Your girl asks if It's okay to...

[GhostWriter]

How do you respond to your girl if she asks to do something you're not cool with.

Girl: "My friend from out of town wants to take me out for the day, what do you think?"

I know this guy is just trying to bend her over and ram her against the table.

However, I don't want to come off as insecure or jealous. I simply said, you can do what you want, but this guy seems a little too eager to meet up with you.

I know if she does go, then I'll go on a date with another girl.

However, what would be the optimal response?

I definitely showed indifference, but I'm not so sure if that was the best way to go. I don't want her to think that I don't care, yet I don't want her to think that I'm okay with it.

I'm also asking... what's the best way to establish boundaries. This is my first relationship as a man, not a beta. So far things are going great!

However... Are boundaries supposed to be handled with the speak without speaking attitude...

or is this something you would directly communicate to your SO with?

 

[Jitterbug]

Direct communication in this case, and say it in a calm, matter-of-fact tone. This fella is asking your woman on an all-day date, and she's asking you for permission to make a chump out of you. Saying "you can do what you want" was particularly weak sauce. You just failed to set boundary right there. Sure she can do whatever she wants and you can go on a date with another girl, but you failed that sh1t test big time.

That conversation actually went like this:

Her: Can I disrespect you and go out all day with another guy for free attention, meals & drinks and possibly some c0ck?

You: You can do what you want. It seems that he likes you.

 

[Zunder]

You see....I can't imagine a woman that is 100% in to me - ever, and I mean EVER - disrespecting me by even contemplating going out with a other guy "friend" "for a day".

 

[Boilermaker]

you can reframe it, don't mind the pointless jokes.

You: I know I said I was cool with it, but I thought it over and I don't think it's cool.

If she insists and tries to justify, then you counter by bringing up your plans with this other chick. Doing it behind her back; it is just like shooting into free space. Why bother if she's not going to see the hand first?

If your girl asked whether it was OK, she's already into you and she was probably sh!t testing anyway.

Just go back and fix it.

Easy stuff. I do this every day.

 

[Colossus]

Things like this are best handled implicitly, rather than by a direct order.

Listen, your girl is going to do what she wants regardless of the ultimatums you lay down. Accept that as a fact of life, because it wont change from girl to girl.

Here's the frame I follow: Tell her she is free to do what she likes, but you are not ok with said outing. Dont bargain with her. You are not ok with her spending a day with another dude, BUT you are smart enough to realize the harder you try to steer the less control you really have. You lay down your boundaries, then let her decide.

Here is the clinch---when or if she decides to do it anyway, there must be consequences. You dont need to tell her about them beforehand. It's implied when you tell her your boundary.

So...if she does it anyway, go out with another girl. Or break up with her if you see fit. She's into you enough to ASK if you mind, so dont think she's running off onto some c0ck. But dont be naive either. Things like this open doors.

 

[Scars]

My last girlfriend asked this question of me once. She made it sound like he was completely AFC (no threat at all) and it was one of her good friends from back home, so I agreed, only on the condition that I was there to meet him.

So I met the guy and he seemed pretty cool. (Not as AFC as I thought though, carried himself pretty well.) Anyway, half way through the interaction he slips up and mentioned that they had hung out the night before and shared a bottle of vodka together. Instantly, without hesitation, I grab my girl and pull her aside and call her out on her sh!t. As she had not mentioned anything about any of it the night before, in fact, it seemed kind of odd that she would "ok, I'm going to bed. good night, sweet dreams " me oh so early through text. Now it made sense.

Long story short, it ended with me walking out the door and her falling me all the way through the casino (that's where home boy wanted to meet up at) crying and at the same time flipping out telling me I was "over reacting" all the way to the parking lot. She decides to get in my car and I warn her once to get out. She refuses. So I start driving, she is still screaming at me, and then half way to my house she decides to just walk out of my car during a red light (mind you, this girl was also borderline). And I continue driving home. She blows up my phone the rest of the night, all of which I ignored, and that's how we broke up. Turns out, home boy was a girl she used to sleep with in the past. I don't know if they hooked up the night that she lied to me, but it was enough for me to cut her ass off completely.

So basically, her trying to go out on "date" (or whatever she wants to call it) with some dude, a lone, is pretty sketchy. Most likely it's some dude from her past. It could be the guy she is actually considering to replace you with. I would say don't allow it, but she might just lie and do it behind your back anyway. You might be seeing the end fairly soon my friend. Just being real with you.

Good luck.

-Scars

 

[GhostWriter]

Thanks guys, I now know what to do for future references if this type of thing gets asked again (not just with the girl I'm with now).

So I'm guessing the general consensus is to never directly reply, "No, that's not cool with me."

I understand that I failed the sh!t test, but I'm also wondering for the other posters, what would you reply if your SO ever asked?

"Do what you want, but that's not cool with me if you do?"

I know at least enough to not to respond with a yes or no in this case.

 

[iqqi]

It's always a judgement call.

My bf has a girl friend from his hometown whom he hangs out with occasionally. I have a few reasons to trust him on that one, and even though it is definitely going to bother me a tiny bit, it would be silly to flip out over something that I am not logically worried about. That relationship = approved.

And then there is another girl from his job who likes to "hang out with the boys" from time to time, but that one sets my spidey senses all a-tingle. Add in a few strange occurrences that he "didn't notice" (nothing break up worthy but enough to cause an argument) and all that = not approved.

In both cases I am very high alert on the smallest red flag, as I have been cheated on more than once in other relationships.


I also have male friends that my bf is ok with me hanging out with alone, and its always a judgement call. He gives me freedom to make my own choices including a bad choice which would lead to a bad consequence for our relationship, which I value too much to disrespect.

It boils down to trust.

 

[Jitterbug]

A few years ago, there was a poster on this forum called Latino Man. His posts were all removed now, so you can't see them anymore, but he had a really good one that I've always used as part of my define the relationship talk. He said that he always establishes two rules prior to entering any relationship.

1. Respect me.
2. Never contribute to other people's disrespecting me. That is an indirect violation of #1.

And vice versa.

#1 is obvious. #2 is the most often covertly violated by a sh1t-testing woman. By the time she gets to a direct, overt violation of #1, it's long over.

Violation of either means you walk.

Once this has been established, all you have to do is to hint at it. In this case, you only have to say something like: "It is disrespectful for him to ask you, a woman in a relationship, out for a full-day date without ever knowing or even meeting her boyfriend." You frame it as the other guy being disrespectful to you, and if your rule & boundary were clear from the start, she would know that you're covertly saying she is contributing to that disrespect by even contemplating to go out with him, and therefore is on thin ice. Of course you'd have to demonstrate, prior to this, that you are the kind of man who's willing to walk away.

And here's a beauty: when you start a relationship with that kind of strong frame, I doubt you'll ever be sh1t-tested in this manner.

 

[typical]

Next time this happens you counter right away with this line

Sweet babe this gives me time to go have lunch with the cute waitress from "generic restaurant", she's been wanting to make new friends for ages, have fun on your day out.

Now depending on what your woman thinks of you and the above statement can be a complete lie you can then judge if your woman is worth your time and effort.

If she's cool with you going out with another girl its time to ditch your woman if she's not cool with it ask her why its okay for her to go out with a "guy" friend and its not okay for you to go out with a "girl" friend.

She won't be able to explain herself you can then proceed to make it clear why she feels wrong about you going out with another girl and say it doesn't make her idea any valid either. Also state that if she wants to stay with you she has to realize it takes two to tango and any BS from her will cause you to end the relationship and leave her.

After this "talk" it doesn't matter if she stays or leaves or whatever, its time to start looking for another woman because the current woman does not understand what a relatrionship is and is not worth any more of your time.

Stand firm and your woman will know who is the leader in the relationship and will conform to your rules.

EDIT: Iqqi your another lady that still doesn't "get it" your man undoubtly is screwing around behind your back, no man ever hangs out with another woman for a simple "friendship" they always have motives and the same can be said about women. You people need to realize that as opposite sex's we can not ever have a simple "just friends" relationship with another person of the opposite sex it just doesn't work unless the other person is blood related or spouse of a friend of yours or just not your type. The only reason people put up with it is because their spidey senses tell them that meh that guy/gal is no where near my league so my partner would never cheat, your very wrong in this assumption.

If they are smart good looking then there always will be sexual tension, which leads to the fact that your partner doesn't see you as enough for them or they are bored or ___ (insert any excuse), bottom line they don't respect you enough and are already looking for a replacement or trying to find a better "catch".

Set the rules from the start and you should never have to deal with any of these so called sh!t tests, and if and when sh!t tests do start to come your way its time to take a good hard look at yourself then your partner then the relationship and decide the right course of action. Also over reacting is better then not reacting.

Stand Tall Stand Hard Take No Bullsh!t !!!

 

[Buddha_Mind]

I have to agree with the above thoughts on the notion of male/female friends...let's be honest...if male & female friends are young and sexually in their prime...there probably is some underlying sexual tension.

The "guise" of "friends" is nice, but the brain and its biochemicals doesn't really give a sh!t.

Yes, there are levels of respect and "weighed consequence". But every chick I know with a slough of 'guy friends' seriously just gets off on the attention -- it's free male attention without the price of sex. I'm sorry, but I know so few guys who have female friends who don't secretly have massive crushes and secretly mentally conspire against their current relationships in hopes of someday their chance...

I know that sounds dark -- but let's be honest here, really.

Maybe having male/female friends can serve to keep sexual tension in a relationship. Both parties don't see the other as a "sealed deal" -- competition anxiety, I believe, is what we might call it.

But each party may have different levels of will power and acceptable boundaries. IMHO -- if she is asking to go out with her guy friend all day, she's schmoozing for the attention. It would upset me. I'd counter it with my own day out with a female friend. She has 1 male friend -- you get 2. She gets 2 male friends, you get 4 female friends...

 

[Scars]

A few years ago, there was a poster on this forum called Latino Man. His posts were all removed now, so you can't see them anymore, but he had a really good one that I've always used as part of my define the relationship talk. He said that he always establishes two rules prior to entering any relationship.

1. Respect me.
2. Never contribute to other people's disrespecting me. That is an indirect violation of #1.

And vice versa.

#1 is obvious. #2 is the most often covertly violated by a sh1t-testing woman. By the time she gets to a direct, overt violation of #1, it's long over.

Violation of either means you walk.

Once this has been established, all you have to do is to hint at it. In this case, you only have to say something like: "It is disrespectful for him to ask you, a woman in a relationship, out for a full-day date without ever knowing or even meeting her boyfriend." You frame it as the other guy being disrespectful to you, and if your rule & boundary were clear from the start, she would know that you're covertly saying she is contributing to that disrespect by even contemplating to go out with him, and therefore is on thin ice. Of course you'd have to demonstrate, prior to this, that you are the kind of man who's willing to walk away.

And here's a beauty: when you start a relationship with that kind of strong frame, I doubt you'll ever be sh1t-tested in this manner.

This is fvcking genius. I can't see myself getting into a relationship anytime soon, (perhaps I'm too bitter, or I just rationalize to myself as being "smarter" than the average male) but if I ever do, I think it's safe to say I will lay these ground rules down verbatim.

-Scars

 

[zekko]

I'd counter it with my own day out with a female friend. She has 1 male friend -- you get 2. She gets 2 male friends, you get 4 female friends...

And there goes the relationship.

I would make clear my boundaries and what I expect out of an exclusive relationship (assuming this is an exclusive relationship). If she doesn't find it acceptable, then she doesn't qualify for the position.
I'm not into playing games.

No girlfriend of mine is going on some all day date with some other dude, and if she does she won't be my girlfriend for long.

 

[5string]

It's always a judgement call.

My bf has a girl friend from his hometown whom he hangs out with occasionally. I have a few reasons to trust him on that one, and even though it is definitely going to bother me a tiny bit, it would be silly to flip out over something that I am not logically worried about. That relationship = approved.

And then there is another girl from his job who likes to "hang out with the boys" from time to time, but that one sets my spidey senses all a-tingle. Add in a few strange occurrences that he "didn't notice" (nothing break up worthy but enough to cause an argument) and all that = not approved.

In both cases I am very high alert on the smallest red flag, as I have been cheated on more than once in other relationships.


I also have male friends that my bf is ok with me hanging out with alone, and its always a judgement call. He gives me freedom to make my own choices including a bad choice which would lead to a bad consequence for our relationship, which I value too much to disrespect.

It boils down to trust.

iqqi

I have always respected you but I think you have this all wrong. First of all, my wife can do anything she wants if it does not disrespect me or our marriage. Nuff said. But if she wants to go out with a male friend while married to me, it's over. I would never go out with some woman one on one. It leads to the same thing. If there is attraction, it will eventually become sexual. That's the reality. I don't know about the other guys on here, but I always size a woman up from a sexual standpoint. Women do this with men as well. That's just the way it is and we have to be honest with ourselves about it.

With only a few exceptions, men and women cannot be simply friends without some sort of sexual component.

Trust is critical, no doubt, but I think you need to reevaluate your mindset on this issue.

It "bothers" you and you are on "high alert," what does that tell you deep down?

 

[DonJuan_DeRosco]

A lot of good information in this thread!

Also I remember LatinoMan. (I lurked for a long time)

I'm also a believer in, I think it was Roissy's, agree and amplify principle for sh!t tests. Basically agree with what she says and then amplify your response to extremes.

A bad example being something like "Cool, I've been looking for an opportunity to hang out with the female swim team". (bad example I know) But it has to be done in a manner, as stated in previous posts that suggests that if she meets this guy, it is a severe lack of respect for you and you WALK!

Wonder whatever happened to LatinoMan.....

 

[Aaron B]

I would tell her that she if free to do as she wishes, just as I'm free to do as I wish.

I also like to verbalize what she's doing: "So you think its okay for a person in a relationship to spend 1-on-1 time with members of the opposite sex. I find that a little surprising that you wouldn't have a problem with me spending 1-on-1 time with chicks."

In my experience, most women can dish it out but they can't take it. She's gonna be way more jealous when I spend time with other girls than I will be when she spends time with other guys.

Most guys are terrible with women so I don't need to worry or be jealous because even if he gets her 1-on-1 he will probably mess it up. Also I'm so arrogant and confident in how addicted I've gotten her to me that I figure its nearly impossible for another man to take my woman. And if he does, she probably wasn't worth having in the first place.

But when I return the favor by seeing women 1-on-1 she knows I'm irresistible and sexually aggressive so her mind is going to be racing with thoughts that will make her crazy with jealousy.

Lots of girls are really stupid and think the guy actually wants to be friends. I make sure to point out that if it wasn't for his sexual desire for her, he wouldn't be spending time with her in the first place. So if she then decides to spend time with him, its not under the false notion that he "just wants to be my friend."

Also if she tries to frame my reaction as insecurity I call her out on that too. Its a really lazy tactic that women sometimes use to get what they want by framing your reaction negatively by saying something like "Don't be insecure" or "Why are you being so insecure?"

Those are obviously leading statements and questions that are setting up a false premise and I verbally state what she's doing when she does it. Actually I don't, because we've been together 6 years and she's never once accused me of being insecure.

"Why are you being so insecure?"
"Why are you being a c-word?"

"Don't be insecure"
"Don't be a c-word"

Many of the games women get away with are only because we refuse to fight fire with fire.

 

[TopGun2000]

+1 :yes:

A few years ago, there was a poster on this forum called Latino Man. His posts were all removed now, so you can't see them anymore, but he had a really good one that I've always used as part of my define the relationship talk. He said that he always establishes two rules prior to entering any relationship.

1. Respect me.
2. Never contribute to other people's disrespecting me. That is an indirect violation of #1.

And vice versa.

#1 is obvious. #2 is the most often covertly violated by a sh1t-testing woman. By the time she gets to a direct, overt violation of #1, it's long over.

Violation of either means you walk.

Once this has been established, all you have to do is to hint at it. In this case, you only have to say something like: "It is disrespectful for him to ask you, a woman in a relationship, out for a full-day date without ever knowing or even meeting her boyfriend." You frame it as the other guy being disrespectful to you, and if your rule & boundary were clear from the start, she would know that you're covertly saying she is contributing to that disrespect by even contemplating to go out with him, and therefore is on thin ice. Of course you'd have to demonstrate, prior to this, that you are the kind of man who's willing to walk away.

And here's a beauty: when you start a relationship with that kind of strong frame, I doubt you'll ever be sh1t-tested in this manner.

 

[Gdupm6]

This thread has a lot of great information, and it just builds a stronger ground to how my thought process was when i was dating this girl.

The girl i was dating had a lot of guy friends, and she knew i was not ok with her going out one on one with them, especially one that she spoke to frequently ( A 45 year old guy with 2 kids, but has a history of sleeping with women who are married or in relationships). Given those circumstances, i already was uneasy about this guy.

And What she kept saying was that " they are just my friends, i've told you that i have a lot of guy friends from the start, and that there's a line that she would never cross with her "guy friends" blah blah blah

One evening when i invited her out to dinner, she hit me with " oh im going home because i havent spent time with family etc... " so i said ok.. i respected what she had to say. BOOM! 5am i get a phone call from her house phone, and its her mom asking me if her daughter was with me. WHAT A BURN! So later i come to find out that she went out to dinner and drinks with this 45 year old guy!

There was a reason for her lie. Apparently there WAS something going on... Which disgusts me.. but anyway... point is.. LIke a few people said on here already... Theres no " best friends or simple friendships between opposite sexes.

You guys rationalize all you want and convince yourself that they are just friends. But its all BULLSH!T

 

[perseverance]

I would never go near a girl who comes out "I'm one of the lads, nearly all my friends are guys". Sure if a woman has male friends that's acceptable, but what is not acceptable is just them two spending the day together on their own. If it's a gathering of people, fair enough, but not two people on their own. I don't really have any female friends, but if I did and I said to my girlfriend (I wouldn't) I'm just going to spend a day with a female friend, I would expect a negative reaction to that idea. It's got little to do with trust issues on my part, it's more to do with a matter of respect. You can't have a relationship without trust, but you can't have a relationship if there is no respect.

This is no different from your girlfriend sharing a bed with another man and saying "but nothing happened". It's unacceptable and I wouln't tolerate it and neither should you. It's a massive red flag to me and a deal breaker. I'd walk away from a girl like that.

 

[Alex DeLarge]

If the guy isn't as attractive as you and he's obviously creepy, it's probably not a big deal. He probably hits your girlfriend up everyday bothering her to hangout and she just wants to get it over with so he stops annoying the sh1t out of her.

It's like letting your garbage in the kitchen sit there and stink for a few days, eventually it gets annoying and you just need to take it out lol.

Who knows though, I'm just judging this based on the perspective that your girl is really into you and wouldn't even THINK about doing anything behind your back. That's the only time you should ever give up your freedom lol.