away from saying. And it is always intended to help in the given situation and I typically disclose that it's going to be extremely blunt tough love advice. But its just advice. Take it or leave it.

The idea that I'm somehow going to wear down the whole board? Laughable. Utterly ridiculous. If that's true then I'm in the wrong business doing healthcare & real estate! And my intent in being here is well meaning and uplifting and at times brutally unvarnished. There needs to be more MEN in the world folks. Men like my dad and my grandfather and uncles. Men's Men. It's a men's board, I know that, I understand folks may not like or appreciate me being here, some may not trust my motivation...and that's perfectly fine but at the end of the day I'm just one voice among many others.

I mean frankly just close the whole thread already if it's that big a deal. Augustus asked a question...I answered the question...simple. All this other silliness is just that.

And no its not because you guys are picking me apart. It seems the thread has devolved to a point of little value. If the mods disagree, leave it open. It matters not.

Cheers

 

[AJ84]

Some guy posted a thread specifically asking for female members to respond. Female member responds and because she didn't contribute to some groupthink confirmation bias she gets dumped on, with comments and warnings about being influenced by a female poster, when the OP was directly asking for female input. Either the OP was genuinely interested in what females think about the topic or it was bait.

There are women who are focused on marriage and who hold off on sex and refuse to waste time with guys who don't want to commit. Why does this upset men who have no intention of marrying anyway? It's a head scratcher to me. It's like a person telling me that being vegan is bad. I have no intention of becoming vegan so that opinion is irrelevant to me.

 

[Augustus_McCrae]

Some guy posted a thread specifically asking for female members to respond. Female member responds and because she didn't contribute to some groupthink confirmation bias she gets dumped on, with comments and warnings about being influenced by a female poster, when the OP was directly asking for female input. Either the OP was genuinely interested in what females think about the topic or it was bait.

There are women who are focused on marriage and who hold off on sex and refuse to waste time with guys who don't want to commit. Why does this upset men who have no intention of marrying anyway? It's a head scratcher to me. It's like a person telling me that being vegan is bad. I have no intention of becoming vegan so that opinion is irrelevant to me.

Don't confuse marriage with commitment. You can be committed and exclusive to someone without being married. They are two different things. However, women obviously feel differently because they have an agenda. And a man is the means to fulfilling that agenda.

Women want marriage when they feel it benefits them financially or socially. However, when their finances are at potential risk (BE, for example, is now concerned that it could hurt her financially) they won't push the marriage agenda because it could hurt them.

And with regard to BE getting "dumped on", my opinion is that she can handle herself just fine.

-Augustus-

 

[highSpeed]

@BeExcellent stated this in another thread:

"Nothing short of marriage is exclusive to be perfectly honest".

Perhaps BE and some of the other women who post here would care to comment and enlighten us about why a woman would feel this way. Why would a woman state this? What is the reasoning and rationale?

And lets assume for this discussion that the woman has stated that she is only seeing/involved with the man. She has agreed that they are exclusive. But, they aren't legally married.

-Augustus-

and not even that is exclusive, it all really depends on what is going on in that hamster wheel of a brain at the moment. women always project and always judge every moment by their feelings. approach any and all LTRs, especially marriage, with an extreme amount of caution