Your thoughts on men hitting their stride with women and being f*ckboys after 30.

[SW15]

I found out that I had PIED 10 years ago and felt that I was too damaged from all of the porn and masturbation for seduction to ever give me the results I’m looking for.

Fixing your PIED problem is your #1 task. Having good erectile is more important than getting shredded.

I’ve lost close to 40 lbs of body fat so even though I haven’t been lifting weights (but I do want to) at least I did make a positive change to my physique.

That's a step the right direction. Are you still overweight?

It was one of the biggest mistakes I ever made going to community college right after high school, I had so many family members back then egging me on to go to community college and how it’s such a good choice to do that. If I had gone into a trade program instead, my life would be so much different and better than what it is now. After dropping out, I just worked a series of dead end jobs that had no chance of ever being a career.

The problem is that you didn't use your time well at community college. There are community college with trade certification programs.

For white collar type paths, fewer people transfer from community college to a 4 year university to finish a bachelor's degree.

 

[GoodMan32]

The website-only model is dead. People seek sex on apps (either Feeld or Tinder-Bumble-Hinge). Also, sex/romance can be found through the DMs on social media platforms (mainly Instagram, but X also works for this).

I fully admit the website-only model isn't as popular as it once was.

The fact I at least managed to get replies as recently as 2021 (on a craigslist post that wasn't even about sex), however, would suggest it can still happen using the website model. Yeah, I know I never ended up having sex with those 2 broads in 2021, but if I posted on craigslist more in recent years (even with being confined to non-sex topics), I likely would end up eventually getting lucky.

Put it this way: The type of woman to peruse craigslist 10 years ago is likely still perusing craigslist today (because even 10 years ago, craigslist wasn't just about sex; craigslist covers all different topics)

Apps can be popular all they want, yet the fact remains that I've never gotten lucky from an app. Isn't insanity doing the same thing over and over again but expecting different results?

 

[SW15]

Apps can be popular all they want, yet the fact remains that I've never gotten lucky from an app. Isn't insanity doing the same thing over and over again but expecting different results?

That's true. You'd have to make drastic changes in how you use apps to avoid that insanity. If you don't think you can make it work with apps, then it is best not to use apps.

I only meet women through real life methods. I find that's a better fit for me.

Guys who are fucckbois later in life generally discover a method that works best for them.

 

[GoodMan32]

I live in America and like SW15, I disagree and think that there’s absolutely pressure to settle down and get married in America.

I’ll try and summarize it the best I can because posts tend to get long when I explain it, but I saw friends get rejected starting back in elementary with innocent schoolyard crushes and I didn’t want to go through the hurt feelings and embarrassment that they did. I felt that there was no point in me even trying since I would probably be guaranteed the same outcome, so I never did try. When I got to high school, I witnessed harsh rejections happen to other guys I knew and it just reinforced this belief I was holding onto. I went to two high schools and at both of them, I had girls approaching me and trying to start conversations. But because of this belief I was holding onto and the negative mindset it brought, I really didn’t reciprocate when they tried to talk to me and I didn’t approach them in return obviously. Eventually the girls who did this gave up and at both high schools I got into the situation where I didn’t talk to any girls because I didn’t know any of them and didn’t have the confidence to anyway, and none of them talked to me because they didn’t know me and the attempts they made never went anywhere. This led to me only talking to other guys at the schools, which looked weird to a lot of classmates. I actually had a group of guy friends I had known for years at my first school that were successful with girls, but they began distancing themselves and excluding me when they saw that I wasn’t getting anywhere with girls. I went on to graduate high school at 18 as a kissless virgin.

After high school, I went to community college and there was no social aspect to that at all. Everyone just goes to class and goes home, you don’t really meet dating prospects like you do at universities. I ended up dropping out of community college and just started working instead, but I mostly worked jobs that were either male dominated or were mostly older people with a couple notable exceptions. Also when I turned 20, I really started to worry about my lack of dating experience and felt that I was now stuck in a catch-22 where I needed to already have experience in order to date and that women will be turned off by my lack of experience. I did end up losing my virginity at 21, but now at 10 years later I’ve had nothing since then. I let this concern about being inexperienced be another thing to hold me back and now I’m still inexperienced at 31 and the lack of experience looks a million times worse than it did in my early 20’s and is so much more unappealing to women now. So at 31, I’ve never once in my life asked a woman out and also have never even asked a woman for her phone number.

That’s just the dating background aspect too, I also still live at home with my parents and don’t have a social circle or a career. When this is all added up, I just feel completely hopeless most of the time and now I’ve turned to alcohol more than ever before because it makes me so depressed and I really do feel like I’m gonna be alone forever at this point.

My younger years were a lot like yours (even if not entirely identical). I managed to get one reciprocal schoolyard crush in elementary school (it only lasted maybe a month though).

Middle school and high school, I never had any girlfriends (and like you, I graduated high school a kissless virgin). Where we differ is that I at least expressed interest in some girls during middle school and high school (and got humiliated). Come junior year, I pretty much stopped trying with girls. Ironically, junior year was when a girl finally came along that I probably had a chance with. But like you, I basically shut down the opportunity.

One thing I dealt with in high school was being the 3rd wheel (sounds like you dealt with that too)

 

[GoodMan32]

Yeah I’m pretty sure they think that the casual sex lifestyle just makes men our age look immature and pathetic, but I don’t care either. I think its to be expected that people want to sow their wild oats and have fun before getting serious and settling down. So I get annoyed when some people say that you just need to live with the fact that you missed out on the casual and fun phase of dating and you’ll just have to accept that and be ready to settle down when you’re out there dating at your age because that’s what most women in your age group are looking for.

I don’t think either of those options would work for me though. I’m inexperienced at the age of 31 and that hurts your chances so much, it is an awful situation to be in.

Younger women wouldn’t want me because the biggest selling point for them when it comes to an age gap relationship is the guy’s higher experience level. It’s desirable to them because they assume he will have gained a lot of sexual and relationship experience and will be better in bed and at handling a relationship than most men her age. But once they find out that despite the age gap she has far more experience than him, it becomes very alarming and off putting and they’ll run away instantly.

Same goes for the second option, a woman who has as much experience to where she was married and divorced won’t want a guy who’s never dated at all. Neither will women in a sexless marriage because they want men who can give them good sex, and they’ll assume that inexperienced men aren’t capable of doing that.

The fact you live with parents and have no career will hurt too. In addition to the extra experience an older man presumably has in the bedroom, another selling point for older men is that they generally make more money than a younger man (but you don't have that selling point going for you either).

And no, I'm not insulting you. As I've mentioned on this forum, I myself have a low income and partially rely on parents financially.

As for the general topic of sowing your wild oats earlier in life vs later in life, ironically I was more open to settling down (or at least having a girlfriend) in my younger days. At my current age, I don't have the energy to keep a relationship going (which is why I want a casual sex arrangement, not a girlfriend/wife)

 

[GoodMan32]

You have been on SoSuave for 3 years. What have you actually learned on SoSuave?

In the last 15 years, why haven't you used the internet to learn seduction? Why haven't you lifted weights/played a sport? Attracting women is about looks first. Money, status, and personality also help, but you can seduce on looks alone. @BPH is one of the top seducers on this board based mainly on looks and he's done in a mediocre at best geographic market.

Instead of being obsessed with porn and masturbating, you should have channeled that energy into weight lifting. You could have created a 'Chad' type physique. Instead, you got into porn, masturbation, and alcohol.

You also didn't do well with money, status, or personality. While college isn't for everyone, you could have gone into one of the skilled trades and made a decent living. You could have been a plumber, auto mechanic, welder, etc.

You need to make your entire life right about about getting a shredded physique. Your life is lifting weights, eating clean, no pornography, no masturbation, and alcohol only as social lubricant. You might be able to become a post-30 fucckboi by doing that.

While it's totally true that having a muscular build can attract the ladies, I just remembered a time in college when a girl I dated off OkCupid flat out admitted to me the only reason she felt safe agreeing to come over my place after our 2nd date was because she was confident she could overpower me if need be.

Come to think of it, my skinny build could have played a role in why I got as much casual sex off craigslist as I did during college: Despite being a total stranger, the broads felt safe because they knew they could likely overpower me if I tried any funny business.

In other words, the safety a woman feels from knowing she can overpower a man might help a skinny man get a woman into the sack for casual sex.

 

[SW15]

the safety a woman feels from knowing she can overpower a man might help a skinny man get a woman into the sack for casual sex.

A shredded, muscular physique will drop panties far faster than a perception of safety.

 

[GoodMan32]

That's true. You'd have to make drastic changes in how you use apps to avoid that insanity. If you don't think you can make it work with apps, then it is best not to use apps.

I only meet women through real life methods. I find that's a better fit for me.

Guys who are fucckbois later in life generally discover a method that works best for them.

After seeing what I look like, I remember you said I'd be ignored on apps (which lines up with my real live experience on apps)

The type of man to succeed on apps is likely the same type of man who'd have no problem getting a woman outside of apps. Which begs the question: In that case, what's the point of apps existing in the first place?

 

[needimprovement250]

Fixing your PIED problem is your #1 task. Having good erectile is more important than getting shredded.

I agree and it’s been so difficult to fix. As I go down the recovery path, eventually my libido goes way up and I get demoralized since I know that because of the other aspects of my life that will turn women off, I won’t be having sex with women anytime soon. My current life situation keeps me a porn addict.

That's a step the right direction. Are you still overweight?

Not really, I could stand to lose just a little bit more maybe but I now weigh 182 at 6 ft tall. I started out at 218. I feel like lifting would probably be better than continued fat loss at this point.

The problem is that you didn't use your time well at community college. There are community college with trade certification programs.

For white collar type paths, fewer people transfer from community college to a 4 year university to finish a bachelor's degree.

Yeah that’s true. When I went to community college after high school, I just enrolled in general education classes, which are required for a transfer degree. I also found out while attending that a lot of the core classes I needed for a transfer required prerequisite classes and some of those classes required additional prerequisites of their own. I got angry, frustrated, and demoralized so I dropped out. I also didn’t have a clear idea of what I wanted to do for a career, so it ended up serving as something to occupy my time after high school.

A lot of people I’ve met did the same thing too, they went to community college after high school and ended up dropping out and working blue collar. I think that if you don’t have a game plan prepared going in, community college can be a bait and switch to land you in blue collar work.

But like I said, I am back in community college again and this time I am going for a certification, not a transfer or associates degree.

 

[needimprovement250]

My younger years were a lot like yours (even if not entirely identical). I managed to get one reciprocal schoolyard crush in elementary school (it only lasted maybe a month though).

Middle school and high school, I never had any girlfriends (and like you, I graduated high school a kissless virgin). Where we differ is that I at least expressed interest in some girls during middle school and high school (and got humiliated). Come junior year, I pretty much stopped trying with girls. Ironically, junior year was when a girl finally came along that I probably had a chance with. But like you, I basically shut down the opportunity.

One thing I dealt with in high school was being the 3rd wheel (sounds like you dealt with that too)

You did a little more than me back then and yeah the risk of getting humiliated was definitely something that held me back and stopped me from trying. I did either shut down opportunities or due to the fact that I had no guidance or male role model to help me, I was completely oblivious to the fact that I had a chance with a girl and missed out.

Yep I dealt with being the third wheel in high school and after high school as well. I think after high school was worse because it just feels awkward to go for an outing with your friend and their partner, they would be having a better and more romantic time without you there and you feel like they just invited you because they feel bad.

 

[needimprovement250]

The fact you live with parents and have no career will hurt too. In addition to the extra experience an older man presumably has in the bedroom, another selling point for older men is that they generally make more money than a younger man (but you don't have that selling point going for you either).

Yeah I know and that’s the problem, I have none of the selling points that makes an older man appealing to younger women. Then women closer to my age would want a man to have more dating experience in addition to an income and career like they do, so they would write me off too. Older women wouldn’t want to deal with a broke inexperienced guy who lives at home either. That’s what sucks about this situation, the inexperience alone makes me unappealing to all age demographics of women and the other aspects make it even worse.

 

[needimprovement250]

nd no, I'm not insulting you. As I've mentioned on this forum, I myself have a low income and partially rely on parents financially.

As for the general topic of sowing your wild oats earlier in life vs later in life, ironically I was more open to settling down (or at least having a girlfriend) in my younger days. At my current age, I don't have the energy to keep a relationship going (which is why I want a casual sex arrangement, not a girlfriend/wife)

Oh no I know that you’re not insulting me, you’re familiar with this situation too and know how much of a disadvantage it can put you in. I’ve always wanted a relationship, but I also do want to date around and play the field to see what’s out there. I don’t want to settle down with the first woman I get involved with and it sucks because most in our age group want to settle down and that makes it more difficult.

 

[GoodMan32]

You did a little more than me back then and yeah the risk of getting humiliated was definitely something that held me back and stopped me from trying. I did either shut down opportunities or due to the fact that I had no guidance or male role model to help me, I was completely oblivious to the fact that I had a chance with a girl and missed out.

Yep I dealt with being the third wheel in high school and after high school as well. I think after high school was worse because it just feels awkward to go for an outing with your friend and their partner, they would be having a better and more romantic time without you there and you feel like they just invited you because they feel bad.

With the humiliations I went through in middle school, freshman year, and sophomore year, I couldn't take another humiliation. Even if I was pretty sure this girl we'll call Tracy (not her real name) was into me junior year, I wasn't 100% sure. Had I officially verbalized my interest to Tracy, and it turned out she wasn't into me, it would have made me feel like the world's biggest idiot.

Something about me changed in high school where I withdrew socially in general. I remember my childhood best friend (who ditched me in middle school for the cool kids) eventually ended up sending me a message online in high school asking me if I wanted to come over the next day. I never replied. My reciprocal schoolyard crush from elementary school sent me a message online in high school telling me how good I looked after growing my hair out. I never replied.

Circling back to what you said about not having a male role model, that can certainly hurt a guy's chances with the girls. With how much time my dad was away for work (between long work days, long commutes, and frequent business trips), I was raised primarily by my mom. One of the forum posters on here who was also raised primarily by his mom has said before that guys who were raised primarily by their mom are often lacking in the skills to woo a girl.

As for the 3rd wheel thing, both are embarrassing (being the 3rd wheel with friends in high school or after high school). Perhaps even more embarrassing is the position I'm currently in: The biggest social life I have at my current age is being my parents' 3rd wheel

 

[Manure Spherian]

I live in America and like SW15, I disagree and think that there’s absolutely pressure to settle down and get married in America.

I’ll try and summarize it the best I can because posts tend to get long when I explain it, but I saw friends get rejected starting back in elementary with innocent schoolyard crushes and I didn’t want to go through the hurt feelings and embarrassment that they did. I felt that there was no point in me even trying since I would probably be guaranteed the same outcome, so I never did try. When I got to high school, I witnessed harsh rejections happen to other guys I knew and it just reinforced this belief I was holding onto. I went to two high schools and at both of them, I had girls approaching me and trying to start conversations. But because of this belief I was holding onto and the negative mindset it brought, I really didn’t reciprocate when they tried to talk to me and I didn’t approach them in return obviously. Eventually the girls who did this gave up and at both high schools I got into the situation where I didn’t talk to any girls because I didn’t know any of them and didn’t have the confidence to anyway, and none of them talked to me because they didn’t know me and the attempts they made never went anywhere. This led to me only talking to other guys at the schools, which looked weird to a lot of classmates. I actually had a group of guy friends I had known for years at my first school that were successful with girls, but they began distancing themselves and excluding me when they saw that I wasn’t getting anywhere with girls. I went on to graduate high school at 18 as a kissless virgin.

After high school, I went to community college and there was no social aspect to that at all. Everyone just goes to class and goes home, you don’t really meet dating prospects like you do at universities. I ended up dropping out of community college and just started working instead, but I mostly worked jobs that were either male dominated or were mostly older people with a couple notable exceptions. Also when I turned 20, I really started to worry about my lack of dating experience and felt that I was now stuck in a catch-22 where I needed to already have experience in order to date and that women will be turned off by my lack of experience. I did end up losing my virginity at 21, but now at 10 years later I’ve had nothing since then. I let this concern about being inexperienced be another thing to hold me back and now I’m still inexperienced at 31 and the lack of experience looks a million times worse than it did in my early 20’s and is so much more unappealing to women now. So at 31, I’ve never once in my life asked a woman out and also have never even asked a woman for her phone number.

That’s just the dating background aspect too, I also still live at home with my parents and don’t have a social circle or a career. When this is all added up, I just feel completely hopeless most of the time and now I’ve turned to alcohol more than ever before because it makes me so depressed and I really do feel like I’m gonna be alone forever at this point.

Thank you for your candid post. It confirms my warning to young men who might be lurking here.

 

[needimprovement250]

Thank you for your candid post. It confirms my warning to young men who might be lurking here.

What is your warning?

 

[SW15]

The type of man to succeed on apps is likely the same type of man who'd have no problem getting a woman outside of apps. Which begs the question: In that case, what's the point of apps existing in the first place?

There's a certain efficiency on the swipe apps and Instagram that nightlife venues are unable to match. While apps and Instagram aren't efficient for the mid-tier man, they are hyper efficient for the top tier man (6'0"+, fit/muscular, and often elite level on income and/or net worth).

 

[Manure Spherian]

What is your warning?

Get ahold of this area of life early or there will be serious risk of inceldom and social alienation.

 

[needimprovement250]

Get ahold of this area of life early or there will be serious risk of inceldom and social alienation.

That’s a good warning to give. I myself have used my background as a cautionary tale to men younger than me when given the chance. I bought into the BS claims that there’s no problems with finding a partner later in life and that getting started with dating at an older age won’t be any more difficult than starting at the average age when you’re younger. I found out the hard way that was a lie and that people will say that just to cope you.

 

[Manure Spherian]

That’s a good warning to give. I myself have used my background as a cautionary tale to men younger than me when given the chance. I bought into the BS claims that there’s no problems with finding a partner later in life and that getting started with dating at an older age won’t be any more difficult than starting at the average age when you’re younger. I found out the hard way that was a lie and that people will say that just to cope you.

Risk factors for inceldom:
1. Being ordinary (not a man’s fault and wasn’t a problem in years past).
2. Matriarchal, abusive, or problem-ridden households.
3. A family that moves too frequently.
4. Lack of life milestones achieved, or achieved relatively late, especially one’s first sexual encounter.

If someone is experiencing any of these , he should take them seriously and try to ameliorate these or know what’s in store.

 

[needimprovement250]

With the humiliations I went through in middle school, freshman year, and sophomore year, I couldn't take another humiliation. Even if I was pretty sure this girl we'll call Tracy (not her real name) was into me junior year, I wasn't 100% sure. Had I officially verbalized my interest to Tracy, and it turned out she wasn't into me, it would have made me feel like the world's biggest idiot.

Something about me changed in high school where I withdrew socially in general. I remember my childhood best friend (who ditched me in middle school for the cool kids) eventually ended up sending me a message online in high school asking me if I wanted to come over the next day. I never replied. My reciprocal schoolyard crush from elementary school sent me a message online in high school telling me how good I looked after growing my hair out. I never replied.

Circling back to what you said about not having a male role model, that can certainly hurt a guy's chances with the girls. With how much time my dad was away for work (between long work days, long commutes, and frequent business trips), I was raised primarily by my mom. One of the forum posters on here who was also raised primarily by his mom has said before that guys who were raised primarily by their mom are often lacking in the skills to woo a girl.

As for the 3rd wheel thing, both are embarrassing (being the 3rd wheel with friends in high school or after high school). Perhaps even more embarrassing is the position I'm currently in: The biggest social life I have at my current age is being my parents' 3rd wheel

Our stories are pretty similar. I wouldn’t even allow myself to develop an interest in any of the girls at my school. I didn’t want to fool myself into thinking I actually had a chance with anyone since I felt that rejection was guaranteed. I had family members and friends asking me if there was any girls at my school that I liked and I always said no. Both thought it was weird and my younger sister even said I’m not normal because I don’t like any girls. But the thing is, I never explained to them that I felt this way because I was assuming rejection as the only outcome. The lack of an explanation made them think something was wrong with me or that I was gay (my sexual orientation got questioned by both friends and family members and they explicitly said they’re asking because I never date or even interact with girls).

I got compliments from women a few times back then too and never reciprocated either, I just said thanks and went about my business. It’s these subtle things that neither of us learned to pick up on clearly. A male role model definitely can make a world of difference. There’s a dating coach who specializes in helping adult male virgins and in interviews he’s given about what he does for coaching, he said that a common theme he noticed among the adult male virgins who would come to him for coaching is that they were absent a father figure or other male role model of some kind and and their mother played the largest part in their upbringing. He said too that mothers don’t impart the best knowledge and advice when it comes to dating for their sons and what usually happens is they train their sons to be nice guys and they finish last obviously. My dad worked 2 jobs so that my mom could stay home with me and my sister, and when I got to that age he gave me no advice when it came to dating women.

The third wheel thing isn’t much better with me. My dad never likes to go anywhere and he’s pretty much a hermit, so my mom makes me go out to dinner or other places she wants to go. What this is called is a son-husband and its awful. This is also a pretty common occurrence when a man is at an adult age and has never dated, his mother will try and step in to fill the non-physical companionship aspect that their son is lacking from having no success with women.