Your girl asks if It's okay to...

[Buddha_Mind]

G0ddamn this forum is a good read.

Zekko -- I was being sort of cynically humorous...I agree with what you've said about boundaries. I respect that position and your mentality a great deal. There shouldn't be BS or games on either end.

 

[Aaron B]

There shouldn't be BS or games on either end.

yes but that isn't reality

reality is that almost all women play games by default

 

[typical]

yes but that isn't reality

reality is that almost all women play games by default

Exactly after you have dated many many many women you will find out all the little tricks they use to try and test you. After around 10 girls or so your gonna stop putting up with these tests and start to counter test the girls or make clear rules from the get go on what you expect.

You learn from experience, and you evolve into a guy that suddenly dumps girls out of the blue because you've judged her character over the last few weeks/ months and have worked out she ain't the right type of girl and you move on.

Because in the end its better to be alone instead of a one-sided relationship and you can always find another girl to replace the current one.

 

[iqqi]

iqqi

I have always respected you but I think you have this all wrong. First of all, my wife can do anything she wants if it does not disrespect me or our marriage. Nuff said. But if she wants to go out with a male friend while married to me, it's over. I would never go out with some woman one on one. It leads to the same thing. If there is attraction, it will eventually become sexual. That's the reality. I don't know about the other guys on here, but I always size a woman up from a sexual standpoint. Women do this with men as well. That's just the way it is and we have to be honest with ourselves about it.

With only a few exceptions, men and women cannot be simply friends without some sort of sexual component.

Trust is critical, no doubt, but I think you need to reevaluate your mindset on this issue.

It "bothers" you and you are on "high alert," what does that tell you deep down?

5string, the "high alert" thing was with one person, and it was over things that my boyfriend did not notice, not to mention it was her + my boyfriend + 3 other male colleagues. Whether or not he understands what my issue is, he doesn't hang out in that setting any longer.

As for his childhood female friend, I'm really not bothered by it nor am I going to be. I don't even know what she looks like, she is probably not bad looking. However, my boyfriend is a saint and is even more moral than I am. I also do not have trust issues with a guy being just friends with a girl, as many of my best friends have been male.

I have always felt badly for the guys on this site who have such a strong aversion to male/female friendships. It's like the mindset of a person who thinks dogs and cats cannot get along. They can! They do!

Haven't you guys seen "Friends"? Or Buffy the Vampire Slayer? Or Scooby Doo?

For the most part, I think if you had a healthy social circle growing up, then you had friends of the opposite sex, and you understand that men and women CAN be "just friends".

Maybe I am just lucky. I have a relationship that truly has trust, and I also have amazing friends, some lifelong, some new, who are male.

 

[Nutz]

How do you respond to your girl if she asks to do something you're not cool with.

Girl: "My friend from out of town wants to take me out for the day, what do you think?"

She's asking you to lay down the law and to define the boundaries of the relationship. Doing so is more powerful than being seen as "insecure". In the context of this threat that's just a label people use to shame your decision. Stand firm and she may piss and moan, but she'll respect you more for it in the long run. Since you didn't, you just failed in a major way. This is the sorta thing where she might cheat and justify it by thinking you didn't fight for her. <--chick logic


My version goes something like this:

Girl: "My friend from out of town wants to take me out for the day, what do you think?"

Me: "I'm not comfortable with you being alone all day with some guy I don't know. How would you feel if some girl I used to know all the sudden wanted to start hanging out again?"
Note: "How would you feel if..." is my pitch perfected method of getting women to see your side of things. Just reverse the situation and get her thinking how it would be if the shoe was on the other foot. Don't be afraid of changing the circumstances a bit to better make your point, just make sure it flies under the radar if at all possible.

Girl: "I probably wouldn't like it." (or some iteration of disagreeing with it)

Me: "I'll tell you what, if you still want to hang out that's fine, but I'll tag along. That way everyone is happy, and if he's not, well, that tells you what he was really about."

 

[typical]

5string, the "high alert" thing was with one person, and it was over things that my boyfriend did not notice, not to mention it was her + my boyfriend + 3 other male colleagues. Whether or not he understands what my issue is, he doesn't hang out in that setting any longer.

As for his childhood female friend, I'm really not bothered by it nor am I going to be. I don't even know what she looks like, she is probably not bad looking. However, my boyfriend is a saint and is even more moral than I am. I also do not have trust issues with a guy being just friends with a girl, as many of my best friends have been male.

I have always felt badly for the guys on this site who have such a strong aversion to male/female friendships. It's like the mindset of a person who thinks dogs and cats cannot get along. They can! They do!

Haven't you guys seen "Friends"? Or Buffy the Vampire Slayer? Or Scooby Doo?

For the most part, I think if you had a healthy social circle growing up, then you had friends of the opposite sex, and you understand that men and women CAN be "just friends".

Maybe I am just lucky. I have a relationship that truly has trust, and I also have amazing friends, some lifelong, some new, who are male.

Yea real life is so akin to a tv sitcom or cartoon. Woman you are so deluded. If you ever took the time out to sit down and really think about things you would get our point of view.

And those mates of yours are most likely playing the waiting game for you to come around or have been friendzoned and can't see it for the life of them and YOU just love the male attention nothing more. Which leads me to ask why do you need the contant attention of men is the attention of your man not enough to satisfy you ??

Trust me on this if a man is deemed a "catch" every single woman in his social circle will try her hardest to hook up with him be it friend or ex gf it doesn't matter, the same goes for a woman. But if they have flaws they are placed into a "holding zone" till you need a quick fix or they sort themselves out and become something.

Now my close friends are all guys you want to know why ? Its because we like to jump out of planes/ top of buildings, go camping, hunting, go to the strip club to point and laugh at the girls trying to get you to buy a lapdance etc. They are my true friends because we all love to do things not sit around all day and talk about rubbish, even the girl mates that are into "doing" stuff are only doing it because they fancy one of the guys but would much rather sit down and talk and gossip.

I doubt any girl could keep up with the things we do and thats why they don't make good friends. In short guys like to "do" things while girls like to "talk" about doing things, huge difference.

 

[zekko]

I also like to verbalize what she's doing: "So you think its okay for a person in a relationship to spend 1-on-1 time with members of the opposite sex. I find that a little surprising that you wouldn't have a problem with me spending 1-on-1 time with chicks."

Problem is, there are actually a lot of girls who wouldn't have a problem with their guy spending 1-on-1 time with female friends. As long as they get to go hang out with their guy friends. Women are taught that this is normal. Look at iqqi, she's not only cool with it, she wouldn't have it any other way.

For the most part, I think if you had a healthy social circle growing up, then you had friends of the opposite sex, and you understand that men and women CAN be "just friends".

Of course men and women can be just friends. I'm friendly with women every day. Some of them I would bang (if we were both available), some I wouldn't.

The problem is that if you set the precedent that 1-on-1 "dates" between them are okay, you are asking for temptation and trouble. Maybe the first "friend" is really just platonic. Then the next guy she goes out with she is mildy curious about sexually.
Then the next guy comes along who is hitting on her and asking her to dinner, she figures "Why not? We'll just go out as friends". Then if something happens it's just an accident.

Look at the tit for tat reactions from some of the guys here. If she goes out with a guy, I'll go out with a girl. Natural reaction. At some point this can become a war over who can go out with the sexiest "friend".

This type of thing is practically like an open marriage and a ticking time bomb waiting to happen. No thanks.

I have a friend who had this type of marriage. She was always bringing home guys from work and having lunch with them and such. Eventually she filed for divorce, and as soon as he was kicked out the door, guess what? She moved one of her guy "friends" in.

 

[5string]

Problem is, there are actually a lot of girls who wouldn't have a problem with their guy spending 1-on-1 time with female friends. As long as they get to go hang out with their guy friends. Women are taught that this is normal. Look at iqqi, she's not only cool with it, she wouldn't have it any other way.


Of course men and women can be just friends. I'm friendly with women every day. Some of them I would bang (if we were both available), some I wouldn't.

The problem is that if you set the precedent that 1-on-1 "dates" between them are okay, you are asking for temptation and trouble. Maybe the first "friend" is really just platonic. Then the next guy she goes out with she is mildy curious about sexually.
Then the next guy comes along who is hitting on her and asking her to dinner, she figures "Why not? We'll just go out as friends". Then if something happens it's just an accident.

Look at the tit for tat reactions from some of the guys here. If she goes out with a guy, I'll go out with a girl. Natural reaction. At some point this can become a war over who can go out with the sexiest "friend".

This type of thing is practically like an open marriage and a ticking time bomb waiting to happen. No thanks.

I have a friend who had this type of marriage. She was always bringing home guys from work and having lunch with them and such. Eventually she filed for divorce, and as soon as he was kicked out the door, guess what? She moved one of her guy "friends" in.

See iqqi? What zekko said is what I'm talking about. If a person isolates themself with one of the opposite sex, do you not think to yourself, "I would or would not sleep with him or her?" Be honest now. It's the mating dance at it's finest.

You can say all you want about your bf being a moral stand up guy, and I'm sure he is, but what's going through his mind is a different thing. If matters escalate, he may follow through with his desires. You might as well under the circumstances. It's human nature.

I'll tell you, I have been tempted many a time. I have had a few hotties throw themselves at me but I don't go there. I don't because:

1)I respect my wife and my marriage
2)Mrs.5string will give it to me any time I wish and love it

You cannot tell me if you have a relatively attractive "guy friend", that you don't think what it might be like to sleep with him in the back of your mind. Even just a little bit?

 

[zekko]

You cannot tell me if you have a relatively attractive "guy friend", that you don't think what it might be like to sleep with him in the back of your mind. Even just a little bit?

I definitely know girls where the hotter/sexier the guy, the more they like having him as a friend. Their attitude seems to be along the lines of "Well, of course he's hot. You don't think I'd be friends with someone who didn't have good attributes, do you?".

But there does seem to be a big line between a hot sexy friend of the opposite sex and an unattractive one, doesn't there? It's easy to say "Oh, I don't think about him/her that way" about the unnattractive one.

And sometimes the friend is an ex-lover and they've stayed close and kept in touch.
I have no problem with any of these as long as they don't cross the 1-on-1 boundary. Because that, to me, is a date.

 

[Aaron B]

Problem is, there are actually a lot of girls who wouldn't have a problem with their guy spending 1-on-1 time with female friends. As long as they get to go hang out with their guy friends. Women are taught that this is normal. Look at iqqi, she's not only cool with it, she wouldn't have it any other way.

personally I'm not going to enter into an exclusive relationship with a woman who has such a low interest level in me as to not have a problem with me seeing other women (and a woman who wants to continue to see other men)

different stroke for different folks I suppose

the way I see it, men are perfectly happy ****ing and chucking a bunch of women and me agreeing to limit myself to just one vagina is a damn big deal and not something i'm going to give to a woman who hasn't earned it through her actions

If I'm going to keep seeing other women 1-on-1 and she's going to keep seeing men, why not have multiple girlfriends instead of just one?

If you want a relationship where you see other women and she sees other men, I have no problem with that. But that's not for me.

Then again, if that was the arrangements under which the relationship was entered into, this wouldn't be an issue would it? It would be the normal course of that relationship.

 

[Nutz]

Look at the tit for tat reactions from some of the guys here. If she goes out with a guy, I'll go out with a girl. Natural reaction. At some point this can become a war over who can go out with the sexiest "friend".

This type of thing is practically like an open marriage and a ticking time bomb waiting to happen. No thanks.

You're forgetting about the effect of being in demand and having abundance causes. My gf knows I have women interested in me, some of them are "just friends". I completely flipped the script in this sense. Her being weary of the girls I know makes her see things from my perspective I discussed earlier because I am in demand. If you don't have that then you can't play this card and it might escalate like you said.

 

[Aaron B]

You're forgetting about the effect of being in demand and having abundance causes. My gf knows I have women interested in me, some of them are "just friends". I completely flipped the script in this sense. Her being weary of the girls I know makes her see things from my perspective I discussed earlier because I am in demand. If you don't have that then you can't play this card and it might escalate like you said.

Exactly.

My value is greater than hers because I can replace her easier than she can replace me. I'm rare and hard to obtain because I am willing to go against the grain and differentiate myself through my actions from the other men that want to sleep with her (and the men I will compete against for other women should I need to).

Once again, the relationship is HER REWARD. I made her earn it. Me agreeing to restrict myself to one vagina when I have the ability to access many is a BIG DAMN DEAL and she must appreciate and respect it as such.

If you guys aren't coming from that frame, it really doesn't matter if she decides to spend time with her guy friends or not because at the end of the day there is nothing you can do because her value is higher than yours and you can't easily replace her and you are reluctant to start this process anew with other women. She is disrespecting you, and you are disrespecting yourself because you aren't willing to work to make yourself into the guy who can get a bunch of vaginas and not just this particular vagina.

I personally don't care if people on a message board consider my actions "tit for tat." I don't live my life based on how it will play on a message board. Me seeing other girls and spending less time with her is her punishment for disrespecting me in this fashion. And its only the first salvo. If she persists in this unacceptable behavior, we won't be in an exclusive relationship for very long.

Her seeing other guys is unacceptable because I say so. It's not a standard that needs to be justified to others. I'm the leader and boss of the relationship and I determine what I will or won't tolerate. I don't need to have discussions on message boards to find out if its okay to set a standard for myself and my relationship and demand that she comply by returning the favor when she suddenly decides that I should be willing to share my access to her time and attention with other men. If she doesn't know ahead of time that I will react with "tit for tat" then I've done a poor job of communicating it to her up until this point.

My woman wouldn't dream of spending time with other men because she knows for a fact that there are other women who would love to spend time with me. If you don't have a woman like this in your life its your fault for settling for less. I guess some guys have to take what they can get though (or feel like they do anyway).

 

[Single4Life]

The relationship is over, IMO.

This woman is not worth being with. Just see her as a giant vagina to have sex with from now on, because that's all it is.

She crossed a LOT of boundaries here :

1) No worthwhile woman would EVER even contemplate that. Straight up say no to the guy.

but she crossed that one.

2)Nor would she WANT to do it.

She wants to do it. Crossed another one.

3) Now here's the big one. She straight up asked you. Haha. NO qualms about it.


Cut ties or just see her as sex. She's not good for you.

 

[aura]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, so I'm glad someone else said it first.

I'd say approx. 1/2 of all girls in relationships or who are married will cheat at some point. I don't think that percentage is going down either.

A relationship is basically meaningless these days.

The relationship is over, IMO.

This woman is not worth being with. Just see her as a giant vagina to have sex with from now on, because that's all it is.

She crossed a LOT of boundaries here :

1) No worthwhile woman would EVER even contemplate that. Straight up say no to the guy.

but she crossed that one.

2)Nor would she WANT to do it.

She wants to do it. Crossed another one.

3) Now here's the big one. She straight up asked you. Haha. NO qualms about it.


Cut ties or just see her as sex. She's not good for you.

 

[f283000]

However, I don't want to come off as insecure or jealous. I simply said, you can do what you want, but this guy seems a little too eager to meet up with you.

The problem you have is the problem a lot of guys have when starting out.

They think that acting "indifferent" means just letting a woman run wild!

You have check women. In fact a guy that puts them in check is a huge turn on for women.

What your gf did was disrespecting your manhood. She might as well have spat on your face! I mean seriously it's a total lack of respect for your manhood for her to ask you if she can spend time with another guy. If she respects you as a man, as a boyfriend, as a leader, as a lover, she wouldn't do that.

 

[Gdupm6]

Exactly.

My value is greater than hers because I can replace her easier than she can replace me. I'm rare and hard to obtain because I am willing to go against the grain and differentiate myself through my actions from the other men that want to sleep with her (and the men I will compete against for other women should I need to).

Once again, the relationship is HER REWARD. I made her earn it. Me agreeing to restrict myself to one vagina when I have the ability to access many is a BIG DAMN DEAL and she must appreciate and respect it as such.

If you guys aren't coming from that frame, it really doesn't matter if she decides to spend time with her guy friends or not because at the end of the day there is nothing you can do because her value is higher than yours and you can't easily replace her and you are reluctant to start this process anew with other women. She is disrespecting you, and you are disrespecting yourself because you aren't willing to work to make yourself into the guy who can get a bunch of vaginas and not just this particular vagina.

I personally don't care if people on a message board consider my actions "tit for tat." I don't live my life based on how it will play on a message board. Me seeing other girls and spending less time with her is her punishment for disrespecting me in this fashion. And its only the first salvo. If she persists in this unacceptable behavior, we won't be in an exclusive relationship for very long.

Her seeing other guys is unacceptable because I say so. It's not a standard that needs to be justified to others. I'm the leader and boss of the relationship and I determine what I will or won't tolerate. I don't need to have discussions on message boards to find out if its okay to set a standard for myself and my relationship and demand that she comply by returning the favor when she suddenly decides that I should be willing to share my access to her time and attention with other men. If she doesn't know ahead of time that I will react with "tit for tat" then I've done a poor job of communicating it to her up until this point.

My woman wouldn't dream of spending time with other men because she knows for a fact that there are other women who would love to spend time with me. If you don't have a woman like this in your life its your fault for settling for less. I guess some guys have to take what they can get though (or feel like they do anyway).

 

[zekko]

The problem you have is the problem a lot of guys have when starting out.

They think that acting "indifferent" means just letting a woman run wild!

You have check women. In fact a guy that puts them in check is a huge turn on for women.

There seems to be two schools of thought here.
Either you straight up let them know you're not okay with it, or you start hanging with other girls to give her the message.

I don't like playing games so I prefer the direct route. I would just tell her I'm not okay with it. Then if she does it anyway, she's gone, unworthy.

What your gf did was disrespecting your manhood. She might as well have spat on your face! I mean seriously it's a total lack of respect for your manhood for her to ask you if she can spend time with another guy. If she respects you as a man, as a boyfriend, as a leader, as a lover, she wouldn't do that.

Again though, look at iqqi. She thinks there is nothing disrespectful with having her own male friends to hang out with. She "feels badly" for people who think otherwise. To her, it's the mature, adult way to be.

This topic has come up a lot here. There used to be a lot more guys who said there was nothing wrong with it. They thought they were so "alpha" and all other guys were so "AFC" that they didn't have to worry about them. They thought it was "insecure" to object to a girl hanging out with male friends.

For some reason, those guys have thinned out a lot. I think once they saw that there were other guys who objected to it, they realized it was okay to think that way. Before, I think they were influenced by female accusations that it was "insecure, possessive, and controlling" to have a problem with them having male friends.

Girls want these guys to fawn over them even if they aren't screwing because they want that attention - it's like crack to them.

I'd say approx. 1/2 of all girls in relationships or who are married will cheat at some point

That's almost the exact same thing I posted a few days ago. I'm betting most of the cheaters fall into this "I insist on having male friends" category.

 

[aura]

Many girls, perhaps the majority, are like the girl in OP; they just don't care if the guy knows. They will openly cheat. They will cheat on him in front of his face.

There are girls who legitimately do not cheat, but they are starting to become a minority.

 

[Aaron B]

Again though, look at iqqi. She thinks

when you communicate with a woman on a message board, you are accessing her logic

we all know that when it comes to dating and relationships, women act primarily based on their emotions

therefore, what a poster who claims to be a woman says she would do or says she thinks is almost completely irrelevant

I have personally observed numerous cases of women saying one thing and then doing another. Hell, I've observed a lot of guys doing that as well.

You seem smart, so I wonder why this basic notion has escaped your attention

 

[zekko]

what a poster who claims to be a woman says she would do or says she thinks is almost completely irrelevant

I was just using iqqi as an example. Her point of view is fairly common among women. I know a good many women who are in relationships and maintain numerous male friends. Their boyfriends/husbands are just fine with it. That's their right, but I think they're asking for trouble.