Your girl asks if It's okay to...

[Aaron B]

Nearly all relationships feature the woman as the holder of the power. She can do what she wants. We don't need a message board to learn how to let a woman run the show.

Iqqi's reality is that the woman runs the show. Fortunately for us, we get to create our own realities and live them out should we so choose. Who cares what she thinks?

Your example has no merit. But feel free to re-state your already-refuted original assertion in an effort to not have to admit that you are wrong.

 

[Atom Smasher]

Exactly.

My value is greater than hers because I can replace her easier than she can replace me. I'm rare and hard to obtain because I am willing to go against the grain and differentiate myself through my actions from the other men that want to sleep with her (and the men I will compete against for other women should I need to).

Once again, the relationship is HER REWARD. I made her earn it. Me agreeing to restrict myself to one vagina when I have the ability to access many is a BIG DAMN DEAL and she must appreciate and respect it as such.

If you guys aren't coming from that frame, it really doesn't matter if she decides to spend time with her guy friends or not because at the end of the day there is nothing you can do because her value is higher than yours and you can't easily replace her and you are reluctant to start this process anew with other women. She is disrespecting you, and you are disrespecting yourself because you aren't willing to work to make yourself into the guy who can get a bunch of vaginas and not just this particular vagina.

I personally don't care if people on a message board consider my actions "tit for tat." I don't live my life based on how it will play on a message board. Me seeing other girls and spending less time with her is her punishment for disrespecting me in this fashion. And its only the first salvo. If she persists in this unacceptable behavior, we won't be in an exclusive relationship for very long.

Her seeing other guys is unacceptable because I say so. It's not a standard that needs to be justified to others. I'm the leader and boss of the relationship and I determine what I will or won't tolerate. I don't need to have discussions on message boards to find out if its okay to set a standard for myself and my relationship and demand that she comply by returning the favor when she suddenly decides that I should be willing to share my access to her time and attention with other men. If she doesn't know ahead of time that I will react with "tit for tat" then I've done a poor job of communicating it to her up until this point.

My woman wouldn't dream of spending time with other men because she knows for a fact that there are other women who would love to spend time with me. If you don't have a woman like this in your life its your fault for settling for less. I guess some guys have to take what they can get though (or feel like they do anyway).

One of the all-time best posts.

Guys, understand that when your girl asks about spending a day or having lunch with an ex or another man, she is going on a DATE.

It is never, under any circumstances, a harmless thing for a woman to do this, and just the fact that it's on the table is an indicator of serious problems.

There should be an understanding at the beginning of the relationship - No seeing other men under any circumstances whatsoever. As has been abundantly stated here (and predictably and weakly challenged by our very own self-delusional woman), there is no such thing as "just friends". A woman needs and expects the man to set the boundaries, just like a child needs a parent to set boundaries for them. They have the emotional makeup of children and need this guidance from their man.

This setting of boundaries is a deep-seated need inside of her and although she will find herself protesting (because of media pressures), deep down she will admire and respect you for being man enough to lay down the rules.

Men, never allow your woman to go out on a date with another man, for that is truly what the get-together is... a date.

 

[cordoncordon]

For a gf or wife to want to go on an all day thing with another man defies all logic unless....she and the other man have interest in each other. I can tell you that my gf would not even dream of doing such a thing, and nor could I imagine her even thinking it. It's just a bizarre thing to do if two people are in a happy relationship with each other and are content.

Hell no should you let her do it. And if she does, break up. Hell you should break up with her just because she mentioned it. Fvck break up with her because she even THOUGHT of doing it.

And iqqi, your man should break up with you for what you posted!

 

[Buddha_Mind]

I was just using iqqi as an example. Her point of view is fairly common among women. I know a good many women who are in relationships and maintain numerous male friends. Their boyfriends/husbands are just fine with it. That's their right, but I think they're asking for trouble.

^yes^ It all wreaks of sexual tension...

 

[zekko]

Your example has no merit. But feel free to re-state your already-refuted original assertion in an effort to not have to admit that you are wrong.

I don't get your point.
I simply said many women hold the point of view that it's okay to have male friends while in a relationship. Obviously I disagree with them.
What am I wrong about?

I agree with Atom Smasher. You have to establish boundaries with these women.

 

[Atom Smasher]

She's asking you to lay down the law and to define the boundaries of the relationship. Doing so is more powerful than being seen as "insecure". In the context of this threat that's just a label people use to shame your decision. Stand firm and she may piss and moan, but she'll respect you more for it in the long run. Since you didn't, you just failed in a major way. This is the sorta thing where she might cheat and justify it by thinking you didn't fight for her. <--chick logic


My version goes something like this:

Girl: "My friend from out of town wants to take me out for the day, what do you think?"

Me: "I'm not comfortable with you being alone all day with some guy I don't know. How would you feel if some girl I used to know all the sudden wanted to start hanging out again?"
Note: "How would you feel if..." is my pitch perfected method of getting women to see your side of things. Just reverse the situation and get her thinking how it would be if the shoe was on the other foot. Don't be afraid of changing the circumstances a bit to better make your point, just make sure it flies under the radar if at all possible.

Girl: "I probably wouldn't like it." (or some iteration of disagreeing with it)

Me: "I'll tell you what, if you still want to hang out that's fine, but I'll tag along. That way everyone is happy, and if he's not, well, that tells you what he was really about."

Nutz,

You had me at "Hello", but then I read your last line. I must respectfully disagree. I don't see how offering to "tag along" (a weak phrase in its own right) is laying down the law.

 

[Buddha_Mind]

I would agree that "tagging along" is placing the frame in her hand (essentially saying: okay, you are in control I submit to your agenda and will place myself amidst the running to spend time with you").

I myself, would have immense trouble allowing a girl I'm with to have 1:1 day with her "male buddies"...some might say this is "insecure" or even some might say "possessive" but I have to ask, is it really? I'm not forcefully making anyone do anything -- more than anything, I'm saying, it makes me incredible uncomfortable because I'm not naive to the nature of men and "friendships" -- I woulds say even in Iqqi's situation that of course her BF and that chick have some undertones there -- whether they've acted on it or not -- or take the guise of friendship, doesn't mean that there's still not some emotions within that. I just don't see how any self-respecting man with a penis wants to be friends with a bunch of girls -- 9/10 one person is madly in love with the other, and that other person is the blockage to any intimacy or relationship -- yet often the other is kept around either to not hurt their feelings *because of the great friendship*...

From my life:

1. I had one good female friend who I definitely was in love with. This was during my major AFC days (I'm maybe a mild-light AFC right now..stil in the works gents) but goddamn she would fvck with my head. More or less, I could have been sexual with her, pursued her from the stance of "lets take it slow" and got completely friendzoned -- yet there was always some tension there and she even revealed how she'd have "more than just friends feelings" for me --- but then bounce back into friendship...it was all a mind game and after years with this girl as my friend I came to the conclusion: fvck this. I'm done with female buddies. I'm not saying I'm an @ss -- I'll be friends with my friend's/relative's girlfriends, I'll be nice to her friends, I'll be myself and enjoy their company -- but the only 1:1 texts/hang-outs/correspondence I make with females these days is strictly in regards to those that are helping me get better what I want...otherwise we are stuck endlessly in losing situations. Some might call me a 'bad guy' because I specifically removed a female friend from my life because of her inability to ever want more than friendship, but why? I was tired of getting mindfvcked by lovey dovey post cards and gifts from her with nothing on the other end -- the second I tried to get closer she'd run.

2. My recent last LTR in the very beginning was "hanging out" with an ex-bf and a complete AFC dude who had a major crush on her. They would get together and make music at her house. This girl is an AW for certain -- I told her it made me incredibly uncomfortable. I told her this dude was schmoozing all over her and how couldn't she really "see" her ex-bf was looking to get some side-action and this AFCchump was looking for his chance....after this discussion 2 things happened:

(a) she stopped hanging out with both of them in any 1:1 situation.
(b) she then tried to use this as leverage against me later saying "I don't feel free"...that my feelings of "jealousy and insecurity" made HER feel that way too (I was working in an outdoor job where I had to live on-site with a male and female roommmate) -- and my living with a woman to her, was a complete double standard..

But the difference was not only did I not enjoy living with that woman myself (she was incredibly annoying), but was forced to via work, and third never spent any 1:1 time with her...

She on the other hand, was actively seeking and entertaining these AFC dudes.

When a woman is actively seeking and encouraging outside male attention during a relationship = bad bad bad mojo. And they will try and make you seem like a possessive douche, but seriously come on -- if the other side of the coin was flipped MOST women would be incredibly insecure. And they OUGHT to.

Working with other dudes, being around other guys because of friend's boyfriends, etc -- that's one thing. But all of my experience is telling me that if some girl has lots of guy friends she is just schmoozing in the attention -- whether they want to admit to themselves what is really going on or not is another story -- half of these females brainwash themselves and convince themselves that they've got all these really great guy friends and sure, nothing about their vagina or the shimmer in their hair or their sexuality has anything to do with it, "just friends" she says.

You know how my situation ended for me? Bad. What I should have done is (1) notice she's got lots of guy friends, and say (2) say, "I'm sorry, I'm looking for a girl whose willing to be responsible entering into a relationship...you hanging out with other dudes who are trying to court you ain't going to jive"...but alas I was hooked on the pootang.

OP -- this ain't cool man.
If she "totally gets it" why you feel that way, why the fvck doesn't she respect your position/feelings and cut off ties from her ex?

She is going to self-sabotage any relationship with a good man by hanging onto this dude emotionally. She doesn't get it.

And that's not fair to YOU. Are you being emotionally available for her? IE --not carrying past suitors or relationships? If you are emotionally free for HER, she ought to be on the same page. Otherwise you are short changing yourself. As good looking and fun as she is (lots of girls can be both of these yet still entirely psych0 and not good relationship material) she is hanging on man. YOU deserve better than that -- and if you caught her given her attractiveness, there is no doubt there is an equally attractive woman out there who will be more mentally available for you.

 

[Gdupm6]

Buddha, I couldn't have said it better myself. My past situation was very similar. This girl that I was dating, told me that she had a lot of guy friends, and the reason for that is that they are less drama than girls blah blah blah..

Me and her hit it off really well, but ill cut it short. One of her "guy friends" is a 45 year old guy who is separated with 2 kids. This guy is in her nursing class, and had fallen in love with one of the girls in class WHO IS MARRIED. So this girl ends up cheating with her husband with this 45 year old guy, and it later turns into a mess where the girl was telling him that they couldnt see each other anymore, because the husband was furious etc..

So the 45 year old guy would talk to my girl about what had happened etc and get advice because the girl i was dating and the girl that the 45 year old fell in love with were close friends apparently.

Here's where the fun starts.

I asked my girl if she wanted to grab dinner, we were both hungry. She tells me " Oh i haven't been home much lately, id want to spent time with my parents etc.." So i respected what she said.

I get a text from her saying " did u eat'? I responded no and asked her if she ate and she said her father made taco's at home.

Her answers were very short so it just seemed kind of odd because they never are like that. So i asked " are you busy" ? She says " yea with mom and dad". So i fall asleep... my house phone rings at 5am in the morning! And guess who it is? Her mom asking me if her daughter is with me. I was like uhhh no? Her mom said she hadn't been home from work.

I call her phone a few times, she doesn't pick up. I knew i would see her the next day so i waited for that. Finally i asked what the hell happened last night, she said that she had went out for dinner and drinks with that 45 year old guy. Pretty much refused my proposal for dinner and took on his dinner date. And she says the reason she didn't tell me about it was because she was trying to "avoid a situation" and knew that i was uncomfortable.

Now tell me if that's not a bunch of bull crap...

If they are "just friends" why did she have to lie to me about it???

What were these so called " friends" doing since 7:30pm ( when she gets off work ) until 5 - 6am in the morning?

Im sorry but fvck all that bull****, theres no such thing as female/male "friends"

 

[Nutz]

Nutz,

You had me at "Hello", but then I read your last line. I must respectfully disagree. I don't see how offering to "tag along" (a weak phrase in its own right) is laying down the law.

I should have clarified, that's a method of calling her bluff. If she doesn't want you there then, or is in any way shaken by your offer, then IMO she just tipped her cards. The nice thign about this is it comes off as accommodating as if you're willing to compromise, so it maintains a kind of plausible deniability, that you were being reasonable. When you go to your female friends afterwords you don't look like an insecure jealous boyfriend, just that you have standards and didn't think it was appropriate her running around with guys you don't know.

Here's another more straight to the point version:


Girl: "My friend from out of town wants to take me out for the day, what do you think?"

Me: "I'm not comfortable with you being alone all day with some guy I don't know. How would you feel if some girl I used to know all the sudden wanted to start hanging out again?"
Note: "How would you feel if..." is my pitch perfected method of getting women to see your side of things. Just reverse the situation and get her thinking how it would be if the shoe was on the other foot. Don't be afraid of changing the circumstances a bit to better make your point, just make sure it flies under the radar if at all possible.

Girl: "I probably wouldn't like it." (or some iteration of disagreeing with it)

Me: "Glad we're in agreement. I couldn't date someone that didn't see how inappropriate it is for a woman in a relationship to be hanging out with some other guy all day like that."

 

[Single4Life]

Buddha, I couldn't have said it better myself. My past situation was very similar. This girl that I was dating, told me that she had a lot of guy friends, and the reason for that is that they are less drama than girls blah blah blah..

Me and her hit it off really well, but ill cut it short. One of her "guy friends" is a 45 year old guy who is separated with 2 kids. This guy is in her nursing class, and had fallen in love with one of the girls in class WHO IS MARRIED. So this girl ends up cheating with her husband with this 45 year old guy, and it later turns into a mess where the girl was telling him that they couldnt see each other anymore, because the husband was furious etc..

So the 45 year old guy would talk to my girl about what had happened etc and get advice because the girl i was dating and the girl that the 45 year old fell in love with were close friends apparently.

Here's where the fun starts.

I asked my girl if she wanted to grab dinner, we were both hungry. She tells me " Oh i haven't been home much lately, id want to spent time with my parents etc.." So i respected what she said.

I get a text from her saying " did u eat'? I responded no and asked her if she ate and she said her father made taco's at home.

Her answers were very short so it just seemed kind of odd because they never are like that. So i asked " are you busy" ? She says " yea with mom and dad". So i fall asleep... my house phone rings at 5am in the morning! And guess who it is? Her mom asking me if her daughter is with me. I was like uhhh no? Her mom said she hadn't been home from work.

I call her phone a few times, she doesn't pick up. I knew i would see her the next day so i waited for that. Finally i asked what the hell happened last night, she said that she had went out for dinner and drinks with that 45 year old guy. Pretty much refused my proposal for dinner and took on his dinner date. And she says the reason she didn't tell me about it was because she was trying to "avoid a situation" and knew that i was uncomfortable.

Now tell me if that's not a bunch of bull crap...

If they are "just friends" why did she have to lie to me about it???

What were these so called " friends" doing since 7:30pm ( when she gets off work ) until 5 - 6am in the morning?

Im sorry but fvck all that bull****, theres no such thing as female/male "friends"

I am so sorry this happened to you bro. It's like a knife to the heart, ain't it?

This is why I will never ever allow myself to care about a woman in "that" way again. I'm done with it. Some similar things happened to me too, I caught her too, etc....


Anyway, as I said before, to the OP : If it were me, I'd pull out of the relationship.

 

[Single4Life]

oh, also, you should feel lucky.

At least she's the type to tell you about it.

So many girls do this behind your back and lie about it. You found out ahead of time.

Consider yourself lucky.

 

[Gdupm6]

Single4life... I do feel lucky.. It was very hard for me to get over it because I really liked this girl.. But things happen for a reason. Like you said, I will never be the same with a woman again... Experiences like this just make u into a colder person...

And yea for some odd reason she did tell me.. I found that interesting because like you said, women do this daily and don't say a word..

But I believe the only reason she told me was because she HAD TO, because her mom pretty much blew her cover by calling me at 5am asking me if she was with me.. I bet u if her mom didn't call, she would never have told me and would give me some bs like she fell asleep or something.... Tsk tsk tsk....

 

[TopGun2000]

So I guess you dumped her immediately after that incident? :trouble:

Buddha, I couldn't have said it better myself. My past situation was very similar. This girl that I was dating, told me that she had a lot of guy friends, and the reason for that is that they are less drama than girls blah blah blah..

Me and her hit it off really well, but ill cut it short. One of her "guy friends" is a 45 year old guy who is separated with 2 kids. This guy is in her nursing class, and had fallen in love with one of the girls in class WHO IS MARRIED. So this girl ends up cheating with her husband with this 45 year old guy, and it later turns into a mess where the girl was telling him that they couldnt see each other anymore, because the husband was furious etc..

So the 45 year old guy would talk to my girl about what had happened etc and get advice because the girl i was dating and the girl that the 45 year old fell in love with were close friends apparently.

Here's where the fun starts.

I asked my girl if she wanted to grab dinner, we were both hungry. She tells me " Oh i haven't been home much lately, id want to spent time with my parents etc.." So i respected what she said.

I get a text from her saying " did u eat'? I responded no and asked her if she ate and she said her father made taco's at home.

Her answers were very short so it just seemed kind of odd because they never are like that. So i asked " are you busy" ? She says " yea with mom and dad". So i fall asleep... my house phone rings at 5am in the morning! And guess who it is? Her mom asking me if her daughter is with me. I was like uhhh no? Her mom said she hadn't been home from work.

I call her phone a few times, she doesn't pick up. I knew i would see her the next day so i waited for that. Finally i asked what the hell happened last night, she said that she had went out for dinner and drinks with that 45 year old guy. Pretty much refused my proposal for dinner and took on his dinner date. And she says the reason she didn't tell me about it was because she was trying to "avoid a situation" and knew that i was uncomfortable.

Now tell me if that's not a bunch of bull crap...

If they are "just friends" why did she have to lie to me about it???

What were these so called " friends" doing since 7:30pm ( when she gets off work ) until 5 - 6am in the morning?

Im sorry but fvck all that bull****, theres no such thing as female/male "friends"

 

[TopGun2000]

I am so sorry this happened to you bro. It's like a knife to the heart, ain't it?

This is why I will never ever allow myself to care about a woman in "that" way again. I'm done with it. Some similar things happened to me too, I caught her too, etc....


Anyway, as I said before, to the OP : If it were me, I'd pull out of the relationship.

you still can care about a woman but she needs to prove herself worthwhile first.

 

[GhostWriter]

From what I've learned on so suave...

Speak without speaking.

Direct communication

She decided not to go on her own accord. In fact, another situation arose where she wanted to invite a guy friend when we were out to lunch.

She asked me if it was okay since he was conveniently a block down.

I stood my ground and said, "Listen, tell him that we're having a terrific lunch together alone. We don't want to be bothered right now, he can do his own damn thing."

She loved it and actually handed me her phone. I placed it on the other side of the table and the rest of the day went great.

I also started hanging out with some female friends that I know dig me. Now she's going bonkers.

The only problem I have with direct communication is that I don't want to leave an opening for a girl to say you're jealous/insecure/controlling...

Have any of you ever tried to talk to a woman about respect/integrity/honesty...

They aren't familiar with any of that sh!t.

Regardless, the next time something like this comes up I'm going to lay down the law hard.

Then I'm going to reinforce my words with actions. I think some situations call for one method or the other. However, for now I will be using both.

Thanks guy.

 

[zekko]

Me: "I'm not comfortable with you being alone all day with some guy I don't know. How would you feel if some girl I used to know all the sudden wanted to start hanging out again?"

Nutz, just out of curiousity, what would your response be if she said:
"I wouldn't have a problem with it at all. I'm not jealous or insecure."?

Me: "I'll tell you what, if you still want to hang out that's fine, but I'll tag along. That way everyone is happy, and if he's not, well, that tells you what he was really about."

The only problem I have with this is what the hell do I want to hang out with this guy for? YMMV.

I think some situations call for one method or the other. However, for now I will be using both.

I agree both methods can work.
I prefer the direct method for myself because:
a) I don't like to waste time playing games. If I wanted to be hanging around with other girls I would be doing it instead of being exclusive with her.
b) I honestly don't give a crap if she calls me jealous or whatever. If she wants to play those games she can go home. If she can't buy into my way of thinking on this she's of no use to me anyway.

 

[5string]

For a gf or wife to want to go on an all day thing with another man defies all logic unless....she and the other man have interest in each other. I can tell you that my gf would not even dream of doing such a thing, and nor could I imagine her even thinking it. It's just a bizarre thing to do if two people are in a happy relationship with each other and are content.

Hell no should you let her do it. And if she does, break up. Hell you should break up with her just because she mentioned it. Fvck break up with her because she even THOUGHT of doing it.

And iqqi, your man should break up with you for what you posted!

cordon

Please tell your GF to stop calling me!

 

[perseverance]

She decided not to go on her own accord. In fact, another situation arose where she wanted to invite a guy friend when we were out to lunch.

She asked me if it was okay since he was conveniently a block down.

I stood my ground and said, "Listen, tell him that we're having a terrific lunch together alone. We don't want to be bothered right now, he can do his own damn thing."

She loved it and actually handed me her phone. I placed it on the other side of the table and the rest of the day went great.

It sounds like she needs a babysitter, not a boyfriend. It appears she doesn't have a thing called 'self control'.

I also started hanging out with some female friends that I know dig me. Now she's going bonkers.

Oh goody, let's play games with her. Women always win at that, it's just not worth it, but you and her are probably too ignorant to see that.

The only problem I have with direct communication is that I don't want to leave an opening for a girl to say you're jealous/insecure/controlling...

Have any of you ever tried to talk to a woman about respect/integrity/honesty...

They aren't familiar with any of that sh!t.

Why would I talk to a woman about these things? If she doesn't know these things then her parents haven't raised her properly. It's not my responsibility to teach her the basics of life.

Regardless, the next time something like this comes up I'm going to lay down the law hard.

Then I'm going to reinforce my words with actions. I think some situations call for one method or the other. However, for now I will be using both.

Thanks guy.

Good. Stand your ground. However, if she ejects because she doesn't want to be fathered anymore, then don't come on here crying.

 

[Nutz]

Nutz, just out of curiousity, what would your response be if she said:
"I wouldn't have a problem with it at all. I'm not jealous or insecure."?

Reframe, reframe, reframe!

"Jealousy doesn't have anything to do with it, its a matter of what's appropriate behavior for someone in a relationship. You mean to tell me you wouldn't have a problem with me going out drinking with a girl you don't know, but that obviously likes me, and then crashing at her house because she got me too drunk to drive home?"

 

[iqqi]

And iqqi, your man should break up with you for what you posted!

?

What part.

I basically said that he has girl friends, and I have guy friends. He doesn't hang out with anyone who makes me uncomfortable, and vice versa. We communicate, and have a decent level of trust.

I've always had friends of both the female sex, and the male sex, my entire life. There are some things that I like in my male friendships that I don't get from my female relationships. Men are generally cooler, more laid back, less insecure, and not as dramatic. I make male friends easier than female friends because of this, but I'd say the ratio is pretty even in regards to how many of each I have.

I do think it is sad that many of this forum see the concept as alien. I think they are missing out on a lot by not being able to have female friends. I understand the hesitation at having a girlfriend with male friends, obviously you are going to think the worse because you are men and you know men think with their d!cks.

It all has to do with trust and respect, but I know that is also a new subject for a lot of guys on here.

Thinking about it, respect is a big reason I am able to have male friendships. I definitely assert myself and what is and isn't going to go down... if necessary. I don't lead anyone on, and I'm not the insecure type to flirt to keep men near me. I'm "one of the boys", but at the same time I know I am sexy, and to be honest just like girls like having attractive male friends, I think my male friends like having an attractive female friend. It definitely has it's perks.