women are not YOUR protector

[ketostix]

men have many unreasonable expectations of women also though. we expect them to ride our kawks every night even if they aren't in the mood. we expect them to look their best and put in 100 times more effort into that than we ever would put into our own appearance (not many guys are prepared to spend an hour getting ready in the morning), etc.

I don't know, I would expect the woman to have a compatible sex drive at least not one that I couldn't keep up with. As far as them looking good, I think most women do this for themselves. I'd like for a woman to look as least as good as me without makeup on.

But there's no way of getting around it. when you say "protector" you're really saying provider. It's kind of sad that women compete against us as providers in the workplace. also women are capable of being a nurturer, that's suppose to be their nature, to be nurturing and loyal. Bottom line is, most women are wanting to only enter and remain in relationships that are totally biased in their favor. They don't really care about the man their with. They're only exploiting.

 

[iqqi]

Only a weak man would seek or see a woman as a protector!!! If a man is not doing his naturally genetic designed duty to be a protector- the woman, as a last resort, will take the helm!! In the equation of two, she is the only one left - she doesn't do it by choice, but because of survival!!

A+

And a woman WILL take the helm. For survival of the relationship, if nothing else!

 

[Miletus]

Some scientific confirmation

Hello.

This is a great thread! Lots of insight.

I have been a lurker on and off on this site since 2002. Time to make a very small contribution.

women are naturally repelled by men who are in need of a 'mother'.

this is why so many men get dumped when they need their woman the most. and why men come to the conclusion that women are cold hearted b*tches.

unfortunately, when you need a woman the most, is also the time when she is most likely to leave you.

Joekerr's original thought about women not being the protector is confirmed by some interesting research last year from the University of Umea, Sweden:
Women often divorce their men when the men lose their job. Men does not divorce their women when their women loose their jobs.
The scientific paper was about Swedish people born in 1973, so the values of the people involved should be rather contemporary. Also, in Sweden most women are working - and thus are less financially dependent on their men than in many other countries. So the wife could be a breadwinner for her husband, much the same as the husband is for the unemployed wife.
Still, the likeliness of a women divorcing her husband increased with every day of his unemployment...
The opposite was true for women - for every day of a woman's unemployment, she was less likely to become divorced...

the world is a cruel cruel place to weak men. which is why i post here, with the hope that a few of them will read some of this and realize that all they have to do is believe in themselves just a little bit and their lives will improve leaps and bounds.

So true!

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Women's primary drive is for security. This security need can take many forms (emotional, financial, familial, etc.) but it is at the top of a woman's list of needs. This is why commitment is so stressed in feminization and why so many social contrivances revolve around providing for a woman's security need and relief from anxieties about insecurity. A Man's long term value can be estimated in his ability to provide/provision for her security and dependably share in parental investment. In our socio-evolutionary past this provisioning capacity was identifiable in a man's physical prowess as well as proficiency in creative problem solving. As a result certain traits being expressed came to imply high breeding value and associated with the masculine as desirable.

Today things are more complex, but that feminine security need is still present, both physiologically and psychologically. Women can provide for their own physical security now without male provisioning, however there is still that inherent need for the emotional and familial security that requires the masculine. In parental investment (child rearing) there is a need for both genders to express themselves and this requires a definite masculine role to provide for a balanced understanding of gender. When a man is unable or unwilling to provide this, she will take matters into her own hands to meet this security need. The most common way this manifests is in a woman stepping into the primary masculine role. She becomes the dominant and he the submissive. This then becomes a gender reversal - she assumes the masculine and he assumes the feminine.

Needless to say, over the course of a few generations this is becomes the root of a lot of gender confusion, however, the innate biology and psychology of gender will always conflict with attempts to change it sociologically. Even the most effeminate male still has 17 time the testosterone a woman has in her body, and the most dominant female still produces oxytocin and estrogen in higher volumes. Our biology influences our emotional states, our psychologies and our behaviors. We're not slaves to them (as evidenced by the dominant woman and submissive male), but our chemistry exerts an undeniable influence on us, even when it's subconscious.

There are strong and weak men and and women everywhere, it's just how we chose to define that strength and how it fits into our gender understanding that's at issue. The house-husband and the professional woman seem to be out of some kind of natural balance. They may in fact be two very "strong" individuals, but as human beings (like most higher order animals) we make unconscious comparisons that influence our perceptions. Their situation seems fundamentally out of balance. Even in homosexual arrangements there is always a dominant and a submissive partner, this is why it seems out of balance to heterosexuals.

There are those who seek power by changing the game - by lowering the basketball hoops in order to better shoot a basket - but in 'leveling the playing field' they only succeed in changing the nature of the competition to better suit their individual abilities, neither improving the game nor themselves.

Then there are those who accept the game for what it is, they understand it and they master it (or at least attempt to do so). They understand the need for adversity and the benefits it gives them when they reach the next level of mastering the game - not only in technique, but from the confidence this genuinely and verifiably confers.

There will NEVER be an egalitarian equality among the sexes - our biologies, psychologies and how they evolved wont allow it. Hardline feminists think this equality is a desirable goal, but as they're beginning to find out now as society decays into this increasingly more feminized redefinition of masculinity it becomes obvious that denying our differences denies us the opportunity to grow and improve. Egalitarian equality denies us the opportunity to make full use of our strengths, while making accommodations for other's weaknesses. Egalitarian equality is not empowering, it's limiting, it makes us less diverse and more homogenized. Androgeny isn't a goal.

 

[Mr. Me]

All these examples show that when the man continually abandons the masculine quality he's to bring to a relationship or continually acts out the "feminine" qualities, it creates an imbalance that the woman then steps in to fill by magnifying her masculine traits. For a moment, it may be fine, as life has it's moments, but if it goes on, it disturbs the balance of the male-female dynamics needed in the relationship. In effect she "becomes her own man". That is not comfortable for her, as she is the one by nature more about seeking support and validation. To have her act more masculine, making decisions, leading, supporting, et al, is having her surrender her femininity and not an equation for a successful man/woman relationship. That is more akin to a neutral type of friendship than a male/female love bond.

 

[jophil28]

Curiously, most women will agonize endlessly with a sister or a girlfriend who is in the tiniest distress.IF the cat chews a fur ball the call goes out to Emotional 911 .. A woman will rush to the side of a "sister" and plunge into the center of her problem for hours or days or longer if necessessary. The dilemma is dissected in minute detail, endless 'feelings' are displayed and expressed and ,because women are incompetent problem solvers, it usually follows that this dilemma drags on and on . Endless phone consultations and liunchtime commisserations. Endless expressions of sympathy and support.
If this is a "guy problem" ,his character is blackened over and over and his actions are scrutinized in the tiniest detail to reveal his wrongdoings.

Women discuss every possible way of just talking about the problem and NOT taking action and then do this all again, day after day after day....

However if the man in their life has a real problem their behavior is vastly different as discussed in this thread...

 

[penkitten]

they do NOT know how to be a protector, and especially do not know how to do so with a man.
.

i agree with your entire post joekerr, it was wonderful and should be put in the bible under a sub category on self growth.
this sentence i quoted it my favorite and because it is something that alot of people forget to recognize.

 

[reset]

Just talking with a chick at work about Heath Ledger. I'm sure it had something to do with his separation. She said "well women just know how to break hearts, but some men are really WEAK".

That's what you get. Girls have all the permission in society to feel emotion. Men don't get that option. We just suck it up. And since we're all human, it seems like a raw deal for the men.

 

[Mr. Me]

Girls have all the permission in society to feel emotion. Men don't get that option. We just suck it up.

Men are permitted to feel emotions, but we're more expected to also handle them and not use them as an excuse to kill ourselves or others. And killing yourself over losing a woman is about extreme lack of self-control, as it also is when a jilted man kills his ex. It's not about being able to feel emotions, your friend is right; it's about weakness.

 

[reset]

yeah. Self control.

 

[penkitten]

*this will be deleted soon, I know I'm violating again, but I want to ask*

Where's is the line then from asking her to be the protector and savior and depending on her for some help? Surely there been many couples that have supported each other backs, I guess that can be said of just relying on each other rather than outright protection (or maybe that line should never be that far out). What do you think the line is?
difference


Edit: I'm gonna post again and futher push my luck, but this all of a suddent reminds me of the Book of Job, the king of men being down, after losing his health, wealth, and happiness, what did his wife say? "Go curse God and die." Ok, doesn't go anywhere in this discussion, but somehow this reminds me of that.
While I'm typing this, can't a man expect to have some of his back cover, perhaps not forever, but is it reasonable if he is trying all he can to get back up that he can expect her to be supportive? Saying that reminds me of that 60 years old football player story and his wife....


Edit again: I just got another idea to my head, this might actually merit a post or a PM, but I'll not do that for now. Thinking about the "woman behind him" thing, I remember of an old thought of "those who stand in front of me, behind me, and beside me." Those who stands in front of me will fall one by one, stand beside me and we will fight and take them down one by one, and behind me will support me and I will protect them. Perhaps that the difference between support and protect. If that true, we can count on support, but protect is unfair (than again, is it unfair for the man to pretty much unconditionally support/protect her while she won't do the same?)

as we all know people test each other out in relationships all the time, and this is something that must be tested during a dating relationship before you marry a gal.
think of the things you want to do in life, (further education, change jobs/careers, rebuild a old junkie car, travel or move, etc...)
then you test the waters... "what would you think if i was working full time and going to school full time at the same time? would you support the idea of that?"
if she opposes the idea of something you plan to do, without consideration of your feelings, your hard worked efforts to make it to this point, what future it will hold... you know that she will never have your back.
she may say she does, but she only has her own back.

however, if she says that it is wonderful that you know what you want to do and tells you that the two of you will be able to work out all the details , even if she is not 100% sure how... then she not only has your back, but is walking beside you and thinks of the future of the two of you in the long term sense and knows that whether it is your education, job or hobby, that fulfillment to you will also be fulfillment to her.

 

[penkitten]

Women will ALWAYS act in THEIR own immediate interests.
It is tue that a woman will attempt some assistance to her man who is in a crisis. BUT it is also true that women never do ALL that they are capable of. My experience is that women tire of being the protector VERY quickly and then act as if the guys' problem is a major inconvenience.

i think doing what i need to for my family (my husband and my children ) is in my immediate interest. i not only attempt to assist my husband during crisis's, but i offer myself 100%, crisis or not.
i had to be protector of the family (children) for so long while i was divorced and single, that i can say it is such a relief that i do not have to do it 100% of the time anymore. on one hand, it is very hard to let go completely and let someone else be the protector (after so long of doing it ) and on the other hand, i am so glad that there is someone to be my protector.
so he protects me when needed, i protect him when possible and we both protect the children.

 

[jophil28]

i think doing what i need to for my family (my husband and my children ) is in my immediate interest. i not only attempt to assist my husband during crisis's, but i offer myself 100%, crisis or not.
i had to be protector of the family (children) for so long while i was divorced and single, that i can say it is such a relief that i do not have to do it 100% of the time anymore. on one hand, it is very hard to let go completely and let someone else be the protector (after so long of doing it ) and on the other hand, i am so glad that there is someone to be my protector.
so he protects me when needed, i protect him when possible and we both protect the children.

Ahhh ! PenKitty, you are a diamond in a dogpile..

 

[guru1000]

A GOOD WOMAN will be supportive to her man.

I have had some good women, unfortunately have never married them. I also have seen women take off the minute things were tough.

You cannot generalize and say "All women are the same and will not stand by the Man through tough times."

There is good and bad in everybody.

Just be more selective and put her though the tests.

It is true, women are not raised and are not genetically tailored to be the Protector. However when push comes to shove, a GOOD woman will be your rock.

Napolean Hill says "Every great man in history had a great woman behind him".

To take the stance "I am all alone and cannot rely on my wife" is an unhealthy way of thinking.

The truth of the matter is women are NOT fickle, weak creatures. Don't wear a black eye for your past relationships.

As you think, you shall become. Any thinking you uphold as the truth will become your reality. So think positive.

 

[iqqi]

A GOOD WOMAN will be supportive to her man.

I have had some good women, unfortunately have never married them. I also have seen women take off the minute things were tough.

You cannot generalize and say "All women are the same and will not stand by the Man through tough times."

There is good and bad in everybody.

Just be more selective and put her though the tests.

It is true, women are not raised and are not genetically tailored to be the Protector. However when push comes to shove, a GOOD woman will be your rock.

Napolean Hill says "Every great man in history had a great woman behind him".

To take the stance "I am all alone and cannot rely on my wife" is an unhealthy way of thinking.

The truth of the matter is women are NOT fickle, weak creatures. Don't wear a black eye for your past relationships.

As you think, you shall become. Any thinking you uphold as the truth will become your reality. So think positive.

Amen.

 

[KarmaSutra]

A GOOD WOMAN will be supportive to her man.

I have had some good women, unfortunately have never married them. I also have seen women take off the minute things were tough.

You cannot generalize and say "All women are the same and will not stand by the Man through tough times."

There is good and bad in everybody.

Just be more selective and put her though the tests.

It is true, women are not raised and are not genetically tailored to be the Protector. However when push comes to shove, a GOOD woman will be your rock.

Napolean Hill says "Every great man in history had a great woman behind him".

To take the stance "I am all alone and cannot rely on my wife" is an unhealthy way of thinking.

The truth of the matter is women are NOT fickle, weak creatures. Don't wear a black eye for your past relationships.

As you think, you shall become. Any thinking you uphold as the truth will become your reality. So think positive.

When you see a quality post it's proper to salute it.

I salute this post brother Guru.

Carry on soldier.

 

[joekerr31]

A GOOD WOMAN will be supportive to her man.

I have had some good women, unfortunately have never married them. I also have seen women take off the minute things were tough.

You cannot generalize and say "All women are the same and will not stand by the Man through tough times."

There is good and bad in everybody.

Just be more selective and put her though the tests.

It is true, women are not raised and are not genetically tailored to be the Protector. However when push comes to shove, a GOOD woman will be your rock.

Napolean Hill says "Every great man in history had a great woman behind him".

To take the stance "I am all alone and cannot rely on my wife" is an unhealthy way of thinking.

The truth of the matter is women are NOT fickle, weak creatures. Don't wear a black eye for your past relationships.

As you think, you shall become. Any thinking you uphold as the truth will become your reality. So think positive.

your mad man mad!

yes a woman will stand by you under a lot of circumstances. heck, if you got run over and lost your legs, odds are, if your woman was truly in love with you, she will stand by you. she'll love you with legs or without legs.

BUT.

its a WHOLE different ballgame if you have mental issues. if you sink into a depression. if you develop anxiety and lose your job. etc.

women will stand by you in a lot of situations so long as you

1) are able to hold a job
2) are able to still be the stoic problem solver / protector

if you can't do those two things, for whatever the reason, 99% of women will leave (its a question of when, not if).

whereas the same cannot be said of men. yes, lots of men would leave. but at least 50% of them stand by their woman no matter how messed up she gets.

all i'm saying is that when it comes to shouldering life's troubles, if you are depending on your woman to get through them or to make you feel better, if she is that primary source of strength and support, you are f*cked.

she cannot be your protector. it almost always ends in disaster.

the evidence supporting this is so absurdly huge that in my view its almost unarguable.

 

[iqqi]

...if you can't do those two things, for whatever the reason, 99% of women will leave (its a question of when, not if).

whereas the same cannot be said of men. yes, lots of men would leave. but at least 50% of them stand by their woman no matter how messed up she gets.

the evidence supporting this is so absurdly huge that in my view its almost unarguable.

I knew this was one of those 9 out of 10, percentage out ur azz posts.

WHERE is that evidence?

If a chick stays with you when you lose both legs, she is going to stick with you through a bout with depression.

 

[joekerr31]

I knew this was one of those 9 out of 10, percentage out ur azz posts.

WHERE is that evidence?

If a chick stays with you when you lose both legs, she is going to stick with you through a bout with depression.

no she won't. unless of course she met you when you had depression and doesn't mind the fact.

or unless she herself has no options.

but you take any attractive woman and if her man goes south on her with depression, anxiety, AFCdom, etc. - she will be out the door within a year.

i'm flabberghasted that you guys think otherwise.

i dont think this means women are mean, or bad, or any of that. its just a reaction they have. they are looking for a protector, NOT for a man who needs protecting.

you guys can believe otherwise but its totally against what goes on in the real world.

she might want to be there. she might agonize over leaving. she might be the nicest kindest person in the world. but if her man falls apart and she ends up having to be the one who be the leader - its only a matter of time until she leaves.

i'll say it again. when it comes to your 'rock' it can be a priest, a psychologist, friends, an ideology, a hobby, a thousand different things - but if its your woman you are in deep trouble eventually.

women RUN from men with problems. no woman wants to go out with some guy who is depressed. but sometimes a guy has his sh*t together, then only later into the marriage gets depressed, and guess what, after dealing with it for a few months she starts thinking 'gawd, why am i putting myself through this? I always dreamed of a man who would lead us in life, not some guy who can't cope with life."

look, women are fantastic, but they are seeking providers / protectors. a man who fails to be this, much less actually asks requires his woman to be this, is doomed.

its the same as a woman who gains 30 pounds and stops wanting sex. an attractive man who gets attention from women will most likely leave her after a given amount of time.

i think people are good. i think women are good and men are good. but when it comes to relationships, things get tricky and there are demands and behaviors that must be meet in order for a two human beings to make a go of it in the long run.

expecting your woman to be the protector is not one of them.

 

[iqqi]

no she won't. unless of course she met you when you had depression and doesn't mind the fact.

or unless she herself has no options.

but you take any attractive woman and if her man goes south on her with depression, anxiety, AFCdom, etc. - she will be out the door within a year.

i'm flabberghasted that you guys think otherwise.

Now you aren't really talking "down and out", and you are talking a real issue not being dealt with (if its going on for a year+).

And you are right, many people WILL leave you, if you aren't helping yourself. That goes for both genders.